Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

[DJ3DS]

Do you think King K. Rool was the #1 first party on the Smash Ballot?

#1 first party? Unlikely. Amongst your more hardcore Nintendo enthusiasts perhaps but with a relatively limited mainstream appeal due to his lack of recent appearances I doubt he'd be getting more votes than, say, your most popular Mario or Pokémon characters.

Did he do well though? I'd be surprised if he didn't - and he's almost certainly going to be the most heavily requested from his series.

 

[Chandeelure]

I mean, Bayonetta won, and I really doubt the casual crowd knows who she is.

So yeah, I do think the ballot was more for the hardcore fans.

Casuals probably didn't even know about the ballot (like some of my friends who play Smash sometimes).

The most requested first party was probably K. Rool, Wolf, Ice Climbers or Inklings.

 

[Raxxel]

I certainly wish we got to see the ballot results. The lack of transparency was bothersome.

 

[Megadoomer]

I certainly wish we got to see the ballot results. The lack of transparency was bothersome.

It would have just divided the community further and upset basically everyone, not to mention that it would give away who would almost definitely be included in the next game.

If someone like Wolf did well (for example, second place in North America, and fourth in Europe), people would be wondering why he didn't get in. If both Dixie and K. Rool did good but not great enough to get into the game, those two fanbases would be at each other's throats.

People use what little we know about the ballot results (that Bayonetta was number 1 in Europe, top 5 in North America, and number 1 out of the characters that they could actually include) to whine and complain about them, so I can't imagine how bad it would be if we had anything more specific.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I certainly wish we got to see the ballot results. The lack of transparency was bothersome.

It would certainly be nice to know but it would result in what Megadoomer said. Revealing that info could potentially limit future surprises and push Sakurai's decision making up against a wall. With the nature of Smash there is no way Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo would want the burden of the ballot to be known.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

It would have just divided the community further and upset basically everyone, not to mention that it would give away who would almost definitely be included in the next game.

If someone like Wolf did well (for example, second place in North America, and fourth in Europe), people would be wondering why he didn't get in. If both Dixie and K. Rool did good but not great enough to get into the game, those two fanbases would be at each other's throats.

People use what little we know about the ballot results (that Bayonetta was number 1 in Europe, top 5 in North America, and number 1 out of the characters that they could actually include) to whine and complain about them, so I can't imagine how bad it would be if we had anything more specific.

I agree with you, but it's stuff like this that just makes it suck that we'll never get an official Smash Bros. artbook/concept art book.

 

[DraginHikari]

I certainly wish we got to see the ballot results. The lack of transparency was bothersome.

As a company when you are collecting data about a subject from customers. You have to be very very careful about how to release that information to the public or whether you should at all. The problem is consumers as a whole are not particularly concerned about the nuances of information. This quickly become a firestorm if mismanaged. As such unless it something that consumers really need to know (let's face it we really don't need to know that) it sometimes best just to keep it internal for future consideration.

In the end game development is not a democracy. In most situations the developers still make decides they think are best for the game. The ballot results would give some consumers the wrong idea of being owned something as a result.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

The ballot was an interesting thing because it was the greatest marketing decision they could have made and at the same time it could have been nothing more than just that. When Beyonetta won the ballot I knew it was just a marketing ploy. Thing is we won't know the results because if we did it would take away all the "possibilities" that come with it. It's easy to put whatever character in there and say "they were a high choice".

Am i saying the ballot was a sham? Not entirely. I think the ballot at that time was going to mean nothing... but was planned on being used for the Switch title which was probably being planned at that time. The DLC for Smash 4 was not influenced by the ballot, there's no way... Beyonetta was planned no matter what, it's no coincidence she gets into Smash right as her games become exclusive to Nintendo and on top that still are as she's getting her 3rd title exclusive to Switch. They just used the ballot to drum up excitement and it worked really well because it's a genius marketing move... and I do think the ballot is being used for Smash Switch.

That being said, was K. Rool the top 1st party character on the ballot, as it's been said on here hard to say, we don't want to toot our own horns and make it seem like he's a shoe in because he wasn't anything lower than top 3... however of all the campaigns happening at the time of the ballot I do firmly believe he had one of the strongest.. I can say from me alone getting all of my friends and family to vote as well as well acquaintances I got at least 40 votes... and I know others on this board did too. Every reddit and fan poll I saw where people recorded there votes had him in the top 3 usually behind 3rd parties like Banjo. Casuals voted for him too not as many as us but still I'm sure he did have some, I met people not involved with Smashboards who voted for him. Bottom line is through our efforts and in general he had to be one of the top 1st parties... I'd be surprised if he didn't make the top 5 overall Japan wanted him too. I think he had a slight edge over Dixie, who was right on his tail but I think he was beat by Banjo and Paper Mario probably got more votes than he did.

