Keyboard Samus

[Surri-Sama]

Ok, so obviously on console this is not a problem doesn’t matter, but online there are people who play smash64 using keyboard. Now before you people start going “omg johnz nub lern 2 play ffs” I do know how to play, and anyone who thinks what I am saying is wrong...is an IDIOT.

Most people know, Samus is very floaty and is hard to combo even on console, but people who play Keyboard have something else working in their favor as well, the DI.

I lose very often to people who play Samus using Keyboard…and I am wondering how do I fix this.

Generally combos don’t work. (Samus can escape after one Utilt from pika ALL THE TIME) finishers are hard to connect because of this, and if that Samus plays defensively (using lots of projectiles and camping with Bair) how do I attack?

From time to time I can get some combos on Samus, but this is only when the other player fails to DI the right way…and this is very frustrating.

I came to notice this as my main weakness when I was playing “Nintendude-MC” yesterday, and he almost three stocked my Pikachu with his Samus (and no offence to him, but he is not that far ahead of me in skill, and Pikachu vs Samus normally is not that hard of a match-up) I stopped and tried to think about it, but could not come up with a solution

If anyone knows a good way to approach and defeat a Keys playing Samus, post here….how do YOU deal with this situation?

 

[NixxxoN]

Improve your mindgames then xP

I think Mario and Luigi do well against Samus. You can do fast combos finishing with a firepunch with Luigi.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Improve your mindgames then xP

I think Mario and Luigi do well against Samus. You can do fast combos finishing with a firepunch with Luigi.

Doubt it, Uair chains dont work, not consistently anyways

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

samus vs Pikachu is actually fine, i use Samus and have come close or have beaten many really good pikachu's without even short hopping.

Fox is samus's biggest weakness
Lasers over samus camping and Samus sucks vs any good projectile user (in my opinion, the only REALLY horrible matchup for samus besides maybe luigi).
Also, falcon does well (back air, throw to f-air or up air......)

 

[Surri-Sama]

samus vs Pikachu is actually fine, i use Samus and have come close or have beaten many really good pikachu's without even short hopping.

Fox is samus's biggest weakness
Lasers over samus camping and Samus sucks vs any good projectile user (in my opinion, the only REALLY horrible matchup for samus besides maybe luigi).
Also, falcon does well (back air, throw to f-air or up air......)

I know about pikachu, thats what i mean, pika vs Samus, is pretty even so i shouldnt win/lose by any more then the average amount.

I have not tried fox really, but i think you're right ahah thanks

And that falcon combo doesnt really work, and even if it does..its like 3-4 hits...thats not very good >_<

 

[Skrlx]

i hate playing good samus players..

BUT you can try giving that pikachu some steroids before the match

 

[Wenbobular]

Isn't Nintendude quite good?
Also, Fair Fox chains, try those. Or Bairs.

 

[MattNF]

step 1: use fox
step 2: spam laser and fair and stuffz
step 3: ???
step 4: PROFIT
step 5: eat delicious cake

 

[Nintendude]

All you have to do against a Samus is camp and spam. Link and Fox are both horrible matchups for Samus because of how well they camp her and how quickly they kill her. Falcon is another good choice because he can overwhelm her. Luigi vs. Samus is more balanced than people think it is.

You probably also have a hard time with my Samus because it is a lot different than the others out there. I incorporate a lot of tricky traps and force you into situations you don't want to be in, and am generally a lot more creative than typical Samuses who spam aerials and hope you run into them.

I think you overestimate my DI as well. Keyboard DI mainly reduces difficulty and improves consistency, not effectiveness. Samus is just really good at escaping combos; it is not the keyboard. If I'm escaping your up-tilts, then why are you up-tilting me repeatedly? Up-tilt into aerials instead.

 

[Surri-Sama]

All you have to do against a Samus is camp and spam. Link and Fox are both horrible matchups for Samus because of how well they camp her and how quickly they kill her. Falcon is another good choice because he can overwhelm her. Luigi vs. Samus is more balanced than people think it is.

You probably also have a hard time with my Samus because it is a lot different than the others out there. I incorporate a lot of tricky traps and force you into situations you don't want to be in, and am generally a lot more creative than typical Samuses who spam aerials and hope you run into them.

I think you overestimate my DI as well. Keyboard DI mainly reduces difficulty and improves consistency, not effectiveness. Samus is just really good at escaping combos; it is not the keyboard. If I'm escaping your up-tilts, then why are you up-tilting me repeatedly? Up-tilt into aerials instead.

I Utilt to often because i play console with my friends often so im more used to things that work there then i am on keys...

