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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

JaidynReiman

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Also as of yet we don't have a SNES rep, K.Rool is the main newcomer other than Dixie that fills that void(Ridley is a NES rep, despite his 'modern' appearance stemming from super Metroid
I don't like this arbitrary notion of requiring a "rep" for certain consoles. Besides, we've got plenty of reps from those games, just not newcomers.

The one legit argument I might bring up is a handheld-exclusive character. We've never had a handheld-exclusive playable character in Smash Bros. to date, and no franchises that originated in the GBA era have been in either. There have been characters and franchises originating from other consoles, but the GBA and potentially DS era are currently unrepped. But even that doesn't mean anything.


I am beginning to see why we don't remember when was the last time this thread had a detractor. It's like fighting Hydra...I present an opinion that is not favorable to K. Rool and three more posters quote me with counter arguments.
Because you're trying to come up with some arbitrary excuse as to why K. Rool can't be in the game. Your arguments are completely and totally invalid. Even if K. Rool ISN'T playable in the game, it wouldn't have anything to do with any of the reasons you suggested.
 

BowserK.Rool

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As said in every other major character support thread:

You're coming into a place where every regular poster is in agreement about the character they're discussing, and you blatantly go out of your way to poke the bear.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GONNA HAPPEN?!
I rarley use the the word "common sense" but in this type of situation, I'll make an exception for it.
 

BKupa666

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Game time. . .let's come up with reasons why characters were definitely, 100% added for which as much supporting evidence exists as "relevance."

Villager: Wouldn't have happened if Sakurai didn't really love little children and want to show them his chimp named Bubbles.
Mega Man: Happened because Nintendo has a long-term master plan to buy Capcom and create Mega Man: Live and Reloaded.
WFT: Wouldn't have happened if Sakurai didn't have fetishes for yoga pants and for bare feet.
Rosalina: Happened because Sakurai "wants more female reps."

Feel free to add on.

Firstly we don't know if that's the extent of DK content. I for one think we're definitely getting at least one new stage. Secondly, if it is all the content we're getting then the Kritters make even more sense to give some semblance of representation.
Exactly, if the only representation it gets is one token new stage, maybe a token new AT, anything more than the bare minimum is significant, especially if it's the only enemy in the mode not to be in a "muhrelevant" game.
 
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Arcadenik

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It's a K. Rool thread what do you expect? you and many others would do the same thing if we were detracting the Duck Hunt Dog Thread.
They usually bring up the "cannot fight/no moves" argument and PETA... but I find it pointless to counter those arguments when Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are doing a fine job debunking those arguments... and who cares about PETA.

Look, if K. Rool is in the game as a playable character, that's fine with me. I don't mind him. It's just that I felt that, based on my personal observations, relevancy and recency had some merit for franchises that are not retro. I was trying to be objective.
 
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I see you're using shotgun argumentation.

Duck Hunt Dog... he is the NES-era character of SSB4... just like how Ice Climbers were for Melee and R.O.B. was for Brawl... no relevancy/recency needed, just needs to be unique

Little Mac... yeah, he had a new game in 2009... which was in the middle of the Wii era (the previous generation)

Mr. Game & Watch... when he was added in Melee, he had recent games for the Game Boy... Game & Watch Gallery 1-3... and he's a veteran now (he didn't get cut because he had no issues like the Ice Climbers do)

Mega Man and Pac-Man... they still had history with Nintendo regardless

Dr. Mario... no new games since the 90s? You're really ignorant of Dr. Mario 64 (2001), Dr. Mario Online Rx (2008), and Dr. Luigi (2013)... they are still part of the Dr. Mario series.

