Kirbys Strenghts and Weaknesses (he is not that bad)

[Sneak Sneaks]

We all know that Kirby is famous for being bad, he is really light, his b moves are decent at best and he is really floaty but he also get good things for him, like his good smash attacks with few lag and good knockback, his comboish tilts and his upthrow! With the recent dthrow boost and less lag on neutral b I think he will rise, what do you think are Kirbys strengths and weaknesses and how relevant will he be in the later metagame?

 

[Togii]

Kirby was famous for being bad in Melee and somewhat Brawl. Most people consider him solidly in the middle of the cast this time around.

I honestly think that Kirby could become a lot more popular if Luigi got nerfed. He has an awful matchup against Luigi, but good matchups against Sheik, ZSS, Ness, Fox, and other high-tier characters. He could be the next anti-meta character.

 

[FKA Kobra]

Kirby has only been bad in melee. He is high tier in Smash 64 and mid tier in all the other games. His advantages are he is good in the air, has good combo potential, many jumps, his pummel and grabs do a lot of damage, has strong smash attacks, and he is the only character that can steal neutral b. He does have some bad matchups like rosalina, luigi, and some other projectile users, but overall has a lot of good matchups. Of course he is light and can struggle approaching but his inhale can help him in many matchups. I think the people who call him bad just don't know how to use him to his fullest.

 

[Underhill]

Worst fighter in Melee. He's one of the best characters in Smash bros 64, but second bested by Pikachu. In Brawl, he's average and a mid tier. Before the patch, he's wasn't good on Smash bros 4, but not bad either; However thanks to the patch, he's better and I think he's a mid tier.
Pros:Good air attacks, pro at edgeguarding with D-air, f-air, stone and cutter, hard to combo, good at koing, his back throw and up throw can kill, but fresh on 150% or higher, has the copy ability to other fighters' neutral b, his combos are good, and his recovery is good, thanks to his five jumps.
Cons: Light-weighted, has trouble approaching, slow air speed, get juggled easily because of his low falling speed, and having subpar range.
Matchups: Kirby does well against ,,,,, and; However, he can have a hard time against ,,,, and.

Custom: His best ones are Jumping Inhale, Hammer bash, and Upper Cutter. Stones, I don't know.

I think he's close to brawl, but better than Melee though. With customs, he's a mid-high tier.

 

[GhettoNinja]

•Kirby was great in 64
•Kirby in melee was....let's not talk about it
•Kirby in Brawl had Gonzo Combo and Chu Dat made him viable.
•Kirby in Smash 4 is amazing. I'm trying to show him off one online toureny at a time. (Like koolaid did for Pac Man) but overall he's able to get in and destroy. East moves that string together and customs like His Up B make him Top Tier IMO. The problem is that you have to master or at least be good with all of the casts Specials and know 2-3 of their techs or at least which are worth fighting for. Playing Kirby is like playing a mega man game. You study your opponents Pattern. Use your current tools as best you can. Use the new power to open up holes and win.

 

[Mega-Spider]

