K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Powerman293]

LOL, love that Jared moment with the Cream Pie reaction.

 

[Joeyd123]

Here's an odd theory: In each Pokémon game, we get a new electric rodent Pikachu knockoff per generation. If Brawl indeed originally had Plusle & Minun in the game as characters, could Smash Bros. have been following the same trend? Is there an alternate universe somewhere in which Emolga/Dedenne ended up on the Smash 5 main roster?

No. Dedenne is a disgrace

 

[JaidynReiman]

What kind of f**king sadists thought this was fun?

Oh, hey, Kaizo DKC! Considering how popular DKC is I'm really not surprised. I actually had fun watching it.

ProJared uploaded a review of the DK cartoon today. He was pretty harsh about it but this part makes it:

E X P A N D D O N G

The show wasn't very good, but its still decent in a sort of charming little way. Although he forgot that it was actually a big hit in Japan, too.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Oh, hey, Kaizo DKC! Considering how popular DKC is I'm really not surprised. I actually had fun watching it.

Maybe it's just me, but I find these things more fun to watch than to actually play.

The show wasn't very good, but its still decent in a sort of charming little way. Although he forgot that it was actually a big hit in Japan, too.

It also won a publically voted award for Best Youth Programme in its native France in 1999, and was well-regarded for its early use of motion-capture, as well.

As with the likes of DiC's The Super Mario Bros. Super Show, Captain N: The Game Master, and The Legend of Zelda, it's easy for folks to chide it now without the context of the time, when at the time all of these shows were well-received and successful (just a relevant pet peeve about these things, not actually directed at anyone in particular ).

EDIT: Hah, neat, there was a US advertisement for DKC GBC that used some of the show's assets!

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Well, I do remember watching it quite some when I was a kid as anything videogame-related and on TV makes it up for some great sheananigans. Back then, I didn't see it on English but on Spanish. Quite a contrast to what I have seen of clips from the show here on the thread. Still fun to hear DK, K.Rool, Diddy and the gang with spanish voices.

Spanish-Latin K. Rool has BEST voice.

 

[ThePhenomTaker]

this is a song from peter pan but now i shall call it ''The Elegant Kaptain K.Rool''
The Kremlings:*Begins Dancing*
♫Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho So, try the life of a thief
Just sample the life of a krock
There isn't a Ape
Who won't enjoy
A-workin' for Kaptain K.Rool
The World's Most Famous Pirate♫
Kaptain K.Rool:
As a special offer for today
I'll tell you what I'll do.
All those who sign without delay...
Will get a free tattoo.
Why, it's like money in the bank!
C'mon, join up, and I'll be frank:
Unless you do, you'll walk the plank!
The choice is up to you!
The Kremlings:
♫The choice is up to you!
Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho, Yo Ho
You'll love the life of a thief
You'll relish the life of a Krock
There's barrels of fun enough for everyone!
And you'll get treasures by the ton
So come and sign the book
Join up with Kaptain K.Rool!♫

 

[Johnknight1]

Sheik is only in because she was so good in Melee.

If by good you mean "has a very well made moveset, skillset, and playstyle"... you are probably more right than wrong.

Meanwhile Zelda has had a terrible design in Melee, Brawl and Smash 4 (her PM design is also one of the weaker in said game), and yet she limps along.

Honestly, I'd rather have characters like the former over the latter. Zelda currently serves no purpose in the Smash series as anything but a wasted slot with how awfully designed she has been three times in a row (which is a shame, because a fix is hard, but very doable and very worthwhile). Bowser may be a very weak character in those same 3 games, but his design improved each game, and honestly it was never nearly as bad as Zelda's design.

I don't care about how successful they are as a competitive character (I say that as a competitive player), but rather how well designed and intuitive they are as characters. Sheik is very intuitive in every game (although her Brawl appearance left a lot to be desired), Zelda is very stupid.

Explain how Ness made it to Smash 4 when he's been consistently awful in all the previous games, and why Snake was cut despite being top tier in Brawl.

Ness' design was good though. Even though he was weak and his neutral game in Smash 64 and Melee was just drop dead awful, his overall design was incredible. Ness just only ever needed a few fixes, namely in regards to range and recovery, which were both addressed in Smash 4 in big ways.

