Justin Wong on Melee and the Donation Drive

[enCouRaging Bear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt_EHDlzCKk#t=32m10s
GET HYPE!!!!!

The video is a few days old but the message is clear, there is hope for a fgc-melee community!!!

(lol at hop-jump and triangle jumping)

 

[MountainGoat]

Sweet. Getting some respect.

Spoiler

hop jump

 

[JKJ]

Hop jumping is the new short hopping
MELEE>SG
Even though the SG community is amazing and should be put on the Genesis 3 roster
MELEE <3 SG

 

[Acryte]

Jwong said hop jumping because he is more familiar with games like Persona 4 etc where your shorthop is just called a hop

 

[Tee ay eye]

>>$5,000 push

how cute

 

[Anand]

Hop jumping is the new short hopping
MELEE>SG
Even though the SG community is amazing and should be put on the Genesis 3 roster
MELEE <3 SG

So Melee is in the open interval (SG, 3 SG)? How'd you arrive at that bound?

 

[eshu125]

"melee is considered a much better game than brawl according to smash players"

Woah didn't see that coming..it's a good thing melee is entering evo for SMASH

 

[ShrieK1295]

Honestly, regardless of where you stand on the melee/brawl argument, and even if you've had no experience with melee, you have to acknowledge that there must be something special about melee that isn't there in brawl, otherwise melee would be a dead community. Brawl is a sequel, and in gaming communities, sequels basically always replace the older games, regardless of which is looked at as better in retrospect. Look at StarCraft, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, and many others. On top of that, Brawl is an aesthetic master piece, so it's very attractive for newcomers.

 

[Plum]

Not to start anything about Melee v Brawl, but I think you can't really deny that Melee is more of a spectator sport than Brawl is. If you were to show a high level Melee match and a high level Brawl match to anybody who knows little or nothing of either game, Melee is just more exciting. It's faster, there are combos, and a lot of "I don't even know what he did, but it was awesome" moments.
Brawl certainly has competitive value, and it places more emphasis on certain aspects of the game. I get that some players might like the more "chess" feel that Brawl can have with the slower pace and more defensive gameplay. But relative to Melee its hard to get as hype about that.
Whenever I see tournaments with other fighting games in them, the general consensus is that the FGC players are able to get into the Melee hype pretty easily.

 

[Signia]

(lol at hop-jump and triangle j...tch Those smash terms sound ridiculous tbh

 

[victra♥]

lots of respect.

shout outs @ justin wong

 

[Scidadle]

The majority of the FGC hate on smash isn't because of the actual game. It's because of the community. Stop trying to get the game accepted and work on improving how we act.

 

[KrazyKnux]

So Melee is in the open interval (SG, 3 SG)? How'd you arrive at that bound?

LOL, yeah i think his proof needs some work. I'm not sure how "hop jumping is the new short hopping" implies Melee > SG, and "Even though the SG community is amazing and should be put on the Genesis 3 roster" isn't even a proposition, so it's a mystery as to how that implies Melee < 3 SG.

 

[Varist]

The majority of the FGC hate on smash isn't because of the actual game. It's because of the community. Stop trying to get the game accepted and work on improving how we act.

This is 100% wrong.

>Assuming you can't find the same trolls in any FGC
>Assuming SSBM is going to magically attract worse kinds of people
>Basically calling all of us autistic ******s in our own thread

Smash gets hate because it's Smash. Not because they don't like our community, we each have exactly the same follies in varying amounts.

 

[eshu125]

I wasn't making any comparison of brawl to melee. As I stand I am only a smash spectator and I can agree that, as both are relatively easy to understand (characters getting knocked of the stage) while watching, melee is more entertaining to the average viewer because it is overall faster.

But that wasn't my point. In a brawl thread some guy said he was going to donate a ton of money to brawl but then the argument broke out that the money was better off going to melee because it would represent all of smash and further increase the chance for brawl to be represented at the next evo.

I for one was skeptical of the that statement, and I'm simply pointing out why. Brawl can say goodbye to any possible respect from the FGC now that melee has entered Evo.

 

[Scidadle]

This is 100% wrong.

>Assuming you can't find the same trolls in any FGC
>Assuming SSBM is going to magically attract worse kinds of people
>Basically calling all of us autistic ******s in our own thread

Smash gets hate because it's Smash. Not because they don't like our community, we each have exactly the same follies in varying amounts.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Go take a look at any place where smash receives hate. Most of it isn't hate towards our game. It's hate towards the community and what we do at tournaments.