 

[StormC]

At the end of the day, K. Rool did well enough to get a brand new costume/render despite not appearing in close to a decade.

Also, casual votes would be scattershot as hell, assuming they even voted. They wouldn't come together on any particular character. I really doubt a random Pokemon beat K. Rool in votes. Nintendo claims they got 1.8 million votes, which is less than half of the people who bought Smash Wii U.

 

[Deleted member]

It would have just divided the community further and upset basically everyone, not to mention that it would give away who would almost definitely be included in the next game.

If someone like Wolf did well (for example, second place in North America, and fourth in Europe), people would be wondering why he didn't get in. If both Dixie and K. Rool did good but not great enough to get into the game, those two fanbases would be at each other's throats.

People use what little we know about the ballot results (that Bayonetta was number 1 in Europe, top 5 in North America, and number 1 out of the characters that they could actually include) to whine and complain about them, so I can't imagine how bad it would be if we had anything more specific.

But it's not unreasonable to raise question about how Nintendo handled the ballot.

What does "among realizable characters" mean? We were given no specifics on this and it would have been nice if they would at least tell us what realizable meant. Something like "characters that we can get with licensing," "characters that are possible to make," or "characters we had time to make assets," which Sakruai implied when he choose Wolf over Krystal in Brawl. Sakurai could have brought up any of this when discussing it and he did not, leaving us in the dark. I'm not asking for Sakurai to reveal the entire poll, just give us some idea of what wasn't realizable.

Also, where is Japan in all of this? Japan is the second biggest region for Nintendo consoles next to North America and we got no mention of how well Bayonetta did. No #1, no Top 5, no Top 10, nothing. This is the region that Nintendo and all of the third-party companies featured in Smash are from so why aren't Japanese told their votes mattered?

I'm not saying that the ballot was a sham or it was just for marketing purpose but it's clear Bayonetta didn't top the poll, that someone had to beat her in order for Sakurai to clarify she won "among realizable characters," almost certainly several. I'm not going to claim who these characters were but I don't blame people who try to speculate who they might be. That's because those "among unrealizable characters" could end up being "realizable" for this game and those are the characters that will be added because of the ballot, not ones that didn't beat her.

Edit: I stand corrected on one thing, the part “among realizable characters” came only in worldwide. She might have reached the Top 5 but I still maintained she wasn’t #1.

 

[Megadoomer]

I just saw this article posted on Event Hubs; at the very least, it should help to get the idea of K. Rool's inclusion in Smash Bros. out to a wider audience. (specifically, the fighting game community)

 

[Korporal K. Reep]

Hey guys wouldn't this

make for a great alt costume? In addition to the regular Kaptain outfit of course.

 

[StormC]

I was thinking emerging from seaweed might be a funny entrance, but probably a bit much for a whole costume.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

But it's not unreasonable to raise question about how Nintendo handled the ballot.

What does "among realizable characters" mean? We were given no specifics on this and it would have been nice if they would at least tell us what realizable meant. Something like "characters that we can get with licensing," "characters that are possible to make," or "characters we had time to make assets," which Sakruai implied when he choose Wolf over Krystal in Brawl. Sakurai could have brought up any of this when discussing it and he did not, leaving us in the dark. I'm not asking for Sakurai to reveal the entire poll, just give us some idea of what wasn't realizable.

Also, where is Japan in all of this? Japan is the second biggest region for Nintendo consoles next to North America and we got no mention of how well Bayonetta did. No #1, no Top 5, no Top 10, nothing. This is the region that Nintendo and all of the third-party companies featured in Smash are from so why aren't Japanese told their votes mattered?

I'm not saying that the ballot was a sham or it was just for marketing purpose but it's clear Bayonetta didn't top the poll, that someone had to beat her in order for Sakurai to clarify she won "among realizable characters," almost certainly several. I'm not going to claim who these characters were but I don't blame people who try to speculate who they might be. That's because those "among unrealizable characters" could end up being "realizable" for this game and those are the characters that will be added because of the ballot, not ones that didn't beat her.

Edit: I stand corrected on one thing, the part “among realizable characters” came only in worldwide. She might have reached the Top 5 but I still maintained she wasn’t #1.