In Brawl glitches (that were a huge design flaw) and the worst recovery in the game held Ness back. If those didn't exist, he would have been quite useful.

In Smash 4, those glitches weren't a factor, and now he's a well designed character as well as a well balanced character.

As for Snake... well... that's some weirdness due to the 3rd party issue. His design IMO was the runaway best in Brawl and one of the best we've ever seen, but there's a lot of issues.

The 3rd party issues in general (Sonic was safe since he's honestly tied to Nintendo, although Snake is arguably a bigger draw since Sonic's franchise isn't that relevant, whereas Metal Gear since MGS1 has always been extremely relevant), Smash 4's development team's desire to get a E10 rating (hence the Tharja trophy removals, although there's obviously many possible workarounds to this), Konami vs. Kojima weirdness that's likely been going on for half a decade (and Sakurai's loyalty to Kojima may be a factor), Konami's weirdness in general, and Konami leaving the home console, handheld console, and PC gaming markets (asides from Pro Evolution Soccer) may all be a factor.

\\

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Still waiting for King K. Rool's finest hour to come...we're running low on food...not sure how much longer we can survive without our king...

 

[Pyra]

I really wonder what the Club Nintendo successor will be like...

I'm not getting my hopes up for it, to be perfectly honest.

I hope it's a better system than before, but I'm not expecting much.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

...we're running low on food...

♫
Life is slowly ebbing from us
Hope's almost gone
It's getting very hard to see us
From sideways on~
♫

 

[Bestmand902]

♫
Life is slowly ebbing from us
Hope's almost gone
It's getting very hard to see us
From sideways on~
♫

I love you.
Joseph and The Technicolor Dreamcoat is one of my favorite musicals, no joke. I'm so glad somebody else knows about it.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

If by good you mean "has a very well made moveset, skillset, and playstyle"... you are probably more right than wrong.

Meanwhile Zelda has had a terrible design in Melee, Brawl and Smash 4 (her PM design is also one of the weaker in said game), and yet she limps along.

Honestly, I'd rather have characters like the former over the latter. Zelda currently serves no purpose in the Smash series as anything but a wasted slot with how awfully designed she has been three times in a row (which is a shame, because a fix is hard, but very doable and very worthwhile). Bowser may be a very weak character in those same 3 games, but his design improved each game, and honestly it was never nearly as bad as Zelda's design.

I don't care about how successful they are as a competitive character (I say that as a competitive player), but rather how well designed and intuitive they are as characters. Sheik is very intuitive in every game (although her Brawl appearance left a lot to be desired), Zelda is very stupid.
\\

Bruh...
BRUH!
Shiek is not well designed at all, no matter what game she's in, she has the most boring meta, especially in SSBM. Zelda's moveset definitely isn't the best designed in the game, but it's the stupid fighters like Shiek and ZSS who are poorly designed. With their move sets, they either dominate the entire cast besides a small handful of fighters, or they're lackluster. Zelda will never be good, not with her current moveset, but unlike Shiek, she isn't completely braindead.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I love you.
Joseph and The Technicolor Dreamcoat is one of my favorite musicals, no joke. I'm so glad somebody else knows about it.

It's one of mine, too. I certainly never expected a chance to quote it here, though! (Many thanks for that, Zard lover Doom Desire !)

Now we just have to see if, indeed, any dream will do, as far as K. Rool getting in, eh?

 

[Bestmand902]

It's one of mine, too. I certainly never expected a chance to quote it here, though! (Many thanks for that, Zard lover Doom Desire !)

Now we just have to see if, indeed, any dream will do, as far as K. Rool getting in, eh?

Here's hoping! :D

 

[Raxxel]

Honestly, this song fits the anticipation for news I'm feeling right now.

Spoiler: Le song

 

[Zombie Saurian]

That commercial does the show's models justice, seriously those are so fluent.

 

[Johnknight1]

Shiek is not well designed at all, no matter what game she's in, she has the most boring meta, especially in SSBM.

What do you mean? She rewards offense and defense appropriately. She relies more on defensive strategies than the bulk of the Melee cast, but you know what? Those are generally the best designed characters. If you escape the prism of purely Melee and look beyond to Street Fighter II, III, IV, and soon V, you will see that some of the most hype characters have similar defensive heavy playstyles.

