KOS-MOS Returning to Battle: DLC Season 2.

[ES. Dinah]

which palletes are the ones bolded?

also i was thinking - if KOS-MOS does make it, what if she were the very final one? last reveals are generally not very hype to the masses (but would be for me) and maybe it'd be one last thank you to Namco.

of course she's still got Lloyd to compete with, but with how they've been spacing out the costumes, maybe they're saving Lloyd's costume for her specifically.

Sorry... I think only colour #8 is the Xenosaga reference and I explained it already with the Zohar and proto omega similarities but I dunno it's 100% speculation but they do fit. The thing is if Sakurai clearly referenced Xenogears as I already pointed out I just cant see how he didn't play Xenosaga (or monolith designed the alts so of course)

And while there's super doubt she makes it now I do think if her reveal was coming it would be the last one because that would be the true sendoff to Namco helping with the game. And Monolith Soft had a huge part in this character pack as I already pointed out so i'm praying there's a chance Namco and Monolith/Nintendo agreed to it. And honestly Lloyd is the last hope for a namco wave. No KOS-MOS mii costume is just suspicious to me considering she's iconic to namco and Monolith and Pyra and Mythra's pack would have had the costume. So I'm thinking Lloyd has to return with a Namco character but I also feel confident in a Zelda character to end it now. I mean come on they have 3 HD ports coming and those were all in development during the fighter pass 2 window or even before... then you have BOTW2 being the huge Nintendo game at the end of the year presumably.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I still believe the Lloyd Mii costume will return with a Bandai-Namco rep either with a playable Lloyd, Yuri, KOS-MOS or Nightmare. I can't imagine this game ending without a single Namco newcomer.

 

[Luty]

As far as I see it, a Bandai Namco representative does have a high chance since Lloyd's Mii outfit was an obvious choice for Pyra/Mythra. Unless there is another JRPG swordfighter coming up, I doubt that BN will be left out. I am not sure how all of the licensing works, however. Capcom could have bought the slot for Mii costumes in this wave, leaving Lloyd's outfit to be skipped.

I believe Lloyd's Mii costume will return, too. Like, they were maybe able to keep the rights to the costumes very easily and the design process for developing new Mii costumes could be expensive. If they do away with the Lloyd Mii costume, they could be losing money on that endeavor. I do not know the ins and outs of the industry and this game particular, but I kinda feel like the Lloyd Mii costume is coming back just like all of the other costumes already have. Not to say there is not a chance for Lloyd getting in as a playable character, though.

There is no guarantee for a BN representative either, despite what I want to believe. There are a lot of characters from the Bandai, Namco and Bandai Namco collective that I would eagerly love to play as in the game. It's great to play as Pac-man(though I wish there was a Ms. Pacman alt), and I feel like they are the most iconic Namco representative. Anything from Bandai is sorely missing, though. As much sense as it would make to see another BN representative in the game, I am rather pessimistic about it happening.

As far as KOS-MOS goes, I still think she is a great fit for Ultimate despite Mythra/Pyra making it in for Monolith Soft/Xeno-series' sake. I just do not believe she would get in with Fighter Pass 2. If she is to arrive, Ultimate would require more DLC. If Sakurai and the team do not announce a Fighter Pass 3 as FP2 ends, I still believe they could turn around and do more DLC characters later, after the pandemic issues pass. I feel like that would be the only reason why they would hold off FP3. There are not many more characters who could make it in before KOS-MOS at this point. Pretty sure Mii costumes are a big disconfirmation considering they cost extra money in the first place.

KOS-MOS has nothing in this game whatsoever. I do not see anything as a Xenosaga representation at all. I think they are doing it on purpose in case they want to add KOS-MOS later. The Weltall colors are a Xenogears reference if anything, and I doubt Square Enix would care to do anything with Xenogears in Smash Bros. at this point. The gold and platinum outfits do not match the Zohar in my opinion. Seems like they just went with awesome colors and people are reaching. Some people even think that the blue outfit represents KOS-MOS, but the color scheme does not match(especially the overuse of red). They do not have blue/periwinkle colored hair, which could be that they do not want KOS-MOS and Mythra to be confusing together in the future if they share the same hair color. So, I think they developed Pyra/Mythra in Ultimate to stay removed from KOS-MOS totally and deliberately.

If this is the ultimate Smash Bros. game, this roster could likely never be done again. They need to continue with this game and not make another Smash Bros. game for while. So many other fighting games are doing long-run DLC. Look at Tekken, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Samurai Showdown, Soul Calibur, etc. They are all still doing DLC years after the games' releases. Three of the ones I mentioned are Bandai Namco games! If they make a new Smash Bros. game, it may go back to a starting 24 character roster anyway, and may not even be called Super Smash Bros. if Sakurai is no longer a part of it's development. So, I see Fighter Pass 3 in the future, even if it is not immediately after FP2.

