Joke Thread

[Yobolight]

 

[Cobrevolution]

you should probably be focusing on having fun.

my girlfriend and i were discussing smash and apex last night, and we got onto the topic of gameplay. she brought up an interesting point - how our personalities/traits affect our gameplay.

in essence, she explained how isai's jigglypuff - while incredible - was boring. uair to rest. she said that there was so little variation, also in mario, from what she saw, and with falcon. everyone relies on the same groups of combos because they've been proven to work best.

she then mentioned boom, and how his play style was very different, maybe because he's younger, and thus more likely to take risks. boom celebrates and laughs and has great energy, and seemingly does things that may not work, but **** it, if they do, they'll be awesome.

when you get older and you're not tempted to try some insane, semi suicidal tricks, you might play a bit more conservatively or defensively, or with maximum efficiency (which usually leads to boredom).

all that being said, regarding perfection to the point of no innovation, i mean, you can always play different stages and turn items on. those two options introduce a whole slew of new techniques. i haven't played with items in a MINUTE, because all my friends think they're unfair. shrug.

this isn't a knock or criticism towards anyone who is objectively better than me. but it isn't hard to tell when someone is playing to win instead of playing for enjoyment.

howEVA,

This is really frustrating to me because my enjoyment of this game hinged on my ability to play with my favorite characters and now that I can rarely ever take a game off top/high tier with my low tiers and occasionally I get 5 stocked.

it was sheer, i think, who said if you really want to get good at a matchup, play it ad infinitum. the reason he can perform so well against pikachu is because he's played pikachu a LOT.

 

[Nintendude]

A lot of the depth in Smash games comes from mastering your movement, zoning, and covering options. My guess would be that you've only scraped the surface of these aspects of the game with the low tiers. They all have the tools to win. It's just that high tiers have more tools (which tend to be easier) and get more mileage off of their openings.

 

[Han Solo]

So you're playing the same people over and over and everyone is adapting to each other's playstyles? That sounds about right.

I play Firo all the time. I know how to play and beat Ness with Fox. I've taken plenty of games off Firo. Yeah, he has his bag of tricks, but I don't fall for them anymore. He still woops me because he's an amazing player. If you're doing the same thing over and over again, eventually your opponent will notice.

And Nintendude is right. Movement and spacing are critical. Why do you think boom is better than, I don't know, Jaime? I guarantee they can do the same combos. At high level play, it's not just about a bag of tricks, it's about where and when to use them.

 

[clubbadubba]

Well #1 I don't think that you, or me, or a lot of people, have reached what should be called "high level smash." So rest assured that there are lots of improvements still to be made and the metagame you currently employ can and will be vastly improved upon.

Unfortunately, low tiers are low tiers for a reason. That shouldn't mean you get completely dominated by the high tiers of players around your caliber. It should be harder to win, but still very, very possible. This game is more balanced top to bottom than the other smash games. But in the end, some characters are worse than others, an inevitability of creating multiple characters with different attributes.

I have had the opposite experience of you it seems. The better I get, the more fun this game is. It does seem like a bottomless pit to me. Even when my matches aren't fun to spectate, my mind is constantly working on overdrive and I am having a lot of fun playing.

People have been getting better over the last 3-4 years that I've really been playing, and it seems like the metagame has been pushed further than ever. And even if we have maxed out the metagame, 14 years is quite a long run of game adaptations. Plus, if you aren't anywhere close to the current metagame in skill like me and you, then I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

So you're playing the same people over and over and everyone is adapting to each other's playstyles? That sounds about right.

And Nintendude is right. Movement and spacing are critical. At high level play, it's not just about a bag of tricks, it's about where and when to use them.

What they said. If anything spacing is the most important as everyone on a high-top level play has those combos. Look at all of the jumping around in the apex finals and other high level events. People know that useful combos are rather basic outside of following DI or techs. It is spacing and reads that matter.

Spoiler

The similar combos is honestly one of the reasons why people like brawl, but I won't go there more than this spoiled post.

 

[The Star King]

This thread is just infuriating, from the very first sentence. I don't even know where to start. I don't see how you can come to this conclusion when you aren't even anywhere near high level, nor do you understand it.

What's more, low tiers being the basis for attacking this game is really ironic considering this game is much more balanced than the other two Smash games.

Answer me this: if Smash 64 is not very deep, why does such a gap between Isai/Boomfan and everyone else (in NA) exist? It indicates a ton of room for improvement. I'll only take claims of a shallow game seriously if you get on their level.