It may not be as eyepopping as Captain Falcon sure, but it is indeed very smart, very intuitive, and always makes you think everything fully through. Thoughtful. That's one word I would use to describe fighting Sheik. That's a very good quality. Fighting is about mind over matter as much as anything else in the universe.

Zelda's moveset definitely isn't the best designed in the game, but it's the stupid fighters like Shiek and ZSS who are poorly designed.

Zero Suit Samus and Sheik worse designed than Zelda?

Are you kidding me?

Zelda has no tangible strengths, hardly any useful moves, and no conceived skillset or reliable playstyle in ANY SMASH GAME. Nothing she has is well designed.

Your complaints with Sheik and Zero Suit Samus are just you don't like playing them.

Zero Suit Samus has a great design in both Brawl and Smash 4. She's got a clearly design skillset, a versatile moveset that covers a lot of ground and doesn't have anything overly polarizing that doesn't have a clear weakness, and her playstyle forces one to engage, be careful with their movement, and think about how they are going to move and attack her.

With their move sets, they either dominate the entire cast besides a small handful of fighters, or they're lackluster.

Balance isn't design though. Sure, Sheik may make a few others much less useful in competitive play, but her design in solid. The same is true of her Smash 4 design, although with less negative repercussions.

Zelda will never be good, not with her current moveset, but unlike Shiek, she isn't completely braindead.

I take it you've never faced a good Sheik then.

In Melee I've lost to Tafokints and Shroomed... in the same pool... back to back. Heck, I've faced Shroomed many times with many characters, and none of them match the precision of his Sheik. Let me tell you, playing those two I felt outsmarted, not "braindead."

Them and their character's precise reliance on movement reads, attack reads, pattern pickups, when I engage and when I don't, how I engage, spacing habits, and how I DI was eye opening.

You can get out of any of her chaingrabs (not combos) fairly early, but the thing is they read you so well that you can't because you're outsmarted. You don't have those situations down like they do.

I remember once against Shroomed I changed the way I DI with slight differences in my direction after hits from nAir's, and he adjusted by getting the right angle by throwing out bAir's instead to cover more ground yet do less damage. To add to this intelligent choice, Shroomed started doing it right as my damage percent was high enough to where I couldn't crouch cancel. I changed my angle a little bit to something I thought was out of the box in regards to avoid his bAir's, and he read me and grabbed me. I got out, V-dodged (air dodge into a waveland) away from a hit on a platform. I then thought about throwing him off by light shielding near the ledge (so if it hit I would fall off the platform to the main platform) and he somehow read that and grabbed me. Upset with his grabs, I DI'd out of the grabbed really well, and then DI'd off the ground to avoid a follow up at a very good angle; he read me and fAir'd me for a KO.

None of that was cheap, and all of it was earned. For a player of my terrible skill I played pretty good, but despite that my mind was not anywhere near as honed as his, and I got beat by that.

I've seen Shroomed employ these same tactics when he has earned wins over the likes of Mew2King and Mango in sets this year, and it is incredibly impressive.

I can't tell you how smart they are. Other top Melee Sheik's like Kira, Laundandus, Mew2King, Plup, DruggedFox, etc are some of the smartest Smashers you can watch.

As for Smash 4... look, it doesn't matter what people think, Zero is just amazing at Smash 4, and no one else really is (yet).

\\

 

[CodeBlue_]

What kind of f**king sadists thought this was fun?

This looks pretty awesome imo. Kinda like a more tame Kaizo Mario. (I use the word tame loosely)

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

What do you mean? She rewards offense and defense appropriately. She relies more on defensive strategies than the bulk of the Melee cast, but you know what? Those are generally the best designed characters. If you escape the prism of purely Melee and look beyond to Street Fighter II, III, IV, and soon V, you will see that some of the most hype characters have similar defensive heavy playstyles.

It may not be as eyepopping as Captain Falcon sure, but it is indeed very smart, very intuitive, and always makes you think everything fully through. Thoughtful. That's one word I would use to describe fighting Sheik. That's a very good quality. Fighting is about mind over matter as much as anything else in the universe.

Zero Suit Samus and Sheik worse designed than Zelda?