Utilt to aerials is ok but it doesnt do the damage i like to see

i remember one very specific time when I was fox and my jab connected but you where able to DI away from, my Slide Usmash...that made me sigh xP

You are very good though, better then i am, so playing you is fun regardless

 

[Nintendude]

I Utilt to often because i play console with my friends often so im more used to things that work there then i am on keys...

Utilt to aerials is ok but it doesnt do the damage i like to see

i remember one very specific time when I was fox and my jab connected but you where able to DI away from, my Slide Usmash...that made me sigh xP

You are very good though, better then i am, so playing you is fun regardless

Yeah, I notice you like to to up-tilt into grab back-throw for damage/situational advantage/ situational combos but that's not the best Pikachu can do. Up-tilt is a perfect setup for those deadly uair -> bair/nair chains off the stage.

That jab DI was hilarious but I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to the keyboard. I just happened to press to the right at the exact right time =p

 

[Darth Rancorous]

i like to stick to the console samus because it eliminates all of this confusion ;-P

 

[Lawrencelot]

Use Fox.

10lasers/fairs

 

[evan rules]

Just tell her she's a skank. Women have low self-esteems. That's the best way to counter Samus imo. Beat her mentally and physically she will fall apart. For a finisher, try a sexist line like, "Bake me a pie!" or "get back in the kitchen!"

 

[Winston]

Just tell her she's a skank. Women have low self-esteems. That's the best way to counter Samus imo. Beat her mentally and physically she will fall apart. For a finisher, try a sexist line like, "Bake me a pie!" or "get back in the kitchen!"

LOL man

what a champion

 

[Surri-Sama]

Yeah, I notice you like to to up-tilt into grab back-throw for damage/situational advantage/ situational combos but that's not the best Pikachu can do. Up-tilt is a perfect setup for those deadly uair -> bair/nair chains off the stage.

That jab DI was hilarious but I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to the keyboard. I just happened to press to the right at the exact right time =p

I know about the Uair chains...but personally i find it VERY hard to do on Dpad D:

i can do them on console but...sigh...fake smash wont let me

 

[Jigglymaster]

I played against Nintendude in a tournament match online. Even though I main Jiggs I picked Pikachu to try beating his samus. He won but you can see how I made it a close match.

Jigglymaster(Pika) vs Nintendude(Samus) on Kongo Jungle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0nqL_sEoHI

Jigglymaster(Pika) vs Nintendude(Samus) on Hyrule
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8A5roUaqE

 

[Nintendude]

Jigglymaster, those matches are over a year old. My Samus's style and move usage have changed considerably since those were recorded. You ought to play me again to see what I mean.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Jigglymaster, those matches are over a year old. My Samus's style and move usage have changed considerably since those were recorded. You ought to play me again to see what I mean.

Oh, I just was browsing through the topic and saw he needed help against you and I had videos to show.

Anyways I quit playing SSB and SSBM. All I play now is Brawl and I couldn't even play ssb if I wanted to cause my desktop with my ssb game on it is broken.

 

[Zen Yore]

nintendude

so u rly believe that my fox is gud ?


PS : im vaxany

 

[MattNF]

All I play now is Brawl

I'm sorry to hear that

 

[Deleted member]

I'm 99% sure you are having trouble against Nintendude lol and no other Samus KB person


Almost every character you can use has an advantage against Samus. Most likely you are being too impatient and you rush in and get counter-attacked.

Your combos are probably not the typical **** level of Pikachu's mega death combos. You are probably getting predicted easily so the point where enough damage build up (~90%) makes a Samus smack down lead to a b-air death.

Samus is also fairly decent at getting out of combos if your timing isn't too good with Pika's less damaging, combo moves such as up-air and stuff, you can simply use his "combo finisher moves" to smack Samus around and tech chase accordingly.

And also, Keyboard DI has a limit, despite being easier and more consistent to use. I can DI really easily to the right (and look really gay while doing it) with controller by mashing right really quickly. Left, on the other hand, is really difficult and I also set my deadzone wrong for left. Anyways you just need to set up combos so that no matter how much they smash DI, you can still smack them anyways with more hits. It's definitely possible with Pikachu since Nintendude's DI isn't autofire hacker DI level like some dude named Virus


Samus, when faced correctly, is very, very defeatable. That samus will need some good tech chases, mind games, and the messing up of the other opponent to get wins or also be more patient than the opponent. I personally try to play patient until I just want to finish the match and simply become more aggressive, simply wanting to win and not caring about number of stocks taken.

