Keyboard vs. Controller Analysis

[greenblob]

I'm interested in hearing people's opinions of the advantages/disadvantages of Keyboard smashing. I'm especially curious about the difference in performance between the arrow keys and the analog stick. So far I've gathered the obvious--the analog stick allows for tilting on-command and the keyboard allows for easier DI. I'm also wondering about how people compensate for the disadvantages of either.

 

[Nintendude]

Keyboard can do anything a controller can except you have no control over walking speeds and in order to tilt you must first press the direction while lagging from something else. However, the fact that keyboard DI is really easy compensates, so keyboards are pretty much just as good as controllers.

 

[Umbrasquall]

Seeing how Nintendude is a keyboard user...

I think both have their advantages, but I'd suggest using a controller because it is more realistic. If you play on the keyboard a lot just make sure you aren't planning to play games on the real system.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

I agree with Umbrasquall-- I am an avid keyboard user, but it has prevented me from making the effort to switch to a controller and hence attend Sensei's tournaments in NJ. The controller is useful only in that-- if u never plan on attending a 64 tourney or plan on meeting with experienced friends, then a keyboard is fine. But for all other instances, a controller, ESPECIALLY the actual console 64 one, is recommended.

The recent influx of new players on Kalleira who smash tend to use the Xbox or Ps2 controllers. I understand that they are easier to acquire (and well, you can use them for their actual purposes, no?), so they seem a popular option. I can't say from personal experience that console is any better for the fingers than a 360 or a Ps, but I have never met a top-level smasher who uses one. But I'm sure a few exist here and there

As for the techincal differences, I assume the DI advantage does, in one sense, compensate for the lack of "tilts out of nothing" (as greenblob mentioned). But mostly, these qualities only serve to alter the playstyle of the given smasher. Because keyboard-users can't tilt on command, they tend to change their playstyle such that fastfalling mindgames and edge-guarding are more emphasized than improvised combos. On the other hand, controller users have are able to be more conservative in their movements (especially shorthops, which can be jumped in any number of subtle ways on a controller, but not as much on a keyboard), and tilt-on command, allowing for sudden combos or pokes with high-priority, larger hitbox and often lightning fast tilts (assuming they aren't the juggling kind).


Another small difference I noticed is that Fox's up-B can be sent in only the 8 cardinal directions when using a keyboard-- (up, down, left, right, upright, upleft, downright, downleft), but a controller can be moved between these cardinal 8.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i can't play it with a keyboard.
i can't play anything except FPS with keyboards.
its just unnatural

 

[Dave_Uk]

I use both. When i'm online I use keyboard but I also play alot on the console, and played on console for many years before I even knew you could play online. It took me quite a while to get used to the feel of the KB but now am totally used to it. The main downfall is deff. no short hops and having to 'prepare' your tilt in a lag or whilst in the air, but you get used to this. You get awesome DI; even have had a couple of people online moanin coz they thought I hacked the game or sumin. As box of fox said, you find yourself improving edge guarding and general quick/unpredictive movement. One thing that does piss me off tho is the fact that for some reason when you smash/do your B moves you have to press the direction slightly before you press your A or B key. Anyone else find they have to do this? All too many times have I been in the perfect position to finish someone off with a Usmash or tilt into a combo and ended up spamming pikachus rather crap headbutt. Overall tho i'd say controller is better; short hops are more useful than the improved DI you get off the KB and the KB does have a few little annoyances that can ruin your game occasionally.

 

[Umbrasquall]

You could set the deadzone to like 0 on the controller and you'll get crazy DI too.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Dave, you CAN shorthop on a keyboard, however, you need a key on the KB bound to a "c-button" and not an "up" command. My keyboard setup has two keys for jumping-- my up arrow allows me to jump normally, and my "a" key is bound to a c-button, so when I press the key lightly and quickly, I short-hop. If I press the "a" key too hard, then I simply jump normally (something that often plagues me anyway).

And yes I've noticed that the timing of smashes is more difficult, but I'm used to it now

Also, laptop keyboards are a LOT more difficult to use than a standard desktop keyboard. The keys are too small, cramped, and unsensitive to the touch to be a realistic option.

P.S. Umbra i have no idea what deadzone is, lol...