TLDR; Bandai Namco rep may be likely. Fighter Pass 3 still likely. KOS-MOS is likely in FP3 since Pyra/Mythra did not come with anything remotely KOS-MOS related in my opinion.

Let me know what you all think so we can have a discussion! ^_^

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As far as I see it, a Bandai Namco representative does have a high chance since Lloyd's Mii outfit was an obvious choice for Pyra/Mythra. Unless there is another JRPG swordfighter coming up, I doubt that BN will be left out. I am not sure how all of the licensing works, however. Capcom could have bought the slot for Mii costumes in this wave, leaving Lloyd's outfit to be skipped.

I believe Lloyd's Mii costume will return, too. Like, they were maybe able to keep the rights to the costumes very easily and the design process for developing new Mii costumes could be expensive. If they do away with the Lloyd Mii costume, they could be losing money on that endeavor. I do not know the ins and outs of the industry and this game particular, but I kinda feel like the Lloyd Mii costume is coming back just like all of the other costumes already have. Not to say there is not a chance for Lloyd getting in as a playable character, though.

There is no guarantee for a BN representative either, despite what I want to believe. There are a lot of characters from the Bandai, Namco and Bandai Namco collective that I would eagerly love to play as in the game. It's great to play as Pac-man(though I wish there was a Ms. Pacman alt), and I feel like they are the most iconic Namco representative. Anything from Bandai is sorely missing, though. As much sense as it would make to see another BN representative in the game, I am rather pessimistic about it happening.

As far as KOS-MOS goes, I still think she is a great fit for Ultimate despite Mythra/Pyra making it in for Monolith Soft/Xeno-series' sake. I just do not believe she would get in with Fighter Pass 2. If she is to arrive, Ultimate would require more DLC. If Sakurai and the team do not announce a Fighter Pass 3 as FP2 ends, I still believe they could turn around and do more DLC characters later, after the pandemic issues pass. I feel like that would be the only reason why they would hold off FP3. There are not many more characters who could make it in before KOS-MOS at this point. Pretty sure Mii costumes are a big disconfirmation considering they cost extra money in the first place.

KOS-MOS has nothing in this game whatsoever. I do not see anything as a Xenosaga representation at all. I think they are doing it on purpose in case they want to add KOS-MOS later. The Weltall colors are a Xenogears reference if anything, and I doubt Square Enix would care to do anything with Xenogears in Smash Bros. at this point. The gold and platinum outfits do not match the Zohar in my opinion. Seems like they just went with awesome colors and people are reaching. Some people even think that the blue outfit represents KOS-MOS, but the color scheme does not match(especially the overuse of red). They do not have blue/periwinkle colored hair, which could be that they do not want KOS-MOS and Mythra to be confusing together in the future if they share the same hair color. So, I think they developed Pyra/Mythra in Ultimate to stay removed from KOS-MOS totally and deliberately.

If this is the ultimate Smash Bros. game, this roster could likely never be done again. They need to continue with this game and not make another Smash Bros. game for while. So many other fighting games are doing long-run DLC. Look at Tekken, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Samurai Showdown, Soul Calibur, etc. They are all still doing DLC years after the games' releases. Three of the ones I mentioned are Bandai Namco games! If they make a new Smash Bros. game, it may go back to a starting 24 character roster anyway, and may not even be called Super Smash Bros. if Sakurai is no longer a part of it's development. So, I see Fighter Pass 3 in the future, even if it is not immediately after FP2.

TLDR; Bandai Namco rep may be likely. Fighter Pass 3 still likely. KOS-MOS is likely in FP3 since Pyra/Mythra did not come with anything remotely KOS-MOS related in my opinion.

Let me know what you all think so we can have a discussion! ^_^

Alternatively; Ultimate Deluxe/Encore for a stronger Switch model, likely the Switch Pro/Super Switch. KOS-MOS could be a base game fighter in Encore, maybe with a T-elos echo. Reason being there’s still a hard coded limit of 91 spaces on the css, no echoes stacked, including random, before the game crashes. I think that may be a hardware thing. Plus, a lot of base game minor details not related to the characters themselves, including but not limited to netcode, could be tweaked and I don’t think that can be done with this current make of Ultimate.

 

[AnEasterEgg]

I do wish they'd change how they look at Smash DLC. Given it's one of their biggest games and system sellers, it would make a lot more sense to keep updating it until the Switch is obsolete. With breaks between fighters for the devs to work on other things or take a vacation. It just seems weird how reluctant they are to add more fighters when it's practically printing money.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do wish they'd change how they look at Smash DLC. Given it's one of their biggest games and system sellers, it would make a lot more sense to keep updating it until the Switch is obsolete. With breaks between fighters for the devs to work on other things or take a vacation. It just seems weird how reluctant they are to add more fighters when it's practically printing money.