Blaming it on smash is just a ****ty excuse. Time to take some criticism and look at it as not hate towards the game. Because it's not.

Edit: Also I'm not calling the smash community autistic. You completely missed the point of my post.

Also there will always be people who hate on smash, maybe more than other fighters but the only reason we aren't actually part of the FGC right now is because of us. It's not the FGC's fault. We can change that with EVO but we need to be on point.

EDIT 2: Granted I do think if smash was a traditional fighter we wouldn't have any trouble getting into evo and CEO and SCR and all those other FGC events. But we aren't. However the fact that we arent in those (Except EVO) is not the games fault.

 

[Varist]

The majority of the FGC hate on smash isn't because of the actual game. It's because of the community.

if smash was a traditional fighter we wouldn't have any trouble getting into evo and CEO and SCR and all those other FGC events.

scidadle pls go

 

[MountainGoat]

Scidadle what exactly does the smash community do that is so objectionable? I remember hearing a tournament organizer that had a bad experience with some smashers so he isn't having it in his road to EVO event but besides that all criticism I've read has been towards the game?

 

[Massive]

It's been my experience that any FGC hate towards smash is from the idea that it's a "party game for casuals". Whether it is an issue of ignorance of the game and how we play it, or some idea that only new games are worth their time, it is inconsequential.

I doubt most of the FGC has had any real experience with the smash community at large, whereas the opposite seems to happen more frequently (many in the smash community will play other fighting games, only to face derision because it's a "kiddie game"). If anything I'd say the traditional FGC is the problem, the bulk of them aimlessly drifting from fighting game fad to fad- never learning enough to appreciate anything but graphics and combos, but I may just be preaching to the choir at this point.

 

[Scidadle]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12857145&postcount=784

**** like this. It's stuff like this that soured out community for them.

scidadle pls go

Every game receives hate in the FGC. Smash a lot more than others there's no denying that. But the reason we aren't apart of the FGC is not because of the game. All I'm saying is that if our game was a street fighter clone we wouldn't have a problem getting into the FGC because the FGC would play our game. However that does not mean that it's the games fault that we aren't in the FGC.

It's the kind of mentality shown in this thread that is holding us back as a community. If we wan't to improve and grow more we have to act like a more respectable and mature community. We have to prove we are worthy of growth.

Scidadle what exactly does the smash community do that is so objectionable? I remember hearing a tournament organizer that had a bad experience with some smashers so he isn't having it in his road to EVO event but besides that all criticism I've read has been towards the game?

Other stuff would be stuff like stealing from APEX (Which honestly I think is a dumb thing for the FGC to talk down upon on smash for because there was never proof that it was a smasher) and pot splitting. Also they talk about how smashers don't take showers but I say that's more trolling than anything.

 

[Varist]

The majority of the FGC hate on smash isn't because of the actual game. It's because of the community. Stop trying to get the game accepted and work on improving how we act.

And yet, they are the furthest things from being bitter. I kept saying that the Guilty Gear community needs to learn to be professional and to take themselves seriously. Well, the Smash Bros. community is where they should look for an example.

The Smash community should be used as a blue print for many of the other budding communities. Whether you are King of the Fighters fans, Melty Blood fans, Arcana Heart fans... hell, even Street Fighter Alpha 3 fans, the key to getting your game into the lime light is building up your community. Everyone likes to say that being included in Evo is what breathes life into games. While I do admit it helps a lot, I still believe that a game thrives solely on its community. It has very little to do with the inclusion into Evo. In fact, inclusion into Evo is usually the result of a strong community or a potential for a strong community.

Pls. Pls go scidadle. Pls just go

 

[Kink-Link5]

That's funny because FGC people always laugh at our weird terms.

Friendlies = casuals
Dittos = mirrors or mirror match

Those smash terms sound ridiculous tbh

Casuals kind of has a specific connotation with "FFA items on Termina," so of course a more suitable term originated.

Friendlies = Recreational matches under a ruleset similar to tournament standard

Casuals = ****ing around

There's also the entire connotation that Smash is by itself only a game "for casuals" so using a term with two very different definitions with two very different connotations would of course be confusing and nonsensical.

And dittos makes absolute sense for a Nintendo world.

How the hell is it "ridiculous"? Of all the words to use that just makes no sense at all. Idiosyncratic? Sure. Ridiculous? No more so than casuals and mirrors.

#hopjump
#walkrun

 

[MaskedMarth]

Yeah "friendlies" is a normal term used by other competitive games and "dittos" is easily understandable. Not ridiculous.

 

[Impact009]

Fox and MSP are very similar. Tri-jumps, tech chases, offensive pressure...the tech skill required is equivalent.

