Lag may be a problem

[Anther]

I'll do that sometimes, but it's better to go up against people that are at your skill level or above it and know that you're going up against such people. Anyway, since it looks like the online mode is going to have random matches, I'll get Wii codes from people that I know are good so I can play against them.

Cept in tourneys you don't always know your opponents relative skill =o. Especially online ones XD.

 

[Takeshi245]

Cept in tourneys you don't always know your opponents relative skill =o. Especially online ones XD.

I'm hoping to go up against people that I know are better than me because they have experience in tournaments. That's why I'm planning to get their Wii codes. Random matches against other people from time to time wouldn't hurt, anyways.

 

[PitIcarus]

It is this issue right here that will lead to many disappointments this winter. Too many people who do not understand the technical side of the Internet believe that we will enter this golden era where we can challenge anyone on Smashboards to a match in Brawl. They also believe the tournament scene will die down as everyone converts to purely online tournaments. The fact remains that connections will be less than desirable, people will complain about lag being the reason they lost, and good players will still be the ones who travel to tournaments. I apologize for seeming overly pessimistic, and yes, there will be groups of smashers around who have good connections allowing them to play each other.

Luckily 1mb < broadband is becoming commonplace everywhere in the u.s. and will continue to grow. Like how everyone I know around here has 5+mbps internet. But ya it is inevitable. Same thing happened with Strikers and has with everyone online game. People get so hyped about something and fail to even find out whether or not there connection will allow them to play suitably.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I mean, why doesn't MLG just sit back and have the Halo 2 players go at it online?

Besides, I think most people enjoy the in-person social atmosphere.

 

[PitIcarus]

I mean, why doesn't MLG just sit back and have the Halo 2 players go at it online?

Besides, I think most people enjoy the in-person social atmosphere.

lol.

But seriously, I highly doubt this will be a problem. I have yet to have any lag problems with strikers.

Just don't play people far far away from you with poor connections because then it will lag.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Just don't play people far far away from you with poor connections because then it will lag.

When the day comes where I have a ridiculously fast connection, I will get to it. XD

 

[PitIcarus]

When the day comes where I have a ridiculously fast connection, I will get to it. XD

At least Nintendo was smart enough to include the whole star rating connection quality message so you will at least know beforehand if you will have a lagfest when playing someone.

 

[flicker]

I have like 5/2mbps right now, so I'm hoping that'll work well. Which it should.

But even if it does we're still switching to Verizon's 15/5mbps which is 10 dollars cheaper than what we have now XD

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Once the world converts to pure fiber optics with IPv6, Brawl will be lag-free.

 

[PitIcarus]

Once the world converts to pure fiber optics with IPv6, Brawl will be lag-free.

The big towns around here actually passed city motions to have fiber ran to every house.

 

[Takeshi245]

You guys seem to know more about internet speed than I do. If you have 100mbps, how good is that?

 

[Anther]

100 megabytes can transfer per second

 

[Doggalina]

Keep in mind that, not only his Strikers Nintendo's first Wii online action game (PBR is just a turn-based RPG), but Strikers slows down (i.e. 'lags') in offline play too. And if you can't stand Brawl lag online, don't use it.

 

[Takeshi245]

100 megabytes can transfer per second

Is it relatively fast?

 

[PitIcarus]

Is it relatively fast?

100mbps is your NETWORK connection. Meaning the transfer rate for data across your network.

Has nothing to do with your WAN(Internet) connection speed.

 

[Gryffin]

I honestly don't think Brawl will be online.
If it is, they will probably have limitations.
Like one-vs-one only, certain items aloud, no final smash, only certain levels, reduced graphical detail, etc. The reason is lag. Online just cant take, especially the Wii console playing online.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Keep in mind that you need a smooth connection more so than a fast connection. Technically, receiving 500 MB every 2 seconds averages to 250 MB per second (a very good speed), but Brawl needs 60 frames updated within every single second. So, while a connection may be amazing for downloading large files, it may not be the best for a high paced game like Brawl because receiving hunks of data only every 2 seconds (in accordance with my example) simply would not cut it: we all know very well that much can happen in 2 seconds in this game.