Sheik... she's a veteran... and she was in Ocarina of Time 3D (2011) unless you are one of those people who say remakes don't count... oh, and she's also in Hyrule Warriors (2014) which Nintendo is heavily promoting

Olimar... he was in Pikmin 3... he's a playable character via DLC... and he's a veteran with no issues like the Ice Climbers.
Ok I was wrong on some of those. Sorry, don't be mad with me. :(

I think your missing my point here. I was replying to someone who said that this game was just a big advertisement for new Nintendo games. I was trying to prove to him that characters don't have to have a new game to be a character.
 
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Dre89

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"But K. Rool hasn't been DK's main antagonist since 2008, he's not relevant, he won't be playable in the game."


Its literally the exact same argument.
No it's not. Kremlings have been implemented in a context where every franchise is getting enemy rep. At the time of development DK only had two viable options for enemies and both got implemented. It's unlikely that Sakurai looked at the Kremlings and pondered how to implement them in the game. Instead what probably happened is that he knew he had to add DK enemies and he realised that Kremlings are one of two options he had. The fact he decided to go with the Tikis as well suggests he was probably just going for the general enemybase rather than making a point of just using the Kremlings as if to say that they are the true DK enemies.

There's no equivalent context for K. Rool. It's not like there's a rule where every franchise has to have it's most recurring villain playable (although that probably would be a good rule). He could be playable but I don't think this counts as a legitimate indicator.
 
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Arcadenik

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Ok I was wrong on some of those. Sorry, don't be mad with me. :(

I think your missing my point here. I was replying to someone who said that this game was just a big advertisement for new Nintendo games.
I personally see it a hall of fame... noting Nintendo's achievements in the years after Brawl... which were some of the biggest titles in the last generation?

Animal Crossing games
Wii Fit games
Super Mario Galaxy games
Punch-Out!! Wii (they revived this franchise after 15 years!)
Pokemon games
Mii games
Kid Icarus Uprising (Sakurai revived Kid Icarus after 20+ years!)
Fire Emblem Awakening (it saved Fire Emblem series!)
Xenoblade Chronicles (Operation Rainfall was a success!)
New Super Mario Bros. games
 

Kickback

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They usually bring up the "cannot fight/no moves" argument and PETA... but I find it pointless to counter those arguments when Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are doing a fine job debunking those arguments... and who cares about PETA.

Look, if K. Rool is in the game as a playable character, that's fine with me. I don't mind him. It's just that I felt that, based on my personal observations, relevancy and recency had some merit for franchises that are not retro. I was trying to be objective.
So what you are saying is that game and watch era and nes :any character in that era can be playable even if they havent been in a game in billion years?
snes - gamecube era: can't have character representation unless said character is in a recent game or already in smash?
Wii - Wii U era : anything goes ( spin of series don't count)

Also the first post you made wasn't objective it was full of snark
 
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I personally see it a hall of fame... noting Nintendo's achievements in the years after Brawl... which were some of the biggest titles in the last generation?

Animal Crossing games
Wii Fit games
Super Mario Galaxy games
Punch-Out!! Wii (they revived this franchise after 15 years!)
Pokemon games
Mii games
Kid Icarus Uprising (Sakurai revived Kid Icarus after 20+ years!)
Fire Emblem Awakening (it saved Fire Emblem series!)
Xenoblade Chronicles (Operation Rainfall was a success!)
New Super Mario Bros. games
I would agree with that.

However, characters like Dr.Mario, Mr Game and Watch, Duck Hunt Dog and even R.O.B. prove that you don't have to be relevant to be a fighter. Of course Smash has technically made Dr.Mario, R.O.B. and Mr Game and Watch relevant again. It still doesn't take away from the fact that these characters have not been seen for a while in their own games. Yet here they are in Smash 4! K.Rool doesn't have to be relevant to be a fighter.
 
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BKupa666

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No it's not. Kremlings have been implemented in a context where every franchise is getting enemy rep. At the time of development DK only had two viable options for enemies and both got implemented. It's unlikely that Sakurai looked at the Kremlings and pondered how to implement them in the game. Instead what probably happened is that he knew he had to add DK enemies and he realised that Kremlings are one of two options he had. The fact he decided to go with the Tikis as well suggests he was probably just going for the general enemybase rather than making a point of just using the Kremlings as if to say that they are the true DK enemies.

