Jigglytuff Move Suggestion Thread

[Captain Keeta]

You should be able to jump out of rollout with like no lag, but that might be too OP. Anyway, rollout should be able to be canceled somehow. Also, I agree with the brawl fair thing.

 

[BertEast]

Sped up downsmash would be cool

 

[SleepyTRex]

Posted this in the Character Idea Submission thread and figured I'd post it here too to get the opinions of Jigglypuff mains.

This is coming from somebody who does not like how Jigglypuff has been handled in Smash, and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. Whatever. I'm not posting this to piss off the Jigglypuff mains; I would just like to put my opinion/ideas out there.

Regardless of her effectiveness in Melee, I personally do not think anybody should look at Melee Jigglypuff as an example of good design. She has a boring, uninspired, limited moveset that boxes her into certain roles and leaves little room for creativity. Many of her bad moves could be improved while certain other moves (looking at you, B-air) could be de-emphasized a bit. Her specials especially could use some work in order to make her a more interesting and varied character. I know we're already at version 2.6, and I know many people believe Melee top tiers shouldn't be changed, but I feel like it's never too late to make a better character.

Here are some ideas that I would love to see balanced and worked into her moveset:

Slightly faster running speed.

F-tilt - Very quick. More range (foot stretches out more like Bair).

D-tilt - Very quick. Less damage. Sends them into the air for comboing.

B-air - reduce the size of the disjoint. Still functions as a great WoP move. If it wasn't for "bcuz Melee", the PMBR would not have given this move its current properties. Regardless of how vital the move currently is, the huge disjoint simply does not make sense. She will have to make up for this loss in other areas, which is actually a positive thing imo. Depending so much on one move that doesn''t even make sense visually is proof that she is poorly designed.

Fair - Pound (this move is not interesting enough to be a special move.) Quicker. Her main way to continue combos in the air.

F-Smash - Hyper Voice. Terrific horizontal range. Fairly slow startup. Gets weaker the farther away the opponent is.

D-Smash - Much less cooldown.

Neutral B - Sing (this is her most iconic move and worthy of being her main B move). Significantly more range. Increase sleep time so that no matter the percent, they will never wake up early enough to punish her before she's even done singing.

Forward B - Rollout. No longer sends her into freefall. She can combo out of it at low percents. Kills at higher percents.

Down B - Rest (as-is, this move is conceptually dumb and strays too far from canon for my liking) Sends them straight up for a Star KO like in Brawl (no flower). Gradually heals 20%.

Up B - Fairy Wind.
Jigglypuff is now officially a Fairy-type and it would be cool if this was acknowledged by P:M. This would (finally!) function as a true recovery move. She twirls upwards surrounded by a sparkling wind, similar to Wario's corkscrew.

I like this a lot, she deserves a ground game that can lead to combos, i love the down tilt idea it would work so well. Also I like her Fsmash maybe her dsmash should be the one to get more range

 

[BertEast]

Posted this in the Character Idea Submission thread and figured I'd post it here too to get the opinions of Jigglypuff mains.

This is coming from somebody who does not like how Jigglypuff has been handled in Smash, and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. Whatever. I'm not posting this to piss off the Jigglypuff mains; I would just like to put my opinion/ideas out there.

Regardless of her effectiveness in Melee, I personally do not think anybody should look at Melee Jigglypuff as an example of good design. She has a boring, uninspired, limited moveset that boxes her into certain roles and leaves little room for creativity. Many of her bad moves could be improved while certain other moves (looking at you, B-air) could be de-emphasized a bit. Her specials especially could use some work in order to make her a more interesting and varied character. I know we're already at version 2.6, and I know many people believe Melee top tiers shouldn't be changed, but I feel like it's never too late to make a better character.

Here are some ideas that I would love to see balanced and worked into her moveset:

Slightly faster running speed.

F-tilt - Very quick. More range (foot stretches out more like Bair).

D-tilt - Very quick. Less damage. Sends them into the air for comboing.

