Oracle Link
Smash Master
So this Thread will mostly revolve arround this post and will Hopefully updated Regulary its quiete an unusual post its neither Fun nor is it Disscusion instead its a Explanation of why i think both the Kirby and Sonic fandoms (which im part of) Act the way they do!
Eventho this thread isnt about disscusions you can still engage with it by asking questions or other things!
I also think my own situation is similar to this but yeah i wont bore you with that if youre interested i could tell you about this in another post tho!
First lets go over terminology:
Fans/ Fanbase: So what do i define as a fan? does he have to play any games in a certain way? does he need to love every game? No!
But he needs to be Engaged a lot in vthe Franchise for example i only played the Following Kirby Games: Kirby SSU, RTDL,K64, RC, SA,Kf2b,SKC and TD But i know every mainline game completly and am really engaged so im a fan and fanbase is basically just all of the Fans Together!
Fans Light: So you might think im Gatekeeping and yes i am but not the way you think why is fatekeeping a thing in the first place? To keep Non Fans from making a thing something that fans dont like! I mean i wont go into politics but So Star Wars was beloved multiple people that were not fans of it wanted it changed so that they like it! that resulted in fans BEING alienated (sound familiar) Than someone WHO IS A FAN/ Trys to make FANS happy (dave filoni)got in charge and now star wars i beloved again! the reason why gatekeeping is disliked is because most people are not Fans (as defined Above) but you what? They engage healthy with the Franchise and like what it is! But they are just not engahed enough to be full fans! So about They are FANS LIGHT! (or Tiny fans or mini Fans i dont know if fans light sounds good?)
Critic: So this word is the most difficult to explain what do i mean by critc? Im not 100% sure its more of a feeling but i try my best Anyways!
So its not about criticizing something! For Example Lets look at yeah Arlo! Hes NOT A CRITC does this mean i think he gets kirby fully or that he is right suggesting giving Link a Gun? NOOOO! But he for example recognizes some things and is not too Biased! (And he is a papermario fan so hes completly in the right with most paper mario stuff)
He for example Does not think Kirby SA is BAD (yeah he gave it a 4 but thst at msot decent in his ratings) but he isnt that meanspirited towrds the Fanbase (which is a big Part in being a critic) nor does he demand that the Franchise Gets Drastically changed instead he wants a higher Quality (which true im not sure if he demands Kirby FL to be openworld but yeah!) So if arlo isnt a critic who is? Easy (also if youre a fan their Videos are bad but in a hilarious way their so ignorant yeah) Fanatix Four i yesterday decided like is sometimes do to watch something that i know ill dislike/ disagree with and they are the main raeson why i am Making this thread so just watch any kirby video of them and you know what i mean by "Critic"
So lets talk about Sonic Fans first
Lets first adress the Reason why sonic fans are worse than Kirby Fans!
You might think Porn has anything to do with it but NO????? i mean obviously Sonic Chars get more porn Drawn of them than chars of Kirby i mean aside from Susie, The mage sisters, Sectonia there are like 0 even slightly Sexualixed kirby chars while sonic has Rouge anyways lets move on!
The Biggest/ Real Reason is Kirby has 2 things that Sonic Doesnt! Consistency and Developers who get Kirby and make Games the please the Fanbase!
And im not talking about Classic sonic fans (to be speaking the truth there is not enough material easly available anymore cus of the higher Quality of Sonic fans in recent Years nor will i talk about CWC (who had mental Problems and was bullied so hard that He/SHe Broke and He/she was bullied by everyone not just sonic fans so yeah) and nor will i Talk about sammy classic sonic fan because first he Was a Child and second again the bullying was most likely done by everyone! Lets be honest these people are Not represntative of a Larger fandom and if you look at most current sonic youtubers they are pretty civil!
So what the problem then why are so many people complaining right now isnt sonic higher quality than during 06? YES but most new Sonic material is not the same anymore! You might say but isnt adventure (and other 3d/dark age games) not like sonic too? Its is but let me explain what sonic is:
Hes Cool!
Hes Daring!
Hes a Good and Kind Character!
His Games Broke Ground!
His Games are difficult!
And he was always supposed to be a more mature Mario!
All these things apply to most sonic Games:
Sonic 1-3+k, Cd and Chaotix
3d Blast, r and other weird games
Adventure 1+2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed Generations (gameplay wise) and thats it for the Most part!
All these Games Are "Sonic" are all of them objectivly good? NO! can they all be fun at times atleast YES!
