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Right from the moment I began lurking this boards, I was always boggled when peopled here said that Kirby has "great" frame data, and this confirmed my suspicions. I mean seriously. Frame 10 N-Air? Frame 14 Up Smash? Frame 18 D-Air. Frame TWENTY THREE FINAL CUTTER !?!?! For such a combo-heavy character, Kirby's frame data is pretty subpar. Out of all the combo heavy characters of his range class, I think only has worse frame data, and even then, he has better range and air speed to compensate. Given his size and mobility, there's NO reason the frame data on all of Kirby's moves should be this mediocre. I am telling you if his all round frame data fell more in line with (who also has bad mobility I might add) he'd be SOOO much better (that along with a strong Up Throw and better ranged Final Cutter).3 frame 10 aerials and a frame 18 d-air... Kirbys frame data is worse than I thought.
This is mainly to account for rage. Kirby's smash attacks are rage monsters. Too bad Kirby is too light to make use of it.Kirby's frame data is nearly 90% exactly like it was in Brawl like I thought it was. It's nothing surprising. I knew what I was practically working with. Nerfed 13 frame F-smash and KBG of U-throw make me cry, though...
You could be Zelda. Hers has an FAF of 64 and probably has less range.U-Smash has the same endlag as Mario's.
What is life ;_;
You were pretty much spot on with everything, but does Mario's u-smash really do 15.68% damage? I just checked, and Doc's u-smash has the same exact value on KuroganeHammer, and all of Doc's attacks do decimal damage, coincidentally. I remember practicing with Mario on training mode and his u-smash does 14% I believe actually.I was gonna say that they're different in multiple ways, but since you made me look... Mario's FAF (first actable frame) is 40, while Kirby's is 48. So he has an 8 frame advantage there. If you subtract the last active frame of the hitbox (19 for Kirby, 12 for Mario) from their FAFs, Mario actually has a 1 frame advantage, so if that's what you meant by same endlag, you were off by one frame, Mario's is actually one frame safer!
But wait, there's more: when considering frame safety on shield, you need to take into account what frame the move hits their shield, what the FAF is, and how much damage the move does, since more damage generally = more shieldstun/pushback. There's also "hitlag modifier" but I don't know much about that. Mario's Upsmash hits frames 9-12, so it's active for 4 frames, and Kirby's hits 14-19, so it's active for 6 frames. If you're hitting someone's shield with your Upsmash, you're most likely hitting with the first possible frame, so 9 for Mario, 14 for Kirby. 40-9=31 for Mario, 48-14=34 for Kirby. So that's 3 frames more shield advantage. Plus, Mario's Upsmash does .68% more damage, apparently, so that adds even more to its safety on shield. Oh, and to add video games to the cake, Mario's Upsmash does not have a sweet/sourspot, so if he hits you with it, it'll be consistently strong. Kirby's strong hit of Upsmash is only active for one frame, and then it gets a weaker hit for 2 frames, and then an even weaker hit for the remaining 3 frames.
But hey, Mario's Upsmash is absurdly good, and everybody already knows that. At least Kirby has invincibility on the Upsmash just like Mario does, and it's technically stronger at KOing when sweetspotted. It has a slightly different knockback angle though, so I'm not sure how that affects it. There's also the difference in range/hitbox between the smashes, though I'm not sure which is better than which in that regard.
On the bright side! All 3 of our tilts are better than his, in terms of startup, FAF, probably hitbox size, and general goodness.
I was thinking more like Jiggs, but there's also Zelda I guess.You could be Zelda. Hers has an FAF of 64 and probably has less range.
It's called the autolink angle. Basically it knocks people in the direction Kirby is moving.Finally! Been waiting for these, haha.
Nothing really surprising here, but a quick question.
When an attack has an angle of 366 is something like the Sakurai angle going on there or is it just an angle of 6? Examples of this are on Fair (Hit 2) and Dair (Hits 1-5).
Might be a better question for the mechanics thread but would love to know if anyone can give me a quick answer.
Thanks!
Kirby's frame data is all relative: it could be seen as okay by itself 'in a vaccuum', but when you compare it to the 'good' characters (the best in the game) it is unfortunately lacking. All of Kirby's moves are lacking in more than just speed and frame data - there are a lot more to each move than just speed and FAF's, and Kirby is lacking in those areas as well ... at least to be considered 'Top Tier'....what do you think about his Frame data? So you think it's ok or are some areas lacking in speed?
There's no moderators on this forumYou know, many character boards have KuroganeHammer's frame data threads stickied at the top. Perhaps we should do the same?
Ok. How would I contact them?There are super moderators tho. If you want something stuck, try reporting the main post requesting a sticky.