I never knew Sakurai ever addressed Krystal at all.. huh. Interesting info... this article make's him seem like he really dosent care for Wolf geez.. it's almost like he's saying " i didn't even want to put him in there but I did it because it was easy so consider yourselves lucky, because I wasn't going to give Star Fox more representatives".... then he cut him... and then didn't even add him back later... wow..

Poor Wolf.

 

[Deleted member]

I never knew Sakurai ever addressed Krystal at all.. huh. Interesting info... this article make's him seem like he really dosent care for Wolf geez.. it's almost like he's saying " i didn't even want to put him in there but I did it because it was easy so consider yourselves lucky, because I wasn't going to give Star Fox more representatives".... then he cut him... and then didn't even add him back later... wow..

Poor Wolf.

It's a shame that Star Fox Zero got delayed; maybe we would have gotten Wolf instead of Corrin. Here's to hoping he makes it back to the base roster but that will only happen if everyone returns.

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

So I had a dream that King K. Rool was revealed as a newcomer in the new Smash Bros. To be honest, despite it being just a dream It still got me pretty excited.

Sigh, this wait for Smash news is gonna be hard.

 

[BKupa666]

Hi, so, to follow up on that comment from @Fuzzy Pickles!, here's the relevant quote from the interview he linked, with some bold and coloring for emphasis.

Sakurai: Wolf was a character that barely made it in due to time constraints. He was added because there was high demand for his inclusion on places like “Smash Bros. Dojo!!”, and he’s a popular character. Of course, if he didn’t have that backing him, I don’t think I could have put him in. Among the characters with high popularity, I chose one who had a high possibility of becoming realized in the game, and as a result you could say Wolf was created.

Notice the use of "realized," as in "realizable characters," used in the context of explaining why Wolf, not Krystal, became a last-minute addition to Brawl due to existing "modeling knowledge" from Fox and Falco making him easier to develop.

People, especially those who like branding anyone not taking the ballot at face value as conspiracy theorists, have argued that the term "realizable" clearly refers only to Goku, Shrek and the like, and that because us forum-dwellers lived in a bubble while silent majorities loved and voted for Bayonetta, she straight up outranked everyone else. But especially after reading that old interview, I don't think it's a stretch to factor in that Bayonetta could have been a much easier character to realize as a DLC newcomer than her near competitors.

Unlike most other third parties, K. Rool or Isaac, she had an abundance of modern models, textures, animations and whatnot existing for her and her series, and in possession of one of Sakurai's friends as a cherry on top. Combine that with the apparent restriction on veterans to one apiece from Melee and Brawl, decent popularity and a clear desire to promote her games, released and upcoming, and Bayonetta's inclusion makes perfect sense in hindsight.

Nintendo won't ever come out and clarify "realizable," as they want to keep the ballot results under wraps and only a fraction of the hardcore minority even cares anyway. But if we start getting other ballot-popular characters with brand-new animations or complex movesets in Smash Switch, I think this theory will only be bolstered in the end.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

So apparently there's new Tropical Freeze idle animations. They are really cute and super in character for all the Kongs!

 

[Laniv]

So apparently there's new Tropical Freeze idle animations. They are really cute and super in character for all the Kongs!

Okay, that Diddy animation was too adorable.

 

[Megadoomer]

So apparently there's new Tropical Freeze idle animations. They are really cute and super in character for all the Kongs!

I love how Cranky doesn't really care about the Nintendo Switch. Of course, that's to be expected. Back in his day, they didn't need portable gaming systems! If people wanted to play their games on the go, they'd have to lug around a three hundred pound arcade cabinet and a power supply, and that's the way they liked it!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We need some Kong assists or something.

I’d love to see Funky or Lanky as assists at least, or a stage with Cranky making asinine comments the while time.

Ooh, or Cranky codex! “Who’s this hairless ape with a sword?! Back in my day, we didn’t fight with swords or shields, we fought with fists! Kids today have things so easy with their bombs and bows...”

 

[Laniv]

We need some Kong assists or something.

I’d love to see Funky or Lanky as assists at least, or a stage with Cranky making asinine comments the while time.

Ooh, or Cranky codex! “Who’s this hairless ape with a sword?! Back in my day, we didn’t fight with swords or shields, we fought with fists! Kids today have things so easy with their bombs and bows...”

Oh man, imagine Cranky just ripping into Sonic...

 

[Megadoomer]

Oh man, imagine Cranky just ripping into Sonic...

"Why if it ain't that good for nothing No-Hoper! Keeps going on about "speed" and "Blast Processing"... I remember when characters moved like snails going uphill in January, and the game flickered when too many things were on-screen! Now that was a real challenge! You kids today don't know how good you've got it..."

 

[StormC]

I kinda want something less "expected" for an Assist Trophy. Something like King Zing, who could fly around and send smaller Zingers out to attack.

 

[Korporal K. Reep]

So apparently there's new Tropical Freeze idle animations. They are really cute and super in character for all the Kongs!

These are awesome! Love them!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't know about how well K. Rool did in the ballot, but given that Geno of all characters (a character whose only major appearance was in a 1996 game that sold around 2 million copies) was acknowledged as a popular request among the silent majority (if it was just a vocal minority of the fanbase, Sakurai would have been explicit instating that), no one has any business stating that K. Rool would have done poorly because of him being unknown among "casual" younger fans.

 

[HelloSpy]

K. Rool definitely deserves an inclusion. Usually, after every character got their ally in Smash (Mario and Luigi | Link and Zelda), soon they got the villain. We have Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong, so don't you think it's time for King K. Rool?

 

[mynameisBlade]

K. Rool definitely deserves an inclusion. Usually, after every character got their ally in Smash (Mario and Luigi | Link and Zelda), soon they got the villain. We have Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong, so don't you think it's time for King K. Rool?

This is how I tend to think about it as well. After the first two characters come a villain usually shows up. Almost been 10 years waiting for that to happen to DK.. I guess when it finally does come to pass, the long wait will have made it all the sweeter.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

King K. Rool was my one and only vote for the ballot (I was a good boy). I'm willing to bet he was one of the most if not the most voted for Nintendo newcomer on the ballot. I'm hoping his placement on the ballot is enough for Sakurai to add him, but I'm worried he'll instead just add a highly voted for character who is also relevant, and just add Dixie for new DK representation. I hope I'm wrong, because K. Rool really deserves a spot on the roster, and he's still my most desired character.

 

[StormC]

King K. Rool was my one and only vote for the ballot (I was a good boy). I'm willing to bet he was one of the most if not the most voted for Nintendo newcomer on the ballot. I'm hoping his placement on the ballot is enough for Sakurai to add him, but I'm worried he'll instead just add a highly voted for character who is also relevant, and just add Dixie for new DK representation. I hope I'm wrong, because K. Rool really deserves a spot on the roster, and he's still my most desired character.

If K. Rool is #1 on the ballot and Dixie is #10 or so, I don't think Sakurai is gonna add Dixie instead thinking it will make people who voted for K. Rool happy. People voted for characters, not franchise reps. That said, enough votes for both K. Rool and Dixie that mention the lack of Donkey Kong characters could make him decided to add both.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If K. Rool is #1 on the ballot and Dixie is #10 or so, I don't think Sakurai is gonna add Dixie instead thinking it will make people who voted for K. Rool happy. People voted for characters, not franchise reps. That said, enough votes for both K. Rool and Dixie that mention the lack of Donkey Kong characters could make him decided to add both.

It wouldn't satisfy K. Rool fans obviously, but Dixie would make a lot DK fans happy, that's what I was getting at.

 

[StormC]

It wouldn't satisfy K. Rool fans obviously, but Dixie would make a lot DK fans happy, that's what I was getting at.

But the majority of K. Rool vote blurbs aren't saying "I want a new Donkey Kong character." They're saying things like "I want a new Donkey Kong character, and I want it to be K. Rool because he's a heavyweight, he's a villain, he would have a fun moveset, he's a cool/funny character," etc. etc. They may not even say they want a new Donkey Kong character (although I'm sure a lot do). People in the ballots aren't saying "I'll take any DK character," they're saying "I want K. Rool." I can't say it with certainty, but I don't think Sakurai is gonna choose a character just as a "rep." They're gonna choose them because they're highly requested.

To reference Sakurai's quote on why he chose Cloud...

Having a representative from Final Fantasy is an amazing feat! And the character that was the overwhelming favorite among the cast of Final Fantasy was Cloud.

He didn't choose Black Mage or Terra or anything like that. He chose Cloud because he was the most popular Final Fantasy character. Pretty safe to assume the same thing would apply to K. Rool, if he picks up on the lack of DK characters.

Also, we know K. Rool is already on his radar. The costume confirms this. The only time he's referenced Dixie in any capacity was when he considered a team up mechanic with Diddy in Brawl. Could he revisit that? Maybe, but it would probably be independent of his decision to add K. Rool.

 

[Jetsurge]

Sakurai would add King K. Rool over Dixie for the same reason he decided Robin over Chrom and Cloud over any other FF character. He offers a more unique moveset than any existing DK character and he is the most popular choice. I'd rather them both get in though.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

But the majority of K. Rool vote blurbs aren't saying "I want a new Donkey Kong character." They're saying things like "I want a new Donkey Kong character, and I want it to be K. Rool because he's a heavyweight, he's a villain, he would have a fun moveset, he's a cool/funny character," etc. etc. They may not even say they want a new Donkey Kong character (although I'm sure a lot do). People in the ballots aren't saying "I'll take any DK character," they're saying "I want K. Rool." I can't say it with certainty, but I don't think Sakurai is gonna choose a character just as a "rep." They're gonna choose them because they're highly requested.

To reference Sakurai's quote on why he chose Cloud...



He didn't choose Black Mage or Terra or anything like that. He chose Cloud because he was the most popular Final Fantasy character. Pretty safe to assume the same thing would apply to K. Rool, if he picks up on the lack of DK characters.

Also, we know K. Rool is already on his radar. The costume confirms this. The only time he's referenced Dixie in any capacity was when he considered a team up mechanic with Diddy in Brawl. Could he revisit that? Maybe, but it would probably be independent of his decision to add K. Rool.

You've completely misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't implying that Dixie would get in because of the ballot, I think she would get in for other reasons. Fan demand isn't everything, remember Rosalina was made higher priority over more requested Mario characters like Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Paper Mario and Toad.

 

[StormC]

You've completely misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't implying that Dixie would get in because of the ballot, I think she would get in for other reasons. Fan demand isn't everything, remember Rosalina was made higher priority over more requested Mario characters like Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Paper Mario and Toad.

If K. Rool isn't getting in because of the ballot, basically nobody is and the ballot is totally pointless, which seems unlikely with a game that started development soon after Smash 4 DLC ended. The ballot was probably the first thing on the table for character consideration this time around, which means K. Rool was at least seen as an equal choice to Dixie, instead of thinking of Dixie first, then seeing the ballot results for K. Rool. This game started development knowing the ballot results.

If Sakurai had his heart set on Dixie, why didn't he add her as Smash 4 DLC? I really don't think Dixie is on Sakurai's radar very much, certainly not before K. Rool.

 

[Jeck]

You know what's really funny? Western players theorized for a long time that the Smash Ballot was for future reference and that subsequent Smash 4 DLC would be to round out the fringes of the roster...

Only now do I find out that that is literally what the Japanese website implicitly told users it was for. Can't be the only one who thought that was strange.

Anyways my point is when you take everything into account K. Rool's chances look really good. It's pretty clear the last couple ballot-era characters were a thank you for making Nintendo exclusive games with big franchises. The costume was probably not meant as a troll in my opinion. If I had to guess, they were trying to see how reliable the input they got truly was. We also know Sakurai wanted Heihachi in as well as Inklings.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Oh god... We are in 2018, and there are people who still thinks that King K. Rool and the Kremlins are owned by Microsoft/Rare.

Honestly. Is it not a weird coincidence that the name King K. Rool got trademarked by Nintendo back in 2016, which is suspeciously close to when the Smash game for Switch must have started it's developement? I don't think so.

But, does not that mean that Nintendo specifiaclly owns the right to King K. Rool and the Kremlins by 100%, because that's what a trademark is meant for.

^
Just really makes me question people's research in these type of videoes.

 

[StormC]

Not to be a party pooper, but I assume the trademark has to do with the costume.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

If Kremlings were owned by Microsoft, they wouldnt be in
-Donkey Konga
-Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 as trohpies
-DK Kungle Climber & King of Swing
-A bunch of Mario sports (strikers, baseball, backgroumd in tennis)
-Barrel Blast
Cranky, Diddy, Dixie, Funky were also made by Rare. I dont know of any tangable evidence that exists that makes people think (besides the hiatus in the main games, but that arguement isnt really a solid one) K Rool is so different.

 

[Jetsurge]

If Kremlings were owned by Microsoft, they wouldnt be in
-Donkey Konga
-Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 as trohpies
-DK Kungle Climber & King of Swing
-A bunch of Mario sports (strikers, baseball, backgroumd in tennis)
-Barrel Blast
Cranky, Diddy, Dixie, Funky were also made by Rare. I dont know of any tangable evidence that exists that makes people think (besides the hiatus in the main games, but that arguement isnt really a solid one) K Rool is so different.

Don't forget the Kremlings were enemies in Smash Run