Are you kidding me?

Zelda has no tangible strengths, hardly any useful moves, and no conceived skillset or reliable playstyle in ANY SMASH GAME. Nothing she has is well designed.

Your complaints with Sheik and Zero Suit Samus are just you don't like playing them.

Zero Suit Samus has a great design in both Brawl and Smash 4. She's got a clearly design skillset, a versatile moveset that covers a lot of ground and doesn't have anything overly polarizing that doesn't have a clear weakness, and her playstyle forces one to engage, be careful with their movement, and think about how they are going to move and attack her.

Balance isn't design though. Sure, Sheik may make a few others much less useful in competitive play, but her design in solid. The same is true of her Smash 4 design, although with less negative repercussions.

I take it you've never faced a good Sheik then.

In Melee I've lost to Tafokints and Shroomed... in the same pool... back to back. Heck, I've faced Shroomed many times with many characters, and none of them match the precision of his Sheik. Let me tell you, playing those two I felt outsmarted, not "braindead."

Them and their character's precise reliance on movement reads, attack reads, pattern pickups, when I engage and when I don't, how I engage, spacing habits, and how I DI was eye opening.

You can get out of any of her chaingrabs (not combos) fairly early, but the thing is they read you so well that you can't because you're outsmarted. You don't have those situations down like they do.

I remember once against Shroomed I changed the way I DI with slight differences in my direction after hits from nAir's, and he adjusted by getting the right angle by throwing out bAir's instead to cover more ground yet do less damage. To add to this intelligent choice, Shroomed started doing it right as my damage percent was high enough to where I couldn't crouch cancel. I changed my angle a little bit to something I thought was out of the box in regards to avoid his bAir's, and he read me and grabbed me. I got out, V-dodged (air dodge into a waveland) away from a hit on a platform. I then thought about throwing him off by light shielding near the ledge (so if it hit I would fall off the platform to the main platform) and he somehow read that and grabbed me. Upset with his grabs, I DI'd out of the grabbed really well, and then DI'd off the ground to avoid a follow up at a very good angle; he read me and fAir'd me for a KO.

None of that was cheap, and all of it was earned. For a player of my terrible skill I played pretty good, but despite that my mind was not anywhere near as honed as his, and I got beat by that.

I've seen Shroomed employ these same tactics when he has earned wins over the likes of Mew2King and Mango in sets this year, and it is incredibly impressive.

I can't tell you how smart they are. Other top Melee Sheik's like Kira, Laundandus, Mew2King, Plup, DruggedFox, etc are some of the smartest Smashers you can watch.

As for Smash 4... look, it doesn't matter what people think, Zero is just amazing at Smash 4, and no one else really is (yet).

\\

No one likes a tier ***** m8.
Anyway...I could care less what strategies are effective, especially in Street Fighter. The point is, defensive characters are not only boring for normal people to play, but for anyone to watch.
Shroomed was better as a Doc main and he's nothing special now.
Captain Falcon, he's fun to watch, he's the least disturbing of the top tiers in any Smash because his moves are actually hype, sure, other top tiers are offensive fighters too, but their moves look relatively plain, not that it matters when they can still pull off impressive strings or combos. In Smash 4 and Melee, he's respectable for a top tier...it's just that, well, that isn't saying much...
Also...as for Zelda's "tangible strengths"...I'll just assume you haven't played Smash 4 Zelda...

EDIT:Aw man censorship? It wasn't even THAT bad...

 

[Johnknight1]

No one likes a tier ***** m8.

All 6 of the Melee Gods main one or multiple of the top 5 characters on the Melee tier list. By your definition, they're "tier ******".

I went to I'm Not Yelling and Leffen, Mango, and Armada, these "tier w*****s" who all main Fox were there. They had flocks of people asking for their autographs. Apparently their fans didn't get your memo, and neither did their over a thousand Twitch subscribers, thousands of people who watch tournaments just to see them, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers.

Maybe you don't realize this since you're probably new, but Melee has gotten huge off of these supposed "tier ******" being the top players.

To be blunt, the only people who say "no one likes tier ******" are people who suck at the game and probably don't even play it competitively.

