Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Wots All This Then?]

I await your content.

 

[#HBC | J]

Head's up to everyone. It's just gonna be me for a while. Alex is without computer for unknown time. I'll post on PP but just a notice.

 

[giraffelasergun]

GLG's intro seems fine but I didn't really catch any scumreads/opinions from him. Can you do that when you have the time, thanks broski.

I'm going to give you a read list for the current moment. I haven't finished my catch up yet, but I'm going to give you what reads I have.

Right now, I feel most comfortable calling PJB, WOTT, and You town.
Rake is a nulltown, nothing he's posted seems to make me want to think he's scum so far.
I'm not sure how I feel about Gheb, Soup, or Kantrip(is kantrip the person that everyone calls potato?) All I've read from them are angry posts and then quittish posts, which makes it difficult for me to try to figure out their alignment. Soup seems to be the most scum out of the three, because earlier toDay he made a post saying that he want to post anything until Gheb got Removed, which irks me.
Shoco, Pawn, and TTK all seem to be in the category of "I can't remember ever seeing content from them", and they all make posts that seem to read "I don't know what to say but I want you guys know that I'm here", which doesn't make me feel to highly of them. I haven't seen many original opinions from them either.
Right now, I have a gut scum read on PP. I'm going to look at their slot closely when I reread.
Red Ryu's post are very interesting. Right now all I've read of him is that his number one goal is self preservation, which in this game doesn't seem to be either a town or scum tell. He is very outright that his number one goal is to get a personal victory.

I'm sorry this wasn't as helpful as it could be, I'll provide more concrete reads later(and hopefully any kind of read on the nulls). I'll address some other things later once I get the chance.

I'm also considering a room change. Granted it looks like the majority of my room is changing out tonight, there are some people who's rooms I really want to be in just to bounce some thoughts off of.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

PP scum read should be interesting to hear explained.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

71 town feels from kantrip here.

Your giving hjim to much credit for a null tell, best I'd say is at least he tried for a null town feel

97 soup commenting on my alignment reminds me of how he opened Ryu's toonami.

Wrong post number, 97 was soups "i would come out ahead of a townie"

109 is a town vibes kinda post.

Agreed. Liked this by Ryu.

Soup what the hell was ryker referring to in 113?

Prolly something sneaky

wanted opinions on 114.

Was alright, him whiteknighting you halfy i found odd but it did't raise any flags to me.

We agreed 126 was a townrake sort of post.

Every post this game has been a townRake post. Jus sayin

185 and 198 townie posts imo..

Not really on 185. Maybe a lil more townie than null but thats it.

Like 198, but felt it was cookie cutting soups play at the time

does 208 have a point behind it?

Soupa Hatred of Kantplay as I took it

214 feels misguided but I don't think it is scum.

I found it kinda defensive actually

Soup Ran buddying prolly holds one scum in the relationship if any.
Prolly Soup in that Case^
the attitude in 240 is so un-ran like. Unsure if scumm ran like though

Angryan town imo

243 so Rantown though ugh. Wonder if his experiance in Circfia made ranscum better?(Circfia=Scott Pilgrim) (Marshy was coaching ran in the scum qt while he was alive fyi)

Ranscum jus lurks though.

Plus it didnt feel like Ran was wrong in what he was trying to achieve at the time.

Soup and Shoco both mentioning Rake as town early on unsubstantiated is probably meaning he is actually town if they both flip scum.(273 soup 179 shoco)

Soup always calls me town essentially though, truthfully more as scum but it's null.
Seph's was odder, at least Soup attempted reasoning, pretty sure Seph has been mum on it all game wrt to me.

283 surface level scummy and slightly scummy motivations wise. 285 a connection between shoco/soup?

283 was null and non interesting imo.

285: Scum calls a unknown mate bad ? Idgaf but it'd be funny as hell.

300 holds merit imo.
as does 310

Of course they do, I'm amazing

321 kantrip can't back up his ****.

Found it scummy. KantTown should want to hold hands and sing koombia.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

idk what I meant about 97 then.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Pawn I hope you give the other reasons for why you think Gheb is scum.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Status 2-3


Bye Votecount
Ryu (

): Ryu
Rake (

): Choco
Wots (

): Pixp, PJB, Wots, Fabio, Pawn, Pota

Removal Votecount
Gheb (

): Ryu, Koops, Pixp, Soup

Request Queue
PJB > Room 4
Ryu > Room 2
Koops > Room 2
Soup > Room 3
Wots > Room 4
Rake > Room 2
Fabio > Room 3
Pota > Room 1

 

[Orboknown]

Ryu just hammer me on the bye. Stop being stubborn.
I'll hydra quote this later I guess.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Bye: Wots

I'm only on page nine of my reread, I'm sorry it's taking longer than I expected to but I should be able to be finished by the match phase. On another note...
Room Transfer: Room 4
I believe this should allow Ryu, Koops, and Rake to come into room 2 and i also want to be in a room with PJB, PP, and Wotts. So this is good.

 

[giraffelasergun]

ebwop: Request Room Transfer Room 4

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Ryu just hammer me on the bye. Stop being stubborn.
I'll hydra quote this later I guess.

hitherequote

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

hocked my mom's laptop for a second to read up. after today, expect little from me until i have an actual computer. i might be able to use school ones but those are dependent on time and availability.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

At least, that's how I assume it is. May be different for match phase if Nabe takes that time to calculate results.

If Gheb/Soup/Pawn/etc. prolong the phases at all, then it'll be just as long.

which they will, because they're ****tards

now will you two kiss, make up, and then decide to post on the same ****ing hydra instead of having a conversation with yourself on a single ****ing page, this is weird. it's like you two need marriage counseling or something, worst hydra 205evur

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

giraffelasergun replaces Ryker, effective immediately.

i wish i had my computer i want a reaction .gif for this so bad

oh well

****ing finally we have some lifeblood in that slot

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Hi WOTT. I dpn't believe I've played a game with of either of you two so it's nice to meet you both.

I've read most of the thread so far but I don't remember a lot of the early day one phase so I'm going to start a reread shortly, I recommend that some of you guys do the same as from what I can tell you've guys have gotten lazy. But before I say that I would just like to say that it really is not in our best interest to remove Gheb so early in the game. While it is one argument whether or not he is mafia or town, removing him this early is not a very good idea because someone else might start slipping some scum tells later and it would be much harder to get rid of a person later in the game. Unless someone has a good argument as to how many reads we'll gain from Gheb revealing(flipping? good gosh it's been a long time since I've played mafia) it seems really silly to remove him this early. Also, it would just cause the stagnant that the game is suffering from now to reappear a few day phases from now when we still don't have a lot to talk about.

Alright, you're like the 3rd person to use this argument so I guess I actually have to address it.

What happens if we use it tomorrow? What happens if we use it any day other than the last possible day? The thing about this argument is that it hinges on "well what happens after if we change our minds on someone else" and none of you are realizing that no matter when we use the ****ing removal the game will still continue afterwards. This and the whole "it's risky" arguments are just excuses not to make a risky play that may remove scum from the game and even if we do remove scum, there's still going to be 3 left.

So please, stop with this. Don't argue about the mechanics of the removal itself. I brought this up entirely conscious of what the risks and benefits were. I wanted counterpoints to the removal of Gheb and all I've gotten are "it's risky!" and "what happens if we're wrong?" and "what happens if someone else is scummy and we blew our removal?" and those are such horse**** counterarguments. I know damn well of this. If you want to argue Gheb's removal, talk to me about Gheb himself or if we should remove someone else. I said I can be persuaded but this is not how you do it.

And you guys are banking on this game lasting exactly 6 phases. Nabe has made it clear in the OP that it's entirely possible for us to move into brackets sooner than that.

Also since Gheb is refusing to post in this game it looks like he'll be modkilled soon enough so it doesn't make sense to one shot remove him.

This. This is a fair argument.

Also, what is with you guys? So many of you are just blatantly refusing to post and that just makes me D: It doesn't help anyone for people to just stop posting all entirely because you "lost interest" in this game. Refind that interest. There's so many cool mechanics to explore and forty(that's four tens!) pages of content to explore that there should be more than enough to keep you on the edge of your seat. I understand that some of you have just gotten really angry at one or two players, but be professional. Take a deep breath, and keep playing. It's not fair to the rest of us that you just quit and throw a fit about it. Nothing's going to get done when most of us just whine or not post. It's also really not fair to Nabe because he worked really hard to make a cool game that has so many different mechanics for people to just give up like that. You made a commitment to everyone on the player list and Nabe when you signed up, keep to that commitment.

i know you're not beat but you really shouldn't be reprimanding people for not posting peeks you were just as guilty as he back in the days >:r

Jokes aside, thank you. I wish I could be here but unfortunately technical problems are forcing me to take a backseat. You have J until then.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

also hi guys.

im here today.

so...use me lol

i don't like the idea of removing pawn. i'd rather use it on the stronger players, because all of us can effectively lock him out of victory through a lot of careful play. if it comes down to it, let's remove him, but i think out of the scumteam, should he actually be scum, he's the most likely to form the obvious paper trail.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Pawn or Shoco if any removal today, preferably shoco.


oh wait i was looking at the removal count.

not sure on shoco, actually. i kinda want to put him in a room with me for a night because if this is truly just pissed off, frustrated, trolling-the-piss-outta-us ramses (which i've gotten glimpses of the entire game), i'll know. some of you said ghebscum was too obvious yesterday, yet failed to point out the giant elephant in the room that practically everyone, even gheb, was pointing to as scum.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

We can't go into match results lol.

The only reason why match results would be useful at all would be to catch a liar, but in this game and with the way this game is set up, there is literally no reason to lie. Town is encouraged to cheat. The only thing our opponent can see is colors. The opponent has no idea if I cheat or not until I openly admit so, and as a player I am encouraged to cheat regardless of my alignment because that puts me at a higher advantage regardless and it will put me in the Top 8 for sure if I win all of my matches.

Scum isn't always going to win, and in this format, they have no reason not to lose every now and again. Top 8 get put into a winners bracket, bottom 4 in losers. Scum has no reason to win every single one of their matches considering that getting into the bottom four is very likely as long as you win like... Three of your matches? Four? Finding scum through matches is VERY unlikely, especially considering that there are players that are willing to do every dirty trick to win at this point regardless of alignment.

Extreme individualism is encouraged by the fact that we can't lynch players. We have one removal, and as long as we're not Gheb at this point, we can act in any way that we want due to the fact that we all already have our general reads. In the end this game will turn into "BEAT SCUM IN TOURNAMENT D:<" regardless of our reads outside of our one removal, so players honestly aren't encouraged to interact outside of match results and characters, both of which are pretty useless to discuss and only give us either baseless reads that go no where or baseless self confirmation in our already solid reads.

There is almost no reason to discuss tournament results if we can't discuss characters in my opinion. Anyone disagree?

nah use your head

Seriously Ran. I'll think about talking about characters, but seriously, there is absolutely no reason to write off matches. Seeing Pawn claim he won a 2-0 victory and then say "lel i didn't cheat" is suspicious. Catching a liar is important and it is very possible to do so.

Also please read up on the suspicion mechanic that goes into effect cycle 2 it's pretty ****ing important

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Request Room Change to Room 3

I said previously that our slot is moving, so this seems like a good move.

why are you moving?

why are you moving here?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Shoco is still scummy. Nothing he's said has changed that for me. Gheb is scum, but we should hold off on removing him for a bit. At least until tomorrow, I think another match phase's results should be on the table so we can try and draw some patterns. Soup I think is town that's really getting fed up with this game. I understand, there is so little we can actually do it's frustrating. Kantrip I don't know, I don't think he's been around recently.

why are you sticking around in a room with scum in it if you think he is in fact scum

who do you think is scum now then

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

i could grab a specific post but really i don't agree with anything ran has said at all since i've started reading

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I have no reason to listen to people that somehow think "IT'S NOT LIKELY THAT PAWN 2-0'D KANTRIP, SO THAT MAKES ME MORE SUSPICIOUS OF HIM" is anywhere near a reasonable logical statement.

mfw it's actually joey

sigh

Alright, look at it like this. Your entire argument is weighted on "town is afraid of being found by the cop because it's still valuable to cheat and do their best", right? So why aren't you more interested in the WOTT vs Shoco match? Both cheated, both claim to have cheated, and yet WOTT still got absolutely buttdevastated. Is it possible? Just like the Pawn case. Is it probable? Questionable. That's why I'm interested and I keep bringing it up. The information I'm gaining here isn't nearly as infallible as a cop guilty but I can still gain something out of it by referencing it with what I know about that slot based on their performance in-thread. We don't have flips. We have to make due with everything else available to us and taking match results out of the picture is taking the closest ****ing thing to a flip we have in this game away. I'm not doing that.

I am liable to get things wrong. I'm not making definitive statements based on this. But we should be skeptical of the heavy winners just as we are skeptical of the heavy losers. Don't think I didn't consider the idea of Kantrip tanking as hard as he can so as to avoid confusion or not cheating so as to avoid being punished by a cop.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeah, in another day or two. I just don't want to be too hasty about it only to realize he was going to be modkilled/we have a better option or whatever.

so was ryker

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Of course I'm still not entirely sure why Gheb waited until the hotel room to leave. To me that says he wanted me to tell everyone but I'm not sure how that would benefit him.

to me that means he's being a ***** because i called him out and he couldn't take it, so he decided to post petty comments and dip in a place where i couldn't call him a ***** to his face

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

welp, bye hammered in

i'm out until match phases then, jbby text me when those start

fwiw i really think more interest needs to be placed on the laundry list of room changes that happened this phase. some are obvious, some need more attention.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wait, so we basically bye'd for no reason and didn't follow through on the Removal which would have netted us much more information?

Yeah, you're goddamn right I'm frustrated. I don't 100% scum-read Gheb like Washed but I agreed with his case for the most part and I don't believe Gheb is worth keeping around. I don't understand how you people can consistently post in this thread completely content that despite your large post-count in this thread, that nothing is getting done. I've heard people call be Scum, but I frankly don't care because that's all it's ever going to be. I know I might be reverting back to my previous mindset, but I feel completely justified in not giving two ****s about what's going on, and if you wanna keep on sounding the trumpets of me being scum, go right ahead!

Let me know when this game actually progresses.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Wait, so we basically bye'd for no reason and didn't follow through on the Removal which would have netted us much more information?

if you think we bye'd wott for no reason you're hilariously off-base

Yeah, you're goddamn right I'm frustrated. I don't 100% scum-read Gheb like Washed but I agreed with his case for the most part and I don't believe Gheb is worth keeping around. I don't understand how you people can consistently post in this thread completely content that despite your large post-count in this thread, that nothing is getting done. I've heard people call be Scum, but I frankly don't care because that's all it's ever going to be. I know I might be reverting back to my previous mindset, but I feel completely justified in not giving two ****s about what's going on, and if you wanna keep on sounding the trumpets of me being scum, go right ahead!

Let me know when this game actually progresses.

soup pls

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Rah rah rah rah reads mean nothing if you can't lynch them nabe what the **** were you thinking mate like what is mafia without lynching it's like cake without the frosting

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Status 2-4


Bye Votecount
Ryu (

): Ryu
Rake (

): Choco
Wots (

): Pixp, PJB, Wots, Fabio, Pawn, Pota, GLG

Removal Votecount
Gheb (

): Ryu, Koops, Pixp, Soup

Request Queue
PJB > Room 4
Ryu > Room 2
Koops > Room 2
Soup > Room 3
Wots > Room 4
Rake > Room 2
Fabio > Room 3
Pota > Room 1
GLG > Room 4


With 7 votes of 13, Wots All This Then has received the Bye for Day 2.
This phase lasts ~24 hours from this post.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

MATCH PHASE 2​

(Following Lunch)​

​

GLG VS PJB​

Ryu VS Choco​

Pawn VS Rake​

Koops VS Soup​

Pota VS Fabio​

Pixp VS Gheb​

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Koops VS Soup

Great. I haven't played a single goddamn match. I'm gonna cheat my ass off. Prepare for it.

 

[Super Fabulous]

In the cycle we are currently in, matches have almost no value. Pawn maaay have lied, but if he did, it was totally because he would be newb scum or would have some ******** town mentality that was like "If they know I cheated, they'd cut off my head" regardless of the fact that town has just as much motivation to cheat as scum.

Saying 2-0ing is improbable is like saying winning two games of RPS is impossible. It may be slightly more unlikely, but the reality is that they're two separate games and you're going to have the same percentage to win regardless. It's not like the loser learns your strategies all of a sudden. Saying "It's unlikely, so it's worth looking at" is a crap shoot, and I'd MUCH rather rely on reads than anything regarding matches due to town and scum having the same motive when it comes to match results (which is to win by any means necessary). Also, Shoco's characters could completely coutner Watts. We will just never know, now will we?

I REALLY doubt we're going to catch anyone in a lie. We can take shots in the dark, but considering that there is literally no reason to lie... You're banking on too much with these results. Even if they did lie, it'd be REALLY easy to get away with, and we're still basically playing a guessing game. Yes, it's like a guessing game due to no flips, but throwing in results just brings in pointless crap.

We're effectively playing rock paper scissors here without the whole "LOL THROW ROCK FIRST" metagame or whatever you kids have with your RPS now a days. It is literally random. Every match we do is a shot in the dark 100%. We can easily win 2-0, we can easily lose 2-0. Cheating gives us an advantage. Using the same characters gives us an advantage. Counter picking a main gives you color buffs. That's it regarding matches.

I'm saying that the only reason a townie would choose not to cheat is because of the town cop, and even then it's a bad reason not to cheat. Scum will still cheat regardless, and if you both get 0 points, then good job taking one for the team buddy. There is no reason not to cheat in this game unless you have some type of wincon against it, and even then it's honestly not worth it anyways because it pretty much guarantees you a lower spot in tournament.

Last of all, telling apart Scum team's cheating from town's? Hah. Good luck. The fact that this game has no characters revealed in matches along with cheating having priority over playing regularly can make scum cheating look perfectly identical to regular cheating, which everyone should be doing at this point.

I understand relying on reads, but connecting match results to reads is like me adding an OMGUS section to a case in regular mafia. The concept of using OMGUS to back up a lynch is completely pointless and it has no value to an actual case against any player. Replace OMGUS with match results.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Tell me, what do mafia gain by ending their match 2-0? Why would they not wait to use their banned moves in the 3rd game so it looks legitimate like every other game? There is literally no reason for Mafia to go for a specific 2-0 when they can easily go for a 2-1 when they have a banned move. It's a free win regardless. Going for the 2-0 just puts pointless pressure on yourself like it is now. Scum have way more control assuming they have a character with a banned move.

 

[Super Fabulous]

why are you moving?

why are you moving here?

Easy to reach wincon that doesn't effect our gameplay at all. It looked like the only room that had open space.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

In the cycle we are currently in, matches have almost no value. Pawn maaay have lied, but if he did, it was totally because he would be newb scum or would have some ******** town mentality that was like "If they know I cheated, they'd cut off my head" regardless of the fact that town has just as much motivation to cheat as scum.

Based on what you said here, I'm not reading the rest of this. If you're going to disregard the fact that if Pawn did lie, you can gain a read out of it, one way or the other, then I don't need to hear the rest of your long-winded justification for throwing out information.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Lol Laundry don't even.

What reason does scum have to lie about this? Tell me. I'm begging to hear. If Pawn did lie, it was probably a newb scum mistake because he was pressured. It's a slight (very slight) possibility that he lied because he was afraid of town, but eh.

I just don't think he lied, as there is literally no reason to lie.

For all of this defending you're doing against the idea of using matches, you haven't told me why scum would even bother lying about anything in this game.

 

[Super Fabulous]

In case it wasn't obvious enough, we gain a read out of a lie. Catching a lie is very unlikely though, as scum has literally no reason to lie, nor does town.

I'd personally read Pawn as scum if he lied, because it would really just look like a newbie scum mistake that didn't consider town's motives at all. He'd have no reason to be ashamed of a 2-0 win or of cheating if he was town, so I don't think a townie (or scummy) would lie in this scenario.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Umm, for the record, I'm not voting to remove gheb because

A.) Yes, it's risky. It will be less risky later, because we will have made a more informed decision.

B.) I'm not convinced Gheb is scum. Like, at all. PP's case on gheb amounts to little more than "Look at gheb being salty gheb! Scum." to me. Yes, he's anti-town as all ****. How many times have you played with Gheb? He's always like that, especially when he's town.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Like, I'm not even waiting around for "moar content plz!". The problem is that there's literally slots in this game with no content, and I want to see them before I decide who the best removal is.