Kinzer
Mammy
Okay so I find myself having to come to the Ike thread frequently for help, so instead of making multiple threads for different questions, I'll just update a lot with this one.
Uhm...well, I want to go over the previous questions I have covered in my threads...Call it a battle log if you will, I will constantly update this thread with mostly advice request from others...other times I might just be here to post anything I will consider useful information
"I have had trouble with jigglypuff, please help me"
"Pikmin and annoying = one slavedriver I can kill to liberate the slaves"
let's see now I have a lot of people I seem to be having a bit of trouble with, but I figure maybe I ain't the only Ike out there but even so...
My biggest problem as of when this post was made... is Link/TL, R.O.B. and Snake.
Jigglypuff- For Jigglypuff people have told me to wait for Jigglypuff, play a patient game, groundstalk, predict where and when jiggly will land/attack, if you have any more advice about this character please post your 2 cents and I will add that information here.
Olimar- People have told me to approach from the air, trying a ground approach is asking for a pimin toss/ranged grab/ ftilt. people have also told me to sometimes lach pikmin onto me on purpose so I can counter whenever I felt so. still could use a little bit mroe advice than that, I have yet to fight another good olimar after I made a request on how to beat the guy, but I still feel limited.
Snake- I seem to have trouble beating Snake (who doesn't?) he will mortar slide to get to me, he plants mines and C4s which make it rather difficult to approach him from the ground, his air attacks are very powerful and so is his ftilt. Not too sure on what else makes it impossible to win but I am pretty sure everybody who doesn't adore Snake hates this guy about as much as I do for the reasons said and others for their own and can still tell me some ways to help me defeat this formidable opponent.
Curtiousy of Tenki, and if I am interpreting him right, you have you play a defensive game vs snake, and try and use his weapons to your advantage.
R.O.B. - If I can't kill this guy early, I have to do it post 175% damage, his recovery is great, and if he doesn't die when I send him flying, he will come back which leads to his survivability. he has his lazer eyes and his beyblade, making me play a somewhat more aggresive game, or at least trying to stale a bad idea. I find myself using eruption more just because it has scored me some kills on this robot, not sure if it could be emphasized more than just on the edge. I dunno how but my grab game is near impossible to do because his rolls are fast and spotdodges are instant to me. compared to Ike, R.O.B.'s smashes come out faster and have a considerable knockback to boot. His airgame is pretty great, does decent damage and has range, I feel the only way to get around this is to read my opponent and predict when he/she will try to hit me in the air and counter it, either that or space my fairs rights.
Ganodorf - I can't shield through his Side-Bs, but yeah that's expected sicne it's kind of a grabbing move. Either in the Air or from the ground, when Ganon does throw me down with his Side-B, it is not recommended to try a "wake-up" attack, and somehow he reads where I am going to roll to and he just Dairs me. He'll powershield my quickdraws and punish me for it. Don't get me started on trying to edgehog the guy, he'll either suicide side-b when he hast he advantage, or just up-b me and damage me, but maybe I am not not getting my dairs out at the right time, or does his up-b have priority over that? Now I am convinced that his uptilt has a use, I was going around one topic discussing what was the most useless move, people were saying it was his uptilt, and now that I have seen it in action those people have never fought this Ganon. It actually pulls you in sort of, it can hit you while you are grabbing the ledge, and has one helluva disjointed hitbox. Oh gosh what else was there when I was brawling this guy? Oh yeah at low percantages his downtilt can juggle me. And I think that's about it, if there was anything else, maybe somebody who has experience fighting Ganon can cover that for me.
Agai thansk to Tenki for telling me that to counter Ganon you have to play him like you are trying to play chess. That is, , read him, attack when you see/know there is going to be an opening, and punish his mistakes just as he can punish you for yours.
