~Shin~
Smash Apprentice
I had 3 hours of play today on a Japanese copy a good, good friend of mine owns.
I will be quick about this post, because I have to work tomorrow.
Ganondorf is a different character.
Thats the first thing I thought. I was very upset because of the change in Ganondorf. Its because of that change that a lot of us Ganondorf players will feel the same way I have. However, after a solid hour of playing, I got much faster because I was playing smarter with my attacks.
Heres some random info.
Thunder Punch {Standing + A} Now kills at high percent. Its one of your fastest attacks, and it has a semi SET knockback. At 0% it will send pretty much any foe very far back. I killed with the thunder punch atleast 4 times in the three hours I played. And it was only till the end did I realize how much more useful that attack is. Its a spacing tool at low percentages. Its fast enough to interrupt other opponents through attacks, it has huge freakin priority, and ****... IT KILLS, I CAN F***ING SHOVE A CLAWED HAND AT YOUR FACE AND SAY DIE! AND YOU WILL F***ING DIE!!! ... sorry, just excited.
-cough-
Your forward tilt is a killer, its almost just as fast as your Thunder Punch. The range is actually just about the same as the one in Melee, I didn't get to use this move too many times.
Down Tilt is faster, in the fact that you can use it multiple times. Against t!mmy's Kirby, I was able at lower percentages to knock him up for an upairial.
Vulture Kick {UP + A -air-} This is your primary airial, if you do it at the right height it will almost have NO lag, chain this together again, and again, and again.. why? Because EVERY airial you have has pretty much DUMB lag (xcept backairial)
Hidden Gauntlet {BACK + A -air-} The same with Vulture Kick, this move has low lag, and has good rewards. Hard hitting just like in melee. It does not have a hit-box that stays out for a long time. You have to actually hit with it.. his fist, has to touch, your opponent. I'll have to say I don't want to misread this attack, believe it or not, I didn't use it much. omg.. volcano kick
VOLCANO KICK - I was so pissed this made it to brawl.. however, it actually has utility. How many times have us Ganondorf players used this move and not hit? a billion. you hit with it once a week, or once a month, never in a tournament. This move hit 5 times tonight. I hit two opponents at once twice, and a single opponent 3 times. This move has a vaccume in the front of it that will suck characters into the attack. The leg hits from in front of him BEFORE it impacts as well, meaning, it hits faster, you don't have to wait for the leg to hit the ground. The Vaccume prevented me from getting jabbed once, becaue they were standing still, and the vaccume pulled them away from me. There is less knockback with this move however. The Warloc punch is the killer
Warloc punch, looks cooler, a little faster? I duno, it kills. I killed with it twice tonight.
Down Air no longer combos, it is a finisher, and a spike, it does not lead to opportunities.
Forward Air no longer combos, it is a finisher, and does not lead to opportunities
Flying Keese-Neutral airial has ending lag when I was using it today. I am one of the GAnodnorf players that uses Neu-airs in tournament play to VERY good results, its one of my stables and I hit a lot with it. This attack is causing me anger. It no longer kills at high percents (when I was using it, I could be wrong) but it seems to combo easier at lower percents. I can't chain these together like I did in Melee, Stick to Vulture kick and Hidden Gauntlet
Nightmare Lunge - Forward Smash
This attack works like the Overheat Elbow (falcons forward smash) It hits fast, and it sends them away. NOT up. This kills very nicely, and will be a good kill move. Don't ask me about armor frames, I didn't see any, I need to find them.
Gerudo Dragon - Once you grab somebody, its like your invincible, I think theres something up with this move, because sometimes I got hit out of it by other players, other times I just owned them.
You will plumet to your death after using this attack in the air, you can't move after it. You CAN recover with it however (you'll grasp the ledge) If you forward B over the edge, you will fall to your death, it doesn't catch (unless theres a trick to it, I tried 3 times, costing me a match)
The grab on this move is immensly impressive. they can shield all they want, its a freakin grab, you will break their neck. Air grab,
Before t!mmy Kirbicided me once, I Dorfacided him twice I think. was great. We laughed a lot. This move is very satisfying.