 

[Umbrasquall]

lol, it's an option for controllers. The lower the deadzone, the more sensitive your controller is. So depending on your controller type, at 0% deadzone it would be hard to walk/tilt, and thus, easier to DI.

 

[Nephiros]

Keyboard are superior. Godlike DI, and who ever said you can't short hop with a kb is my new hero.

Also I don't think I could ever do my sexy shine dances with a controller

 

[Rupus]

I've played Dave many times, and he short hops, so I'm pretty sure that he just meant that it's harder to get used to short hopping with a keyboard than it is with a controller.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Ah, k....yes I can understand that. In fact I used "a" as my shorthop key because its farther away from my hand on the keyboard, so I won't strike the key too hard.

 

[greenblob]

How do keyboard users compensate for the lack of tilting? Does it make that much of a difference? And does the lack of 360 degree control affect the gameplay in any way (other than the obvious Firefox recovery)? How would the keyboard arrow keys compare with the d-pad?

 

[Nephiros]

I can tilt whenever I want without any problem

 

[Thino]

if you can just stand then utilt , you're my hero

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Lol, you can't. Unless you could somehow alter the keyboard in some spectacular way, there is NO way to "tilt out of nothing" per se, as you could on a controller.

As for green's question: the difference is noticeable, but not critical. Although its useful, especially stressful situations, to pull out a sudden ftilt to get the opponent away from you, or start uptilting someone who doesn't attack you correctly from above, I still manage. And most tilts occur after l-cancelling or a move, so... yeah.

As for the lack of 360 control, I've noticed that it prevents people from nailing the drill kicks of Fox/Mario/Luigi/etc perfectly, but this difference is minor.

As for the advantages, beyond just the DI, I find its FAR easier to utilize mindgames with the second jump. One of the common ones I use with pikachu is fastfalling towards an opponent, jumping away from them just at the last moment, so they react with a shield or high priority smash, and then attacking them again in their lag. Many players don't expect a feinted fastfall and then a suddenly re-fastfalled aerial. I

Tis' simple, but it works. Not sure why it works so well, but its one thing that I notice that keyboard users use, while controller users prefer to just shorthop or attack on the first jump... all the time.

 

[Nephiros]

Well obviously you can only do a dtilt out of nothing, but you can do any after any other move or after landing so basically during a match I just can tilt whenever I want and don't feel limited at all, y'see.

And if you're standing and not holding any direction, well, a jab is pretty quick hm? So jab, start holding up and tilt after.

 

[felix45]

yeah I dont think kb users suffer in tilts. granted they could if they were say playing a kirby and were obsessive about utilt spammage, but after that I cant think of any situations with any other characters where you would use a tilt any time aside from after an arial. The easy ability to DI out of everything easily makes up for it pleanty.


I think kb/controler are even in what is good/bad, because the game was clearly meant for controler but kb has great DI ability but suffers in movement a little bit (and tilts).

 

[Dave_Uk]

Tilts definately aern't a problem, ok, it takes a while to get used to it having to 'set them up' as it were but as a major part of ssb is based on prediction of your oppenent you get used to just tilting in a lag or in the air at the right times as and when you want to use it in the next instance.

As for the laptop thing, I do notice a minor improvement when converting to my home PC when I play online, (back in under 2 weeks for 4 months, looking forward to playing everyone again,) but this is prob just due to my laptop being abused over the time i've had it, keys falling off/broken etc. lol. I have my key set up as (Controller = KB): Z=Z , A=X, B=C, R=Space, movement = arrow keys. So as for cramped I guess that's as cramped as you can go lol. But i don't find it cramped and find the closeness of the buttons allow extremely fast movement, etc. which brings me to my next point....

...Shorthops. As you see I don't bother with C buttons on the keyboard, nor have ever tried, the reason being that when I first starting playing with the keyboard I obviously did a bit of a read around to see how people do things and the general consesus was 'no short hops on keyboard' and so never actually tried. Even playing (read getting *****,) by JaimeHR one time he converted half way through our games from controller to keyboard and he stated aswell no short hops, and tbh I took his word for it as obviously he knows his stuff. However, as Meowkitty said I do 'shorthop' online, however I generally say you can't as it's more of a pressing the up key to jump and then a split second after pulling off an aerial as quick as possible, so you get a similar effect, but its nowhere near the same. However, it's what i've settled for and got used to using. I'm bored right now so am gonna give the c buttons a go on the keyboard so will see what happens there. *

Just out of interest, what keyboard layout do you others use? Also box of fox, would be good to have a keyboard-off at some point. Don't think we've played before. You online much? As I said in the next 2 weeks i'll be back online so will be on pretty consistantly 2nd half of may thru september time. Would be good to play.