Link- I am going to seperate link and Toon Link here because they are a bit different but I till have trouble with both nonetheless, however for things that I have trouble with both characters will go with link. For both Link and Toon Link their arrows can go quite a way, so again trying to stale and play defensively is not a good idea, however it could be done due to the loading time for a fully charged arrow. Trying to gimp either in recovery almost never works for me, I am not sure if I am doing it wrong or Link/T.L.'s up-b just outprioritizes most of my aerial attacks...maybe I am not using Eruption enough but I will have to test this when I do get one of them to fight again...I don't know how they do it but a lot of their kills come from their Dsmash, a little bit more from their Fsmash, and a couple of times their Usmash, I am not too sure how to dim this down so any advice here would be appreciated. For Link I can't use the Gale Boomerang to my advantage when I can, Link will always somehow beat me to it, again any advice here would eb appreciated. another thing I want to go over with teh both of them is that their Dair can kill pretty easily, countering this is no good because they can just come back on the recoil and hit me when counter is down. Both their Uairs outprioritize my dair, so I find myself just going over to teh edge just to avoid being star-KOed, need help here as well...
Toon Link- everything has already been mentioned above for T.Link except his Bair, just like Ike's it comes out very fast, and has very good knockback, the difference though is he can spam it again where Ike has a bit of ending lag after his bair, help?
Curtiousy of Ussi, some of Ike's attacks have the same priority, so if you time it especially right, you can eat his boomerang/arrows and a ground approach is now viable again.
Sonic (this is quoted from Tenki on how to fight him for I am of no help in this situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW_Dark Link
How about Sonic? I believe u would utilize Quick Draw
"Nah, not exactly a good idea. All it would take is for the Sonic player to run forward and bait your QD, shield the hit and you'll be open for a grab, and grabs aren't a fun position to be in when you're against Sonic.
Stick to jabs and your faster moves.
This isn't a matchup to be sloppy with, and I believe it's a disadvantage for Ike because to win, you'll have to take advantage of 'player habits' (universal things like habits from ledge, airdodges, rolls, shield patterns).
In other words, you'll have to be a bit mindgame-intensive and bait certain reactions, as well as play defensively.
For example, if you nail him with retreating F-air a few times, he'll probably start airdodging when he gets in range of your F-air when approaching from the air, and you can switch to a delayed aerial or FF+usmash/u-tilt/etc
Keep in mind that his spindashes are cancellable before he starts them, and he can jump to get out of the roll at any time, so he has very little 'commitment' to the moves. If the Sonic is trying to do grounded spindash to attack you, run away. Yes, use Ike's speed to run away from Sonic's spindash... and pivot grab. It's a very rarely used move, but if the Sonic player really has it in mind to hit you with a grounded spindash, he'll be less mentally prepared to jump if he's trying to chase you. Ike's pivot grab is rather fast, too ;d
Some Sonic players (like myself) are fond of charging down-B in midair. If you can, try to nail Sonic while he's charging it (it looks like a complete circle as it's charging). This is because the Sonic player is holding [down] during the charge. He's essentially doing downwards DI so if you hit him while he's charging, he's essentially making it easier to kill him.
Aether from the edge is good. Sometimes. Other times, it will make you hate Ike's recovery, and this matchup is one of those.
If you do a low Aether, it's not too hard for Sonic to jump over Ragnell's range and drop a spring to knock you under the stage (death if you're playing on levels with lips like FD), or knock you further away so you're forced to go for the edge and get edgehogged. Or just knock you too far to recover. If you're in range for an uncharged quickdraw to land on the stage, try to use it, so you avoid hanging from the edge (or having to land Aether on the stage - landing lag will hurt you).
Overall, watch out for your:
Landing lag (prepare to respond to an attempted grab if you're landing with an aerial)
Roll patterns (don roll)
Ledge patterns"
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Yeah as you can see I need a lot of improvement with my Ike, if it helps I play with the Wiimote on its own and I have only played onlnie matches so far, of course with none-minimal lag, if you come here to spam stuff like "you suck, wifi is for noobs, learn to play with the gamecube controller" you are:
1. A jerk
2. An idiot
3. not willing to try GOOD wifi battles, yes you will lag with some people but it is possible to get lagfree matches there
4. A troll
5. an ignorant ***
6 and soforth. anything else you can think of that makes you look like a *****
I come to these forums to seek advice/have fun playing what I do competitively, not to get flamed for my choices, you want to do that crap take it somewhere else.
Thank you in advance for any aid you bring to help me improve my Ike and maybe someday I will be good enough to be the best Ike anybody has ever seen.
this is just a roguh draft of how to beat the specified character, if you want the real deal from the people who posted look around in this thread, what I am giving you here is just a quickway to gain an edge.