Iron Shoulder - dash attack Has changed. IF you need to get across the stage faster do a couple dash attacks, it speeds you up a LOT. This move goes farther, makes you move faster, and hits VERY hard. I killed with it once (maybe twice) It sets up for a combo if you hit with the end few frames. otherwise, it knocks them really high in the air. Good move, I need to use it more.
Downsmash - Leg-whip - this move I don't know what to say about. the first hit seems to come out at an ok speed. This move kills now, it does not lead to combos. The second hit of it, sends opponents away from you. I killed with it once only because I was at the side of the stage, recoverying, and downsmashed right away. They went behind me and off into oblivion.
Up-smash (I don't know the name) This is Ganondorfs FASTEST smash attack. ITS REALLY FAST, you can CHAIN them together JUST as fast as your thunderpunch pretty much. I stood and did this move over and over and people looked at me going WTF!? Thats NUTS. The hitbox in front of Ganon is bigger (Bigger Crotch ftw, booya) and beause of the chain feature of this you can probably do combos with it. I am VERY angry I wasn't able to test the ability of the upsmash, its the one smash we Ganon players really don't use that often (atleast I don't) Now it looks like the upsmash will be part of playing Ganondorf effectively. There will be some kinda throw or combo that leads to this, I can smell it. Forward smash kills better however ^_^
Forgive the order of this stuff, I'm typing as fast as I freakin can.
Ganondorf overall moves slower, he is a tank. He is Bowser (I worried myself justly and played Bowser for a month and a half)
My fingers would put in commands and sometimes Ganondorf wouldn't follow them because he was still lagging after moves, or had not jumped yet. I had to slow down my play style a little for the sake of learning. When I HAD played a few hours, I was much better, and could chain together attacks better.
Your Wizards Foot apparently spikes at the first few frames (like Falco's down-air) You can do this attack FROM A RUN, you don't crouch when you use it. It doesn't kill as good as it used too, but it makes you go VERY far, and you go VERY fast. You don't have a jump after using this move, i'm not sure if its a good idea to use it at all for recovery aspects (floating holding towards stage or using this move to go at an angle, is there a gain or loss, I duno) This attack comes out almost instantly, the first few frames of the attack on the ground I was not able to hit smaller opponents who were crouching, or people behind me, I didn't have the opportunity of hitting somebody on top of me however. Its a FAST move, we will be using it a lot more often, after attacks to hit opponents who are far away (Thunder-Punch + Wizards Foot hit once today as a combo, the combo went from one side of final destination to the other side, two hit combo, I don't remember percent it did)
Dark Dive, you will grab people with it, it does wait wait wait---
new info. Thunder Drop SOUNDS AMAZING, I FREAKIN HEARD LIGHTNING, I think there was rumbling from thunder after the attack, at all percentages the game looks like it STOPS when you hit with this. DEVISTATING, (again, it kills, nothing more, nothing less)
Dark dive, yes, you grab with it, it has amazing priority, it kinda sucks opponents in. The end few frames of the move you do an upercut, has REALLY REALLY GOOD PRIORITY, my fist doesn't even connect and it hits, HUGE HITBOX. I upsmashed to up B at mid-high percentages and killed Lucas.
From the edge I pressed down away and released from the edge, and Dark Dived, hitting several times. Better Edgerecovery attack than I thought.
Your Side-dodge is faster, use it
Your roll is a little slower, but I think it has a lot more invincibility, ROLL!
Your run isn't THAT slow, throw a dash attack in there to close distances better.