There's no equivalent context for K. Rool. It's not like there's a rule where every franchise has to have it's most recurring villain playable (although that probably would be a good rule). He could be playable but I don't think this counts as a legitimate indicator.
Except the bolded isn't true at all, from what we've seen. Nothing from Star Fox, nothing from F-Zero, nothing from Wario, Fire Emblem, multiple retro and new series, and so on. Sure, "we haven't seen everything yet," but that excuse dies in a week, and not every series will have content hidden away everywhere we don't currently see it. Someone's getting the short end of the stick, and it's not Donkey Kong (at least in Smash Run), specifically its Rare era, even though "Kritters are irrelevant" is a ridiculously easy excuse to throw out as far as just using multiple Tiki variants and calling it a day, before adding in another dozen Uprising enemies.

Also, I don't understand why it's a Herculean task for people to consider, maybe, a "new" character didn't get in because they're "new," a reason Sakurai has never, ever advocated and has outright contradicted multiple times, but because they're unique, a reason Sakurai has gone out of his way to mention in the majority of interviews he does, they just didn't exist in 2005 or earlier for Brawl consideration.
 
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Opossum

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Did you just say something optimistic?
If it helps, I didn't find it optimistic. :(

But anyway, though I will support the king to the grave, my confidence in him is notably shaken. Heck, my confidence in any-non-leaked-newcomer-except-maybe-Chorus-Kids-but-still-even-then has been shaken...
 

Briokinho

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Game time. . .let's come up with reasons why characters were definitely, 100% added for which as much supporting evidence exists as "relevance."

Villager: Wouldn't have happened if Sakurai didn't really love little children and want to show them his chimp named Bubbles.
Mega Man: Happened because Nintendo has a long-term master plan to buy Capcom and create Mega Man: Live and Reloaded.
WFT: Wouldn't have happened if Sakurai didn't have fetishes for yoga pants and for bare feet.
Rosalina: Happened because Sakurai "wants more female reps."

Feel free to add on.
Dark Pit: Uprising is the game of the generation, deserving absurd ammounts of representation. And smash is in dire need of this dark and edgy badass who is tottaly not a clone of Pit.
 

BlitznBurst

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I am beginning to see why we don't remember when was the last time this thread had a detractor. It's like fighting Hydra...I present an opinion that is not favorable to K. Rool and three more posters quote me with counter arguments.
Whoa whoa whoa, you mean people come to these forums to discuss their differing opinions? And that posting an opposing opinion in a topic made for people who hold a certain opinion will cause the people whose opinions you are opposing to argue their own opinions in response?

Like seriously man, this is a K. Rool support thread. It is going to be filled with K. Rool supporters. Why would you come here to argue with K. Rool fans and not expect them to argue back? What the **** were you expecting?
 
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The Light Music Club

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I was just in the bathroom and I totally just remembered that I am unable to comprehend why they haven't remade Donkey Kong 64 for the 3DS. Wasn't the 3DS gonna be like the prime place to bring N64 remakes? Putting King K in smash would be the perfect chance to start marketing it.
 

JaidynReiman

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I was just in the bathroom and I totally just remembered that I am unable to comprehend why they haven't remade Donkey Kong 64 for the 3DS. Wasn't the 3DS gonna be like the prime place to bring N64 remakes? Putting King K in smash would be the perfect chance to start marketing it.
For all we know, they probably are. They're just not going to announce it until they announce K. Rool for Smash. :D
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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I don't understand detracters..... I support and hope anyone's characters get in. It's pointless to go to support threads for characters and argue against those characters. You can't not expect an argument if your trying to shoot someone's hopes
down. It's even worse when someone's clearly trolling
 

Arcadenik

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Anyway, what do you K. Rool supporters plan to do IF he's not in Smash?