You might say a Dark Story, Complex Gameplay or A sword arent Sonic! but lets look at some of these things:
Dark story since sonic 1 sonic had darker elements just llok at the final world its much darker and has bigger tension than most mario games! (exept for much newer 3d Ones and World and Rpgs) and this trend continues in all classic sonic games!
And you might think Sonic story could do unfitting Things like Humans but pre Colors/Sonic 4 the Sonics World was Really Consistent the Main Problem came from the fact that the us had a Diffrent Stoty than the original Japanese one!
You might also say that certain gimmick dont fit but aside from shadows gun (which was requested by sonic fans they were just to young to know better) most gimmicks atleast fit tonally into the world and almost all of them are Fun!
So why Do sonic fans Fight so much! The Problem lies in the fact That Sonic has done so many Diffrent Things in the mainline Games! And if you look Closely at Any other Big Fandom including Smash, Dragonball, Zelda, Mario and others too! There si always a vocal devide this devide grows if certain Sections of the fandom a too Often ignored or not Served! (for example open world mario fans were unhappy and loud because of the lack of it! as soon as Odyesey was announced the fandom calmed down again!)
The same is more extreme in sonics case! You might say "then just do less things!" this is not the Solution to explain to you the current Problem!
There are 3 Big Groups:
Classic
Boost
Adventure!
And Obviously classic fans got what they wanted (for the most part) Because A fan made Mania
So you might say where do the Critics fit in? right here after sega (who have alot of Blame too!) made some Games with Bad Quality Control and Rushed SChedules a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of critics Critizied the game! You might say thats a good thing! But remember what i said about them
THEY ARE NOT FANS (i really need to rewrite the critics section) So lets look at there main complaints:
Its unbeatable because of Glitches!
It has to many Friends!
This story is stupid and far to dark for sonic!
Stupid Humans!
It bad since 3d!
So obviously (especialy because a lot of them where official) Sega listend exactly to them! lets look at some games released after this:
Sonic and the secret Rings, Sonic 4, Unleahshed, black knight and colors!
So sonic aand the Secret Rings was unaffected by this (because it was deveolped at the same time) yes it didnt have other characters but thats because all chars asside from sponic were diffrent people and the game also was crunched!
So as seen with sonic unleashed they seem to now avoid other character a lot the second Gameplay style was also a sonic, the story (while still being sonic) was of a much lighter tone, The humans were Redesigned to be more cartoony and sega used a more 2d approach! (you might wonder why people look positivyl at unleashed now its beacuse sega while learning some wrong lessons still did a lot of things right and also delivered a high quality game! i mean the boost is daring and cool! and the story is amzing too!
This game was torn to shreds again! (to be fair im not saure how many fans were involved but if i google this game i either get critics or a new video so if you know how i can look this up please help!)
Then sonic and the Black knight came out! This game shows that Sega seems to have wrongly learned that HUMAN= BAD all humans are elvish eventho this game is heavily based on the Arthur legend! To be fair the reason could also be that you can scare "humans" away by slicing at them so Sega is alraedy slightly progressed into their toxic Mindset! i mean the other chars are only playable in 4 levels (and bonus stuff) and all have the sonic Gameplay style (which is even closer than tails and knuckles where in 3k) But again this was on a edge!
The Critics got mad! Sonic Sword was yelled and peoplre who obviously dont get sonic Like Arin hamson from game grumps were the loudest ones!
Sonic 4 was then made to apease the critics it has no other chracters, is 2d, has no humans, has mechanics so simple as to avoid glitches, recycles the Story of sonic 1 +2 in even simpler!
The Critics loved it! and also Classic sonic fans why? Because its good or is acuarate? No its because if they didnt have Handhelds they didnt play a 2d sonic game in YEARS! And a lot of good things like Spin Post, Capsules and Badniks were not used for years!
After this Sega Broke the games they wanted to make and tha a lot of fans loved/ now love again its hard! were "hated" while the pandering Games were loved! That resulted in ALL other Descions of Sega being Pandering to (mostly Critics) while ignoring their Fans!
So where does the title Fit in? So many Sonic Fans were told for years that games they enjoyed were "BAD" because the Critics Crtiqued something they didnt understand, Didnt want to understand or liked!
And because a lot of people dont get sonic the fanbase started getting Defensive and loud too in the hopes of being heard!
Again i might have gone off Topic and its too long at times (also the critic section needs restructering)
Next ill do kirby (i do the cleanup later) Keep in mind that kirby fans are diffrent from sonic in many ways and are less """""Toxic""""" vut they are both Misunderstood and defensive!