I've been with the FGC since 2000 and SWF since 2003, and I'll honestly say that it's both. It was more so the game itself, then it leaned towards our community. I've heard plenty of "lol it's Smash. Why not stick to Street Fighter?" statements in my days, but they leaned more towards how childish the Smash community was, which was imo hypocritical on the FGC's part too. We've had our share of guys like Dark Prince and Aris in the FGC, but then we've also had incidents like luna trying to talk about fighting games that he didn't know about, a drunk PC Chris and his forum posts after EVO2K7, and more recently Inui's immaturity is rearing its head more and more.

Yes, there are bad TOs on both sides. xyro wasn't looked highly upon during the short-lived heyday of Brawl, but neither was Ranma when he screwed his winners over from attending SBO.

You guys made a GREAT impression on Bacardi in 2007, and the big names like JWong were also impressed with Melee., but SRK's perception of Smash really went down with the pot splitting between M2K and ADHD at MLG Dallas. After that, my rep got absolutely destroyed in the FGC for being a Smash supporter.

My name's not big in the Smash community, so if you don't like taking my opinion as a "nobody," then somebody go track down Forward and ask him. He'll probably tell you the same thing.

It's the kind of mentality shown in this thread that is holding us back as a community. If we wan't to improve and grow more we have to act like a more respectable and mature community. We have to prove we are worthy of growth.

This right here.

Pls. Pls go scidadle. Pls just go

Unnecessary considering this is a forum. Don't act like a little kid who can't have his way just because somebody disagreed with you.

 

[oksas]

We dont see good *** players from the fgc winning melee majors because they probably dont give a **** about it. go play any game from the SF series for a good amount of time, then come back and tell me what you think of melee. you'll realize melee is a complete joke if you'd stop being a fanboy.

these trolls man, these trolls

 

[MaskedMarth]

Yeah I also think Scidadle's posts were good. Maybe Varist is the one who should pls just go.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

lol chill out guys
i just thought it was cool that a really really big name in the fighting game community (friggin Justin Wong of all people) knew some **** about melee and likes watching it, even if he doesn't necessarily know the finer details.

here he is commentating on a melee match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQKg6T3xKm0

and here i come back to find that people are having a petty argument about whether or not the fgc hates us cuz we're petty

 

[Mahie]

Maybe Varist is the one who should pls just go.

I do believe that's the general consensus on Varist anyway.

 

[Varist]

pls go every1 i'm busy being the batman this hypocrisy needs but u guys don't deserve me litel kids this days

 

[machinegungeek]

LOL, yeah i think his proof needs some work. I'm not sure how "hop jumping is the new short hopping" implies Melee > SG, and "Even though the SG community is amazing and should be put on the Genesis 3 roster" isn't even a proposition, so it's a mystery as to how that implies Melee < 3 SG.

Well, we can say that Melee > SG based on a number of metrics, such as Evo presence, donation money raised, or community size.

Also, it's clearly not a > 3*SG but an invocation of the <3 binary relation, wich we call "love". It's properties are pathologically ill-behaved and undefined.

On the note of the SSBM/FGC discussion, I'm actually w/ Varist. Scidadle may have had some decent points, but he constructed his arguments poorly enough that the contradictions Varist pointed out were impossible (for me at least) to ignore.

Telling the whole community to "shape up" is totally unfair. Yeah, we have a few screw ups. SOOO surprisimg for a community that plays 10-year old kids game to attract a few losers. What are we supposed to do, kick them out of the community? I haven't played SSBM for that long, but have had experiences in Europe, the midwest, and now NorCal, and each experience was largely positive. Sure each region has some screwups, but as a whole, all 3 were great. We are not a bad community, lol.

And it's not like the FGC is clean or anything. Plenty of things to bring up here. How about the sexism thing? I mean, Melee is a HUGE sausage-fest, but any time I've seen a girl sit down and play, it was treated casually/normally. And we have less sh*t-talk in general (esp. these days) compared to the FGC, which I prefer.

Really, we're outside the FGC because Smash being popular/different/Nintendo, plus how our community evolved (on its own away from the FGC) has put us on the outside of the FGC. It's not because they by and large hate our game, it's just how it happened. And outsiders are always looked upon negatively until proven otherwise. Humans are tribal like that.

 

[Hazygoose]

can't decide if varist or kink-link won this thread...

 

[Revven]

On a related note, UltrachenTV is going to be talking about the winner of the donation drive tonight.

Tune in: http://www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv

Should be fun & interesting.