Sorry if I'm being condescending but honestly I'm being a lot more civil than I expected, because this thread is legitimately aggravating.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

Yobooooo!!!

YOU GET ME.
Smash sucks so i quit and started playing DDAR.
Best game ever.

Benedict Arnold and Paul Revere are SO dirty...
But a conservative John Adams is the PERFECT counter pick!





Bleh I tried typing a serious response but it just wasn't happening. I'm ganna go to the dinning hall now. Kero is hungry. Seya later alligators.

 

[kys]

This thread is just infuriating, from the very first sentence. I don't even know where to start. I don't see how you can come to this conclusion when you aren't even anywhere near high level, nor do you understand it.

What's more, low tiers being the basis for attacking this game is really ironic considering this game is much more balanced than the other two Smash games.

Answer me this: if Smash 64 is not very deep, why does such a gap between Isai/Boomfan and everyone else (in NA) exist? It indicates a ton of room for improvement. I'll only take claims of a shallow game seriously if you get on their level.

Sorry if I'm being condescending but honestly I'm being a lot more civil than I expected, because this thread is legitimately aggravating.

I didn't want to be "that guy", so thanks for posting this.

 

[Battlecow]

Good job being civil SK (dead serious, I expected you to flip at least a little ****)

This is bad and you should feel bad Yobo. It's bad on a lot of levels, but let's just go ahead and assume that what you say about low tiers is true. You're stupid for coming to the conclusion that the metagame is bad.

Go into a melee tourney and tell them that since you're better with marth than roy their game sucks

go enter a ping pong tournament and let them know that since you can't win with penhold you're quitting

Jesus man, I don't know how you didn't see that. The fact that you even expected to win with low tiers shows how freaking balanced this game is. THEY'RE WORSE CHARACTERS.

Cobr I don't like any of what you said either. Isai's jiggs' uair stuff is super cool. Age has nothing to do with effective play. There's much much more than a lifetime's worth of perfecting to do of your smash game, and items/stages are therefore unnecessary for newness.

Basically it boils down to get better. Yobo, if you wanna beat your friends with low tiers you have to be much better than them. It's definitely possible, as evidenced by the many, many people who could four-stock you and your friends with the entire cast and without any sort of "gimmicky" play.

tl;dr someone make me a mod so I can ban yobo and we can focus on more productive avenues of discussion, like anime or how much muscle we've all been putting on lately

 

[kys]

Never thought I'd hear Isai was boring while Boom was flashy. I guess there's a first time for everything.

 

[Yobolight]

SK and Battlecow I am glad that you guys are hating on me. The fire to keep practicing is coming back to me.

Im also glad that you guys think that I have a lot to learn, but I want yall to keep in mind that that ever since I lost to Kerokeroppi in December that we have made massive improvements in quality of gameplay.

I am not saying that I am on some of yalls level, but this isn't the same n00b posting scrubby videos.

I am convinced that I have discovered the "Holy Grail" of methods for quickly getting better at this game though and will just continue to work harder.


Edit: Also @Battlecow I am convinced that no Ness on the planet could 4-stock my Pikachu on Dreamland (maybe Nangoku).

 

[Cobrevolution]

Cobr I don't like any of what you said either. Isai's jiggs' uair stuff is super cool. Age has nothing to do with effective play. There's much much more than a lifetime's worth of perfecting to do of your smash game, and items/stages are therefore unnecessary for newness.

well see, it was what my girlfriend said. that's why i said that in one of the first few sentences of my post.

although, this is the argument that can be made for many characters, can it not? the bona fide combos for each character are so well known and are often performed ad nauseum. puff's uair -> rest. falcon uair -> upb. samus dair -> bair. luigi uair -> upb. fox jab jab -> usmash. kirby utilt -> everything. dk tent throws -> usmash.

how many times have we seen these combos performed in matches? hundreds? thousands? in and of themselves, they're boring. paired with everything else that occurs in the match, they aren't. when ballin had me caught in a fox ftilt tent combo, he finished with a jab usmash. but everything before that was spectacular. but it came to the same old finish - which is not necessarily a bad thing; it's been proven to work, and is the best choice; i would never say to substitute something else in such a situation, but people notice when the same killmoves are performed time and time again.

regarding age, i did not say that age was a factor of effective play, but of playstyle in general. personality is a factor in this as well. you can see so many similarities in someone's personality and playstyle when you just sit back and watch. it's pretty startling.

as for the last thing, items/stages would definitely add a different kind of element. ever seen a porygon -> laser sword fsmash finish in a tournament? me either.

i'm not saying to bring back mushroom kingdom and maxim tomatoes. but i do tire of five stock dreamland for hours and hours and hours. and that goes for playing and watching.

