King Omega
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 388
The Star King said:
Whatever.
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Keyboard to N64 Adapter
- Thread starter cmu6eh
- Start date
Whatever.
There is a reason why people can search whether others have macros on and why we sometimes badmouth others who either use macros or seem like they use macros. People tend to avoid playing those online who use macros.
King Omega
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 388
That's because "macros" carries with it the negative connotation of being able to do impossible things (DI macros) or simplify things (auto shine cancel). This is not the same thing as providing a 1-to-1 analogous input such as short hop or reduced-range uair.
Personally, I think the argument that a short hop macro is unfair because "a real player might mess it up" is downright stupid.
Tourneys are different from casual play, and it would be up to the TO what to ban, but not wanting to play against someone online because they have a "short hop button" is ridiculous.
Personally, I think the argument that a short hop macro is unfair because "a real player might mess it up" is downright stupid.
Tourneys are different from casual play, and it would be up to the TO what to ban, but not wanting to play against someone online because they have a "short hop button" is ridiculous.
ballin4life
Smash Hero
I think a tournament with macros allowed would be kinda cool. If I were remaking smash64 I would definitely make it an option to map a button to only be for short hops - so you could have like left c and down c be short hop and the other c buttons be full hop.
However since we aren't going to force everyone to buy N64 controllers that have macros, macros shouldn't be allowed in a console tourney.
However since we aren't going to force everyone to buy N64 controllers that have macros, macros shouldn't be allowed in a console tourney.
B Link
Smash Lord
All types of macros should be allowed. That way the console scene would completely resemble the online scene 
Define the difference between these two things. Isn't allowing a person to short hop every time a form of simplifying things?
TheMagistrate
Smash Apprentice
please do clarify on the "stupidity."
being able to SH on command without risk of a mistake, is highly advantageous to the player.
how do you not comprehend the unfairness?
King Omega
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 388
@Koro: The difference is obvious. Condensing multiple inputs to a single input is unfair because then the keyboard user does have it easier (and faster) than someone using a controller. The advantage gained by turning a "fallible" single input into an "infallible" single input, however, is negligible in the case of short hop. Like Mint says, I don't think I ever mess that up.
@TheMagistrate: I had a longer post in progress before Chrome randomly closed on me.
It's not "highly" advantageous, it's negligibly advantageous. If you're trying to differentiate the inputs between a stick user's "all the way up" or "not all the way up" vs. a keyboard user's single input, you shouldn't be allowing keyboards at all because ALL actions are performed by uniform key presses instead of diverse controller input (triggers, sticks, buttons).
A keyboard user having one key that simulates stick at 100% range and another that simulates 50% range IS analogous to the way a controller user inputs, if not actually WORSE because they don't have every percentage in between. It's no easier to do and if we're going with this ridiculous triviality of an argument that they can't mess up their short hops, then that's still wrong, because they might hit the wrong goddamn key.
@chain-ace: It's not less input. It's one to one.
@TheMagistrate: I had a longer post in progress before Chrome randomly closed on me.
It's not "highly" advantageous, it's negligibly advantageous. If you're trying to differentiate the inputs between a stick user's "all the way up" or "not all the way up" vs. a keyboard user's single input, you shouldn't be allowing keyboards at all because ALL actions are performed by uniform key presses instead of diverse controller input (triggers, sticks, buttons).
A keyboard user having one key that simulates stick at 100% range and another that simulates 50% range IS analogous to the way a controller user inputs, if not actually WORSE because they don't have every percentage in between. It's no easier to do and if we're going with this ridiculous triviality of an argument that they can't mess up their short hops, then that's still wrong, because they might hit the wrong goddamn key.
@chain-ace: It's not less input. It's one to one.
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
I don't miss short hops tho
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Part of being good at this game is being able to perform consistently well in high pressure and mentally exhausting situations. Making fundamental tech skill easier with macros would take away from this.
King Omega
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 388
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. People still complain about the C-stick.
Anyway, I think it's a perfectly reasonable TO decision to just say "no macros" and have controllers mapped only to buttons that exist on the N64 controller. (Although in that case, you should really demand that the stick not be mapped at all in favor of the D-pad, because a keyboard doing a stick full hop on command should be considered as unfair as doing a short hop.) However, I can only see that from a practical better-safe-than-sorry standpoint and not from a "we don't want anybody short hopping without fail" standpoint.