Recovery from the edge. IF you get up you get shield grabbed
If you jump you get hit
If you roll you get grabbed
Your screwed. I'm still baffled as to how to get up from the edge. And I've developed some amazing things to do from the edge in melee (such as using the wizards foot from the edge, short-hop wizards foot is REALLY fast in melee, and as an advanced technique, you can actually short-hop down B and hit with the... END FRAME!? thats right, you will immedietly smash the ground. It is the FASTEST recovery move possible By Ganon in MElee from the edge, however... yea, thats right, you have to sit on the ground a little and recover. only works well at High percentages. its extremely hard to do.. but brawl is here, Melee is dead to me)
Volcano kick has its range farther away from Ganon, forgot to say.
FINAL SMASH
I was able to use this in the air. IT stuns opponents IN THE AIR, and ON THE GROUND
IT is a 1-shotting move, every time. You pretty much are garunteeeeeeeeeed a kill.
Thinking.... omg I want more sleep than I got last night.
I was being outprioratized left and right by other peoples attacks. Robot is a fast character that has range btw, t0mmy plays a good R.O.B.
Bowsers grab is freakin nuts. it has an invisible HUGE hitbox grab..
Warrio is so freakin awesome he makes me laugh. He hits pretty hard, and is decently fast.
Shiek is still broken, I wasnt' able to land a hit on her.
Zelda's down-A hits like her forward A and my own freakin thunderdrop, she's a lightweight.
What I saw of Marth didn't scare me, I killed that yaoi boy.
Ike has young links fire spike (we'll figure it out later)
The Vulture kick-up air- doesn't do its nifty spike as easily (the end frames) It just doesnt hit as hard from the back side. I didn't get to test it as much. BECAUSE
Your jumps are nerfed
You don't have as much air-control
I can't do crazy twisted jumps to make up for no wavelanding/dashing or L-canceling, so its hard to do airials because I have a new set limit to my first and second jumps
Footstool jumps will suprise the hell out of you, I was like WTFBBQ!? When I lept on somebodies head.
I killed somebody trying to kill me because of that.
you don't have to have any jumps in order to footstool jump somebody.
Your taunts make you feel tough. I like punching my fist and laughing
Again, your Gerudo DRagon over the edge as a recovery is priceless, it hits and makes you feel like you owned somebody.
I sucked at chaining my Gerudo Dragons together, I need to get better at it. But before that, I have to look at the good things.
This is a different Ganondorf people, a slower, darker, more powerful King of Evil. His speed is akin to Bowsers in Melee, but your faster in your attacks. I don't know our combo's yet, i'm going to figure them out for us and once again write guides, helping us all get our place as masters.
I was going to try out snake, kirby, metaknight, and a few others, but after playing Ganondorf once, I knew I had a lot of work to do.
A LOT OF WORK.
I am a Ganondorf master, and I'm telling you, we all need to work hard to figure this out. Don't let anyone tell you, he sucks, theres no hidden things inside the character at all, your doomed. Keep trying.
You know I don't give up.
Things to figure out. ..
I need to figure out what my armor frames are. Which attacks can I use, KNOWING, I can hit through people attacking me because I have armor. (my god I better have armor)
HOW TO APPROACH opponents, using fast attacks or perfectly spaced attacks. Your Forward Air has to be placed VERY carefully in order fo you to survive the lag. I'm starting to believe I shoudl not use this at all to approach. The up airial and nuetral airial and back air are the only things I need to think about right now. from where do I use this,
Which throws lead to more hits.. I don't know, Down throw, Dirt Nap, will probably lead to something good... I don't know yet.
yes, running and falling off the stage with a Vulture Kick (up air) is still a great edge-guarding technique.
Dark Dive -up+B sends you up, a lot. our recovery has been nerfed, but, we get back from some rediculous stuff still (omg misspelling everything I NEED SLEEP)
I feel like i'm ness and air-dodging or UP+B'ing back and looking like i'm going to miss, but wow, I grab the edge. that happends with all characters. you don't have to face it, you will grab it.
pretty nuts.
Edge-hogging I think... is gone. I grabbed people hanging on the edge a LOT, over and over too.
I really do need sleep.
I look forward to testing more Brawl for you all.
~Shin_Ganondorf~
edit-why did I not go to bed.... oh well.
I need a new signa, I spent an extra 10 minutes uploading that?