Anyway...I could care less what strategies are effective, especially in Street Fighter. The point is, defensive characters are not only boring for normal people to play, but for anyone to watch.

We call that confirmation bias, and it is unscientific at best and ignorant and hateful at worst.

You say that it is boring for "normal people to play... to watch" (what are "normal people?") but Street Fighter IV gets so much more viewers and has so much more players (especially competitively) than any Smash game. Street Fighter V is gonna top that by a considerable amount. Street Fighter also has better players with a deeper understanding of how their game works than Smashers do (namely non-competitive smashers like yourself)... so... yeah.

Shroomed was better as a Doc main and he's nothing special now.

Ummm.... no. Doc's weaknesses were too big for Shroomed to win with. EVO 2013 was the peak of his Doc powers, and he couldn't get past Ice there, let alone the then-5 Gods of Melee.

Now with Sheik he's gone nearly even in sets with M2K over the last year, has beaten virtually every non-God in a set, beat Mango at CEO (4th biggest major of the year so far) in a lopsided 2-0 win to make top 8 on winner's side, and has really forced any and all other Melee Gods he has faced to respect him. He's won more big games and sets, made more top 16's and top 8's, and performed wayyyy better since he has mained Sheik than at any point of when he mained Dr. Mario.

Now that he's a Sheik main, he has a shot at being the next "God slayer." He's not too far off from it. All he has to do is be more consistent in tournaments, get longer chain grabs, and have stronger punishes in the neutral game.

\\

Based on how ill informed and non-scientific or logical your comments are, I'm just going to assume you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to competitive Smash or character design.

\\

 

[Banjodorf]

Can we get the discussion back to K. Rool? Tier placement has nothing to do with him getting in, and this is starting to get a little bit personal.

Even if there's little to nothing to actually say about K. Rool that hasn't actually been said, I'm pretty sure this is not the place for this discussion.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

All 6 of the Melee Gods main one or multiple of the top 5 characters on the Melee tier list. By your definition, they're "tier ******".

I went to I'm Not Yelling and Leffen, Mango, and Armada, these "tier w*****s" who all main Fox were there. They had flocks of people asking for their autographs. Apparently their fans didn't get your memo, and neither did their over a thousand Twitch subscribers, thousands of people who watch tournaments just to see them, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers.

Maybe you don't realize this since you're probably new, but Melee has gotten huge off of these supposed "tier ******" being the top players.

To be blunt, the only people who say "no one likes tier ******" are people who suck at the game and probably don't even play it competitively.

We call that confirmation bias, and it is unscientific at best and ignorant and hateful at worst.

You say that it is boring for "normal people to play... to watch" (what are "normal people?") but Street Fighter IV gets so much more viewers and has so much more players (especially competitively) than any Smash game. Street Fighter V is gonna top that by a considerable amount. Street Fighter also has better players with a deeper understanding of how their game works than Smashers do (namely non-competitive smashers like yourself)... so... yeah.

Ummm.... no. Doc's weaknesses were too big for Shroomed to win with. EVO 2013 was the peak of his Doc powers, and he couldn't get past Ice there, let alone the then-5 Gods of Melee.

Now with Sheik he's gone nearly even in sets with M2K over the last year, has beaten virtually every non-God in a set, beat Mango at CEO (4th biggest major of the year so far) in a lopsided 2-0 win to make top 8 on winner's side, and has really forced any and all other Melee Gods he has faced to respect him. He's won more big games and sets, made more top 16's and top 8's, and performed wayyyy better since he has mained Sheik than at any point of when he mained Dr. Mario.

Now that he's a Sheik main, he has a shot at being the next "God slayer." He's not too far off from it. All he has to do is be more consistent in tournaments, get longer chain grabs, and have stronger punishes in the neutral game.

\\

Based on how ill informed and non-scientific or logical your comments are, I'm just going to assume you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to competitive Smash or character design.

\\

Seems I've rustled a jimmy or two, never going to recover from those fired shots...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ProJared doesn't like the cartoon. Does that mean he isn't...ONE OF UUUS ONE OF UUUUS

 

[IsmaR]

Moving forward, any off topic discussion about balance will be infracted.

 

[Pakky]

So any Nintendo Direct news?