It’s baffling, especially since Sakurai said working on DLC isn’t as taxing as the base game, but for now, I guess we gotta take his word for it. Maybe they’ll return later, or do a reprise of Ultimate on the beefier Switch with more characters and some QoL fixes like netcode, minor single player content fixes etc

 

[Luty]

Alternatively; Ultimate Deluxe/Encore for a stronger Switch model, likely the Switch Pro/Super Switch. KOS-MOS could be a base game fighter in Encore, maybe with a T-elos echo. Reason being there’s still a hard coded limit of 91 spaces on the css, no echoes stacked, including random, before the game crashes. I think that may be a hardware thing. Plus, a lot of base game minor details not related to the characters themselves, including but not limited to netcode, could be tweaked and I don’t think that can be done with this current make of Ultimate.

True enough, hardware does have it's limits. So, would they have to gut some of the game to add more fighters to it on the current console, then? I do not know much about this computer stuff, but it is not like they are storing each update to the disk, but the console itself, right?

 

[ES. Dinah]

As far as I see it, a Bandai Namco representative does have a high chance since Lloyd's Mii outfit was an obvious choice for Pyra/Mythra. Unless there is another JRPG swordfighter coming up, I doubt that BN will be left out. I am not sure how all of the licensing works, however. Capcom could have bought the slot for Mii costumes in this wave, leaving Lloyd's outfit to be skipped.

I believe Lloyd's Mii costume will return, too. Like, they were maybe able to keep the rights to the costumes very easily and the design process for developing new Mii costumes could be expensive. If they do away with the Lloyd Mii costume, they could be losing money on that endeavor. I do not know the ins and outs of the industry and this game particular, but I kinda feel like the Lloyd Mii costume is coming back just like all of the other costumes already have. Not to say there is not a chance for Lloyd getting in as a playable character, though.

There is no guarantee for a BN representative either, despite what I want to believe. There are a lot of characters from the Bandai, Namco and Bandai Namco collective that I would eagerly love to play as in the game. It's great to play as Pac-man(though I wish there was a Ms. Pacman alt), and I feel like they are the most iconic Namco representative. Anything from Bandai is sorely missing, though. As much sense as it would make to see another BN representative in the game, I am rather pessimistic about it happening.

As far as KOS-MOS goes, I still think she is a great fit for Ultimate despite Mythra/Pyra making it in for Monolith Soft/Xeno-series' sake. I just do not believe she would get in with Fighter Pass 2. If she is to arrive, Ultimate would require more DLC. If Sakurai and the team do not announce a Fighter Pass 3 as FP2 ends, I still believe they could turn around and do more DLC characters later, after the pandemic issues pass. I feel like that would be the only reason why they would hold off FP3. There are not many more characters who could make it in before KOS-MOS at this point. Pretty sure Mii costumes are a big disconfirmation considering they cost extra money in the first place.

KOS-MOS has nothing in this game whatsoever. I do not see anything as a Xenosaga representation at all. I think they are doing it on purpose in case they want to add KOS-MOS later. The Weltall colors are a Xenogears reference if anything, and I doubt Square Enix would care to do anything with Xenogears in Smash Bros. at this point. The gold and platinum outfits do not match the Zohar in my opinion. Seems like they just went with awesome colors and people are reaching. Some people even think that the blue outfit represents KOS-MOS, but the color scheme does not match(especially the overuse of red). They do not have blue/periwinkle colored hair, which could be that they do not want KOS-MOS and Mythra to be confusing together in the future if they share the same hair color. So, I think they developed Pyra/Mythra in Ultimate to stay removed from KOS-MOS totally and deliberately.

If this is the ultimate Smash Bros. game, this roster could likely never be done again. They need to continue with this game and not make another Smash Bros. game for while. So many other fighting games are doing long-run DLC. Look at Tekken, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Samurai Showdown, Soul Calibur, etc. They are all still doing DLC years after the games' releases. Three of the ones I mentioned are Bandai Namco games! If they make a new Smash Bros. game, it may go back to a starting 24 character roster anyway, and may not even be called Super Smash Bros. if Sakurai is no longer a part of it's development. So, I see Fighter Pass 3 in the future, even if it is not immediately after FP2.

TLDR; Bandai Namco rep may be likely. Fighter Pass 3 still likely. KOS-MOS is likely in FP3 since Pyra/Mythra did not come with anything remotely KOS-MOS related in my opinion.