... ...ugh
zzz's
I will be quick about this post, because I have to work tomorrow.
Ganondorf is a different character.
Thats the first thing I thought. I was very upset because of the change in Ganondorf. Its because of that change that a lot of us Ganondorf players will feel the same way I have. However, after a solid hour of playing, I got much faster because I was playing smarter with my attacks.
Heres some random info.
Thunder Punch {Standing + A} Now kills at high percent. Its one of your fastest attacks, and it has a semi SET knockback. At 0% it will send pretty much any foe very far back. I killed with the thunder punch atleast 4 times in the three hours I played. And it was only till the end did I realize how much more useful that attack is. Its a spacing tool at low percentages. Its fast enough to interrupt other opponents through attacks, it has huge freakin priority, and ****... IT KILLS, I CAN F***ING SHOVE A CLAWED HAND AT YOUR FACE AND SAY DIE! AND YOU WILL F***ING DIE!!! ... sorry, just excited.
-cough-
Your forward tilt is a killer, its almost just as fast as your Thunder Punch. The range is actually just about the same as the one in Melee, I didn't get to use this move too many times.
Down Tilt is faster, in the fact that you can use it multiple times. Against t!mmy's Kirby, I was able at lower percentages to knock him up for an upairial.
Vulture Kick {UP + A -air-} This is your primary airial, if you do it at the right height it will almost have NO lag, chain this together again, and again, and again.. why? Because EVERY airial you have has pretty much DUMB lag (xcept backairial)
Hidden Gauntlet {BACK + A -air-} The same with Vulture Kick, this move has low lag, and has good rewards. Hard hitting just like in melee. It does not have a hit-box that stays out for a long time. You have to actually hit with it.. his fist, has to touch, your opponent. I'll have to say I don't want to misread this attack, believe it or not, I didn't use it much. omg.. volcano kick
VOLCANO KICK - I was so pissed this made it to brawl.. however, it actually has utility. How many times have us Ganondorf players used this move and not hit? a billion. you hit with it once a week, or once a month, never in a tournament. This move hit 5 times tonight. I hit two opponents at once twice, and a single opponent 3 times. This move has a vaccume in the front of it that will suck characters into the attack. The leg hits from in front of him BEFORE it impacts as well, meaning, it hits faster, you don't have to wait for the leg to hit the ground. The Vaccume prevented me from getting jabbed once, becaue they were standing still, and the vaccume pulled them away from me. There is less knockback with this move however. The Warloc punch is the killer
Warloc punch, looks cooler, a little faster? I duno, it kills. I killed with it twice tonight.
Down Air no longer combos, it is a finisher, and a spike, it does not lead to opportunities.
Forward Air no longer combos, it is a finisher, and does not lead to opportunities
Flying Keese-Neutral airial has ending lag when I was using it today. I am one of the GAnodnorf players that uses Neu-airs in tournament play to VERY good results, its one of my stables and I hit a lot with it. This attack is causing me anger. It no longer kills at high percents (when I was using it, I could be wrong) but it seems to combo easier at lower percents. I can't chain these together like I did in Melee, Stick to Vulture kick and Hidden Gauntlet
Nightmare Lunge - Forward Smash
This attack works like the Overheat Elbow (falcons forward smash) It hits fast, and it sends them away. NOT up. This kills very nicely, and will be a good kill move. Don't ask me about armor frames, I didn't see any, I need to find them.
Gerudo Dragon - Once you grab somebody, its like your invincible, I think theres something up with this move, because sometimes I got hit out of it by other players, other times I just owned them.
You will plumet to your death after using this attack in the air, you can't move after it. You CAN recover with it however (you'll grasp the ledge) If you forward B over the edge, you will fall to your death, it doesn't catch (unless theres a trick to it, I tried 3 times, costing me a match)
The grab on this move is immensly impressive. they can shield all they want, its a freakin grab, you will break their neck. Air grab,
Before t!mmy Kirbicided me once, I Dorfacided him twice I think. was great. We laughed a lot. This move is very satisfying.