 

[Johnknight1]

It doesn't matter how bad Marth was he absolutely still would have been in smash. Roy was absolute garbage and still planned for Brawl. Same for Mewtwo. Competitive strength absolutely has nothing to do with roster decisions.

And as a competitive player... I agree with this logic.

Character design (in regards to how good it is/would be), and character relevance (which includes being previously playable and how easy said character is to make) should be the main factors, not how good they were in a previous Smash game.

That said, most top tiers in Smash games have good designs, despite any balancing issues that may or may not be associated with them. There's few characters with some major glaring character design flaws (most of them reside in the bottom tiers). Most of these flaws can be easily fixed, as it is inherit to the character. Some of these, like Zelda's issues (What is the purpose of anything she does, what is the character's direction, and what is their focus?), are not easily fixed, often due to a lack of clear and precise direction.

Yet, these characters are few and far between one another. The various Smash development teams have done an outstanding job at minimizing these kind of characters. There's less than a half dozen of them in any Smash game, and that number in Smash 4 is shrinking thanks to proper patching practices (although we could use some patch notes like Splatoon gets).

I think that's an aspect of character design people don't get. People get "this character is strong, this character is weak" and how certain moves are too strong or too weak and so on, but they don't understand inherent character (design) flaws. On most character boards you'll see ideas that just flat won't work without some serious precision in building up a character. Characters already in Smash like the Ice Climbers, Bowser Jr., and Ness were hard to theorize and even harder to put together, but they work because of the careful balancing of them. That is why these kind of characters aren't as common as simpler characters.

Fortunately, K. Rool isn't one of those characters. Like a huge chunk of the current cast of Smash playable characters, his design is rather simple, as are all the various aspects of his potential character design.

Much like Bowser, he would be heavy and slow. Yet, like Bowser Jr., he has technology on his side, albeit at a more limited capacity. He has long claws and fairly long arms as well as a huge body, so his range of attack would be a strength.

K. Rool's tail additionally provides a sneaking means of attacking, decreasing the predictability of his offense, but giving him another potential weakness (such a move wouldn't cover a lot of range) if an opponent is able to easily predict what moves you are doing (forcing you to mix up your offense to decrease predictability, forcing you and your opponent{s} to think more).

K. Rool would also likely have a projectile and/or move that covers a lot of horizontal range, thus expanding the toolbox. While K. Rool's focus would be his power, size, close range fighting ability, and perhaps even shield or tech pressure, having a few moves that allow him to poke or even do jab equivalents to enemies can throw them off.

This "distraction" of sorts may not be his intended focus, but like any good distraction, when used right, it makes the main purpose easier to achieve, and that purpose is to land big moves for early KO's and/or lots of damage.

This easily inherited skillset and playstyle makes expanding it rather easy. The simplicity of K. Rool, even with his expansive toolbox of moves, really is a valuable asset. Overall in all my character highlights, I try to highlight that.

In comparison to a few characters already playable in Smash like Ness, Zelda, Olimar, and Bowser Jr., making K. Rool "work" would be a much simpler task than it as with those characters. That is a big reason why, along with his popularity, he is such an easy pick, and why K. Rool is and should be so immensely popular.

K. Rool has a very basic style of build, but a lot of unique wrinkles to him. This give him a variety of options to attack foes many ways, yet his main objective and playstyle is still clear and concise and logical. K. Rool is a very easy and simple character to add, but there's a lot of cool and deep and advanced things you can add to him to make him a deeper and more unique character.

That is, in my opinion, the beauties of the idea of adding K. Rool to the Smash Bros. playable character cast, and why these comparisons of sorts are needed in order to paint the full picture.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So any Nintendo Direct news?

No, just possibilities of seeing one. Splatoon 2.2.0 is coming out next week (we'll probably see playable Octolings very soon), Nintendo's having a massive maintenance update on Monday which could indicate something coming up. Plus the "mid-October" tease for Pokemon Go and DeNA's new game having info "soon," there's really a lot to suggest a Nintendo Direct will not only be soon, it'll definitely be by the end of the month, quite likely next week.