 

[machinegungeek]

LOL at cross counter bringing up Melee and showing Brawl footage. Stay free.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's funny because FGC people always laugh at our weird terms.

Friendlies = casuals
Dittos = mirrors or mirror match

Those smash terms sound ridiculous tbh

Dittos make way more sense than a mirror match.

 

[Vulcan55]

Mirror makes sense in 2D fighters, because the characters are just mirrored sprites.
With 3D models, they just turn it around, ruining the mirror effect.

 

[Exeggutorr]

That's funny because FGC people always laugh at our weird terms.

Friendlies = casuals
Dittos = mirrors or mirror match

Those smash terms sound ridiculous tbh

These were probably two horrible examples. lol

Friendlies is a term used in multiple sporting events; they are usually exhibition matches.

Dittos sounds much better than mirrors or mirror match IMO. Seriously, Mirrors sounds so awkward to say.

 

[Vixen]

This is 100% wrong.

>Assuming you can't find the same trolls in any FGC
>Assuming SSBM is going to magically attract worse kinds of people
>Basically calling all of us autistic ******s in our own thread

Smash gets hate because it's Smash. Not because they don't like our community, we each have exactly the same follies in varying amounts.

you're the one who's completely wrong. <3

 

[CloneHat]

you're the one who's completely wrong. <3

This thread is awful

 

[Impact009]

Telling the whole community to "shape up" is totally unfair. Yeah, we have a few screw ups. SOOO surprisimg for a community that plays 10-year old kids game to attract a few losers. What are we supposed to do, kick them out of the community? I haven't played SSBM for that long, but have had experiences in Europe, the midwest, and now NorCal, and each experience was largely positive. Sure each region has some screwups, but as a whole, all 3 were great. We are not a bad community, lol.

And it's not like the FGC is clean or anything. Plenty of things to bring up here. How about the sexism thing? I mean, Melee is a HUGE sausage-fest, but any time I've seen a girl sit down and play, it was treated casually/normally. And we have less sh*t-talk in general (esp. these days) compared to the FGC, which I prefer.

Really, we're outside the FGC because Smash being popular/different/Nintendo, plus how our community evolved (on its own away from the FGC) has put us on the outside of the FGC. It's not because they by and large hate our game, it's just how it happened. And outsiders are always looked upon negatively until proven otherwise. Humans are tribal like that.

Yes, you do kick them out. Capcom pulled the plug on Aris. We've always had ******s like Dark Prince and Josh Wigfall, but on the flip side, if you're going to play into it, then don't be two-faced and act insulted.

If you actually watch the show, then you'll see Pakozdi enjoying the attention the day before she quit, giggling and laughing. She then gets completely outclassed by a 'Gief and an Abel, then has to play the sexism card and quit due to an unrelated issue. Don't misunderstand me, I think Aris was definitely in the wrong, but Pakozdi definitely isn't innocent based on how she withdrew.

There are too many double standards to go through concerning sexism. We were accused of misrepresenting females in the community, which isn't true at all. They really just cannot compete with JWong, Daigo, Ortiz, Vangief, Gamerbee, and whoever else. Regardless, we held the controversial girls-only tourney at EVO2K10. As much as people want to say that was only a "side event," the golden fight sticks being rewarded prizes contradicted that.

Harli's opponent a couple of years ago played his hardest with his main against her and destroyed her. He promptly got booed off of the stage. This was coming from Aris's community of all communities... Thomas Osaki would have been very disappointed.

The real reason why we didn't evolve with the FGC was because we're a console game. EVO, SBO, and all of those weeklies in CA, NY, and NJ didn't start using consoles until around mid-2000. They were using cabinets for the prior decade. Even small games like Melty Blood and crap like Arcana Hearts had representation because they were on cabinet.

EVO2K7 was a great event for Smash. PC Chris and Mew2King made a good impression on Bacardi (which was huge), and even JWong tried Melee for a bit. However, we never had problems with tourney prizes being delayed, funds beings misappropriated, or fixed matches. OC3 and MLG Dallas partially contributed to the reason as to why SRK never fully accepted Smash.

I can only think of one time when some crap like that happened, and it was when Ranma screwed some winners out of a SBO qualifier to fix his own team. Our answer? Boycott his events, and even the import community boycotted his events.

Yes, shape up. It may be "totally unfair," but Smash is the smaller community trying to gain acceptance. Smash needs SRK more than SRK needs Smash, and if that wasn't true, then you guys wouldn't be trying so hard to gain our acceptance.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

So impact are you a member of both the fgc and the smash community or primarily fgc/srk?