 

[Nintendude]

I am convinced that I have discovered the "Holy Grail" of methods for quickly getting better at this game though and will just continue to work harder.

Please share

 

[clubbadubba]

I consider anyone at or below my level to be a scrub, because I know that I'm not very good in the grand scheme of things and have way too much left to learn to be considered "high level." So yobo, I do consider you a n00b, but don't take that the wrong way, I'm a n00b too

Spoiler

Though I suppose you could be better than me, who knows

@cobr, I don't buy your whole personality/play style correlation. You only look at the ones that correlate and then dismiss the ones that don't. Example, sheer plays a very aggressive yoshi, but he's a pretty reserved guy. Battlecow is a loud, obnoxious, patriotic mother ****er, but plays one of the campier styles you'll ever encounter. I could go on, but you get the idea. The correlation is so poor and random that it isn't really a correlation at all.

 

[Yobolight]

By high level I mean the full application of Combos and DI

High level = competitive style play = approximately people who placed in the top 40 at Apex

None of my statements should be interpreted as me saying that I am incredible at this game because I don't think I am.

I do think I am playing in the same realm of the metagame as many of you guys. I believe that some of the same stuff I think about whilst playing the game, you think about whilst playing the game.

 

[KnitePhox]

I wana play vs you yobo, to see how well you play; u play online at all?

 

[JaimeHR]

I wana play vs you yobo, to see how well you play; u play online at all?

inb4noonlineisfake

 

[KeroKeroppi]

A lot of you underestimate yobo, he and Jnatty aren't bad. They far exceeded my expectations when i played them in December.

 

[clubbadubba]

Well if that's what you consider high level then you really have nothing at all to worry about. If you aren't haven't fun at that level.... then that's another story and maybe smash just isn't your game. But in no way think that you've gotten close to capping out the metagame, or that you even understand what capping out the metagame would entail. That's not a knock on you, I'm in the same boat. Just know that there are people that 5 stock people that 5 stock people that 5 stock people that 5 stock people that 5 stock people that beat you.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

 

[KnitePhox]

Get pyramid-stocked.

 

[SadColor]

(feel free to tell me how much of an idiot i am because i'm probably wrong on everything)
I don't really get this. I mean, the reason high tiers are high tiers is because they're, well, better. It sounds like you're trying to practice all (or most) of the characters, so it makes sense that the high tiers would seem to get better faster, because, well, they're high tiers.
I dunno if I'm just being a dumb, assuming ****** or something, though. It makes sense to me because a character is better, once you get the basics it would be easier to learn more because they have more good traits.
I guess it also doesn't help that you're doing a lot of characters, trying a few characters at a time would be easier, I think.

...I think I had more to type but I forgot

 

[Yobolight]

I wana play vs you yobo, to see how well you play; u play online at all?

I bought an adapter, but sadly I can't find a copy of Windows.

 

[Cobrevolution]

@cobr, I don't buy your whole personality/play style correlation. You only look at the ones that correlate and then dismiss the ones that don't. Example, sheer plays a very aggressive yoshi, but he's a pretty reserved guy. Battlecow is a loud, obnoxious, patriotic mother ****er, but plays one of the campier styles you'll ever encounter. I could go on, but you get the idea. The correlation is so poor and random that it isn't really a correlation at all.

well, you can also look at the way a person presents himself. if you look at kaillera, matts' play style is a DIRECT correlation with his loud mouthiness.

but i do agree, not every style is dependent on personality; it's just something else to note and observe.

the apparent polarities are just as interesting to dissect, though; wouldn't you agree? could we perhaps view sheer's aggressive playstyle of yoshi to be an outlet for all the rage he harbors inside?
or maybe battlecow's campiness is indicative of his RELUCTANCE TO MAKE MOVES ON WOMEN.
or something.

of course, i'm exaggerating, and i slightly digress; but i do believe that there are correlations, whether direct or inverse.

i could probably write a paper on this.

 

[rjgbadger]

I bought an adapter, but sadly I can't find a copy of Windows.

learn to google?