B-air - reduce the size of the disjoint. Still functions as a great WoP move. If it wasn't for "bcuz Melee", the PMBR would not have given this move its current properties. Regardless of how vital the move currently is, the huge disjoint simply does not make sense. She will have to make up for this loss in other areas, which is actually a positive thing imo. Depending so much on one move that doesn''t even make sense visually is proof that she is poorly designed.

Fair - Pound (this move is not interesting enough to be a special move.) Quicker. Her main way to continue combos in the air.

F-Smash - Hyper Voice. Terrific horizontal range. Fairly slow startup. Gets weaker the farther away the opponent is.

D-Smash - Much less cooldown.

Neutral B - Sing (this is her most iconic move and worthy of being her main B move). Significantly more range. Increase sleep time so that no matter the percent, they will never wake up early enough to punish her before she's even done singing.

Forward B - Rollout. No longer sends her into freefall. She can combo out of it at low percents. Kills at higher percents.

Down B - Rest (as-is, this move is conceptually dumb and strays too far from canon for my liking) Sends them straight up for a Star KO like in Brawl (no flower). Gradually heals 20%.

Up B - Fairy Wind.
Jigglypuff is now officially a Fairy-type and it would be cool if this was acknowledged by P:M. This would (finally!) function as a true recovery move. She twirls upwards surrounded by a sparkling wind, similar to Wario's corkscrew.

I think Jiggs needs some new tools, but I don't think she needs a complete rework. I agree with your downsmash idea, as well as your f-tilt idea.

 

[BertEast]

Does anyone know who on the PMBR team developed Jiggs?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Most of the suggestions for Jigglypuff are rather silly, but these suggestions are pretty nice.

I don't think that Jigglypuff needs any seriously radical changes, such as giving her a projectile or a jump-canceled Rollout. And while it would make sense in a Pokemon game, I don't think that Rest (or Sing for that matter) should heal Jigglypuff. Instead, minor tweaks to her currently existing moveset would be much more favorable as opposed to these highly debatable changes.


My suggestions for Jigglypuff would be as follows:

1) Jigglypuff's Forward Tilt would knock opponents vertically into the air, in a similar manner that Yoshi's Forward Tilt works. This would allow for more opportunities to land a Rest, as well as serving as a combo-starter for aerial combos.

2) Down Tilt in it's current state is rather useless, though Forward Tilt is not. If the above change to Forward Tilt is implemented, Forward Tilt's knockback should be transferred over and replace Down Tilt's current knockback. This would effectively give her more range on a decent knockback move, and allow her to more easily set up for gimps after a successful Down Tilt.

3) The Sing change that DrinkingFood suggested (The one I quoted, anyways).


The problem with Jiggypuff's Forward and Down Tilt is that they are too similar currently (specifically knockback), though they both share problems. Down Tilt doesn't have enough knockback to be too useful despite having range, and Forward Tilt doesn't have range despite having some knockback. If you combine both of the positive elements and give them to Jigglypuff's Down Tilt, and change her Forward Tilt to function in a similar manner to Yoshi's Forward Tilt, I feel as though her ground game would be much more effective...without having to resort to drastic changes. Granted, her ground game doesn't need to be the BEST (it would still have very poor range), but that is a fundamental aspect of the character anyways. It is part of what makes her unique, and I don't think that part of her should change. But it can always certainly be made better despite my stance on that.

^My suggestions from another topic.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

My ideas are as follows:

I agree with pound being a Fair and Rollout should definitely be sideB

However I believe they should keep sing as upB as jiggs already has an amazing recovery. Pound, Rollout, Airdodge, and all her multijumps,

However, if PMBR really wants to make jiggs better with her recovery, maybe pressing down immediately after sign can make her point downwards and sign downwards. DownSing would have about 2 or 3 times the range the basic sing does at the cost of only being pointed downwards. This would put opponents asleep and act as a footstool. A bit powerful if you ask me, but maybe they wake up when they hit the ground from this.