 

[PitIcarus]

I honestly don't think Brawl will be online.
If it is, they will probably have limitations.
Like one-vs-one only, certain items aloud, no final smash, only certain levels, reduced graphical detail, etc. The reason is lag. Online just cant take, especially the Wii console playing online.

Why do so many people think a brawl won't work online?

And what does the wii console have to do with anything?

Ok pretty much your entire post is incorrect and null.

 

[Fastest]

100 megabytes can transfer per second

100 MEGABITS can transfer per second.

mb(Mb) = megaBIT
mB(MB) = megaByte

Network speeds are typically rated in megabits.

 

[Anther]

my bad =0.

But remember, no internet strategy is going to send data every frame the game's running, as that'll only serve to make things even more laggy.

But I'm sure if its online it'll have a fine system in place.

 

[PitIcarus]

People have to realize that online gaming has been going on for nearly a decade with the masses.

It's not like some new crazy think that hasn't been tested.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

People have to realize that online gaming has been going on for nearly a decade with the masses.

It's not like some new crazy think that hasn't been tested.

You are right, but most online games today are played at a much lower pace than that of a smash game. They also take advantage of algorithms that 'guess' the opponent's position based on recent activity when data packets are lost and whatnot. You can get away with that in an RPG. As for FPS and other high-paced games, they still are nowhere near as delicate as Brawl. In a FPS, if there is lag, the game can still catch up, notice that you were shot a couple seconds ago, and adjust your hit points accordingly. In Brawl, hits that occurred a second or two ago have must more serious consequences. Had that hit connected, you would be flying across the stage right now. It is much more difficult to anticipate.

 

[Anther]

Check out RTS's Buzz

 

[PitIcarus]

You are right, but most online games today are played at a much lower pace than that of a smash game. They also take advantage of algorithms that 'guess' the opponent's position based on recent activity when data packets are lost and whatnot. You can get away with that in an RPG. As for FPS and other high-paced games, they still are nowhere near as delicate as Brawl. In a FPS, if there is lag, the game can still catch up, notice that you were shot a couple seconds ago, and adjust your hit points accordingly. In Brawl, hits that occurred a second or two ago have must more serious consequences. Had that hit connected, you would be flying across the stage right now. It is much more difficult to anticipate.

I understand where you are coming from but it really works no different than any of the other online fighters/shooters/racing games. And I understand perfectly how packets are transmitted, having taking TCP/IP for Networking in college.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

OK, neither of you read my post very closely.

 

[PitIcarus]

OK, neither of you read my post very closely.

I actually read through it twice before posting. It just really doesn't make any difference. It would work the same way a lot of online games do when they lag. It will appear to one person that they hit you at a certain point in time, but it wouldn't have actually done any damage to the person because on there game they moved prior.

I get what you are saying. But that is only a problem for people with poor connections. UDP can handle that just fine.

 

[Anther]

I'm sitting as close as I need to sit to the computer screen x_X.
I didn't say anything wrong =|.

 

[PitIcarus]

I'm sitting as close as I need to sit to the computer screen x_X.
I didn't say anything wrong =|.

Well your RTS comment was out of place. Because they work in a completely different fashion.

 

[Anther]

Not entirely true in an online perspective. Ideally in a fighting game, you'd want every action to transfer accurately to your opponents system. Its the same for RTS's. if the game only sends out 4 packets of information a second containing every action the player's have done, and as long as they're received at least every 15 frames, the game can be played with nothing weird happening on screen from player to player except for the fact that your character moves 15 frames after you input an action... which is about what happens with HD tvs and Smash x_X.