Uhm...well, I want to go over the previous questions I have covered in my threads...Call it a battle log if you will, I will constantly update this thread with mostly advice request from others...other times I might just be here to post anything I will consider useful information
"I have had trouble with jigglypuff, please help me"
"Pikmin and annoying = one slavedriver I can kill to liberate the slaves"
let's see now I have a lot of people I seem to be having a bit of trouble with, but I figure maybe I ain't the only Ike out there but even so...
My biggest problem as of when this post was made... is Link/TL, R.O.B. and Snake.
Jigglypuff- For Jigglypuff people have told me to wait for Jigglypuff, play a patient game, groundstalk, predict where and when jiggly will land/attack, if you have any more advice about this character please post your 2 cents and I will add that information here.
Olimar- People have told me to approach from the air, trying a ground approach is asking for a pimin toss/ranged grab/ ftilt. people have also told me to sometimes lach pikmin onto me on purpose so I can counter whenever I felt so. still could use a little bit mroe advice than that, I have yet to fight another good olimar after I made a request on how to beat the guy, but I still feel limited.
Snake- I seem to have trouble beating Snake (who doesn't?) he will mortar slide to get to me, he plants mines and C4s which make it rather difficult to approach him from the ground, his air attacks are very powerful and so is his ftilt. Not too sure on what else makes it impossible to win but I am pretty sure everybody who doesn't adore Snake hates this guy about as much as I do for the reasons said and others for their own and can still tell me some ways to help me defeat this formidable opponent.
Curtiousy of Tenki, and if I am interpreting him right, you have you play a defensive game vs snake, and try and use his weapons to your advantage.
R.O.B. - If I can't kill this guy early, I have to do it post 175% damage, his recovery is great, and if he doesn't die when I send him flying, he will come back which leads to his survivability. he has his lazer eyes and his beyblade, making me play a somewhat more aggresive game, or at least trying to stale a bad idea. I find myself using eruption more just because it has scored me some kills on this robot, not sure if it could be emphasized more than just on the edge. I dunno how but my grab game is near impossible to do because his rolls are fast and spotdodges are instant to me. compared to Ike, R.O.B.'s smashes come out faster and have a considerable knockback to boot. His airgame is pretty great, does decent damage and has range, I feel the only way to get around this is to read my opponent and predict when he/she will try to hit me in the air and counter it, either that or space my fairs rights.
Ganodorf - I can't shield through his Side-Bs, but yeah that's expected sicne it's kind of a grabbing move. Either in the Air or from the ground, when Ganon does throw me down with his Side-B, it is not recommended to try a "wake-up" attack, and somehow he reads where I am going to roll to and he just Dairs me. He'll powershield my quickdraws and punish me for it. Don't get me started on trying to edgehog the guy, he'll either suicide side-b when he hast he advantage, or just up-b me and damage me, but maybe I am not not getting my dairs out at the right time, or does his up-b have priority over that? Now I am convinced that his uptilt has a use, I was going around one topic discussing what was the most useless move, people were saying it was his uptilt, and now that I have seen it in action those people have never fought this Ganon. It actually pulls you in sort of, it can hit you while you are grabbing the ledge, and has one helluva disjointed hitbox. Oh gosh what else was there when I was brawling this guy? Oh yeah at low percantages his downtilt can juggle me. And I think that's about it, if there was anything else, maybe somebody who has experience fighting Ganon can cover that for me.
Agai thansk to Tenki for telling me that to counter Ganon you have to play him like you are trying to play chess. That is, , read him, attack when you see/know there is going to be an opening, and punish his mistakes just as he can punish you for yours.