Let me know what you all think so we can have a discussion! ^_^

Keep in mind that I was speculating when I said it is a Zohar alt. Also, MonolithSoft most likely designed the alts and that's why I analyzed them in deep detail. And no, KOS-MOS if referenced would have Pyra with blue hair. She has not been referenced in any of the alternate colours of Pyra and Mythra and while that's unfortunate imo i'm happy with what we got. But yeah while there is no confirmation of the references and i'm not sure if Monolith Soft will ever talk about their design choices I see Xenogears, Xenoblade 2, and a potential Xenosaga reference. And while this isn't really evidence per se it is important to note that Pyra and Mythra's fighter spirits are the figurine poses and those poses were originally on their figurine boxes. We do know that Tanaka's last job supposedly with Xeno was to make a illustration for the KOS-MOS figurine and KOS-MOS did get new art on the figurine box. Will it be in ultimate? Time will tell. I dont have much confidence in KOS-MOS coming in general and I dont think there will be a fighter pass 3. But she technically still isn't dead in the water yet because Namco can potentially get a fighter and that's all we can hope for really. As a Xeno fan i'm unbelievably happy with Pyra and Mythra and KOS-MOS would make a miracle come true for me if she were in this pass or fighter pass #3 (which I dont think is happening).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

True enough, hardware does have it's limits. So, would they have to gut some of the game to add more fighters to it on the current console, then? I do not know much about this computer stuff, but it is not like they are storing each update to the disk, but the console itself, right?

I'm not sure. But when Ultimate came out, dataminers digged through the code and found 16 empty slots in the WoL data. Since then, Plant, the fighters in Fighter's Pass 1 and Fighter's Pass 2 have taken up a 11 of those slots leaving only 3 more left after Fighter's Pass 2 is over. Pyra/Mythra take up 2 slots because they're interchangeable characters in case anyone asks. So I don't see Fighter's Pass 3 happening, but I could see a couple of bonus fighters after Pass 2 is done.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Luxin did a analysis on the Xeno references in the alt colours. For the most part I think he said everything I did but I never caught #7 so it could possibly be blade Nia. Just glad he sees the Zohar too because clearly i'm not crazy

 

[Luty]

Hold up. Could the aeronautical colors be from the Xenogears Gear?

 

[Starlight Liger]

With the amount of work Monolith Soft has put on this fighter pack I can't help but think they were REALLY involved. Like what other fighter was treated as really special that the developers tweeted out a thank you message with a short new character video? Also... how Sakurai said thank you to Monolith Soft it seemed like he was really happy. If we go over the number of things Monolith Soft has done for this fighter pack it's pretty amazing.

1: They directed the trailer which means Takahashi must have had a say in the script
2: Sakurai commissioned art to Saitom and we got new art for Pneuma who didn't even have any official art in the original game. All that existed for her was a face picture in the artbook and some concept art
3: Monolith Soft even referenced the successful figurines of Pyra/Mythra and their fighter spirits have the same poses as the figurines. Sakurai also had Pyra and Mythra on his table which leads us to believe he probably has KOS-MOS too lol
4: Monolith Soft got a personal thank you from Sakurai at the end of the presentation
5: When Pyra and Mythra dropped, Monolith Soft had a part in a cute thank you video
6: Sakurai went as far to even throw Xenogears references and maybe Xenosaga in Pyra and Mythra's alt colours. While it is disappointing he probably couldnt say why because of rights issues it's clear as day that they are references.

本日『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』に参戦するホムラとヒカリから、メッセージをあずかっていますも。
みなさんもぜひ、ふたりと一緒に戦ってほしいも！#スマブラSP #ゼノブレイド2 pic.twitter.com/aAd9vXseZY

— ゼノブレイド総合 (@XenobladeJP) March 5, 2021

I can't remember any fighter so far that got this amount of love and It's pretty crazy when you think about it.

Monolith Soft have expanded in size ever since Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was released so I'm not at all surprised that they were able to be this involved with the reveal of Pyra and Mythra whilst simultaneously working on their internal projects. They're a studio that deserves far more praise and recognition and I'm glad that Sakurai is providing that opportunity.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Hold up. Could the aeronautical colors be from the Xenogears Gear?

Yup it is Omnigear Weltall at the end of the game. Very neat, imo.

Monolith Soft have expanded in size ever since Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was released so I'm not at all surprised that they were able to be this involved with the reveal of Pyra and Mythra whilst simultaneously working on their internal projects. They're a studio that deserves far more praise and recognition and I'm glad that Sakurai is providing that opportunity.

Agreed with everything but I just wish they could have at least threw Xenoblade X a bone and given us the two Xenoblade X music tracks in the XB2 DLC which are Uncontrollable and Wir Fliegen. Like not even a Elma colour for Pyra/Mythra makes me think X is forgotten about D:
.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yup it is Omnigear Weltall at the end of the game. Very neat, imo.



Agreed with everything but I just wish they could have at least threw Xenoblade X a bone and given us the two Xenoblade X music tracks in the XB2 DLC which are Uncontrollable and Wir Fliegen. Like not even a Elma colour for Pyra/Mythra makes me think X is forgotten about D:
.

I mean... if they decide to return to dlc later and or make Ultimate DX, maybe then is when they’ll throw us X fans a bone? I think at this point it also hinges on a X Definitive Edition, more exposure = more incentive to promote Elma and X content in Smash

 

[Starlight Liger]

Agreed with everything but I just wish they could have at least threw Xenoblade X a bone and given us the two Xenoblade X music tracks in the XB2 DLC which are Uncontrollable and Wir Fliegen. Like not even a Elma colour for Pyra/Mythra makes me think X is forgotten about D:

I can understand no X tracks because of rights issues but it would have been nice to get a Mii costume of Elma.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I can understand no X tracks because of rights issues but it would have been nice to get a Mii costume of Elma.