However, the main effect of downSing is it increases her upward velocity, allowing her to cancel a jump with downSing for a higher jump. Finally, downSing does not put jiggs helpless after used but can only be used once while in the air. This will give jiggs a good way to kill downwards, increase the height of midair jumps and a better combo tool as well.

Then, maybe rollout can be jumped out of, given a little less range and startup time and remove it's helplessness. Also, maybe jiggs would bounce at a slight angle if it hits an opponent or projectile while canceling both it's and it's opponent's damage if it first collided with a hitbox. This makes it better for recovering, midair chases and defensive options, but it's angle would still make pound better for horizontal recovery. However, a jump cancelled rollout into downSing could be an interesting recovery tool.

Finally, bring back the teleport glitch for better rushdown.

If all these were added jiggs would become a spacing and rushdown powerhouse and will finally be able to meet with the high demands of P:M

As for what would be neutral B, I really don't know

 

[GeZ]

But that's not Jigglypuff anymore. Why not figure out how to improve the character, rather than overhaul.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

But that's not Jigglypuff anymore. Why not figure out how to improve the character, rather than overhaul.

It was just an idea, I was hoping it'd keep with the basic jiggs but give him a bit better gameplay but I can see how my idea can be seen as not really in line with what jiggs is.

Looking back on it' a downSign really feels like something from a cheap fan game. Oh well.

 

[Captain Keeta]

I know it's not really a move, but an increase in shield size wouldn't hurt. Increasing the range (or power) on the up smash would be helpful. And something definitely needs to be done about the forward tilt or down tilt. I think the special moves are fine. If we're feeling real ballsy, we could change the dair's meteor smash properties. We could make it more like a normal meteor smash, sort of like what kirby has.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I liked what SmasFromThePast and ItsRainingGravy had to say. My beef with her overall is that her ground game is just so slow and she has 0 ways to handle long ranged characters. I hate how useless her current sing is, but if it got powered up it would be unfair so I understand why leaving that alone is for the best. The main thing I liked was the Hyper Voice and Fairy Wind idea. Two very Jiggly-friendly moves that bolster her normal and fairy typing, along with her super powered voice.

Hyper Voice could be altered so you still have to play like classic Jiggles. It would tickle opponents enough to bait them from afar, but can't be used to KO unless they are close by.

The Fairy Wind thing could be tweaked a bit. I always think it's ridiculous how helpless she is on the ground. She can be wrecked by any above head attacks with ease. So making it work like Squirtle's Hydropump would be nice. It would directly cover her entire upper part but not protect her sides. She could also use such an attack to launch enemies so she can get them in the air easily. So if anything it'd be a big compliment to her playstyle of aerial beatdowns. When used off stage it could move her upwards a tiny bit so it can be a "pretend recovery" like how the Ice Climbers work after losing the other half.

It's not a gameplay changer or overhaul, but it is a change and a gameplay compliment/helper. The rest of the P:M characters can tell or show you that change is good. It doesn't have to be this exactly, but it should be something.

 

[Touching_Everything]

I would like if Up special would be much larger and rest would not be able used in that sleep state. And Pound would be wake up slap.
http://pokemondb.net/move/wake-up-slap

 

[internetmovieguy]

fun suggestions:
1) Have sing put people to sleep in the air, even off stage. OR
2) Have sing be chargeable for increased range.
3) Replace sing with defense curl: Super armor for a few frames (like vbrawl olmar's down b)
sing could be moved to a taunt

Practical suggestions:
Nazo's suggestion to make sing land cancel-able.
clean up ftilt to be more useful (not that we'll use it much)

 

[ZombieBran]

Jigglypuff does need intensive help. Much of her power in Melee came from the fact that many characters were just awful at playing her game (and, in most cases, the game itself) and could be completely destroyed with proper spacing.

Obviously, this is no longer true in PM for the most part. Jiggs' flaws really shine when the cast has all around much better recovery, reach, safety, combo ability, projectiles, and kill potential.

Oh, the projectiles. You thought campy Young Link was bad? ****ing HA

 

[BertEast]

Another tool she had was her ability to crouch under a few of the top tier melee characters. She can still do that, but if she could crouch some more new grabs, that could help. Also you can't crouch-rest sheik's grab anymore.

 

[Bazzeltroff]

I haven't read through the thread or seen what others have posted, so sorry if someone already posted this idea.

I feel like one of Jigglypuffs main problems is her useless Up B... What is the point of it? Yeah, that's what everyone jumps to. How terrible her Up B is. But maybe there is a way to change it instead of just removing it. Keep the basic concept, just tweak it a bit. How about instead of being forced to sit in the song for what is it? 2 minutes? We can hold Up B, and for as long as it is held, she sings. Making it an interesting combo. Why not do this? Snake already has an ability that allows him to put someone to sleep, FROM A RANGE. Mewtwo can do it as well if used at the right time. Maybe Jigglypuff can do the same. The main issue I can see with it however is if Jiggz does put someone to sleep, it makes her Down B much easier to hit :/

EDIT: I also feel Rollout should be recoverable... Much like Brawl.

 

[Fortress]

I have never really touched or examined Jigglypuff that closely, and I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, but to support those who may have already suggested these:

• F-tilt active sooner, with a longer hitbox
• D-silt that lifts opponents up-and-above Jigglypuff
• Stronger Jab1 Jab2 in terms of damage
• Jump-cancellable Rollout with a weaker hit but a much faster charge, allowing for Ike-like QD approaches
• More damaging D-throw

 

[GeZ]

I haven't read through the thread or seen what others have posted, so sorry if someone already posted this idea.

I feel like one of Jigglypuffs main problems is her useless Up B... What is the point of it? Yeah, that's what everyone jumps to. How terrible her Up B is. But maybe there is a way to change it instead of just removing it. Keep the basic concept, just tweak it a bit. How about instead of being forced to sit in the song for what is it? 2 minutes? We can hold Up B, and for as long as it is held, she sings. Making it an interesting combo. Why not do this? Snake already has an ability that allows him to put someone to sleep, FROM A RANGE. Mewtwo can do it as well if used at the right time. Maybe Jigglypuff can do the same. The main issue I can see with it however is if Jiggz does put someone to sleep, it makes her Down B much easier to hit :/

EDIT: I also feel Rollout should be recoverable... Much like Brawl.

This idea was implemented and tested in the beta build of 3.0

It was too good.

Sorry dawg.

 

[Bazzeltroff]

This idea was implemented and tested in the beta build of 3.0

It was too good.

Sorry dawg.

Shucks! Yeah, it seemed like it would be a little too strong... Still think it is cool that they at least tried it though :o

 

[MaPow]

Another tool she had was her ability to crouch under a few of the top tier melee characters. She can still do that, but if she could crouch some more new grabs, that could help. Also you can't crouch-rest sheik's grab anymore.

you totally can my dude.

but i personally think that they should make puffs dtilt faster or stronger or something so it can be used as a grounded spacing tool as well as stuff some recoveries (much like marth's dtilt).

 

[SnazzyPierre]

I've played Jiggs for a bit and watched enough videos of her to understand the basics of Jiggs, and I've grown to respect her more then I did a few days ago. I really feel all of her moves have a purpose at the time, but she needs more options and originality that she has. So, without further wasting of time, here's a bunch of changes that aren't TOO huge, but also make her game MUCH more varied and give her more options (I'll be doing the basic attacks first, then specials, to prevent immediate "I don't like your one suggestion out of 10 so the rest of them must stink):



Jab:

CHANGE THIS FRIKKING MOVE. Make it Double-Slap. You know how Pound makes her fist grow for like 3 frames during? Do this, give it less horizontal range (imagine Pound was stationary and now make the range shorter than that) with that of about her current jab, give it more range around her body, give it a lot more priority, and make it send the foe up at an angle to begin combos. You could really make it send the foe at any angle you want so long as it has more priority , more range, more KB than it currently has, and more hit stun as well. As far as I know, Puff can't get jab resets hardly ever, so she doesn't need a regular jab.

F-tilt:
This move, surprisingly, is actually much better people like to admit: This move, from what I've seen, is SAFE on shield if spaced. This means you can arbitrarily throw out a move at the right range and the foe can only try to out prioritize it. F-tilt, IMO, as one guy already said, just needs more range like her B-air. It just makes sense given they're both spinning foot moves.

D-tilt:
This move, if you increase the range of F-tilt, should have equal or slightly more range than F-tilt, and be a better combo starter, with a KB /angle/ (not the actual amount) of G&W's D-tilt sweet spot.

U-tilt:
Give just a BIT more range behind her, acting as a better scoop move. What you could do to make this not broken against spacies when upgraded is have the further back hitboxes send the opponent forward pretty far infront of you with a fixed KB so you can't always combo U-tilt into Rest unless you get the hitbox in the spots you've been having to hit with at the current time.

D-smash:
MORE RANGE. That's all you need to do. Just give it more range on the sides and maybe come out a little bit faster and this move will be perfect.

U-smash:
Make it more scoopy, like U-tilt. This move could use more range behind her, above her, and maybe just an ITSY BIT in front of her. This move could have a relatively large base KB and grow very slowly, making it a good combo starter at higher percents and a good move to start a tech chase. I do NOT think this move should be utilized (without being charged) as a kill move: I think that Jigg's kills should be entirely based upon her aerials, F-Smash and D-Smash, Rollout (I'll get to that later), and Rest.
I guess the main difference between this move and U-tilt would be cooldown on the moves. You could make the difference larger by giving this move even more range than suggested before but making it have less priority than U-tilt (not giving U-tilt much more, because that would make spacies much more worthless against her).

F-smash:
Here's where the cool stuff starts! I think this move should dash forward a LOT more than it does now. Like, Wolf F-Smash distances but being more slidy and going that distances slower and more gradually than Wolf. And make her leg angled upwards more than it does now (maybe at the angle of Kirby's up angled F-smash). This would single handedly give Jiggs a GREAT on ground options without making her too beastly.

D-air:
This move, while pretty good, doesn't exactly combo well. I think at higher percents, beginning at 50-80% on Mario, if it would pop the foe up in the air with the final hit, then it would be a good aerial approach mix-up with her F-air and D-air.

N-air:
Keep this move mostly the same, BUT RATHER THAN A STUPID WIMPY LASTING KICK, make Jigglypuff PUFF out like on her F-throw on from her appearances in the TV show when she gets angry and puffs out. (Make her make the angry face! We need Smash Jiggs to make the angry face.) Make the puff-out happen quickly and have the first hitbox disappear quickly like it does with her current N-air. I know what you're thinking: "This isn't a lasting aerial anymore!" Yes it is! When she puffs out, if you hold A, make her stay puffed out as a lasting hitbox with the same KB stats that her current lasting hit N-air has until you let go of A. And maybe maker the first hitbox an up-diagonal hit to start combos, but since it has not that much range, you kinda have to get close and risk getting hit for it to work. I DON"T think this move should have very high priority, which would making it a viable "get off of my butt" move, as she already can't get comboed but hardly at all.

I would suggest something for U-air, but I feel spacies already get eaten by her enough, so I won't say anything about U-air.

F-special Pound:
You know how you can move backwards with Moonwalking? Make it so Pound in the air can move forward, maybe stay still, and weave back with her F-special by either doing a Moonwalk semi-circle motion or but just pressing in the desired direction (the more usable of the two, as semi circles would limit her to only moving backwards in one pre-programmed direction and at variable lengths, which is cool, but being able to move back and up/down with Pound in one length would be cool too; you could also make it so that the longer you should back makes her go further back; you could also allow staying still if you don't hit the control stick after you started it). With this being added, having more range behind her and above her when you go backwards with it would make it still usable as an odd mix-up.

I think it'd be a lot greater if it had more shield damage and/or more shield stun, so it's actually usable.