As a Kirby player, here are my general thoughts about how he was in each game before I go into detail about Smash 4:
Smash 64: The second best character next to Pikachu.
Melee: Worst character, and yes, I'm butthurt over it. :/
Brawl: Since Brawl was the first game in the series that I played, Kirby was the first character I grew attached to. He's pretty good, which is saying a lot for Melee.
Smash 4: Kirby is more or less the same as he was in Brawl, but with some tweaks. Kirby's biggest strength is his incredible combo and recovery game. Since Kirby has 5 jumps, recovering with Kirby is going to be easy. Kirby's combo game is just amazing. His Down Air is by far his best move, as it can lead into several possibilities from jabs, Smash attacks and grabs. Kirby's grab game is also really good, with an incredibly fast pummel and decent throws, with Up Throw being an okay kill throw at later percents (around 160-180, I believe). His Up Tilt is another great move of his, since it's one of those tilts that locks an opponent, like Fox's U-Tilt. Kirby's air game is also great, with his B-Air doing a lot of damage and his U-Air being a good move to keep opponents in the air. I already mentioned the awesomeness of his D-Air, but it can also cause a mini-spike in the air. He has pretty good specials. His N-Special can allow for some interesting match ups, as it can change the tide of the match. The U-Special can be a decent spacing option with the little wave it shoots out and can spike as well. D-Special, Stone, is a risky move, as missing with it can allow for a bad punish since you can be grabbed in that state. Only use it to catch your opponents off guard in the air. Hammer Flip is only good for a punish or after a shield break, but if you're confident that you'll hit with it, try. Kirby's Smash attacks are extremely good, especially his Side Smash, as it has a lot of knockback. As far as Kirby's weaknesses are concerned, since he's floaty, he slowly falls, which many opponents can use to their advantage to keep Kirby in the air and punish him. This is obvious, but since Kirby's one of the lightest characters in the game, he's gonna be destroyed pretty quickly unless you know what you're doing. Overall, while light and floaty, Kirby excels at his air and combo game, making him a threat in the right hands.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

•Kirby was great in 64
•Kirby in melee was....let's not talk about it
•Kirby in Brawl had Gonzo Combo and Chu Dat made him viable.
•Kirby in Smash 4 is amazing. I'm trying to show him off one online toureny at a time. (Like koolaid did for Pac Man) but overall he's able to get in and destroy. East moves that string together and customs like His Up B make him Top Tier IMO. The problem is that you have to master or at least be good with all of the casts Specials and know 2-3 of their techs or at least which are worth fighting for. Playing Kirby is like playing a mega man game. You study your opponents Pattern. Use your current tools as best you can. Use the new power to open up holes and win.

Top tier? not bashing on you, but he does have weaknesses. He is light, he can't approach, and he has bad range. That alone makes him out of top tier. Maybe high tier, but even with customs top tier is a stretch.

 

[Jaroking]

Kirby's ONLY issue is being light. Many jumps is a good thing, his up b is decent and can spike as he grabs the edge. Side B kills, learn to use it. Down B is a great surprise kill when someone has hit you up and tries to follow you. B can give you anyones B moves, think Shulk and Roy. All his smashes are decent, Side B moves him forward which I like. His smashes are easy to pull off after down air or spot dodging. Down air to up smash is a great combo which at higher % obviously kills. His up tilt is great to juggle and get people up for air combos, down air into uptilt, jump, up air, up air, either chase with forward air or use neural, depends what foe is trying, you can also use up B to get a last hit if they are retreating, let the air wave hit them as they land from their retreating your air combos... I believe Kirby should be high C tier if not, Low B. Played smash since Melee's release. Melee was the only game he was bad in.

 

[GhettoNinja]

Top tier? not bashing on you, but he does have weaknesses. He is light, he can't approach, and he has bad range. That alone makes him out of top tier. Maybe high tier, but even with customs top tier is a stretch.

Custom kirby is absolutely deadily. Im completely aware of his weaknesses but Kirby has all the tools to win. Kirby doesn't need to approach. Kirby can avoid almost any Ranged attack there is. And if its really bad Kirby can usually steal it from his opponents. Kirby is Kirby. I can't really put how much Kirby can do, and I apologize. I know that's a cop out answers but its all I can say. Someday you'll see a really high level Kirby and you'll understand.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Custom kirby is absolutely deadily. Im completely aware of his weaknesses but Kirby has all the tools to win. Kirby doesn't need to approach. Kirby can avoid almost any Ranged attack there is. And if its really bad Kirby can usually steal it from his opponents. Kirby is Kirby. I can't really put how much Kirby can do, and I apologize. I know that's a cop out answers but its all I can say. Someday you'll see a really high level Kirby and you'll understand.