Tbf, X is still stuck on the Wii U, and it’s been two years since she appeared in the XC2 expansion pass so if we got a costume of her now everyone b like “who?”

unfortunate truth of being an X Stan

 

[ES. Dinah]

Okay well there is a pretty small reference to KOS-MOS in Mythra's taunts. In Mythra's down taunt you can see her do the KOS-MOS victory pose and I think that's pretty damn cool. I dont recall Mythra ever doing this before in Xenoblade 2 and her idle animations in the game dont match.

if you want to compare... it's very similar but Mythra doesn't do the full twist but I think this is intentional.

 

[Merengue]

I seem negative, but I wonder if KOS-MOS is really done for? To this day, I'm still disappointed with the Byleth reveal. Pyra and Mythra are nice, but I would've preferred KOS-MOS instead. The next Smash game(if there will ever be) will take the next five years to announce. Damn, I'll be in college by now. I won't have much time to root for her.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I seem negative, but I wonder if KOS-MOS is really done for? To this day, I'm still disappointed with the Byleth reveal. Pyra and Mythra are nice, but I would've preferred KOS-MOS instead. The next Smash game(if there will ever be) will take the next five years to announce. Damn, I'll be in college by now. I won't have much time to root for her.

Well, Bandai-Namco hasn't received a newcomer in Ultimate yet and the Lloyd Mii costume from Smash 4 is still MIA, so KOS-MOS isn't out just yet. She isn't a Xenoblade character because she's a Xenosaga character and her and the Xenosaga IP are owned by Bandai-Namco. Pyra/Mythra's inclusion shouldn't completely rule her out since Xenoblade is owned by Nintendo and they don't own the whole Xenoverse.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well, Bandai-Namco hasn't received a newcomer in Ultimate yet and the Lloyd Mii costume from Smash 4 is still MIA, so KOS-MOS isn't out just yet. She isn't a Xenoblade character because she's a Xenosaga character and her and the Xenosaga IP are owned by Bandai-Namco. Pyra/Mythra's inclusion shouldn't completely rule her out since Xenoblade is owned by Nintendo and they don't own the whole Xenoverse.

At the same time KOS-MOS has other Bandai Namco competition like Nightmare, Sophitia, a Dark Souls character, the Prince of all Cosmos, and a non-Lloyd Tales character like Yuri or Luke

 

[the unholy Grail]

I seem negative, but I wonder if KOS-MOS is really done for? To this day, I'm still disappointed with the Byleth reveal. Pyra and Mythra are nice, but I would've preferred KOS-MOS instead. The next Smash game(if there will ever be) will take the next five years to announce. Damn, I'll be in college by now. I won't have much time to root for her.

Only time will tell. I've already discussed my thoughts on the Aegis getting in over KOS-MOS, and what that means for her chances. Judging by what Sakurai said though regarding having only 2 more chances for fighter presentations, it really does sound like pass 3 is a no-no (Which I'll be totally satisfied by.) and I REALLY doubt we'll get 2 (technically 3) Xeno characters in the same pass despite them not being from the same series. At the same time though, all of us were fully anticipating KOS-MOS to be deconfirmed by a potential mii gunner costume which didn't happen (in fact, NOTHING KOS-MOS happened even though she had Xenoblade 2 material to work with thanks to her KOS-MOS RE design for either a basic legendary spirit, an alternate color for Pyra/Mythra, or mii costume.) This, combined with the new figure theory and Lloyd's missing costume which may come in her potential challenger pack gives KOS-MOS a bit of second wind in her favor. A while back, Sakurai commented on purchasing "a toy mech with a gun" for one of his upcoming projects and low-and-behold KOS-MOS has a TON of figures and in some of them she is seen with her iconic pair of Gatling guns (either as part of the figure or customizable attachments.)

At the end of the day, KOS-MOS is neither confirmed NOR deconfirmed. It's why I joked about her being in smash purgatory in my last post. Until I see some big evidence for her specifically, I'm not banking on her anymore but will continue to speculate for the fun of it.

And on the topic regarding Sophitia as our Namco rep, I think she has a move where she crushes you with her thighs and wiggles her butt to break your neck in Soul Calibur (OWO.) even though that'd 100% be her down throw I think it's safe to rule her out for not being for good boys and girls. Rather, I think Nightmare instead has a bigger/realistic chance for the Namco rep because he's the mascot of SC and he's a bad*** villain which we need more of.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

one of the primary reasons I don’t see Nightmare happening, at least not before a “heroic” SC character, is cause I guess I still adhere to the “villain AFTER hero, no exceptions” rule. Fan rule? Yes. Does it have precedent? Also yes.