Having it move forward a LOT when on the ground would be a cool thing. It could have her stay still in the heatup of the move before the hitbox comes out, and have her dash forward quickly on the ground with the hitbox out.

If not Rollout, this move could snap to the edge as well. Jiggs will die not from gimping, but from being hit into the blast zone by a move. Seriously, gimping Jiggs with a non-kill/non-spike/meteormash move is almost impossible, so having her be able to snap the ledge at some point (maybe at the very beginning or at the very end, or some point in the middle to make her more vulnerable) in Pound would be a good way of making her just an ITSY bit less vulnerable when off stage at lower heights.

U-special Sing:
Before anything else: Make her sing into her marker microphone like in the anime. Please.

Make this move better, just gosh dangit, make it better. It doesn't have to be great, but make it better. If it came out faster, had a bit more range, maybe cause tumble on aerial foes not doing any specific actions (if you did this, then make it so it doesn't have that much range below her to prevent being broken on recovering foes), made the amount of sleep time correspond to the #ed pulse you're hit with (if it's the first note pulse, make them sleep long enough to hit them afterwards, but only at higher percents so you can't just Sing then Rest 0% foes), and hit through shields/do a lot of shield damage would make her actually be able to use it. And ledge cancels.

N-special and D-special (their changes are connected, but don't worry, I don't actually touch Rest hardly at all) Rollout and Rest:

With Rollout, I'm gonna be all over the place with the details I'm suggesting, so please bare with me, as there's a LOT that could be done with it, and none of them are specifically better than any other. Also keep in mind you can do any combination of any of the details, not just the ones I've grouped together.

It could be a freakin' progressive kill move like in the anime and games, but in a slightly different way: make it increase in power (from an okay standard KB and progressing slowly up for each hit) for each time you successfully land it, but you don't have to use it in a row for it to increase, you just can't miss with it--also have it carry over from stocks. You could alternatively make it grow in damage percentage and not become a kill move instead.

Make Rollout have a hitbox and move at a moderate speed without all of this wonky bullcrap currently surrounding the move with NO charge. I'm thinking removing the charge completely would be best. Just make you move faster, do more damage, have more KB, and have low and possibly slowly increasing priority so you still have to WORK to get in hits, but it's worth it if you do. You just press B, and you have a moving hitbox with the first one having weak (maybe even giving each hit their own static KB, not growing or shrinking for the foe's damage).

You know how she pops up when hitting with Rollout? Keep that, but make the time she spins in the air being useless a LOT less, and have her be able to move forward or backward when she pops up. This makes it so you actually get a reward for using it the first time (and the other times afterwards). As the KB from Rollout increases for each time you hit with it (remember, using other moves doesn't remove it, nor does dying, only missing does), make it so that it stops being a combo starter, meaning that you do sacrifice a good tool if you want to continue to get it to become a kill move.

I'm not sure if it should count it hits shields or not, or even if she should just pass through shields.

I'm also thinking that having her use it in the air and still go into special fall would be good, but have it be able to snap the ledge. Make it so that using it in the air goes down at that dangerous 45 degree angle, and if you land with it you experience more cooldown than if you started it on the ground, giving you more chance to hit since you're using it where you're strongest (the air), but giving her more risk if you miss (but giving you back your combo starting tool, too).

Maybe missing should only remove one or two stages of Rollout.

Again, there's a LOT of possibilities iwth this move. A LOT. It definitely needs to be experimented with.

Rest shouldn't change, except maybe healing 5% if you manage to use Rest's invinc. frames as a hitbox is touching you, but I DO think that it should have a dual use: Hold B to make it into Defense Curl. Make Defense Curl NOT ledge cancelable, make sure it has plenty of lag after use, make it VERY slightly increase her KB resistance/weight (Are they the same thing?) but NOT her gravity every time you use it up until 6 stages of increase, and maybe make it increase the power of Rollout (like in the games) if you use Rollout within a 5-20 seconds of using Defense Curl. There's a lot of application from this: heavy/super armor during parts of Defense Curl and canceling itself if the opponent hits you during it, making your shield stronger, only making you heavier for a minute but make it so you only have to use it once to get a good defense buff, etc.