But we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Dre89]

Bruh...
BRUH!
Shiek is not well designed at all, no matter what game she's in, she has the most boring meta, especially in SSBM. Zelda's moveset definitely isn't the best designed in the game, but it's the stupid fighters like Shiek and ZSS who are poorly designed. With their move sets, they either dominate the entire cast besides a small handful of fighters, or they're lackluster. Zelda will never be good, not with her current moveset, but unlike Shiek, she isn't completely braindead.

Sheik and ZSS are way more complex than Zelda lol.

I swear casual players can't hack that people play the game differently to them. People who play top tiers don't criticise people who play low tiers. But you always get these low tier players who criticise others for playing top tiers.

Playing low tiers and complaining about top tier players is doing the equivalent of deciding not to shield and then complaining when others do it. You're handicapping yourself for a non-competitive reason but feel entitled to not be punished for it.

It's like these people can't accept that for some people more of the fun comes from winning than from just playing a character from your favourite series, or just a character whose moveset you like. It seriously bugs me how casuals constantly criticise people who play the game different to them.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Who said I'm casual?

 

[Dre89]

Who said I'm casual?

99% of people who complain about others playing top tiers are either casuals or just really bad players. Good players don't think like that because they understand the competitive scene enough to know that winning constitutes a large part of the fun in the competitive play, and that most players eventually get to a point where they become held back by using bad characters.

They also know that most of the top tiers are more complex and take more skill to plsy properly than the low tiers. Low tiers are generally simple characters that only have to select between a few viable options at any given time.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

That 1% sweg though.

 

[PlayfulMushroom]

99% of people who complain about others playing top tiers are either casuals or just really bad players. Good players don't think like that because they understand the competitive scene enough to know that winning constitutes a large part of the fun in the competitive play, and that most players eventually get to a point where they become held back by using bad characters.

I casually forget that Smash has a competitive scene I'm an incredibly bad Smash player in general, I just fell in love with it because it's so fun to play with friends, brings out a lot of memories/nostalgia... you know.

Shame that I had to wake up another day without news. I'm still hoping that I'm going to wake up to a direct announcement. Guess it's time to find my Oujia board and connect with demons to force Nintendo to make a direct.

 

[ZTurtle]

And as a competitive player... I agree with this logic.

Character design (in regards to how good it is/would be), and character relevance (which includes being previously playable and how easy said character is to make) should be the main factors, not how good they were in a previous Smash game.

That said, most top tiers in Smash games have good designs, despite any balancing issues that may or may not be associated with them. There's few characters with some major glaring character design flaws (most of them reside in the bottom tiers). Most of these flaws can be easily fixed, as it is inherit to the character. Some of these, like Zelda's issues (What is the purpose of anything she does, what is the character's direction, and what is their focus?), are not easily fixed, often due to a lack of clear and precise direction.

Yet, these characters are few and far between one another. The various Smash development teams have done an outstanding job at minimizing these kind of characters. There's less than a half dozen of them in any Smash game, and that number in Smash 4 is shrinking thanks to proper patching practices (although we could use some patch notes like Splatoon gets).

I think that's an aspect of character design people don't get. People get "this character is strong, this character is weak" and how certain moves are too strong or too weak and so on, but they don't understand inherent character (design) flaws. On most character boards you'll see ideas that just flat won't work without some serious precision in building up a character. Characters already in Smash like the Ice Climbers, Bowser Jr., and Ness were hard to theorize and even harder to put together, but they work because of the careful balancing of them. That is why these kind of characters aren't as common as simpler characters.

Fortunately, K. Rool isn't one of those characters. Like a huge chunk of the current cast of Smash playable characters, his design is rather simple, as are all the various aspects of his potential character design.

Much like Bowser, he would be heavy and slow. Yet, like Bowser Jr., he has technology on his side, albeit at a more limited capacity. He has long claws and fairly long arms as well as a huge body, so his range of attack would be a strength.

K. Rool's tail additionally provides a sneaking means of attacking, decreasing the predictability of his offense, but giving him another potential weakness (such a move wouldn't cover a lot of range) if an opponent is able to easily predict what moves you are doing (forcing you to mix up your offense to decrease predictability, forcing you and your opponent{s} to think more).

K. Rool would also likely have a projectile and/or move that covers a lot of horizontal range, thus expanding the toolbox. While K. Rool's focus would be his power, size, close range fighting ability, and perhaps even shield or tech pressure, having a few moves that allow him to poke or even do jab equivalents to enemies can throw them off.