Samus vs Pikachu is not a very close matchup at all. It's just that most Pikachu's simply cannot play Pikachu at a high level correctly and instead opt to use --> dashdance b-throw, up -tilts, 1 aerial attack instead of linking up-airs to an aerial, throw off stage to f-smash f-smash f-smash f-smash. Most don't even know that you can do 2 aerials in one short hop with Pika


I'd also suggest simply learning how to play Samus himself. He is very easy to learn and you can really see what his strengths/ weaknesses are so that when you fight against other Samuses, you know what to do (more than before usually).

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Capt bj is right about 99.99% of smash 64 players not playing pikachu well enough, suprisingly this includes boom and alancitu in my books, despite their incredible skill with the rest of the cast, for example I find boom's luigi is more beef than his pika.

 

[Winston]

Capt bj is right about 99.99% of smash 64 players not playing pikachu well enough, suprisingly this includes boom and alancitu in my books, despite their incredible skill with the rest of the cast, for example I find boom's luigi is more beef than his pika.

Lol that's what boom said himself in one of the comments on his videos. xD

It's easy to play a decent pikachu but hard to play a **** pikachu

 

[Surri-Sama]

I'd also suggest simply learning how to play Samus himself. He is very easy to learn and you can really see what his strengths/ weaknesses are so that when you fight against other Samuses, you know what to do (more than before usually).

thanks for the advice...but ahahah

and I do know pika can use 2 Uairs in one SH ;D..im just not able to do that online :|

also i dont think my Pikachu is simply average...give me a bit more credit then that D:

 

[Skrlx]

It's definitely possible with Pikachu since Nintendude's DI isn't autofire hacker DI level like some dude named Virus

Wow. you are pretty dumb
If you call gamecube DI hacker di well you are dumb
ask anyone my DI is far from being autofire DI sure it's a bit above normal but still.
You are blowing the DI out of proportion do you remember the last time we played? not that time where you said you utilted and i flew six inches that's when i had the deadzone ****ed and i was asked to reduce it.

You might as well call Nintendude a di hacker since he has keyboard

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I know about the Uair chains...but personally i find it VERY hard to do on Dpad D:

i can do them on console but...sigh...fake smash wont let me

No, you can do them online man you need a real controller.

I played ONLY d-pad so far on ssb64 kaillera, the only characters possible, really, are falcon and jiggly, my falcon on d-pad could keep up with, but was under the level of fireblasters, were I on n64 controller I would probably be a lot closer to his level with falcon.

Dpad = no tilts

no tilts = significantly reduced ability to combo in all areas with anyone but falcon, jiggly... bread and butter combos, although with falcon on dpad you can do a lot and can buffer shuairs by holding up as you grab someone, then tapping forwards after a fthrow, short hop, and press A. If you were to short hop and press up on dpad without "buffering" it, you would double jump.

To beat this samus player with great DI you need a new controller online man, with a tilt sensitive stick. xbox, ps2, gc, n64, doesnt matter. Ya need the tilts.

 

[Surri-Sama]

No, you can do them online man you need a real controller.

I played ONLY d-pad so far on ssb64 kaillera, the only characters possible, really, are falcon and jiggly, my falcon on d-pad could keep up with, but was under the level of fireblasters, were I on n64 controller I would probably be a lot closer to his level with falcon.

Dpad = no tilts

no tilts = significantly reduced ability to combo in all areas with anyone but falcon, jiggly... bread and butter combos, although with falcon on dpad you can do a lot and can buffer shuairs by holding up as you grab someone, then tapping forwards after a fthrow, short hop, and press A. If you were to short hop and press up on dpad without "buffering" it, you would double jump.

To beat this samus player with great DI you need a new controller online man, with a tilt sensitive stick. xbox, ps2, gc, n64, doesnt matter. Ya need the tilts.

I have an N64 controller adapter...to bad it doesn't work with any of my ok controllers =.=

 

[Blackshadow]

I play keyboard and short hop double aerials with Pika are easy, and I don't even play Pika.

No johns.

 

[Superstar]

Can you take your bad one and adjust the sensitivity till comfortable? I dunno, try it.

PS2 controller has stick in awkward area. And I hear that's the one Surri has.

 

[Winston]

By D-pad you mean keyboard, right? Or am I missing something here?

 

[Nintendude]

No, you can do them online man you need a real controller.

I played ONLY d-pad so far on ssb64 kaillera, the only characters possible, really, are falcon and jiggly, my falcon on d-pad could keep up with, but was under the level of fireblasters, were I on n64 controller I would probably be a lot closer to his level with falcon.

Dpad = no tilts

no tilts = significantly reduced ability to combo in all areas with anyone but falcon, jiggly... bread and butter combos, although with falcon on dpad you can do a lot and can buffer shuairs by holding up as you grab someone, then tapping forwards after a fthrow, short hop, and press A. If you were to short hop and press up on dpad without "buffering" it, you would double jump.