Eventho this thread isnt about disscusions you can still engage with it by asking questions or other things!
I also think my own situation is similar to this but yeah i wont bore you with that if youre interested i could tell you about this in another post tho!
First lets go over terminology:
Fans/ Fanbase: So what do i define as a fan? does he have to play any games in a certain way? does he need to love every game? No!
But he needs to be Engaged a lot in vthe Franchise for example i only played the Following Kirby Games: Kirby SSU, RTDL,K64, RC, SA,Kf2b,SKC and TD But i know every mainline game completly and am really engaged so im a fan and fanbase is basically just all of the Fans Together!
Fans Light: So you might think im Gatekeeping and yes i am but not the way you think why is fatekeeping a thing in the first place? To keep Non Fans from making a thing something that fans dont like! I mean i wont go into politics but So Star Wars was beloved multiple people that were not fans of it wanted it changed so that they like it! that resulted in fans BEING alienated (sound familiar) Than someone WHO IS A FAN/ Trys to make FANS happy (dave filoni)got in charge and now star wars i beloved again! the reason why gatekeeping is disliked is because most people are not Fans (as defined Above) but you what? They engage healthy with the Franchise and like what it is! But they are just not engahed enough to be full fans! So about They are FANS LIGHT! (or Tiny fans or mini Fans i dont know if fans light sounds good?)
Critic: So this word is the most difficult to explain what do i mean by critc? Im not 100% sure its more of a feeling but i try my best Anyways!
So its not about criticizing something! For Example Lets look at yeah Arlo! Hes NOT A CRITC does this mean i think he gets kirby fully or that he is right suggesting giving Link a Gun? NOOOO! But he for example recognizes some things and is not too Biased! (And he is a papermario fan so hes completly in the right with most paper mario stuff)
He for example Does not think Kirby SA is BAD (yeah he gave it a 4 but thst at msot decent in his ratings) but he isnt that meanspirited towrds the Fanbase (which is a big Part in being a critic) nor does he demand that the Franchise Gets Drastically changed instead he wants a higher Quality (which true im not sure if he demands Kirby FL to be openworld but yeah!) So if arlo isnt a critic who is? Easy (also if youre a fan their Videos are bad but in a hilarious way their so ignorant yeah) Fanatix Four i yesterday decided like is sometimes do to watch something that i know ill dislike/ disagree with and they are the main raeson why i am Making this thread so just watch any kirby video of them and you know what i mean by "Critic"
So lets talk about Sonic Fans first
Lets first adress the Reason why sonic fans are worse than Kirby Fans!
You might think Porn has anything to do with it but NO????? i mean obviously Sonic Chars get more porn Drawn of them than chars of Kirby i mean aside from Susie, The mage sisters, Sectonia there are like 0 even slightly Sexualixed kirby chars while sonic has Rouge anyways lets move on!
The Biggest/ Real Reason is Kirby has 2 things that Sonic Doesnt! Consistency and Developers who get Kirby and make Games the please the Fanbase!
And im not talking about Classic sonic fans (to be speaking the truth there is not enough material easly available anymore cus of the higher Quality of Sonic fans in recent Years nor will i talk about CWC (who had mental Problems and was bullied so hard that He/SHe Broke and He/she was bullied by everyone not just sonic fans so yeah) and nor will i Talk about sammy classic sonic fan because first he Was a Child and second again the bullying was most likely done by everyone! Lets be honest these people are Not represntative of a Larger fandom and if you look at most current sonic youtubers they are pretty civil!
So what the problem then why are so many people complaining right now isnt sonic higher quality than during 06? YES but most new Sonic material is not the same anymore! You might say but isnt adventure (and other 3d/dark age games) not like sonic too? Its is but let me explain what sonic is:
Hes Cool!
Hes Daring!
Hes a Good and Kind Character!
His Games Broke Ground!
His Games are difficult!
And he was always supposed to be a more mature Mario!
All these things apply to most sonic Games:
Sonic 1-3+k, Cd and Chaotix
3d Blast, r and other weird games
Adventure 1+2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed Generations (gameplay wise) and thats it for the Most part!
All these Games Are "Sonic" are all of them objectivly good? NO! can they all be fun at times atleast YES!