Ridley was added long after Samus; Bowser was added after Mario; Sephiroth after Cloud; and I could go on.

Although ngl, if they do a surprise of bundling a character with an echo in the same pack I wouldn’t be opposed to KOS-MOS with a T-elos echo. They only said no echoes for the first pass...

 

[RetrogamerMax]

one of the primary reasons I don’t see Nightmare happening, at least not before a “heroic” SC character, is cause I guess I still adhere to the “villain AFTER hero, no exceptions” rule. Fan rule? Yes. Does it have precedent? Also yes.

Ridley was added long after Samus; Bowser was added after Mario; Sephiroth after Cloud; and I could go on.

Although ngl, if they do a surprise of bundling a character with an echo in the same pack I wouldn’t be opposed to KOS-MOS with a T-elos echo. They only said no echoes for the first pass...

If we are getting a Soul Calibur character, it's definitely most likely going to be Nightmare because he's the face of the franchise even though he's literally the main antagonist. Same goes with Heihachi for Tekken. In Soul Calibur and Tekken, the main bad guys are the mascots so I think they would go first to represent their franchises in Smash.

 

[ES. Dinah]

I seem negative, but I wonder if KOS-MOS is really done for? To this day, I'm still disappointed with the Byleth reveal. Pyra and Mythra are nice, but I would've preferred KOS-MOS instead. The next Smash game(if there will ever be) will take the next five years to announce. Damn, I'll be in college by now. I won't have much time to root for her.

Shes not done for and never was. I always aimed this thread as that she would get in as a Namco representative. Xenosaga is a different world than Xenoblade and it is owned by bamco which means Xenoblade 2 characters have never had any effect on her chances. While two Xeno characters in the same pass feels like a long shot, it’s best not to fan rule because anything can be broken and even then it’s not even a fan rule as Xenosaga counts as another world.

I will say that while I don’t think KOS-MOS will happen this pass and maybe not until the next smash, I do think she has some slight oddities in her favour right now. I’m aware that it’s likely just coincidence but as the Zekenator said above there is a possible figure theory going around now and we know Sakurai had the Pyra and Mythra figurines on his table throughout the whole presentation and the artworks of both figurines got realized in smash as their fighter spirits.

KOS-MOS has exactly 0 content right now in smash in terms of spirits, mii costume and namco bandai still so I can’t call her done for. We don’t know if Pyra and Mythra were prioritized by Monolith in influencing Nintendo’s decision and all we know is that they were really involved in the trailer and other things. The characters got so much love and is equivalent or even more than Terry’s pack which got a bundle of songs. I’m of the mind that KOS-MOS was mentioned in the pass somewhere down the line though and Mythra’s down taunt is probably evidence of that. As I already mentioned, Mythra never poses like KOS-MOS in Xenoblade 2 and it seems they wanted to reference that in her taunt so it is two references.

Also, despite me saying this I did find a tweet where Luxin also suggested it isn’t coincidence

There is, in fact a crumb of a Xenosaga reference in Smash! pic.twitter.com/NWNM9Q2Jed

— Common Variety Xenotuber (fake) (@Luxin_Xeno) February 21, 2021

So yeah uhm KOS-MOS has not been forgotten. I believe the figure theory is possible because Sakurai said he hides unreleased fighter figurines in his drawer and he even included a Morgana figurine in the picture and we know Morgana is not in smash as a fighter but he is there regardless. So I’m thinking one of the remaining two fighters has a high profile figurine and we know Pyra and Mythra’s figurines were very important because they got referenced in the trailer, and spirits! However, it is also worth noting that this can be a joke too because we all know how smash speculation goes. Everyone thought Eggman was possible because of Sephiroth and more villain talk happened etc. It moves in a pretty annoying pattern and this may be nothing and it might not even matter for KOS-MOS.

And yeah I still want KOS-MOS in but I’m having so much fun with Pyra and Mythra and I can see myself never getting bored of them. They are just so fun so if KOS-MOS doesn’t happen it’s not the end of everything

 

[the unholy Grail]

On the topic of figure theory, I think it's legit but it doesn't narrow down who the remaining characters are. If anything, it may have just opened a pandora's box of sorts for speculation because all the top front runners and other slightly obscure characters have figures, meaning they might also have a realistic chance of being chosen for DLC. Unlike most fan theories I believe this one has the most merit because Sakurai himself confirmed he has figures of unreleased fighters in a locked drawer in order to give himself and his team an idea of how they could work in smash. Now I'm not sure how many figures other characters have, but KOS-MOS has a whopping 63 figures! (including that extremely cursed MOKKOS figure...) according to https://myfigurecollection.net/browse.v4.php?orEntries[]=1871&rootId=0. In my opinion, the more figures a character has, the more likely the chance of Sakurai owning them for smash purposes is.