* Just did it and it indeed works! Wonder why people used to say it didn't. Deffo seems like it's gonna be harder to get used to than with the controller but i'll be doing little else other than boozing and working through summer. Cheers for correcting me.

 

[Nintendude]

Just in case anyone is interested, here's my keyboard configuration:

Analog: WASD (3 middle fingers on left hand)
Z: Left Shift (left pinky)
A: [ (Right middle finger)
B: P (Right pointer finger)
R: \ (Right pinky)
L: Backspace (Right pinky)
C-buttons: 9, 0, -, = (Right middle and pointer fingers)

So, to short-hop, I just shift my right middle finger up to the c-button. For DJCs, I move both my pointer and middle fingers up to the C-buttons and press 2 of them in rapid succession. It's much easier than rapidly pressing the same key twice. To full-jump, I think I use up, though I don't really pay attention to it. It just happens naturally.

I had a certain philosophy when making this control scheme, which was back when I first started playing online. Basically, I wanted to map out the N64 controller on the keyboard. On the N64 controller, the hand (left hand) that controls the analog also controls Z, and (for me) Z does nothing but Z-cancel or grab (with Z + A) out of a Z-cancelled aerial. On the N64 controller, you must move your right thumb up away from A and B to the C-buttons. With this keyboard scheme, the same thing is done but with different fingers. Also, the right hand controls R just like it normally does. Overall, what I use is as close as you can get to an accurate representation of the N64 controller except more fingers are used. I love it, and so do some of the people I showed it too, but some also hate it since they say that they just can't use their pinkies (which are used heavily with this control scheme). Nevertheless, I think any keyboard player should give this control scheme a shot.

This obviously worked for me too, as I have absolutely no problems controlling my character except for human error (like missed Z-cancels sometimes) and standard keyboard limitations such as no control over walking.

Also, this control scheme allows for taunt spam without having to put your right hand in an awkward position

 

[whaahppnd]

if you can just stand then utilt , you're my hero

Neph IS my hero

 

[JaimeHR]

I just can't get used to short hop on the keyboard so i don't do it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I just can't get used to short hop on the keyboard so i don't do it.

How do you play smash without short hopping O.o

 

[JaimeHR]

BEEF!Games xP.

I use a regular N64 Controller, but when some random person says that i win because of my controller then i switch to KB and prove them how wrong they are.

Also another advantage about the KB is that you can jump higher while running.

I tried that on my controller, jumping with the stick while running but i can't go as high as i do with the keyboard... Maybe is just me and i might be doing something wrong there.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

I'm actually on about "now" and in maybe 2-3 hours after now. I reward myself by playing people online between finishing homework subjects ^^...however, the computer I play smash with is slower than my main computer, I'd switch if siblings weren't using it all the time. So when you play me, expect a few lag spikes here or there.

And Jaime I don't think I've ever played you on a KB o.o you've certainly done well with just the controller.

My keyboard setup resembles Daves, except

S key = "R"
A key = "c-button"
D key = Taunt

Also, I "used" to not sh, and played my whole technique around lightning l-cancels and then jumping back up, so that I was rarely on the ground. The only problem is that this is beaten by shield grabbing or high-priority, well timed Upsmashes. So once I learned I could short-hop on the KB, I practiced for a week and then I got used to it. Pikachu's forward-moving SHed Dair is a beauty :D (And you become about 500 times more effective with kirby and jiggly)

 

[ant-d]

What are you on about

You can easily tilt at anytime using keyboard. Use a decent input plugin.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

I don't know how an input plugin would help, but I can assure you that even if it did allow you to "tilt out of nothing", you'd also run into problems when trying to smash or dash-attack instead.