Personally, I'd request Nintendo and Retro to include K. Rool and the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country Returns 3... oh, and to make Donkey Kong 64 3D happen (I would love that!). I feel that's more constructive than boycotting Smash and giving it negative reviews (unless the gameplay was really bad).
 

The Light Music Club

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Anyway, what do you K. Rool supporters plan to do IF he's not in Smash?

Personally, I'd request Nintendo and Retro to include K. Rool and the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country Returns 3... oh, and to make Donkey Kong 64 3D happen (I would love that!). I feel that's more constructive than boycotting Smash and giving it negative reviews (unless the gameplay was really bad).
Why even call it "Donkey Kong Country Returns 3"? I mean it's back, but do if 3 comes out in lets say 2015 or even early 2016, it would have returned more then like 3 years right?
 

The Light Music Club

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Anyway, what do you K. Rool supporters plan to do IF he's not in Smash?

Personally, I'd request Nintendo and Retro to include K. Rool and the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country Returns 3... oh, and to make Donkey Kong 64 3D happen (I would love that!). I feel that's more constructive than boycotting Smash and giving it negative reviews (unless the gameplay was really bad).
I think that if he's not in now, and DLC doesn't happen, they don't plan on adding him until maybe Sakurai steps down.

I really think Ridley is in, and King K isn't. So I hope DLC happens. I really do. If not, then Sakurai doesn't seem him fit for smash. I mean look how long Ridley had to wait. He and Ridley should both get in at the same Smash, so it's DLC or done.
 

CJ Falcon

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DK64 is my favorite game ever and the greatest game of all time. I'd cry my eyes dry if they made a 3DS remake of it. I mean, if inferior 64 games like Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, and Star Fox 64 can get remakes on DS, why not the 64 game that trumps them all?


Please no one get in a pissy mood over what I just said. It's just video games, after all.
 

JaidynReiman

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Anyway, what do you K. Rool supporters plan to do IF he's not in Smash?

Personally, I'd request Nintendo and Retro to include K. Rool and the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country Returns 3... oh, and to make Donkey Kong 64 3D happen (I would love that!). I feel that's more constructive than boycotting Smash and giving it negative reviews (unless the gameplay was really bad).
IF? What do you mean by "IF"? Whether he's in or not we'll still petition to get K. Rool in the next DK games (although honestly, if he is in he's practically guaranteed to appear in future DK games, but we'll still petition anyway until its confirmed).

I have no intention of giving Smash a bad review or boycotting it, but I'll be sorely disappointed, and I'll be less likely to work up the effort to spend all the money to get the game right away if there's no new DK newcomer or Isaac. I have no intention of skipping Smash regardless of who is in it, though.


I think that if he's not in now, and DLC doesn't happen, they don't plan on adding him until maybe Sakurai steps down.

I really think Ridley is in, and King K isn't. So I hope DLC happens. I really do. If not, then Sakurai doesn't seem him fit for smash. I mean look how long Ridley had to wait. He and Ridley should both get in at the same Smash, so it's DLC or done.
I think the opposite, if Ridley is in I think K. Rool is as well. And I personally do think Ridley is in. If Ridley and Mewtwo are both in (as the leaks suggest), that also means EVERY SINGLE veteran franchise announced at the start of development all have some sort of rival/antagonist character except Star Fox (and there's no reason for Wolf to get cut really, as far as Ninka has stated they have no idea who the final characters are, so Wolf is probably in there as well) and Donkey Kong. Heck, Mario is big enough he even gets two.
 

Kickback

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Anyway, what do you K. Rool supporters plan to do IF he's not in Smash?

Personally, I'd request Nintendo and Retro to include K. Rool and the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country Returns 3... oh, and to make Donkey Kong 64 3D happen (I would love that!). I feel that's more constructive than boycotting Smash and giving it negative reviews (unless the gameplay was really bad).
I won't be boycotting or giving it a low score as Smash bros 4 will be a supreme game no matter who the new commers are.