Anyway, I think it's a perfectly reasonable TO decision to just say "no macros" and have controllers mapped only to buttons that exist on the N64 controller. (Although in that case, you should really demand that the stick not be mapped at all in favor of the D-pad, because a keyboard doing a stick full hop on command should be considered as unfair as doing a short hop.) However, I can only see that from a practical better-safe-than-sorry standpoint and not from a "we don't want anybody short hopping without fail" standpoint.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
this
not having the chance of screwing up is very unfair. everyone misses shorthops, everyone misses zcancels from time to time. it's just human error.
lolthis.
I've seen competitive matches between the best people in the world in every smash game and most other games. It comes down to input error in many of the games, even something as simple as a missed z-cancel/short hop, and it is rather exciting seeing someone make a mistake and the other person rushes in to capitalize. I personally lost a stock or 2 at Apex in multiple matches due to tech skill blunders.
On another note, it isn't just
It is more than that. It is really, "instead of having to properly time how light I hit the c-stick in order to short hop, I just have to press a button at any strength and magically float an inch above the ground"
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
Squash you crazy man. Doesn't matter how little advantageous it is--if its an advantageous macro, its obviously going to be banned. You can say its negligible, everyone else says its not, but in the end we all agree it is an advantage. This is not a better safe than sorry situation, its just that a clear advantage of ANY magnitude won't be allowed in competitive play.
King Omega
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 388
Yeah, maybe I'm crazy.
ballin4life
Smash Hero
Can you fox SHDL or mario dair uair with 100% accuracy? I know I screw these up by full hopping sometimes. These techniques would both be much easier if you had a button mapped to short hop rather than having to focus on both short hopping and button sliding simultaneously.
Still some bugs to work out. I'm tired of this for now, and I got to drive to NJ tomorrow after work so it won't be ready by this weekend.
http://youtu.be/_yfucXW2K9E
http://youtu.be/_yfucXW2K9E
Current problems:
1) The emulator plugin is returning crap for its X and Y position. maybe it is plugin dependent, maybe they are storing it differently (as signed vs unsigned) This will be easy to fix.
2) The part that processes the serial communication from the computer is kinda slow and so the micro-controller misses some requests and drops out. You can't control anything on the menus cause of this, but switching controller ports after you start playing makes it work fine. I can make this subroutine faster, and/or i can send the data from the computer over ethernet entirely contained in UDP packets so there is less idle time in the mico-controller processor.
Funny thing was that at one point my signal was corrupted and part of the bits was off by 0.25 microseconds. It caused random button presses to happen, and the stupid thing deleted all my smash bros data.
1) The emulator plugin is returning crap for its X and Y position. maybe it is plugin dependent, maybe they are storing it differently (as signed vs unsigned) This will be easy to fix.
2) The part that processes the serial communication from the computer is kinda slow and so the micro-controller misses some requests and drops out. You can't control anything on the menus cause of this, but switching controller ports after you start playing makes it work fine. I can make this subroutine faster, and/or i can send the data from the computer over ethernet entirely contained in UDP packets so there is less idle time in the mico-controller processor.
Funny thing was that at one point my signal was corrupted and part of the bits was off by 0.25 microseconds. It caused random button presses to happen, and the stupid thing deleted all my smash bros data.
\\Killer//
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 377
Go to edit, more options, option to change thread title on top.
B Link
Smash Lord
So can legit kb tournies happen now?
It's time for the kb player tier list to finally become a reality.
It's time for the kb player tier list to finally become a reality.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Why would you need a macro to short hop? It's not like it was a keyboard issue.
The theoretical best way to DI on keyboard is to hold the direction you want to DI to and alternate the adjacent direction. Example: I want to DI left. I hold left and I mash up, then down, then up, etc. (while always holding left). This is what gives the more distance per input, but this does not mean it is better than a solution giving more inputs per time...
The theoretical best way to DI on keyboard is to hold the direction you want to DI to and alternate the adjacent direction. Example: I want to DI left. I hold left and I mash up, then down, then up, etc. (while always holding left). This is what gives the more distance per input, but this does not mean it is better than a solution giving more inputs per time...
So the controller part can communicate over the internet now, it took like 10 minutes to do that lol. I just got to change the program on my side to send the controller states via ethernet and then i have wireless capability 