Link- I am going to seperate link and Toon Link here because they are a bit different but I till have trouble with both nonetheless, however for things that I have trouble with both characters will go with link. For both Link and Toon Link their arrows can go quite a way, so again trying to stale and play defensively is not a good idea, however it could be done due to the loading time for a fully charged arrow. Trying to gimp either in recovery almost never works for me, I am not sure if I am doing it wrong or Link/T.L.'s up-b just outprioritizes most of my aerial attacks...maybe I am not using Eruption enough but I will have to test this when I do get one of them to fight again...I don't know how they do it but a lot of their kills come from their Dsmash, a little bit more from their Fsmash, and a couple of times their Usmash, I am not too sure how to dim this down so any advice here would be appreciated. For Link I can't use the Gale Boomerang to my advantage when I can, Link will always somehow beat me to it, again any advice here would eb appreciated. another thing I want to go over with teh both of them is that their Dair can kill pretty easily, countering this is no good because they can just come back on the recoil and hit me when counter is down. Both their Uairs outprioritize my dair, so I find myself just going over to teh edge just to avoid being star-KOed, need help here as well...
Toon Link- everything has already been mentioned above for T.Link except his Bair, just like Ike's it comes out very fast, and has very good knockback, the difference though is he can spam it again where Ike has a bit of ending lag after his bair, help?
Curtiousy of Ussi, some of Ike's attacks have the same priority, so if you time it especially right, you can eat his boomerang/arrows and a ground approach is now viable again.
Sonic (this is quoted from Tenki on how to fight him for I am of no help in this situation.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by HW_Dark Link
How about Sonic? I believe u would utilize Quick Draw
"Nah, not exactly a good idea. All it would take is for the Sonic player to run forward and bait your QD, shield the hit and you'll be open for a grab, and grabs aren't a fun position to be in when you're against Sonic.
Stick to jabs and your faster moves.
This isn't a matchup to be sloppy with, and I believe it's a disadvantage for Ike because to win, you'll have to take advantage of 'player habits' (universal things like habits from ledge, airdodges, rolls, shield patterns).
In other words, you'll have to be a bit mindgame-intensive and bait certain reactions, as well as play defensively.
For example, if you nail him with retreating F-air a few times, he'll probably start airdodging when he gets in range of your F-air when approaching from the air, and you can switch to a delayed aerial or FF+usmash/u-tilt/etc
Keep in mind that his spindashes are cancellable before he starts them, and he can jump to get out of the roll at any time, so he has very little 'commitment' to the moves. If the Sonic is trying to do grounded spindash to attack you, run away. Yes, use Ike's speed to run away from Sonic's spindash... and pivot grab. It's a very rarely used move, but if the Sonic player really has it in mind to hit you with a grounded spindash, he'll be less mentally prepared to jump if he's trying to chase you. Ike's pivot grab is rather fast, too ;d
Some Sonic players (like myself) are fond of charging down-B in midair. If you can, try to nail Sonic while he's charging it (it looks like a complete circle as it's charging). This is because the Sonic player is holding [down] during the charge. He's essentially doing downwards DI so if you hit him while he's charging, he's essentially making it easier to kill him.
Aether from the edge is good. Sometimes. Other times, it will make you hate Ike's recovery, and this matchup is one of those.
If you do a low Aether, it's not too hard for Sonic to jump over Ragnell's range and drop a spring to knock you under the stage (death if you're playing on levels with lips like FD), or knock you further away so you're forced to go for the edge and get edgehogged. Or just knock you too far to recover. If you're in range for an uncharged quickdraw to land on the stage, try to use it, so you avoid hanging from the edge (or having to land Aether on the stage - landing lag will hurt you).
Overall, watch out for your:
Landing lag (prepare to respond to an attempted grab if you're landing with an aerial)
Roll patterns (don roll)
Ledge patterns"
-
Yeah as you can see I need a lot of improvement with my Ike, if it helps I play with the Wiimote on its own and I have only played onlnie matches so far, of course with none-minimal lag, if you come here to spam stuff like "you suck, wifi is for noobs, learn to play with the gamecube controller" you are:
1. A jerk
2. An idiot
3. not willing to try GOOD wifi battles, yes you will lag with some people but it is possible to get lagfree matches there
4. A troll
5. an ignorant ***
6 and soforth. anything else you can think of that makes you look like a *****
I come to these forums to seek advice/have fun playing what I do competitively, not to get flamed for my choices, you want to do that crap take it somewhere else.
Thank you in advance for any aid you bring to help me improve my Ike and maybe someday I will be good enough to be the best Ike anybody has ever seen.
this is just a roguh draft of how to beat the specified character, if you want the real deal from the people who posted look around in this thread, what I am giving you here is just a quickway to gain an edge.