With that being said however, there is one thing that gets in figure theory's way. Namely how Byleth, Min Min, and King K. Rool didn't have figures prior to their upcoming amiibo's so there's that to keep in mind.

Lastly, Pyra and Mythra's fighter spirits are taken straight from their official Good Smile box art (Except Mythra is censored.)

What are the chances KOS-MOS' potential fighter spirit is her own Good Smile box art which was done by Kunihiko Tanaka.
(which was his last project he worked on before leaving Monolith Soft.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the topic of figure theory, I think it's legit but it doesn't narrow down who the remaining characters are. If anything, it may have just opened a pandora's box of sorts because all the top front runners and other slightly obscure characters have figures, meaning they also might have a realistic chance of being chosen for DLC. Unlike most fan theories I believe this one has the most merit because Sakurai himself confirmed he has figures of unreleased fighters in a locked drawer in order to give himself and his team an idea of how they work in smash. Now I'm not sure how many figures other characters have, but KOS-MOS has a whopping 63 figures! (including that extremely cursed MOKKOS figure...) according to https://myfigurecollection.net/browse.v4.php?orEntries[]=1871&rootId=0. In my opinion, the more figures a character has, the more likely the chance of Sakurai owning them for smash purposes is.

...MOKKOS? Is it that weird looking V2 one?

also, T-elos has a Figma too...

 

[the unholy Grail]

...MOKKOS? Is it that weird looking V2 one?

also, T-elos has a Figma too...

Yeah and it was made by Satan himself.

 

[Banado_Boy]

On the topic of figure theory, I think it's legit but it doesn't narrow down who the remaining characters are. If anything, it may have just opened a pandora's box of sorts for speculation because all the top front runners and other slightly obscure characters have figures, meaning they also might have a realistic chance of being chosen for DLC.

I really don't think "Figure Theory" should be taken that seriously. Almost every third-party character under the sun has a figure of some sort to reference, and like you said later in your post, we've gotten characters who've had no figures prior to their reveal (these tend to be first-party choices). That's just me, though.

On a separate note, I really think Fighter Pass 2 is the end of DLC, and this is it for KOS-MOS as well (at least for Ultimate). I'll still comment in this character thread from time to time, but I'm gonna just let the Smash dream rest for now and continue to devote my energy to asking Namco for them modern Xenosaga ports (and maybe Xenoblade X/X2 and Xenogears from Nintendo and Square, respectively).

 

[PSIGuy]

With that being said however, there is one thing that gets in figure theory's way. Namely how Byleth, Min Min, and King K. Rool didn't have figures prior to their upcoming amiibo's so there's that to keep in mind.

K. Rool had a figure based on the cartoon in Japan, which was popular enough to influence perception of the character there. His eye bulge on a whiffed grab is insured by it.

But the more important point is that ‘figure theory’ is just an extension of Sakurai collecting reference material. He’s mentioned collecting game guides for easy to access information before.
There’s no shortage of reference material for KOS-MOS. If he can’t get one of the several dozen figures or statues he can probably ask for the original model/s or consult an art book. Worst case scenario he has to commission art of what the underside of her boots look like from the original artist.

 

[Starlight Liger]

K. Rool had a figure based on the cartoon in Japan, which was popular enough to influence perception of the character there. His eye bulge on a whiffed grab is insured by it.

But the more important point is that ‘figure theory’ is just an extension of Sakurai collecting reference material. He’s mentioned collecting game guides for easy to access information before.
There’s no shortage of reference material for KOS-MOS. If he can’t get one of the several dozen figures or statues he can probably ask for the original model/s or consult an art book. Worst case scenario he has to commission art of what the underside of her boots look like from the original artist.

Most of the new fighters for base Smash Ultimate were the results from the Smash Ballot, I don't think the figure theory applies there.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Most of the new fighters for base Smash Ultimate were the results from the Smash Ballot, I don't think the figure theory applies there.

I think some of the DLC newcomers in Ultimate were a result of the Smash Ballot as well. Banjo & Kazooie were one of the top requests back then and Steve was negotiated for more than 5 years ago when the Smash Ballot would have been going on. Those 2 I definitely believe were Ballot picks.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think some of the DLC newcomers in Ultimate were a result of the Smash Ballot as well. Banjo & Kazooie were one of the top requests back then and Steve was negotiated for more than 5 years ago when the Smash Ballot would have been going on. Those 2 I definitely believe were Ballot picks.

There’s no doubt Steve was a ballot pick, that much I feel is certain. Just, he had to be relegated to DLC due to his complexity.

Hero and Sephiroth were likely influenced by the ballot too at least for Japan

 

[Starlight Liger]

I think some of the DLC newcomers in Ultimate were a result of the Smash Ballot as well. Banjo & Kazooie were one of the top requests back then and Steve was negotiated for more than 5 years ago when the Smash Ballot would have been going on. Those 2 I definitely believe were Ballot picks.