 

[clubbadubba]

I was talking about irl personalities. Sheer is loud online, but completely different in person. Boom is always smiling irl, but doesn't say much in online chat. I wouldn't take any online personalities into account (MATTS!), unless you are using EXCLUSIVELY online or irl personalities. Also disagree with MATTS play matching his personality.

If your theory is that some play styles match personalities in one way, some match in another way, and some don't match at all, then not much is really being said.

 

[Cobrevolution]

if you never meet someone in real life, all you have to go on is his online persona.

my theory is that some playstyles echo personality types either directly or inversely, and it is interesting to examine both kinds.

this lends itself to a larger and further discussion of why people feel the need to "become" someone different online, or at the very least, act in ways they don't usually. i'm sure the idea of a screen is appealing and the concept of invention plays a large role, but i'm not sure. i'd like to learn more about that. but that particular topic is not for this thread.

 

[asianaussie]

i was entirely unaware smash 64 even had a metagame

since, y'know, the by-consensus best player in the world places ridiculously high at the only real majors with whoever he feels like using

 

[Battlecow]

the apparent polarities are just as interesting to dissect, though; wouldn't you agree? could we perhaps view sheer's aggressive playstyle of yoshi to be an outlet for all the rage he harbors inside?
or maybe battlecow's campiness is indicative of his RELUCTANCE TO MAKE MOVES ON WOMEN.
or something.
.

Dude I get way more ***** than you, JUST SAYING

I don't camp on playable stages

Clubba's just jealous 'cause I five-stocked him at apex

 

[Cobrevolution]

my girl gives me PLENTY, just SAYING

 

[KeroKeroppi]

On topic-
Did you guys hear oxygen and potassium went on a date?
It went OK.

 

[ballin4life]

So I started deeply examining mostly Jousuke's Samus but also other top player's (Isai (Everyone), Superboomfan (multiple), Jaime (Samus), Firo (Ness) and others) low tiers to see what they did. I came to the conclusion that what allowed these player's to succeed with Low tier was a ultimately match up inexperience on the part of the opponent. This is why Japanese tournaments (1 game and done) facilitate more low tier victories because every character has a bag of tricks that are employed throughout a set.

Wat. This makes no sense. If Samus is so bad how is it that Jousuke has won that Japanese tournament multiple times? If it takes this long for even ONE person to figure out Samus's "bag of tricks" then I think we can safely say that they aren't just gimmicks.

Low tiers rely on this bag of tricks far more than high tier characters that can rely on sheer fundamentals to win games. High tiers have a bag of tricks too, but don't rely on them to the same extent. Ultimately the low tiers in this game are merely gimmicks and their success revolves around messing with your opponent's conception of the matchup.

There's no obvious distinction between "gimmicks" and "fundamentals". I could say the same things about Pikachu.

ballin quibbling about definitions to the rescue!

 

[Battlecow]

Jousuke's record is MORE impressive because of the one-and-done thing. Winning every decently recent console tournament we know of that he's been at when variance is that high says volumes

 

[KnitePhox]

Yobo, you can use your favorite Linux distro and the application 'wine' to load the xp version of pj64k, that should work and its free

I recommend ubuntu or MINT for their easy for noobs to use ui

I think you can install them on a flash drive as well as beside any OS you have installed on a hdd

If you only own apple products that must suck



GOOD LUCK

 

[Yobolight]

Yobo, you can use your favorite Linux distro and the application 'wine' to load the xp version of pj64k, that should work and its free

I recommend ubuntu or MINT for their easy for noobs to use ui

I think you can install them on a flash drive as well as beside any OS you have installed on a hdd

If you only own apple products that must suck

GOOD LUCK

I don't know computer speak, but basically if I only have Apple then there is nothing I can do right?

 

[asianaussie]

that's the exact opposite of what he meant lol

go google 'ubuntu' for starters

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

On topic-
Did you guys hear oxygen and potassium went on a date?
It went OK.

I was going to respond with Sodium and Hydrogen' date but NaH

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[clubbadubba]

why should you never trust an atom?

Spoiler

Because they make up everything

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

why should you never trust an atom?

Spoiler

Because they make up everything

I was going to ask if you got any sodium hypobromite

Spoiler

But I guessed you were going to say NaBrO.

Why do you think chemists call helium, curium and barium the medical elements?

Spoiler

Because if you can't helium or curium, you barium!

What do you call a chemistry joke that is based on cobalt, radon, and yttrium?

Spoiler

CoRnY.

 

[ballin4life]

Why was six afraid of seven?

Spoiler

Numbers are not sentient and are incapable of thought