Iron Shoulder - dash attack Has changed. IF you need to get across the stage faster do a couple dash attacks, it speeds you up a LOT. This move goes farther, makes you move faster, and hits VERY hard. I killed with it once (maybe twice) It sets up for a combo if you hit with the end few frames. otherwise, it knocks them really high in the air. Good move, I need to use it more.
Downsmash - Leg-whip - this move I don't know what to say about. the first hit seems to come out at an ok speed. This move kills now, it does not lead to combos. The second hit of it, sends opponents away from you. I killed with it once only because I was at the side of the stage, recoverying, and downsmashed right away. They went behind me and off into oblivion.
Up-smash (I don't know the name) This is Ganondorfs FASTEST smash attack. ITS REALLY FAST, you can CHAIN them together JUST as fast as your thunderpunch pretty much. I stood and did this move over and over and people looked at me going WTF!? Thats NUTS. The hitbox in front of Ganon is bigger (Bigger Crotch ftw, booya) and beause of the chain feature of this you can probably do combos with it. I am VERY angry I wasn't able to test the ability of the upsmash, its the one smash we Ganon players really don't use that often (atleast I don't) Now it looks like the upsmash will be part of playing Ganondorf effectively. There will be some kinda throw or combo that leads to this, I can smell it. Forward smash kills better however ^_^
Forgive the order of this stuff, I'm typing as fast as I freakin can.
Ganondorf overall moves slower, he is a tank. He is Bowser (I worried myself justly and played Bowser for a month and a half)
My fingers would put in commands and sometimes Ganondorf wouldn't follow them because he was still lagging after moves, or had not jumped yet. I had to slow down my play style a little for the sake of learning. When I HAD played a few hours, I was much better, and could chain together attacks better.
Your Wizards Foot apparently spikes at the first few frames (like Falco's down-air) You can do this attack FROM A RUN, you don't crouch when you use it. It doesn't kill as good as it used too, but it makes you go VERY far, and you go VERY fast. You don't have a jump after using this move, i'm not sure if its a good idea to use it at all for recovery aspects (floating holding towards stage or using this move to go at an angle, is there a gain or loss, I duno) This attack comes out almost instantly, the first few frames of the attack on the ground I was not able to hit smaller opponents who were crouching, or people behind me, I didn't have the opportunity of hitting somebody on top of me however. Its a FAST move, we will be using it a lot more often, after attacks to hit opponents who are far away (Thunder-Punch + Wizards Foot hit once today as a combo, the combo went from one side of final destination to the other side, two hit combo, I don't remember percent it did)
Dark Dive, you will grab people with it, it does wait wait wait---
new info. Thunder Drop SOUNDS AMAZING, I FREAKIN HEARD LIGHTNING, I think there was rumbling from thunder after the attack, at all percentages the game looks like it STOPS when you hit with this. DEVISTATING, (again, it kills, nothing more, nothing less)
Dark dive, yes, you grab with it, it has amazing priority, it kinda sucks opponents in. The end few frames of the move you do an upercut, has REALLY REALLY GOOD PRIORITY, my fist doesn't even connect and it hits, HUGE HITBOX. I upsmashed to up B at mid-high percentages and killed Lucas.
From the edge I pressed down away and released from the edge, and Dark Dived, hitting several times. Better Edgerecovery attack than I thought.
Your Side-dodge is faster, use it
Your roll is a little slower, but I think it has a lot more invincibility, ROLL!
Your run isn't THAT slow, throw a dash attack in there to close distances better.
Recovery from the edge. IF you get up you get shield grabbed
If you jump you get hit
If you roll you get grabbed
Your screwed. I'm still baffled as to how to get up from the edge. And I've developed some amazing things to do from the edge in melee (such as using the wizards foot from the edge, short-hop wizards foot is REALLY fast in melee, and as an advanced technique, you can actually short-hop down B and hit with the... END FRAME!? thats right, you will immedietly smash the ground. It is the FASTEST recovery move possible By Ganon in MElee from the edge, however... yea, thats right, you have to sit on the ground a little and recover. only works well at High percentages. its extremely hard to do.. but brawl is here, Melee is dead to me)
Volcano kick has its range farther away from Ganon, forgot to say.