This "distraction" of sorts may not be his intended focus, but like any good distraction, when used right, it makes the main purpose easier to achieve, and that purpose is to land big moves for early KO's and/or lots of damage.

This easily inherited skillset and playstyle makes expanding it rather easy. The simplicity of K. Rool, even with his expansive toolbox of moves, really is a valuable asset. Overall in all my character highlights, I try to highlight that.

In comparison to a few characters already playable in Smash like Ness, Zelda, Olimar, and Bowser Jr., making K. Rool "work" would be a much simpler task than it as with those characters. That is a big reason why, along with his popularity, he is such an easy pick, and why K. Rool is and should be so immensely popular.

K. Rool has a very basic style of build, but a lot of unique wrinkles to him. This give him a variety of options to attack foes many ways, yet his main objective and playstyle is still clear and concise and logical. K. Rool is a very easy and simple character to add, but there's a lot of cool and deep and advanced things you can add to him to make him a deeper and more unique character.

That is, in my opinion, the beauties of the idea of adding K. Rool to the Smash Bros. playable character cast, and why these comparisons of sorts are needed in order to paint the full picture.

That's actually really awesome! If K. Rool could play in the manner which you suggest, that would be fantastic! You've got a real way with words, your K. Rool play style design concept is probably the best I've seen! Props to you sir.

 

[Pepperoni_Lives]

Moving forward, any off topic discussion about balance will be infracted.

Good move! Now back to K Rool, amirite?

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's time for more questions again:
1-Did you watched the cartoon back when it first aired?
2-Did you always knew that K.Rool was a popular Smash choice in Japan?
3-What would be your reaction if K.Rool was playable in Mario Kart 9?
4-What are you going to do when Smash 4 speculation/character DLC is over?

 

[NintenZ]

I had a weird dream last night, Wolf and Dixie were leaked along with Twilight Sparkle from My Little Pony (She had a Pinky Pie alt) along with 16-player Smash.

 

[Handy Man]

I think it's time for more questions again:
1-Did you watched the cartoon back when it first aired?
2-Did you always knew that K.Rool was a popular Smash choice in Japan?
3-What would be your reaction if K.Rool was playable in Mario Kart 9?
4-What are you going to do when Smash 4 speculation/character DLC is over?

1. No, but I did get the Crystal Coconut VHS when it came out. I also got the first season DVD box set recently.
2. I wasn't sure until I saw SourceGaming's Japanese poll results. Since King K. Rool is a European character, I would think that Japan wouldn't give him as much thought, but it's great to see that he's so highly regarded over there.
3. He would definitely be my go-to heavy racer, replacing Wario.
4. Keep playing the game and moving on.

 

[Arklos]

You guys seriously need to drop this competitive/tier talk, this is not the place for it. (Unless it's K.Rool's hypothetical placement)

I think it's time for more questions again:
1-Did you watched the cartoon back when it first aired?
2-Did you always knew that K.Rool was a popular Smash choice in Japan?
3-What would be your reaction if K.Rool was playable in Mario Kart 9?
4-What are you going to do when Smash 4 speculation/character DLC is over?

1. I caught a few episodes when i was a kid but only watched it if it happened to be on. I never went out of my way for it though.
2. I never knew until recently actually, though I never thought that he was hated or anything over there.
3. Honestly I'd be suprised, speechless even, seeing how Diddy isn't even in 8, but would welcome his inclusion.
4. Move on most likely. If K.Rool or Ridley get in I might stick around a bit for their forums.

 

[Raxxel]

I had a weird dream last night, Wolf and Dixie were leaked along with Twilight Sparkle from My Little Pony (She had a Pinky Pie alt) along with 16-player Smash.

Okay, forget Twilight Sparkle, WHAT KIND OF STAGE, BESIDES MAYBE GREAT CAVE OFFENSIVE, WOULD WORK WITH 16 PLAYERS?

 

[NintenZ]

Okay, forget Twilight Sparkle, WHAT KIND OF STAGE, BESIDES MAYBE GREAT CAVE OFFENSIVE, WOULD WORK WITH 16 PLAYERS?

Big Miiverse? (Which was the stage in the dream)