Regardless, thanks for being detailed on what input plugin you specified. ;_;

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

What are you on about

You can easily tilt at anytime using keyboard. Use a decent input plugin.

if you did that...you wouldn't be able to jump

 

[ant-d]

no, you can jump normally. you just need to press the key 'lightly' in order to tilt and press it 'hard' to do smashes.

lol how can you assure me, ' i'll run into problems' when you have never used the plugin which I speak of. I'm telling you there are no problems.

 

[greenblob]

I switched to controller a while ago, but when I'm at the library, I use the KB. My setup is:

WSAD for C (I usually jump with S)
Arrows for control stick
Numpad 0 / Ins for Z
X for A
C for B
Z for R
Shift for L

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Well that's exactly it, ant-d. Now you'd have to completely retrain your hand to press non c-button keys "lightly" in order to tilt, when its perfectly viable to simply tilt after lag or an l-cancel. The advantage of "tilting out of nothing" doesn't rebalance the increased possibility of pressing a key too hard or too soft than you might have intended.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

no, you can jump normally. you just need to press the key 'lightly' in order to tilt and press it 'hard' to do smashes.

lol how can you assure me, ' i'll run into problems' when you have never used the plugin which I speak of. I'm telling you there are no problems.

its a button...buttons don't have a sensitivity, same with d-pad

all I can think of is short hop vs full jump which is just holding the button for longer but that doesn't apply to this

 

[ant-d]

Why do you think i put 'light' and 'hard' in quotations. Of course it's to do with the amount of time you hold the button, just like the C-button. This is obvious.
The keyboard works in the same way.

Retrain? It's extremely easy to tilt at anytime. Maybe it's hard for you or someone else.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

You still haven't specified the input plugin you suggested. If you could tell me, I'd test to see if it were a viable option.

Otherwise, superboom is correct. One cannot simply press the direction or "a" button on a keyboard "lightly" so as to tilt instead of smash.

 

[Dave_Uk]

I think i'd just rather stick with tilting in lags and jumps. It really isn't a hassle once you got the hang of it. The only thing i'm changing of my KB style is adding short hops now I know you can do it. I've opted for the shift button directly above the direction keys. Once I get used to that then I think i'll have a perfect mapping of my controller style onto my KB (with added DI.) So I change my stance on controller vs. KB, I'd have to say KB > controller now.

 

[Thino]

Why do you think i put 'light' and 'hard' in quotations. Of course it's to do with the amount of time you hold the button, just like the C-button. This is obvious.
The keyboard works in the same way.

Retrain? It's extremely easy to tilt at anytime. Maybe it's hard for you or someone else.

man , i should try but it sounds hard. this would require a bit of synchronization not ending up just jabbing or usmashing

 

[cmasterchoe]

i'm sure that if i practiced enough with the keyboard, i could get it to the point where i play similar if not better than how i play on the console. I love playing with my controller but the second i play anybody that lags ever so slightly, it exacerbates the small controller lag thats already built into online play... so until everybody can find a decent broadband ISP it'll basically be a crapshoot from game to game.

 

[ant-d]

You still haven't specified the input plugin you suggested. If you could tell me, I'd test to see if it were a viable option.

Otherwise, superboom is correct. One cannot simply press the direction or "a" button on a keyboard "lightly" so as to tilt instead of smash.

You have never used the plugin. You can change the 'perceived sensitivity' of the tilt as to make it very simple, even for you.

That other guy probably hasn't used the plugin either, which is why he makes a comment which has no basis about the plugin itself, only what I have briefly said.

 

[Rupus]

I switched to controller a while ago, but when I'm at the library, I use the KB. My setup is:

WSAD for C (I usually jump with S)
Arrows for control stick
Numpad 0 / Ins for Z
X for A
C for B
Z for R
Shift for L

O_O How do you get away with playing SSB at the library?! I'd get chucked out as soon as I tried xP

 

[Lord Kirby]

easy. just go to a spot no one usually goes to. then have the laptop face the wall, for it will not be visible to anyone else. of course, dont make noise. lastly, get a book. i love playing at the library. i use a ps3 controller, so at far away, it looks like a camera, because it uses the same wire. i get on a large table, so i can put the controller in front of my laptop. when im done with a match, i grab my book and pretend that im reading it, then start typing, making it look like im researching.