Kirby is deadly with customs, but not top tier deadly. Just really good deadly. High tier, sure. His cistom moves are not THAT good to being him to top, but high tier yes. He still can't approach, so if he is forced to he is screwed, he still lacks good range (and without good approach options, getting in is a toughy), and he is still light. All of these keep him out of the top tier realm of the best characters.

 

[AncientCode42]

Personally I don't find Kirby that bad aside from Melee where he was basically unplayable. In Smash 4 he's gotten a lot better in my opinion. He has a good combo game, very easy to use and pick up. Kirby is more or less the same as he was in Brawl to Smash 4, but with some tweaks. Kirby's biggest strength is his incredible combo and recovery game. I love his custom for Final Cutter as a finisher. And his Jump Inhale is really useful for recovery and better than default in my opinion. I mostly love how depending on the character you're facing he can copy their standard special and do great things with it. ( My favorites being Shulk, Sheik, Zelda, Mewtwo, Roy, Wii Fit Trainer and Olimar. XD)

I must say I love his Star KO scream it's the funniest one in the game and can't help but laughed when he's KO. XD

With Customs Kirby is a beast to say the least. lol He has many useful custom moves that I think help his game a lot. Kirby's combo game is just amazing. His Down Air is by far his best move, I also love using Down Smash, Down Tilt (his crouch is OP. lol) Though his weight is an issue I can look past that.

 

[GhettoNinja]

Kirby is deadly with customs, but not top tier deadly. Just really good deadly. High tier, sure. His cistom moves are not THAT good to being him to top, but high tier yes. He still can't approach, so if he is forced to he is screwed, he still lacks good range (and without good approach options, getting in is a toughy), and he is still light. All of these keep him out of the top tier realm of the best characters.

I guess you're right. My main point was never that he was high tier and I feel terrible because that's a backing out on what I said. What I simply meant was that a Custom Kirby has the tools needed to win a Major (In my opinion) so well he may not be the best I could see him (in the right hands of course) being able to win big tournemnets. I hope I cleared my statement up a bit.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I guess you're right. My main point was never that he was high tier and I feel terrible because that's a backing out on what I said. What I simply meant was that a Custom Kirby has the tools needed to win a Major (In my opinion) so well he may not be the best I could see him (in the right hands of course) being able to win big tournemnets. I hope I cleared my statement up a bit.

Definitely. Custom Kirby 100% has the chance of winning a major. That doesn't mean hes top tier. Thanks for clearing things up!

 

[t!MmY]

There are a lot of odd ideas of Kirby running around this thread.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

There are a lot of odd ideas of Kirby running around this thread.

Like how? Clear some misconceptions up. I just said he has a chance of winning a major with customs.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Top tier in Smash64, Middle Tier in Brawl. Melee's the only game where he's low tier. For Smash4.... Well, I consider him top tier, but my top tier has 13 charcters, and Kirby's at 10th...... Just say he's top-high tier, not just top tier. Anyway, he is like this because, he has GREAT air attacks, a GREAT up tilt, GREAT comboing, good Throws/Pummel, good Smash Attacks, Good recovery, good matchups, fairly good tilts (Apart with up tilt, which is great), good jab, can use other's neutral specials, and, if timed correctly, has GREAT KO power with his hammer. Customs makes him even better.

I have a 20 paragraph reasoning for why he's high, but if I post THAT nobody will read it.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Top tier in Smash64, Middle Tier in Brawl. Melee's the only game where he's low tier. For Smash4.... Well, I consider him top tier, but my top tier has 13 charcters, and Kirby's at 10th...... Just say he's top-high tier, not just top tier. Anyway, he is like this because, he has GREAT air attacks, a GREAT up tilt, GREAT comboing, good Throws/Pummel, good Smash Attacks, Good recovery, good matchups, fairly good tilts (Apart with up tilt, which is great), good jab, can use other's neutral specials, and, if timed correctly, has GREAT KO power with his hammer. Customs makes him even better.

I have a 20 paragraph reasoning for why he's high, but if I post THAT nobody will read it.

The thing is, he has no range and struggles heavily with approaches, and he is also really light. These 3 things are big, and in my (and most) people's opinions, keep him out of top tier.

Also, not being rude, but take the hammer part out. Hammer is EXTREMELY unreliable and will only be landed againt people who aren't that good, or a very hard read. It isn't a good kill move. Even stone is more reliable, and it's really unreliable.

 

[Wintermelon43]

The thing is, he has no range and struggles heavily with approaches, and he is also really light. These 3 things are big, and in my (and most) people's opinions, keep him out of top tier.

Also, not being rude, but take the hammer part out. Hammer is EXTREMELY unreliable and will only be landed againt people who aren't that good, or a very hard read. It isn't a good kill move. Even stone is more reliable, and it's really unreliable.

I've actually seen the hammer used in competitive play, and killing. Also, range is the ONLY problem, and it isn't severe enough to COMPLETY screw him over.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I havent played Smash 64 but Yea I think he seems 2nd best, maybe if he had an actual Uair he may be better?
Melee...............Too many countless flaws that no other character in smash history im sure has combined, so he is unarguably the worst.
Brawl he was pretty good, not the best, but so not the worst, a very solid character overall, so Mid-tier for sure
Sm4sh is nearly the same, hes gotten a few nerfs, but the game mechanics and the other slight buffs he has gotten, make up for it kinda, and his fantastic customs, among the best in the game right? or close, but defiantly up there W/O customs im sure hes mid-tier, with customs Upper-mid maybe in top 20?

Kirby has generally always struggled with approaches, sometimes his range, and lightness, but lightness shouldn't really be used as in issue that actually holds him back, because most top-tired characters strugglle from that.

His crouch in Sm4sh is huge, something that helps him a lot against most characters, but unfortunatly despite having great ariels, he literally never has the airspeed to compliment them :/ both Bair and Fair strings would so be possible if he had a faster air speed

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I've actually seen the hammer used in competitive play, and killing. Also, range is the ONLY problem, and it isn't severe enough to COMPLETY screw him over.

Did you read my post? He has some of the worst approach options in the game, so anyone with a non-duckable projectile (Yoshi for example) give him a really hard time.

Also, the only person who uses hammer as Kirby is TripleR, and thats in pools matches, I rarely see him use it in imprtant matches.

The reason Kirby is not top tier, is because he needs to be up close. He is a character that ONLY benfits from close range, yet his range for attacks is bad and he can't approach. His huge strength is countered by his weaknesses, which isn't a usual thing in characters. Thats why I believe he is a mid/high-mid character without customs, once he gets in he is a monster but getting in is the hardest thing for Kirby to do.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Did you read my post? He has some of the worst approach options in the game, so anyone with a non-duckable projectile (Yoshi for example) give him a really hard time.

Also, the only person who uses hammer as Kirby is TripleR, and thats in pools matches, I rarely see him use it in imprtant matches.

The reason Kirby is not top tier, is because he needs to be up close. He is a character that ONLY benfits from close range, yet his range for attacks is bad and he can't approach. His huge strength is countered by his weaknesses, which isn't a usual thing in characters. Thats why I believe he is a mid/high-mid character without customs, once he gets in he is a monster but getting in is the hardest thing for Kirby to do.

I know he has bad approach. A lot of the "A" tiers have ONE flaw that removes them from S tier. That's his approach. You can still attack well with him though, that's the only problem, and it's way less worse than how people act like it is.

 

[Dessa]

Kirby has more than one flaw. Poor air and ground speed and an abusable recovery aren't nothing.

The thing about Kirby is that he's good against a lot of characters who are good against a lot of other ones. He has the tools to handle Shiek, and ZSS and a few other high-tier characters very well. But then he gets eaten alive by others, like Luigi and Sonic. An incredible player like MikeKirby shows how it can be done, but it's more work than true top-tier characters have to put in.

Kirby is underrated. He's definitely not low tier because his boons are good and numerous. But top-tier? Nah.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Kirby has more than one flaw. Poor air and ground speed and an abusable recovery aren't nothing.

The thing about Kirby is that he's good against a lot of characters who are good against a lot of other ones. He has the tools to handle Shiek, and ZSS and a few other high-tier characters very well. But then he gets eaten alive by others, like Luigi and Sonic. An incredible player like MikeKirby shows how it can be done, but it's more work than true top-tier characters have to put in.

Kirby is underrated. He's definitely not low tier because his boons are good and numerous. But top-tier? Nah.

Well, as I said, if you made my tiers in order of your tiers, but kept the characters at the same numbers, it would most likely place Kirby in high tier. Also, his matchup aganist Luigi isn't even that bad. Disadvanategous, obvisualy, but not worse than 45:55

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I know he has bad approach. A lot of the "A" tiers have ONE flaw that removes them from S tier. That's his approach. You can still attack well with him though, that's the only problem, and it's way less worse than how people act like it is.

It is worse than you think it is. His air speed is garbage, all of his aerials are really punishable on shield, his run speed isn't the greatest, his dash attack is garbage for aproaching. The only thing that helps him is his dash grab, but he has no followups for it (basically none, b-throw b-air/u-air). All of A have a weakness that keep them out of top tier, but their weakness doesn't insult their own strength. Thats Kirby.

Kirby is a character that is really good up close, but struggles with approaching and range. He doesn't have the approach options to get in himself, and he doesn't have the range either. Kirby isn't even high tier, as he has no machups above 60:40 but he has a couple 70"30/ 65:35s (Yoshi, Pika). He ain't high tier as of now

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

It is worse than you think it is. His air speed is garbage, all of his aerials are really punishable on shield, his run speed isn't the greatest, his dash attack is garbage for aproaching. The only thing that helps him is his dash grab, but he has no followups for it (basically none, b-throw b-air/u-air). All of A have a weakness that keep them out of top tier, but their weakness doesn't insult their own strength. Thats Kirby.

Kirby is a character that is really good up close, but struggles with approaching and range. He doesn't have the approach options to get in himself, and he doesn't have the range either. Kirby isn't even high tier, as he has no machups above 60:40 but he has a couple 70"30/ 65:35s (Yoshi, Pika). He ain't high tier as of now

I'm sure he has no 70:30 MU and even if he had a 65:35 I doubt Pika would be one of them, it's not as bad as it seems.


I know his approach sucks, but the general nerfs to projectiles in this game makes it slightly less difficult to approach, it's bad, but not THAT bad, with customs he may have some 65:35 MU in his favor, but without them he would have like 2 or 1 if any

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I'm sure he has no 70:30 MU and even if he had a 65:35 I doubt Pika would be one of them, it's not as bad as it seems.


I know his approach sucks, but the general nerfs to projectiles in this game makes it slightly less difficult to approach, it's bad, but not THAT bad, with customs he may have some 65:35 MU in his favor, but without them he would have like 2 or 1 if any

Pika is debatable but Yoshi I would say is 70:30. I'm not saying Kirby is bad, but high/top tier without customs is a stretch.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Pika is debatable but Yoshi I would say is 70:30. I'm not saying Kirby is bad, but high/top tier without customs is a stretch.

True, if anything he needs a better air speed, 4th slowest is just plain dumb :/ he has good Ariel's, but his air speed can hold back their usefulness

 

[Wintermelon43]

It is worse than you think it is. His air speed is garbage, all of his aerials are really punishable on shield, his run speed isn't the greatest, his dash attack is garbage for aproaching. The only thing that helps him is his dash grab, but he has no followups for it (basically none, b-throw b-air/u-air). All of A have a weakness that keep them out of top tier, but their weakness doesn't insult their own strength. Thats Kirby.