And they both happen to be Microsoft characters, I don't think that's a coincidence at all. Nintendo knew the value of both of those characters.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

There’s no doubt Steve was a ballot pick, that much I feel is certain. Just, he had to be relegated to DLC due to his complexity.

Hero and Sephiroth were likely influenced by the ballot too at least for Japan

And Banjo & Kazooie too since their fans were the loudest along with K. Rool's fans during the Smash Ballot days.

And they both happen to be Microsoft characters, I don't think that's a coincidence at all. Nintendo knew the value of both of those characters.

And it makes me wonder how well Master Chief did in the Ballot. I wouldn't be surprised if he scored as high as they did.

 

[ES. Dinah]

So i've been thinking for a few days now but what did Sakurai mean that figurines help him show what the bottom of the feet looks like in game? I took a look at some figurines and I dunno if it means anything but the KOS-MOS art on the Re figurine box is only half and not a full figure. If she were to get in smash would they have to get Tanaka to draw the feet too for her fighter spirit? Since he supposedly left Monolith Soft and Xeno then how will they do that? Just a thought.... there's also some "glitch theory" going around that may suggest a projectile character is coming but I dont believe in it. Speculation is probably the slowest it has ever been right now and I guess nobody truly knows any of the coming characters. if KOS-MOS is ever in a leak going forward I will proceed to immediately ignore it as well.

Anyway, for figurine theory i'm thinking if it actually is a thing then these characters have a chance of getting in the last two slots: Saber, KOS-MOS, Lloyd, Crash, Reimu. I was mainly looking on the goodsmile website since Nintendo seems to value them as we can see with Pyra and Mythra figurines, KOS-MOS, and the other XB2 figurines. Honestly I think it's a goodsmile figurine that's got to be a character or two next.

I'll add my Zelda BOTW prediction too. I feel like i'm confident in that one and she does have a Goodsmile nendoroid as well.

 

[PSIGuy]

If she were to get in smash would they have to get Tanaka to draw the feet too for her fighter spirit? Since he supposedly left Monolith Soft and Xeno then how will they do that?

Why would they need the RE:Kosmos figure art specifically? They could use the default re:Kosmos art or any of her promotional renders. The only reason they used Pyra/Mythra's figure art for the spirit is because they're full body artworks that weren't already used. Minmin was in a similar position and they just picked a different render for her.

 

[AnEasterEgg]

Figurine theory just makes me think, "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?!". Practically any popular character has some sort of figure. And, even if they don't, it's not like the Smash devs NEED one, it's just handy to have. I really think people are taking it too seriously.

 

[Luty]

Figurine theory just makes me think, "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?!". Practically any popular character has some sort of figure. And, even if they don't, it's not like the Smash devs NEED one, it's just handy to have. I really think people are taking it too seriously.

There is not even a figure for Byleth in existence, right? Other than the amiibo, Byleth is likely absent from Sakurai's collection. I am pretty sure he just said that he likes to have a figure of each of the characters. Not like he said it was necessary.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Why would they need the RE:Kosmos figure art specifically? They could use the default re:Kosmos art or any of her promotional renders. The only reason they used Pyra/Mythra's figure art for the spirit is because they're full body artworks that weren't already used. Minmin was in a similar position and they just picked a different render for her.

I was moreso linking it to how Pyra and Mythra got their fighter spirits in the form of their figurine art and referenced in their trailers. I thought that was special which is why I brought up the KOS-MOS Re figure art. Sure, they CAN use the other renders or her official art.

Figurine theory just makes me think, "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?!". Practically any popular character has some sort of figure. And, even if they don't, it's not like the Smash devs NEED one, it's just handy to have. I really think people are taking it too seriously.

I think figurine theory holds some weight but it is indeed hard to nail down since Sakurai buys multiple figures of the characters. You can see in both the old figure collection picture and new one

An image of Sakurai's figure collection. If figures exist of the characters, he uses these figures to get a closer look at them. It says under the caption that figures of characters not announced are not in the picture. pic.twitter.com/914AlNufpl

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) April 24, 2019

And the new picture from the Pyra/Mythra presentation

Imo, it is still worth keeping in mind that he updates the figure collection everytime even though he's only shown it twice. We can see Terry and Hero added to the new collection for example and while it's not a full shot i'm sure he has more. Not every character gets a fighter based on a figure but i'd wager that most do.

There is not even a figure for Byleth in existence, right? Other than the amiibo, Byleth is likely absent from Sakurai's collection. I am pretty sure he just said that he likes to have a figure of each of the characters. Not like he said it was necessary.

Maybe because Monster Hunter was used as a base Sakurai didn't feel the need for a figure. Plus, doesn't Edelgard have one? She should have been the rep in place of Byleth aha.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

He said or otherwise implied the last two had figurines right? What are some commonly speculated characters aside from KOS-MOS?

I know Crash, Reimu, Lloyd, Ahri are a few that come to mind