Course people aren't going to agree that that's ideal, as they might prefer their own character moves 1 frame after their input while things aren't uniform to parties involved in playing the game... in which case you're hoping a lil more that the way things look on your screen sync well enough to win you the game(or some other set of words that is more along the line of hoping your attack hits at that moment)... but that's what you were talking against anyway.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

So, I guess the point you are making is that it will work, and I agree. I was not implying that it is a hopeless endeavor. My point is just that it will be a fun toy, not a tournament-worthy function like it can be for RTS games and whatnot. It will not be this fabulous "oh wow, it's like we are in the same room" type experience. >_<

 

[PitIcarus]

Not entirely true in an online perspective. Ideally in a fighting game, you'd want every action to transfer accurately to your opponents system. Its the same for RTS's. if the game only sends out 4 packets of information a second containing every action the player's have done, and as long as they're received at least every 15 frames, the game can be played with nothing weird happening on screen from player to player except for the fact that your character moves 15 frames after you input an action... which is about what happens with HD tvs and Smash x_X.

Course people aren't going to agree that that's ideal, as they might prefer their own character moves 1 frame after their input while things aren't uniform to parties involved in playing the game... in which case you're hoping a lil more that the way things look on your screen sync well enough to win you the game(or some other set of words that is more along the line of hoping your attack hits at that moment)... but that's what you were talking against anyway.

RTS require a much lower framerate to function. Though many reach high points, it isn't actually required for it to work properly. You could just turn down the bursts and other effects, the data was still transfered the same.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

We should all just go back to playing text-based MUDs. That solves the lag issue.

 

[PitIcarus]

We should all just go back to playing text-based MUDs. That solves the lag issue.

I remember playing some text based role playing game back in like 1992. I know you weren't saying it wasn't possible. I was just elaborating that the Tournament issues would be solely dependent on people an the quality of there connection, and not that it was a useless endeavor for the type of game.

 

[Kentalish]

u guys are judging online from the second online wii game brawl is coming out 5 months from now i think by that time nintendo will have updated the internet so that the nintendo wifi wont be overloaded(thats wwhats causing lag).... people say it will be fixed in a few weeks but yea on strikers i lost 6 wonm 4.... 2 of em was from my bro getting mad at me and reseting wii... and 2 were from hella lag with the guy keeping on doing maga strikes and i cant do ****

 

[PitIcarus]

u guys are judging online from the second online wii game brawl is coming out 5 months from now i think by that time nintendo will have updated the internet so that the nintendo wifi wont be overloaded(thats wwhats causing lag).... people say it will be fixed in a few weeks but yea on strikers i lost 6 wonm 4.... 2 of em was from my bro getting mad at me and reseting wii... and 2 were from hella lag with the guy keeping on doing maga strikes and i cant do ****

Come again? I was actually talking about how excellent the wifi worked with Mario Strikers.

Don't blame the game on your slow connection.

 

[Lucina Clash]

That all depends on connection of you and the person.

 

[Kentalish]

nononono i love strikers.. its not the game or connection... if anyone is getting the error code 98020 like i did mostly yesterday it meens the nintendo internet is overloaded thats whats causing lag for some people

 

[TomH]

At my apartment, i have the fastest possible connection available to me (15 MB D/L i believe) because i have 3 others living with me. I have been playing all day, and no one else has been home, and i get lag during appx 15-20% of the matches. The strange thing is that for about the first 10-15 people ive played against, I didnt see a single person with lag, and now im seeing about one in every 5 will lag me so bad that i lose to bad people, or sometimes even win against good people... although normally good poeple dont have bad internet :-P

waiting 10-15 seconds before accepting the match is a good idea.

It is clear that this is not like Counter Strike. Each person has their own character screen, whereas with this, the character screen is the same, so if 1 person lags, then the other person lags. In CS, even if your computer has perfect internet connection, you will still see other people lagging, even if you arent lagging.

PLEASE, if you have a bad internet, dont play brawl online, dont play Strikers online. it sucks for those of us who arent the problem.

 

[PitIcarus]

nononono i love strikers.. its not the game or connection... if anyone is getting the error code 98020 like i did mostly yesterday it meens the nintendo internet is overloaded thats whats causing lag for some people

I'm pretty sure the connection is hosted by either of the two in the match. So it shouldn't have anything to do with Nintendo. The matchup and ranking system should be the only thing affected.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

VW, fly to Idaho so I can smash you without lag. Have you met my friend Coaxial Cable? He lives in Cedar Rapids. ^_^