FINAL SMASH
I was able to use this in the air. IT stuns opponents IN THE AIR, and ON THE GROUND
IT is a 1-shotting move, every time. You pretty much are garunteeeeeeeeeed a kill.
Thinking.... omg I want more sleep than I got last night.
I was being outprioratized left and right by other peoples attacks. Robot is a fast character that has range btw, t0mmy plays a good R.O.B.
Bowsers grab is freakin nuts. it has an invisible HUGE hitbox grab..
Warrio is so freakin awesome he makes me laugh. He hits pretty hard, and is decently fast.
Shiek is still broken, I wasnt' able to land a hit on her.
Zelda's down-A hits like her forward A and my own freakin thunderdrop, she's a lightweight.
What I saw of Marth didn't scare me, I killed that yaoi boy.
Ike has young links fire spike (we'll figure it out later)
The Vulture kick-up air- doesn't do its nifty spike as easily (the end frames) It just doesnt hit as hard from the back side. I didn't get to test it as much. BECAUSE
Your jumps are nerfed
You don't have as much air-control
I can't do crazy twisted jumps to make up for no wavelanding/dashing or L-canceling, so its hard to do airials because I have a new set limit to my first and second jumps
Footstool jumps will suprise the hell out of you, I was like WTFBBQ!? When I lept on somebodies head.
I killed somebody trying to kill me because of that.
you don't have to have any jumps in order to footstool jump somebody.
Your taunts make you feel tough. I like punching my fist and laughing
Again, your Gerudo DRagon over the edge as a recovery is priceless, it hits and makes you feel like you owned somebody.
I sucked at chaining my Gerudo Dragons together, I need to get better at it. But before that, I have to look at the good things.
This is a different Ganondorf people, a slower, darker, more powerful King of Evil. His speed is akin to Bowsers in Melee, but your faster in your attacks. I don't know our combo's yet, i'm going to figure them out for us and once again write guides, helping us all get our place as masters.
I was going to try out snake, kirby, metaknight, and a few others, but after playing Ganondorf once, I knew I had a lot of work to do.
A LOT OF WORK.
I am a Ganondorf master, and I'm telling you, we all need to work hard to figure this out. Don't let anyone tell you, he sucks, theres no hidden things inside the character at all, your doomed. Keep trying.
You know I don't give up.
Things to figure out. ..
I need to figure out what my armor frames are. Which attacks can I use, KNOWING, I can hit through people attacking me because I have armor. (my god I better have armor)
HOW TO APPROACH opponents, using fast attacks or perfectly spaced attacks. Your Forward Air has to be placed VERY carefully in order fo you to survive the lag. I'm starting to believe I shoudl not use this at all to approach. The up airial and nuetral airial and back air are the only things I need to think about right now. from where do I use this,
Which throws lead to more hits.. I don't know, Down throw, Dirt Nap, will probably lead to something good... I don't know yet.
yes, running and falling off the stage with a Vulture Kick (up air) is still a great edge-guarding technique.
Dark Dive -up+B sends you up, a lot. our recovery has been nerfed, but, we get back from some rediculous stuff still (omg misspelling everything I NEED SLEEP)
I feel like i'm ness and air-dodging or UP+B'ing back and looking like i'm going to miss, but wow, I grab the edge. that happends with all characters. you don't have to face it, you will grab it.
pretty nuts.
Edge-hogging I think... is gone. I grabbed people hanging on the edge a LOT, over and over too.
I really do need sleep.
I look forward to testing more Brawl for you all.
~Shin_Ganondorf~
edit-why did I not go to bed.... oh well.
I need a new signa, I spent an extra 10 minutes uploading that?
... ...ugh
zzz's