To beat this samus player with great DI you need a new controller online man, with a tilt sensitive stick. xbox, ps2, gc, n64, doesnt matter. Ya need the tilts.

Keyboard isn't as limited with tilts as you think. You just have to think and prepare ahead to hold the direction during a time where your character is already doing something. There are very few actions I have trouble doing on keyboard.

 

[Superstar]

However, on the fly actions are very difficult. Those with reaction tilts are outta luck. Say Mario. I CAN do every action with KB, like fastfalling uairs, but most of your hits have to be planned on KB. I'd like to be able to do it whenever, planned or reaction.

 

[MattNF]

Keyboard isn't as limited with tilts as you think. You just have to think and prepare ahead to hold the direction during a time where your character is already doing something. There are very few actions I have trouble doing on keyboard.

I agree. As long as you plan ahead, you shouldn't have problems doing anything on keyboard. In fact, Keyboard can actually have some advantages (other than DI). I found Jiggly's teleport extremely easy to do on keyboard, so easy that I would do it just about every time I dashed. It's a bit harder on controller.

 

[Nintendude]

However, on the fly actions are very difficult. Those with reaction tilts are outta luck. Say Mario. I CAN do every action with KB, like fastfalling uairs, but most of your hits have to be planned on KB. I'd like to be able to do it whenever, planned or reaction.

Planning hits actually makes you a better player. You learn to think ahead and analyze the situation and you/your opponent's options, just like a good chess player would do.

MattNF how do you do the Jiggly slide?

 

[Superstar]

It may, but it's an unnecessary handicap. And using aerial uairs to set up combos with Mario isn't any easy on KB unless you've been holding up since the last dair/nair/bair. >_<

Actually, planning tilts is no problem. The uairs are the main problem. Shorthop aerials, fastfalled all around.

 

[Skrlx]

It may, but it's an unnecessary handicap. And using aerial uairs to set up combos with Mario isn't any easy on KB unless you've been holding up since the last dair/nair/bair. >_<

Actually, planning tilts is no problem. The uairs are the main problem. Shorthop aerials, fastfalled all around.

did you call?
oh, haaha

Nintendude is pretty much right on the keyboard dilemma. I started out on keyboard and the first thing you have to master is knowing when to hold keys so that you can do tilts and other various stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys are on crack. Nintendude's DI is not even that insane as you guys make it out to be. Dair's on the other hand used to be so wild that, i'll mention this again for the 5th time on my secret alt Yoshizilla, I ground pounded him in Hyrule next to the house at death percentage against his Fox and he went halfway across the screen to underneath the house to not die a sky death.


I also don't really know why you are trying to cover up the fact that you used to hack when you say stuff like "i changed my ways now, instead of Virus, I'm Near." Yeah you don't hack your DI anymore but you definitely used to.

As far as Keyboard playing goes, it really is good enough to play smash online with most of the cast. Me, Nintendude, and Nephiros were the 3 best pure KB players and we did pretty good, I think Nintendude is still the only KB player hahah. Priming tilts aren't really that hard and you learn to be more minimalistic rather than spam your moves. The things I don't like about it are is that you can't do stuff like fastfall Up-air or dropping through a platform while up airing (same thing).

 

[Surri-Sama]

You guys are on crack. Nintendude's DI is not even that insane as you guys make it out to be. .

who is you guys...

i never said it was "insane"..it is Keys DI, thats all I meant

as for tilts and such, i never said it was "impossible" i said i cant do them (btw i use D-Pad on a ps3 controller NOT KEYS)

I am far more used to the N64 controller for advanced combos...and I !!!personally!!! find it hard to do Uair chains online...

is it because of delay¿?...controller¿?....lag¿?...who knows


Also BJ, dont bother with Yoshi Wrath, he is a lost cause

 

[Lawrencelot]

Me, Nintendude, and Nephiros were the 3 best pure KB players and we did pretty good, I think Nintendude is still the only KB player hahah.

You never fought me did you... and Mad-Fighter is also a kb player but he doesn't fight Americans. I do, and I can agree that the limitations of kb aren't that big. If you look at me fighting you'll notice almost no different with controller users. Things that are not possible with kb:
-uairs while falling through a platform (decent issue)
-doing tilts out of nothing (very small issue, I'm rarely doing nothing and when I am I was already holding up to wait for an approach)
-more than 8 directions for an upB (very big issue with fox, decent issue with pika, no issue with other chars)
-walking slowly (very small issue)

Am I missing something here?