Kirby is a character that is really good up close, but struggles with approaching and range. He doesn't have the approach options to get in himself, and he doesn't have the range either. Kirby isn't even high tier, as he has no machups above 60:40 but he has a couple 70"30/ 65:35s (Yoshi, Pika). He ain't high tier as of now

Lol he doesn't have 65:35s I think (Except for maybe Sonic and Yoshi, but that's maybe.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Lol he doesn't have 65:35s I think (Except for maybe Sonic and Yoshi, but that's maybe.

Yoshi is 35:65 at best, but I don't think Sonic is too bad, but def not in Kirby's favour. I could say Luigi could be plain bad too, but our only 30:70 MU is prob against Yoshi.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Yoshi is 35:65 at best, but I don't think Sonic is too bad, but def not in Kirby's favour. I could say Luigi could be plain bad too, but our only 30:70 MU is prob against Yoshi.

Well, I havn't fought a good Yoshi in awhile, but I will admit that Yoshi could be 35:75. Luigi's probably 45:55 too, lol.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Well, I havn't fought a good Yoshi in awhile, but I will admit that Yoshi could be 35:75. Luigi's probably 45:55 too, lol.

I face some good Yoshi's and its a pain, in game and on paper. Just plain bad lol. Luigi is debatable, but i find it 35:65/40:60, since Luigi is floaty (basically hard to combo), a recovery that our d-air doesn't decimate, outranges us, has just as bad airspeed. I can really only see escaping his combos easily as our big yay in this MU. prob 40:60.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Eh..... It isn't that hard tbh, I think people act like it's harder than it is,

 

[breadstick24]

Lol he doesn't have 65:35s I think (Except for maybe Sonic and Yoshi, but that's maybe.

And what about Palutena? As far as harsh matches go I would have thought she'd top this list (though you're all correct about Yoshi being a pain in the neck). Something in the palutena matchup I haven't figured out yet that skews it in Kirby's favor? Enough that it isn't the 70:30 I feel it should be?

 

[Asdioh]

Uhhh hi, you'll have to explain why you think Palutena beats Kirby that badly. Is this with customs ON or OFF? In customs OFF, Palutena's usually considered a pretty weak character, and I don't see how she beats Kirby that badly. Most of her moves are slow and predictable. The biggest thing to watch out for is that you need to shield her Bair and Dash Attack, and then punish them. Those moves have invincibility, so you'll never beat them with an attack. The matchup's probably close to 50:50.

 

[Pixel_]

Should we rename this thread to tier list and matchup discussion?

 

[breadstick24]

Uhhh hi, you'll have to explain why you think Palutena beats Kirby that badly. Is this with customs ON or OFF? In customs OFF, Palutena's usually considered a pretty weak character, and I don't see how she beats Kirby that badly. Most of her moves are slow and predictable. The biggest thing to watch out for is that you need to shield her Bair and Dash Attack, and then punish them. Those moves have invincibility, so you'll never beat them with an attack. The matchup's probably close to 50:50.

Customs on. My problem is I can't approach. She's got so much range, f-tilt blocks most options. F-smash pushes you back and any time I get anywhere close the reflector comes out and shoves me away. Kirby just doesn't move quickly enough. Once you get any hits on Palutena it's wonderful because of Kirby's close up game. But getting to her, that's where I have trouble.
*edit* Been watching a few videos and now I've got the Palutena match licked. Essentially I was too predictable and aggressive. Just got to space right and make proper reads. Thanks

 

[Jaroking]

Main issue I have with kirby is the pros know where I am going, what i am trying. and know the best way to Di etc away from my combos. Also when they hit hard it can kill me really early :/ I have trained with some top players and never do I not get wrekked lol

 

[TimG57867]

Honestly, with the right buffs, Kirby could easily become high tier material (stronger Up Throw, quicker Up B with the projectile regaining its former range or more, quicker smashes, etc). The question is if we'll get what we need. Kirby's made considerable progress, but still has the ways to go before he truly surpasses his Brawl incarnation.

But that aside, I also believe Kirby is a greatly underrated mid tier. I can only hope with these buffs and more, people like Mike Kirby will really start to push the pink puff's meta.