As for what I will do is jump in my pirate ship invade japan harvest all their natural resurces and steal Sakurai's Banana hord
 

The Light Music Club

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IF? What do you mean by "IF"? Whether he's in or not we'll still petition to get K. Rool in the next DK games (although honestly, if he is in he's practically guaranteed to appear in future DK games, but we'll still petition anyway until its confirmed).

I have no intention of giving Smash a bad review or boycotting it, but I'll be sorely disappointed, and I'll be less likely to work up the effort to spend all the money to get the game right away if there's no new DK newcomer or Isaac. I have no intention of skipping Smash regardless of who is in it, though.



I think the opposite, if Ridley is in I think K. Rool is as well. And I personally do think Ridley is in. If Ridley and Mewtwo are both in (as the leaks suggest), that also means EVERY SINGLE veteran franchise announced at the start of development all have some sort of rival/antagonist character except Star Fox (and there's no reason for Wolf to get cut really, as far as Ninka has stated they have no idea who the final characters are, so Wolf is probably in there as well) and Donkey Kong. Heck, Mario is big enough he even gets two.
Well I think if Ridley is in King K should be in, but I don't know if Sakurai feels the same way. I see what you mean though, I'm just wondering if there is room. If the Ice Climbers are indeed cut, I think he's in. Because I think it would be 4 of King K, Ridley, Wolf, Mewtwo, and Ice Climbers. I hope it is him if ICs are gone.
 

Mr. KoopaTurtle

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I'm still holding on for K. Rool. Personally, I think that King K. Rool is either playable, an AT, or stage boss.

At the very least, I am almost certain that Sakurai is completely aware of K. Rool's popularity across the globe. That has to count for something.
 

MandoBardanJusik

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Another thing that makes me hopeful towards K.Rool's inclusion is the complete lack of new heavy weights, we are in for at least one, and an interesting thing is we have no true ones yet even with the leak. And out of most of the canidates in leaks and even other 'likely' canidates other than Ridley none of them qualifies as an actual heavyweight either
 

RetroBro

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They usually bring up the "cannot fight/no moves" argument and PETA... but I find it pointless to counter those arguments when Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are doing a fine job debunking those arguments... and who cares about PETA.

Look, if K. Rool is in the game as a playable character, that's fine with me. I don't mind him. It's just that I felt that, based on my personal observations, relevancy and recency had some merit for franchises that are not retro. I was trying to be objective.
I don't know, regardless of you trying to be objective.. and this goes for anyone really: The idea of drawing conclusions from "trends" and "patterns" of a series as unpredictable and random as Smash bros is silly. There's only been three games released so far with a large amount of time in between them. There are very few things that are consistent. So, yes you are correct by saying "relevant" characters have a better chance of getting into the game, but you cannot by any means discredit a vastly popular character just by saying he hasn't been a main villain in years, or any character really.

We're talking about a developer that has a limited amount of time to develop this game, and I'm 99% certain he knows King K Rool exists, along with many of the other popular or formerly popular choices for this game. It's indisputable that by nature he has his own biases, and the heads of Nintendo also control who gets into the game.. but I'm sure he's considered King K Rool.. I honestly think the ultimate factor is how his team spent time developing characters. I know the roster was decided before development began, but things change... Otherwise, if he had all the time in the world, he'd squeeze in everyone possible.

So I say this to all of you King K Rool fans. I personally would love to see him in the game... I won't be too beat up about it. I have my own favorites I hope to see. But fight on. There will be a time period after Smash fades where Nintendo will be interested in DLC.

Never give up! Never surrender!


P.S. I feel the need to point out that Game & Watch is not in the same field as ROB and Duck Hunt Dog. G&W is an extremely influential character and series as opposed to these one-off distractions. #notaretrotrend
 

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I think that if he's not in now, and DLC doesn't happen, they don't plan on adding him until maybe Sakurai steps down.