You might say a Dark Story, Complex Gameplay or A sword arent Sonic! but lets look at some of these things:
Dark story since sonic 1 sonic had darker elements just llok at the final world its much darker and has bigger tension than most mario games! (exept for much newer 3d Ones and World and Rpgs) and this trend continues in all classic sonic games!
And you might think Sonic story could do unfitting Things like Humans but pre Colors/Sonic 4 the Sonics World was Really Consistent the Main Problem came from the fact that the us had a Diffrent Stoty than the original Japanese one!
You might also say that certain gimmick dont fit but aside from shadows gun (which was requested by sonic fans they were just to young to know better) most gimmicks atleast fit tonally into the world and almost all of them are Fun!
So why Do sonic fans Fight so much! The Problem lies in the fact That Sonic has done so many Diffrent Things in the mainline Games! And if you look Closely at Any other Big Fandom including Smash, Dragonball, Zelda, Mario and others too! There si always a vocal devide this devide grows if certain Sections of the fandom a too Often ignored or not Served! (for example open world mario fans were unhappy and loud because of the lack of it! as soon as Odyesey was announced the fandom calmed down again!)
The same is more extreme in sonics case! You might say "then just do less things!" this is not the Solution to explain to you the current Problem!
There are 3 Big Groups:
Classic
Boost
Adventure!
And Obviously classic fans got what they wanted (for the most part) Because A fan made Mania
So you might say where do the Critics fit in? right here after sega (who have alot of Blame too!) made some Games with Bad Quality Control and Rushed SChedules a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of critics Critizied the game! You might say thats a good thing! But remember what i said about them
THEY ARE NOT FANS (i really need to rewrite the critics section) So lets look at there main complaints:
Its unbeatable because of Glitches!
It has to many Friends!
This story is stupid and far to dark for sonic!
Stupid Humans!
It bad since 3d!
So obviously (especialy because a lot of them where official) Sega listend exactly to them! lets look at some games released after this:
Sonic and the secret Rings, Sonic 4, Unleahshed, black knight and colors!
So sonic aand the Secret Rings was unaffected by this (because it was deveolped at the same time) yes it didnt have other characters but thats because all chars asside from sponic were diffrent people and the game also was crunched!
So as seen with sonic unleashed they seem to now avoid other character a lot the second Gameplay style was also a sonic, the story (while still being sonic) was of a much lighter tone, The humans were Redesigned to be more cartoony and sega used a more 2d approach! (you might wonder why people look positivyl at unleashed now its beacuse sega while learning some wrong lessons still did a lot of things right and also delivered a high quality game! i mean the boost is daring and cool! and the story is amzing too!
This game was torn to shreds again! (to be fair im not saure how many fans were involved but if i google this game i either get critics or a new video so if you know how i can look this up please help!)
Then sonic and the Black knight came out! This game shows that Sega seems to have wrongly learned that HUMAN= BAD all humans are elvish eventho this game is heavily based on the Arthur legend! To be fair the reason could also be that you can scare "humans" away by slicing at them so Sega is alraedy slightly progressed into their toxic Mindset! i mean the other chars are only playable in 4 levels (and bonus stuff) and all have the sonic Gameplay style (which is even closer than tails and knuckles where in 3k) But again this was on a edge!
The Critics got mad! Sonic Sword was yelled and peoplre who obviously dont get sonic Like Arin hamson from game grumps were the loudest ones!
Sonic 4 was then made to apease the critics it has no other chracters, is 2d, has no humans, has mechanics so simple as to avoid glitches, recycles the Story of sonic 1 +2 in even simpler!
The Critics loved it! and also Classic sonic fans why? Because its good or is acuarate? No its because if they didnt have Handhelds they didnt play a 2d sonic game in YEARS! And a lot of good things like Spin Post, Capsules and Badniks were not used for years!
After this Sega Broke the games they wanted to make and tha a lot of fans loved/ now love again its hard! were "hated" while the pandering Games were loved! That resulted in ALL other Descions of Sega being Pandering to (mostly Critics) while ignoring their Fans!
So where does the title Fit in? So many Sonic Fans were told for years that games they enjoyed were "BAD" because the Critics Crtiqued something they didnt understand, Didnt want to understand or liked!
And because a lot of people dont get sonic the fanbase started getting Defensive and loud too in the hopes of being heard!
Again i might have gone off Topic and its too long at times (also the critic section needs restructering)
Next ill do kirby (i do the cleanup later) Keep in mind that kirby fans are diffrent from sonic in many ways and are less """""Toxic""""" vut they are both Misunderstood and defensive!
Last edited:
