K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Swedish K.Chef came out better than expected.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Swedish K.Chef came out better than expected.

Haha, that's awesome. Where did you get that Mii, if I may ask?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Haha, that's awesome. Where did you get that Mii, if I may ask?

I think I got it from @Opossum

 

[CannonStreak]

I just called Nintendo right now. I don't know if anyone beat be to it, but I was told the same thing Sirfishe was told. The Mii costumes shouldn't matter for the ballot. Just saying this to confirm what Sirfishe said.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sakurai's himself is a big FE fan, certainly would influence an inclusion like Black Knight.

 

[Yellowlord]

I will admit one thing; The King K Rool Mii Costume (I really hope he'll make it in as a fighter), and the Black Knight Mii Costume look awesome. The Black Knight costume actually covers the whole Mii's face, so you can actually feel like you're playing as him in some form (so he's technically in Smash as a playable character in that sense). Still though, in terms of King K. Rool's costume, that spectacular detail on his costume makes me think a playable model is hiding somewhere, with parts of the model being used for this costume.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Not to burst any bubbles but Calling nintendo doesnt mean jack.

Random customer service employee #24 has no idea how the ballot works (internally) has no ties with the dev team, and likely doesnt even speak japanese. Maybe they were at least told to say that but there is no doubt in my mind they have absolutely no idea if what they are saying is true and just want to get off the phone ASAP while making the caller happy.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Yeah, but he claimed that "there's a reason we didn't [see] any more Diddy Kong nearly as much as we did for years,".

September 24, 2002, Microsoft bought Rare.

All of Diddy Kong's appearances since then:

Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Mario Kart: Double Dash!! (best Mario Kart in my opinion)
Donkey Konga
Donkey Konga 2
Mario Power Tennis
DK: King of Swing (only actual DK game I own)
Donkey Konga 3
Mario Superstar Baseball
Mario Hoops 3-on-3
DIDDY KONG RACING DS
Mario Strikers Charged
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
DK: Jungle Climber
Mario Party DS
SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Super Sluggers (Hey K. Rool's last appearance!)
Donkey Kong Country Returns (Co-Starring Role)
Mario Sports Mix
Fortune Street
Mario Party 9
Mario Tennis Open
Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Mario Golf: World Tour
SUPER SMASH BROS 4
Mario and Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games

Yeah, that's totally not a lot of appearances.

 

[BKupa666]

That reminds me, Namco are basically DK superfans. They put K. Rool, Kremlings and Kongs in their Mario baseball games. They put Swanky Kong, the one Kong beyond Kiddy/Chunky never to return, on a billboard in said baseball game. They put obscure DKC3(!) characters like Ellie, Barnacle Bear and the banana birds in their three Donkey Kongas. And they even snuck a few subtle DK references into this Smash, like the DK64 Kritter head-banging and trophy details like Expresso becoming able to jump on foes in Land, but not Country, and Funky having the hots for Candy.

Do these guys sound at all like the sort of people who would put a K. Rool costume into Smash?

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

It's possible I seriously think that these Mii costumes were in development before the ballot to answer some popular characters who went unrepresented in Smash. I personally don't think this Mii costume will impact K. Rools chances negatively in terms of him being picked or developed. However it can and probably will hurt any current votes or future votes since people will pass him off as having no chance.

There's more than enough characters that have Mii outfits or accessories that are playable in the game. I can't see them passing K. Rool over so easily. I think K. Rools outfit was coming regardless of his ballot position due to his pre release popularity alone.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Not to burst any bubbles but Calling nintendo doesnt mean jack.

Random customer service employee #24 has no idea how the ballot works (internally) has no ties with the dev team, and likely doesnt even speak japanese. Maybe they were at least told to say that but there is no doubt in my mind they have absolutely no idea if what they are saying is true and just want to get off the phone ASAP while making the caller happy.

If this is so, then it contradicts the way the company has operated for almost thirty years... As before;

If it's alright, I'd just like to back up the importance of this with some facts that don't seem to be particularly well-known around here. Those being: Nintendo has had procedures in place for collecting fan input for decades, and they actually originated at Nintendo of America, as detailed in Chapter Five of these memoirs (which are highly recommended reading, by the by; Chapter Five is the one that gives insight about how the surveys and ballots of today came to exist, though).

They most definitely do take into account what you say, and their reps tend to be very knowledgeable - it almost goes without saying that this especially applies to big events like the Fighter Ballot.

That reminds me, Namco are basically DK superfans. They put K. Rool, Kremlings and Kongs in their Mario baseball games. They put Swanky Kong, the one Kong beyond Kiddy/Chunky never to return, on a billboard in said baseball game. They put obscure DKC3(!) characters like Ellie, Barnacle Bear and the banana birds in their three Donkey Kongas. And they even snuck a few subtle DK references into this Smash, like the DK64 Kritter head-banging and trophy details like Expresso becoming able to jump on foes in Land, but not Country, and Funky having the hots for Candy.

Do these guys sound at all like the sort of people who would put a K. Rool costume into Smash?

No, no they don't.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Just called. I asked another question before asking about the Mii outfits to try to gauge the customer service rep's knowledge. I began by asking about when fighter characters would be released. They said that they don't have access to that information and it's "to be determined" right now.

I asked about the Miis afterward and they gave me the same response. That they don't have access to that information right now.

I still think the biggest weakness of the "K. Rool Mii is a consolation prize" based on ballot results is that this explanation appears very weak when extended to other cases (other Mii costume characters). That is, K. Rool and Inkling are alone among the mii costumes as having significant support for the ballot (based on survey evidence). Given that the king of the Kremlings was among the top characters in the pre-release, too, I would be wary with those that buy this explanation at this moment in time. Given its weakness in explaining cases other than K. Rool (it doesn't need to explain all Mii costumes, but surely more than Rool and Inkling), it seems like sloppy thinking to me.

 

[StormC]

How are you guys spacing out your votes? I'm thinking maybe trying for one per week, but doing more if I get a fresh opportunity.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

How are you guys spacing out your votes? I'm thinking maybe trying for one per week, but doing more if I get a fresh opportunity.

I'm getting friends and family to vote more so than multi voting myself it's been doing me good so far! I got 3 today alone so I'm still working!

Hopefully even if there is a doubt in the dev team for K. Rool, hopefully fan reaction the Mii outfit plus votes still coming in help to extinguish any doubt.

 

[Raxxel]

That reminds me, Namco are basically DK superfans. They put K. Rool, Kremlings and Kongs in their Mario baseball games. They put Swanky Kong, the one Kong beyond Kiddy/Chunky never to return, on a billboard in said baseball game. They put obscure DKC3(!) characters like Ellie, Barnacle Bear and the banana birds in their three Donkey Kongas. And they even snuck a few subtle DK references into this Smash, like the DK64 Kritter head-banging and trophy details like Expresso becoming able to jump on foes in Land, but not Country, and Funky having the hots for Candy.

Do these guys sound at all like the sort of people who would put a K. Rool costume into Smash?

Can I see the billboard? I can't find an image anywhere.

 

[Wintropy]

Sakurai's himself is a big FE fan, certainly would influence an inclusion like Black Knight.

Be that as it may, it doesn't mean it isn't strange that, of all the theoretical candidates, he chose the Black Knight.

It could have been Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Tiki, Anna, Corrin, Azura, Camilla, Xander, Ryouma, Takumi, Eirika, Ephraim, Owain, Tharja, Elincia, Sothe, Seliph, Sigurd, Morgan, Emmeryn...

Why, of all characters, a secondary antagonist that hasn't appeared in half a decade and whose popularity is far behind that of many other indigenous characters?

 

[CannonStreak]

Just called. I asked another question before asking about the Mii outfits to try to gauge the customer service rep's knowledge. I began by asking about when fighter characters would be released. They said that they don't have access to that information and it's "to be determined" right now.

I asked about the Miis afterward and they gave me the same response. That they don't have access to that information right now.

I still think the biggest weakness of the "K. Rool Mii is a consolation prize" based on ballot results is that this explanation appears very weak when extended to other cases (other Mii costume characters). That is, K. Rool and Inkling are alone among the mii costumes as having significant support for the ballot (based on survey evidence). Given that the king of the Kremlings was among the top characters in the pre-release, too, I would be wary with those that buy this explanation at this moment in time. Given its weakness in explaining cases other than K. Rool (it doesn't need to explain all Mii costumes, but surely more than Rool and Inkling), it seems like sloppy thinking to me.

Ah, looks like Sirfishe and I were lucky enough to get the kind of response we recieved. Huh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Be that as it may, it doesn't mean it isn't strange that, of all the theoretical candidates, he chose the Black Knight.

It could have been Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Tiki, Anna, Corrin, Azura, Camilla, Xander, Ryouma, Takumi, Eirika, Ephraim, Owain, Tharja, Elincia, Sothe, Seliph, Sigurd, Morgan, Emmeryn...

Why, of all characters, a secondary antagonist that hasn't appeared in half a decade and whose popularity is far behind that of many other indigenous characters?

He was a somewhat popular request pre Brawl....

 

[Bedoop]

Just a slight question to all
What would your reactions be if we got Dixie/Funky/Cranky Kong revealed as a Kostume and not K. Rool?
You guys think that would change the scenario up?

 

[Wintropy]

He was a somewhat popular request pre Brawl....

Exactly. So was K. Rool.

Ergo, it isn't a stretch to think that the kostume was decided well in advance of the ballot, based on pre-ballot popularity.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

To demonstrate the point of weakness of the "K. Rool Mii is a consolation prize" argument, consider a much stronger argument that applies to the vanilla Smash 4 roster: that "relevance" (starring in a recent game) matters. This is a good argument because it seems to apply to a good number of cases -- or characters chosen. In fact, the explanation is even stronger than that: the majority of characters in Smash 4's vanilla roster did star in a recent game.

Of course, you expect some variation since Sakurai and his development team don't pick characters based on unbreakable laws, but the general pattern suggests that "relevance" mattered a lot for the vanilla roster. The pattern isn't senseless either. That is, it isn't like saying "well they picked a character with a name starting with a P, an L, etc. but no X yet! X-nauts and other X- characters are in the clear". There are substantive reasons to take the pattern seriously, including Nintendo wanting to advertise recent games (or something).

Compare this to the "consolation prize" argument that seems to only apply to two cases at most (only Inkling and Rool seems relevant ot the ballot). Two cases out of 23, by my count! Given that one of the cases was even popular before pre-release and the other was most likely chosen to immediately market their new game, it's hard to take this argument seriously at this point in time. While substantively, Sakurai paying tribute to a popular but unselected character makes sense, a lot of theories can make sense. The test is to see if there is evidence for them.

Right now, there is as much evidence that the Mii costumes are consolation prizes (2/23, K. Rool and Inkling) as there is that Mii costumes were chosen on pre-release popularity (2/23, K. Rool and Chrom). And I'm not even broadening the latter argument to include "potential characters in Smash 4 that weren't selected for whatever reason". Then I would include Heihachi mii costume as evidence for this theory, as Sakurai considered the character at one point in time. That makes 3/23, not much better, but still more evidence than the "consolation prize" argument. There might be other characters that could be included in this tally, too!

I admit that emotionally, it's scary to think that the consolation prize argument may be true. But the other Mii costume choices do not seem to line up with this explanation and there are substantive reasons to dismiss it (the costumes are not the characters themselves, for example, unlike Ridley's boss scenario).

 

[BKupa666]

Can I see the billboard? I can't find an image anywhere.

It's not positioned in an easy place for a good picture to be taken (it's dead center field past the homerun fence), so I imagine looking up gameplay footage from Superstar Baseball in DK Jungle would prove most useful for seeing it.

Oh, and that reminds me, the DK Jungle stage takes place surrounded by Kremling ruins with Kritter faces and features Klaptraps as stage hazards.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

My brother and his top tier drawing skills on miiverse.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkUo4nW-w

Now back to my mid tier project .

 

[Jestar]

Can I see the billboard? I can't find an image anywhere.

It's small and not very clear, but here's a picture of it I found on the Mario wiki.

 

[Raxxel]

It's small and not very clear, but here's a picture of it I found on the Mario wiki.

Thanks!

 

[Jurae818]

That reminds me, Namco are basically DK superfans. They put K. Rool, Kremlings and Kongs in their Mario baseball games. They put Swanky Kong, the one Kong beyond Kiddy/Chunky never to return, on a billboard in said baseball game. They put obscure DKC3(!) characters like Ellie, Barnacle Bear and the banana birds in their three Donkey Kongas. And they even snuck a few subtle DK references into this Smash, like the DK64 Kritter head-banging and trophy details like Expresso becoming able to jump on foes in Land, but not Country, and Funky having the hots for Candy.

Do these guys sound at all like the sort of people who would put a K. Rool costume into Smash?

Add on to this, Camelot are also fans of DK, the president wanting to make a sequel to DK64, their Mario games in general and Paon had their share of DK games paying respect to the series overall. We got the fans in the one place that matters, it's just a matter of how much say they get in the long run, which at this point seems to be very little if any at all.

 

[FancySmash]

So, the way I see it, here are a few different reasons why we have the costume.

1. Nintendo's been peeking at the ballot over time. Seeing how high King K. Rool is, Nintendo isn't so sure what to think. K. Rool is a rather old character, who many might not remember. So, Nintendo, being ever so careful, decide to test the waters with a costume. This will help them determine whether or not the character would sell.
2. K. Rool isn't as high as we might have thought he is. I don't think this is the case, he's definitely higher than other popular ballot choices like Issac or Paper Mario.
3. Sakurai really doesn't like K. Rool or the DK series in general. Even if this were true, Sakurai wouldn't be able to walk away from this after saying he was giving "fan service."
4. Veterans like Wolf or Snake are actually doing better than K. Rool. Actually, I can see this being a possibility. However, as much as I like Veterans, I don't want them as ballot winners. Plus, the fact that we haven't seen Wolf yet, and Sakurai saying he's "pleasing the fans" worries me. Maybe this means... Wolf will be our ballot winner? I don't want this to be the case, as much as people like Wolf, he doesn't deserve to win the ballot.
5. The costume has no relation to K. Rool... meh.
6. The costume is a "tide over" until K. Rool himself is ready.

 

[MandoBardanJusik]

It's small and not very clear, but here's a picture of it I found on the Mario wiki.

Wonder if this means they built a new Swanky Kong model, or just recycled that, hard to tell on that quality... Hmmm I may be a K.Rool fan, but I like Chunky as well, been contemplating doing a hd model of him(or at least trying), perhaps I'll finally give it a go

 

[Raxxel]

Wonder if this means they built a new Swanky Kong model, or just recycled that, hard to tell on that quality... Hmmm I may be a K.Rool fan, but I like Chunky as well, been contemplating doing a hd model of him(or at least trying), perhaps I'll finally give it a go

I think that's his render from DKC3. So no new design. Still a really neat and completely out of the blue detail that only the more dedicated of fans would take note of.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, theoretically speaking, if Goku was the No. 1 voted character in the Smash Ballot, would Sakurai even acknowledge this? I can picture him joking about Goku not being a video game character hence him not winning the ballot. It would only make sense if Sakurai wanted to both let everyone know that Goku had the most votes but also that he won't be in the game due to not being a video game character. He could just ignore him of course but I think that would be rather dishonest (granted Goku is #1 in the ballot) and that he should let those people know why he can't be in the game instead of letting those people in the dark.

goku will most likely be the highest mostly because hes a joke in the smash community and even those who know nothing about smash are just riding the "lolgoku4smash" bandwagon

as for the sakurai reaction he might say something rude or cheeky and disrespect the whole smash fanbase.

kan someone explain where did they get the "reveal pic" in this video?? looks like leak or something... :/

Spoiler

am i late?

How are you guys spacing out your votes? I'm thinking maybe trying for one per week, but doing more if I get a fresh opportunity.

i know it sounds crazy i'm always afraid some nintendo employee might read some of these and discard X number of votes.

 

[SchAlternate]

I like to imagine Sakurai's team, seeing how, presumably, K. Rool was dominating the Ballot shortly after it was revealed, had already gotten a headstart with K. Rool, meaning they might've already began developing him. As such, they might already have a near complete model of him already, textures and everything [gameplay and other coding might still be underway]. As such, since K. Rool still has a lead in the Ballot, they might as well use the assets they already have and make a Mii Kostume out of him, as a sort of a tide over until the Ballots are over and K. Rool was completed.

I also have a theory on why K. Rool might use his original Rare look over his Paon look in Smash: K. Rool's was the main villain of the original Country Trilogy, as well as DK64, were he had his original look. All those games had received critical acclaim, and had since been cult classics. After that, though, K. Rool had only appeared in spin off games using a new design by Paon. Heck, he didn't even appear in the newer DKC games using this new design. As such, people that would remember K. Rool remember him in his older look, with a huge crown and golden belly (well, in his King outfit at least). So, naturally, Sakurai used his most iconic look for his playable appearance in Smash 4 (and, subsequently, used the assets from that model to create the Kostume).

 

[StormC]

i know it sounds crazy i'm always afraid some nintendo employee might read some of these and discard X number of votes.

I'm spacing out the people who I ask to vote for K. Rool, not multivoting. Right?

 

[Bedoop]

Remember back when M for Mature actually meant "M for Mature"?
Rareware probably remembers

1. Nintendo's been peeking at the ballot over time. Seeing how high King K. Rool is, Nintendo isn't so sure what to think. K. Rool is a rather old character, who many might not remember. So, Nintendo, being ever so careful, decide to test the waters with a costume. This will help them determine whether or not the character would sell.

That's actually really smart
Who knows?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm spacing out the people who I ask to vote for K. Rool, not multivoting. Right?

sorry im really tired.

i just had a funny thought what if the top votes were

King K.Rool
K.rool
King.krool

just a thought. considering how some people spell his name it may actully look like this.

inb4 baron and kaptain "fixedthat4u"

 

[Bedoop]

Today I found out that votes on the EU/JP/US all count as different people voting even if they're from the same IP
So we could potentially triple the votes by just raiding everything

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

The problem is though regardless of what the costume means, there's far to many people who are just tossing K. Rools chances out the window because of it. I think that's foolish. His support shouldn't dip just because of a Mii costume. If anything unwavering support and votes would help in more ways than one. Even if K. Rool gets snubbed Nintendo will see how much that character is desired and may prioritize him for any number of crossover titles in the future plus bring him back to his own franchise.

 

[Bedoop]

I'm still wondering as to why Ryu is in Smash despite Sakurai saying he really didn't want an actual Fighting Game character in Smash, and saying that 3rd Parties should only have 1 character for 'em
Sakurai is really bad at keeping the truth

How are you guys spacing out your votes? I'm thinking maybe trying for one per week, but doing more if I get a fresh opportunity.

Well I only have one laptop so I just slapped the votes in for US, EU and JP one day after another and so they're in there

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

And here is that evidence, @ Someguyyoulikelydontknow .

Thanks Tortilla. I know that Nintendo owned Diddy, but to this date, I couldn't find a site that verified trademarks. I will be sure to bookmark that site for future fact checking reasons.

 

[KawaiiPiranha]

seeing as the news has sort of gone cold, would anyone be interested in a K.Rool supporters tourney?

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

While I know that an amount of people are giving up on K. Rool because of the costume. I dont think they care enough for another character to change their vote.
We don't even know if you can change your vote at all. So I think at least the votes that were already made are safe.
But its true that it will be harder to convince people to vote for K. Rool now with the presence of the costume.

P.S. Im ok with voting 3 or 4 times in different devices. But over that seems like a bit cheatsy to me. My first vote was the one I put my soul in, the other 2 were just to make sure in case my vote got ignored some way. Last one was to specify "THE MII COSTUME DOESN'T COUNT!".
I don't blame people if they want to vote hundreds of times. Its Nintendo's fault for creating a system that allows it.