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King DDD's ChainGrab
- Thread starter TierWhore
- Start date
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
Well, the spot dodge will escape the running chain throw, but D3 has a specific chain throw on DK and Bowser only of Dtoss, Grapple, Dtoss, Grapple, Dtoss... to my understanding, this chain is an infinite and DK can't escape. A good D3 against a DK should be 1 throw = death.
What's your sig mean? I don't get it.
What's your sig mean? I don't get it.
ok, thanks for the info, and Oni163 is bum's SN, and he was describing me and another DK from NY. I train with him all the time so he was giving me feedback. Idk if there are any places where this matchup has been discussed, so do you have any more info on how to beat DDD?
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
This is all quoted from Ripple on the match-up thread, ALL CREDIT = RIPPLE
King Dedede
This is the 4th match-up that DK has the upper hand in. stay ahead in % and forward tilt his minions that he throws at you except for Gordo(the spiked one). Make them approach you and punish accordingly. DDD has some good reach and priority with some of his moves especially his over tilt. use your down-b as a spacer and forward tilt as a spacer that knocks them horizontally, whichever is your preference to kill someone, bair or Uair. Uair is probably a better choice in this match-up because of DDD's horizontal recovery is quite good. Also with DDD's slow *** and his lag it is easier to use your smashes, go for more F-smashes and ....you know what; just use every smash more often. Bair to down smash or over smash is the best combo you have against DDD at low %. Another combo that is highly effective at very low percent is d-throw to F-tilt or even a DK punch if you want to mix it up. Just don't get grabbed yourself, if you do happen to get grabbed expect the D-throw. As it turns out, DDD can chain grab DK without even moving(Gay) which moves the favor of this match-up to DDD a tremendous amount. DON"T GET GRABBED OR IT'S AN AUTOMATIC STOCK LOSS
difficulty: 6-7
King Dedede
This is the 4th match-up that DK has the upper hand in. stay ahead in % and forward tilt his minions that he throws at you except for Gordo(the spiked one). Make them approach you and punish accordingly. DDD has some good reach and priority with some of his moves especially his over tilt. use your down-b as a spacer and forward tilt as a spacer that knocks them horizontally, whichever is your preference to kill someone, bair or Uair. Uair is probably a better choice in this match-up because of DDD's horizontal recovery is quite good. Also with DDD's slow *** and his lag it is easier to use your smashes, go for more F-smashes and ....you know what; just use every smash more often. Bair to down smash or over smash is the best combo you have against DDD at low %. Another combo that is highly effective at very low percent is d-throw to F-tilt or even a DK punch if you want to mix it up. Just don't get grabbed yourself, if you do happen to get grabbed expect the D-throw. As it turns out, DDD can chain grab DK without even moving(Gay) which moves the favor of this match-up to DDD a tremendous amount. DON"T GET GRABBED OR IT'S AN AUTOMATIC STOCK LOSS
difficulty: 6-7
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
the stand still chaingrab works on dk, bowser, samus, luigi, and i think one other, not sure which though
7734
Smash Journeyman
I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but neutral tilt's stop the chain grab.
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
Mario.
For Mario, Luigi, and Samus DDD has to grab attack in between throws though. With Bowser, he has to move forward slightly so it can only go so far before Bowser goes offstage. DK is the only one where he can infinite throw from 0% to death.
What's a neutral tilt? Jab?
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
the chain grab is weird. The more he uses it, the less damage it does but the more knockback it has. if you DI completely away from him then after a certain number of grabs based on % he will have to dash grab to continue. so while it is inescapable, it can made so that they must end it
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
Banned in NY WTF!
ICEDTEA1325
Smash Apprentice
what do ou mean it is banned in NY how can they do that??
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
State Law.
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
standing infinite chaingrab should be banned, its beyond stupid
and how exactly do you roll/spot dodge out of the running one?
and how exactly do you roll/spot dodge out of the running one?
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
need I say it again. you can not get out of it unless you do what is above. if you can spot dodge they did it wrong
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
Really, well dang I thought you could spotdodge before they could run and regrab.. atleast I thought thats what everyone was saying.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
This match is unwinable for DK.
Nintendo tried to make this game more balenced but instead made a character that can completely make another character unplayable, like Shiek did in melee but DDDs chain grab is waaaay worse.
Nintendo tried to make this game more balenced but instead made a character that can completely make another character unplayable, like Shiek did in melee but DDDs chain grab is waaaay worse.
Linguini
Smash Master
Yeah,this is unwinnable for DK, sorry guys go marth or something, thats what im doing.
I've been testing this grab out and the only to escape is if DDD doesnt refresh the Dthrow with the grab jabs...and if you spot dodge against the running CG beware of a dash attack...but if the DDD is timing it right you won't be able to spot dodge.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
I can take a DK from one side of a stage to another and do roughly 130% damage before I forward throw, then rinse and repeat.
I haven't done it in tourney yet, but I just discovered it playing Linguini Lolololololololololololololololol.
I haven't done it in tourney yet, but I just discovered it playing Linguini Lolololololololololololololololol.
Cero
Smash Lord
hmmm...only time will tell
Linguini
Smash Master
Well, until its completely officially banned this matchup is unwinnable, cuz your gonna get grabbed at some point. And yes, this is alooot worse than ganon vs sheik CG, because ganon actually had a cg to do back on sheik and shieks CG wasnt an infinite either.
It would def be winnable if there was no infinite tho. hopefully it gets banned.
It would def be winnable if there was no infinite tho. hopefully it gets banned.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Yeah I kinda agree, but, hey after a MK won the last 150 man tourney I was at by doing only Up B in EVERY SINGLE MATCH he played I don't give 2 ****s.
In place chain grab forever.
In place chain grab forever.
I'm sure if this existed it would have been discovered already - by I'm going to throw it out there anyways. I've had a few instances (at least I think I remember this) where I think I have cancelled out a grab all together. A la soul calibur it looked as if the opponent went for a grab and my character pushed him away before the grab took place - it was the animation when one gets out of a grab but without the grab ever taking place. I cannot recall if this was simply because I was at a low percentage and I was spazzing so I just got out of an existing grab really quickly, or if I somehow timed a grab-cancel (which, if it real, would save the dk vs d3 matchup). Either way, might as well say it.
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
I have had some strange incidents, too, Tx3Fate, except I actually reversed the throw. I recorded two of the matches in which it happened, but I have no means of uploading them at the moment. Anyways, they grabbed me and went through the throwing animation, I took damage, and THEY flew away. I tried reproducing it with D3, since it definitely would be a means of escape, but I have had no luck thus far. I'm not even really sure how it is done, to be honest. Each time was a mistake.
If I can upload some of the videos, I'll make a thread about it.
If I can upload some of the videos, I'll make a thread about it.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
@Tx3Fate: I'm pretty sure it was just your opponent mashing buttons really fast when you grabbed him, or maybe you guys were next to an edge perhaps?
It happened again in a match I played a bit ago. I was at 78 percent and pressed... I believe jump at the exact moment the opponent tried to grab me. I wasn't spamming or anything, and instead of getting grabbed I pushed the other guy away. What is that?
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Luck?
Yeah, it's probably luck.
It was in Melee.
Yeah, it's probably luck.
It was in Melee.
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
o.0 I'll play with this guyz. =)
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
Whenever I did it I was just spinning the analog and C sticks to try to get out. It could be jump I suppose since I don't have tap jump off. Either way, that's what I was doing each time I did it, but I have not been able to reproduce it. I was at 4% when I did it and Ike (the tosser) was at 20%. Again, for me I didn't just break loose. I did the "break loose" animation, but he was definitely thrown by his own throw.
If I can get an SD card sometime I'll upload the video.
Also, I'm quite sure it isn't luck-based/random. I went into training as Ike, gave myself 20% and set DK's percent to 4% and just back threw him over and over again for probably 10 minutes straight, resetting his damage each time. If this is random, it is far too random to actually use, but otherwise it is based on user input and timing.
I also think it can only be done with certain heavyweight characters; maybe just unarmed heavyweights. I have done it with DK and Ganon and I have had it done to me by a Snake. If Ike was capable of reversing the throw, I'm sure some Ike player would have witnessed it by now because he's far more popular than DK and Ganon.
I'll try a few more things tonight to see if I can make some progress with it. Kyle, be sure to let us know if you figure anything out.
If I can get an SD card sometime I'll upload the video.
Also, I'm quite sure it isn't luck-based/random. I went into training as Ike, gave myself 20% and set DK's percent to 4% and just back threw him over and over again for probably 10 minutes straight, resetting his damage each time. If this is random, it is far too random to actually use, but otherwise it is based on user input and timing.
I also think it can only be done with certain heavyweight characters; maybe just unarmed heavyweights. I have done it with DK and Ganon and I have had it done to me by a Snake. If Ike was capable of reversing the throw, I'm sure some Ike player would have witnessed it by now because he's far more popular than DK and Ganon.
I'll try a few more things tonight to see if I can make some progress with it. Kyle, be sure to let us know if you figure anything out.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
Dedede is a fat *** *****.
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
I hope so. I have been wanting to learn to control this for several weeks now, but I have had no success. Coupling a throw reversal technique with great power shielding could make DK an absolute tank.
I just wish I knew how to do it. I tried last night for like 20 more minutes with a friend and still have not been able to turn it around. I tried everything I can think of, but still no good. Maybe some day one of us will have divine insight and figure it out.
I just wish I knew how to do it. I tried last night for like 20 more minutes with a friend and still have not been able to turn it around. I tried everything I can think of, but still no good. Maybe some day one of us will have divine insight and figure it out.
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
I had a Gallery exhibition to attend to last night, as my piece were included my attendance was mandatory. But, I will sit down with a few guys tonight, because I have multiple input theories to test. Such as. Which button the opponent uses to grapple, Lshield+A, Rshield+a or Z. Was it a running grapple or a pivot grapple?
Just to clarify, did you reverse the Grapple or the Throw? if it is teh throw whick one activated? For example was it a Btoss or a Ftoss that came out?
Just to clarify, did you reverse the Grapple or the Throw? if it is teh throw whick one activated? For example was it a Btoss or a Ftoss that came out?
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
I don't know what my opponent used to grab me. I know I was shield grabbed once and I was dash grabbed once, so I'm assuming it can be either R/L + A or just Z. I never reversed a pivot grab.
Only the throw was reversed. They grabbed me, activated a throw and went through the animation and everything, but instead of me flying away, it was them. I was just standing there with the "breakout" animation. For example, the replay I have is vs. Ike; he did a bthrow so he moved me behind him and kicked, but then he flew away. For Ganon vs. Mario, another incident I remember, Mario bthrew me and swung me around, but again he flew off the stage and I was just standing there, confused.
It actually seems as though both of these were back throw. I don't remember what the other throws were, sadly. I still have no clue what causes it, but I will emphasize again that all I do when I am grabbed is spin the analog and C sticks around frantically and then smash DI at the end. You can certainly try other buttons, but that's all I use and I have done it 3-4 times.
Good luck, Kyle!
Only the throw was reversed. They grabbed me, activated a throw and went through the animation and everything, but instead of me flying away, it was them. I was just standing there with the "breakout" animation. For example, the replay I have is vs. Ike; he did a bthrow so he moved me behind him and kicked, but then he flew away. For Ganon vs. Mario, another incident I remember, Mario bthrew me and swung me around, but again he flew off the stage and I was just standing there, confused.
It actually seems as though both of these were back throw. I don't remember what the other throws were, sadly. I still have no clue what causes it, but I will emphasize again that all I do when I am grabbed is spin the analog and C sticks around frantically and then smash DI at the end. You can certainly try other buttons, but that's all I use and I have done it 3-4 times.