I really think Ridley is in, and King K isn't. So I hope DLC happens. I really do. If not, then Sakurai doesn't seem him fit for smash. I mean look how long Ridley had to wait. He and Ridley should both get in at the same Smash, so it's DLC or done.
That's an absurd line of thought. If K. Rool isn't in this Smash, and he ends up being the main antagonist in the next DK platformer, then I would bet money on him being in Smash 5.

Ridley, on the other hand.... this is probably his last chance with Sakurai at the helm.
 

IsmaR

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What did you expect in a SUPPORT thread?

I mean, seriously.
I thought the thread title/purpose was meant to be ironic, and that this a gathering place for detractors.

I mean how could else could anyone interpret a character thread?
 

The Light Music Club

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That's an absurd line of thought. If K. Rool isn't in this Smash, and he ends up being the main antagonist in the next DK platformer, then I would bet money on him being in Smash 5.

Ridley, on the other hand.... this is probably his last chance with Sakurai at the helm.
No, I don't think it matters if he's the main antagonist in the next one, he's been the main one in plenty of them. And the Kremlings are in Smash Run so the relevancy doesn't matter at all.
 

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No, I don't think it matters if he's the main antagonist in the next one, he's been the main one in plenty of them. And the Kremlings are in Smash Run so the relevancy doesn't matter at all.
Listen, K. Rool isn't an important part of the current Donkey Kong Country Franchise.

Relevancy matters in relation to a series. Characters like Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers aren't new comers in an existing franchise. They are retro reps and therefore their relevancy doesn't matter. DKC has been hugely successful recently and K. Rool has NOT been a part of that. If he does become part of the franchise again, his visibility and importance to Nintendo in general will become greater, and he will very likely be looked at for Smash.

The Ridley situation is completely different. Sakurai DOES acknowledge him, he just seems to like him better as a boss.
 
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CJ Falcon

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Relevancy matters in relation to a series. Characters like Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers aren't new comers in an existing franchise. They are retro reps and therefore their relevancy doesn't matter.
Exceptions, exceptions. "Relevancy matters, no wait, it doesn't matter!"
Dude, either relevancy matters altogether, or it doesn't. Don't come up with these bs excuses.
 

bellboy64

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I won't be boycotting or giving it a low score as Smash bros 4 will be a supreme game no matter who the new commers are.

As for what I will do is jump in my pirate ship invade japan harvest all their natural resurces and steal Sakurai's Banana hord
It's the only rational thing to do.

I don't know if this has been discussed yet (and I'm too lazy to check) but an interesting rumour/"leak"- while not really debated much on the forums I've seen it (from what I can tell)- poses a question in my mind.

The rumour in question concerns a mode in the Wii U version where you fight (with the Gamepad) as the stage bosses present on the specific stages. King. K. Rool named as one of them.

Hypothetically (I personally will believe it when I see it but otherwise sounds bull), what would be your reaction to that, dear Kutthroats?
It'd be something at least. I wouldn't be ecstatic but I'd be fine.
 

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Exceptions, exceptions. "Relevancy matters, no wait, it doesn't matter!"
Dude, either relevancy matters altogether, or it doesn't. Don't come up with these bs excuses.
Okay, are you going to seriously tell me that if K. Rool was in Donkey Kong Country Returns his chances for being in this game wouldn't have increased dramatically?

I'm not a detractor by the way, I want K. Rool in and I think he still has a chance (especially as DLC.) Maybe relevancy isn't the right word, how about this: right now, K. Rool is not as important to the DK franchise as he would have been if he was in Returns. DKC has proven that it can sell very well with out him (Returns was the second best selling installment in the series.) If K. Rool becomes a focal point of the series again, then his chances of getting into Smash Bros. will increase, although it would be possible for him to get in regardless.
 
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