Good luck, Kyle!
wow, this thread is actually like the only thread on the DK forums that doesn't suck...wooo!!!!!, and definitely do some more testing, i'm curious as to the results. Oh, and Kyle, if you have wifi lemme know, i wanna play you as you seem to be very active and such. Just pm me or something
Kyle_Wattula
Smash Journeyman
Wow...I'm stumped.
I've tested Multiple input theories, I've thought about button priority and different grapple types. Button buffering, negative edging, entering a certain combination (AKS Samus-Zamus Taunt trick & Snake pressure sensitive taunts). We even tried getting grappled out of SA frames.
Where you standing on a weird platform or was this something generic like FD. Maybe it was the terrain that did it... maybe.
I am very curious to see the vid now.
I've tested Multiple input theories, I've thought about button priority and different grapple types. Button buffering, negative edging, entering a certain combination (AKS Samus-Zamus Taunt trick & Snake pressure sensitive taunts). We even tried getting grappled out of SA frames.
Where you standing on a weird platform or was this something generic like FD. Maybe it was the terrain that did it... maybe.
I am very curious to see the vid now.
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
Haha, welcome to my world. It is real bizarre. I can't get anything out of it, either.
The video I have is on Pkmn Stadium during a stage change, which does hurt the credibility, although I/he was thrown before the stage changed and we weren't any any part that moved (it was the part with the trees and we were on the bottom). But yes, the one video I have at the moment is during scenery change. It has happened while I was Ganon vs. Mario on Smashville on the normal stage (not the platform), and it does not get much more generic than that. I don't recall the other stages, but I only play on the very neutral stages typically. If my brother sends me the other video and I find some means of uploading these (.bin files are no good), then I'll put them both up.
Actually, Kyle if you add me and give me your Wii code, I could just send the replays to you and tell you when to look out for it. Does that work?
I am basically out of ideas, too. I haven't tried many of the things you mentioned, and those were some really good ideas. I had never thought of those. I did consider special button combinations like you mention, but the thing that is really strange is that when I did it vs Ike in the replay I have recorded, there was no time between grab and throw basically. He grabbed and instantly bthrew me and it was reversed. I mash buttons pretty fast, but not fast enough to input a precise button combo in that short span of time. I was thinking maybe it was something like tumble cancel where you just mash left and right without any up or down component, but I was spinning the sticks. Even testing just horizontal or vertical components yielded nothing productive.
I don't know what else I can try by means of explicitly testing this, but I'll continue to keep my eyes peeled for some other occurrences.
The video I have is on Pkmn Stadium during a stage change, which does hurt the credibility, although I/he was thrown before the stage changed and we weren't any any part that moved (it was the part with the trees and we were on the bottom). But yes, the one video I have at the moment is during scenery change. It has happened while I was Ganon vs. Mario on Smashville on the normal stage (not the platform), and it does not get much more generic than that. I don't recall the other stages, but I only play on the very neutral stages typically. If my brother sends me the other video and I find some means of uploading these (.bin files are no good), then I'll put them both up.
Actually, Kyle if you add me and give me your Wii code, I could just send the replays to you and tell you when to look out for it. Does that work?
I am basically out of ideas, too. I haven't tried many of the things you mentioned, and those were some really good ideas. I had never thought of those. I did consider special button combinations like you mention, but the thing that is really strange is that when I did it vs Ike in the replay I have recorded, there was no time between grab and throw basically. He grabbed and instantly bthrew me and it was reversed. I mash buttons pretty fast, but not fast enough to input a precise button combo in that short span of time. I was thinking maybe it was something like tumble cancel where you just mash left and right without any up or down component, but I was spinning the sticks. Even testing just horizontal or vertical components yielded nothing productive.
I don't know what else I can try by means of explicitly testing this, but I'll continue to keep my eyes peeled for some other occurrences.
That is really wierd, ive seen "cancelled" throws but not reversed throws. I too have been playing with it alot the past couple days - to no avail. I would also be curious to see the video - if you get it kyle please upload it on youtube or something!