Other moves that could be used:
Hyper Voice
Sweet Kiss
Attract
Basically anything voice, wind, love, or slap related would work. Heck, maybe make Pound work like Wake-up Slap and do a lot of damage if you use it on a sleeping foe! Maybe even give her Snore or Sleep Talk during Rest (I would not suggest this, but it is certainly a possibility). Jiggs has a lot of potential that you guys can easily implement without damaging her basic play.

COSTUMES:
Give her back her Ribbon.
Maker her Flower costume a Flower from a 1st gen (her gen) Pokemon or a 6th gen (a modern gen) Pokemon, like Vileplume or Lilligant.

HEADBAND. My gosh. I had a genius idea for the return of her headband costume. I remember a long time ago when I was new to the internet, I saw this cool picture of Jigglypuff looking like Rambo with suit, scuff marks, a bazooka, and the works, being captioned "Da' Puff." Give Jigglypuff a headband (possibly camo), cover her in scuff marks, maybe put a bandaid on her cheek, make there a little bit of suit of her body, and make Rest not do FIRE, but do an EXPLOSION! I don't think there's ever been a better custom costume suggestion before.

 

[210stuna]

Too Long; Didn't Read

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

I don't want Jiggs to change too much (preferably not at all, really), but a lot of characters have way too good a recovery nowadays. Since there seems to be no intent to fix this, she's going to need at least a few buffs. She seems to rank pretty low on any tier list I've seen so far, and I can't say I disagree, sadly.

I think first of all she needs her old forward throw back (I believe this is being worked on?) and up throw should not be as DI-able, giving her her near-equal matchup against the spacies back. But that won't be enough to deal with the better edge game of a lot of the new characters. What Jiggs needs is something to keep them not just away from the edge but below the edge, even just a little. Since they've changed her dair already, why not go all the way and change it into something akin to her SSB64 dair, with a weak spike as the final hit? Oh, sure, giving Jiggs a spike might seem like the most broken thing in the world, but this isn't Melee anymore, recoveries are way better and Jiggs isn't the queen of the air she once was. Also, make it combo into Rest like in Brawl, that'd be hilarious.

Also, SnazzyPierre, you're funny. I do agree with you on one thing, though: Puff needs her ribbon back.

 

[210stuna]

up throw should not be as DI-able, giving her her near-equal matchup against the spacies back.

lolwat

The match up is actually better on her part since all the animals have had is minor, miniscule nerfs and Jiggs has had minor, miniscule buffs

 

[Coonce]

I like the idea of giving dair a minor spike. Should help Jiggs edge guard against better recoveries like Ivysaur. I can't see an offstage Ivysaur wanting to challenge your dair with an uair.

I also like some of the suggestions for rollout, although I'm surprised no one suggested this (unless I missed it):

Jiggs has a problem with a lot of projectiles. How about giving her rollout some minor super armor that mainly just negates projectile knockback? Tack on the ability to jump out of rollout as many have suggested, and Jiggs has a new way to (relatively) safely approach/punish projectile spammers. Perhaps only give rollout the super armor once she's released B. The most analogous thing to this change is Squirtle's withdraw, which isn't perfect but it sure does help close the gap against projectile spammers.

I feel what will overpower Jiggs the most is extra rest opportunities, but these few changes to rollout shouldn't really do that. Although being able to jump out of rollout any time could be a bit much. Maybe just let her jump out of it when she just taps B, is still holding B, when she's in a helpless free fall, and when she's in helpless free fall after hitting someone.

 

[Nazo]

Going to throw out a few Ideas I've conjured up.

Jab:
Jab should probably be given more range and with a visual cue similar to Kirby's milti-hit jab, but with like fairy graphics. (not implying she should have a multi-jab)

Dair:
Making the last hit of Dair a weak meteor would benefit much. The user would be rewarded for following the opponent's SDI while Dairing them. Makes for amazing set-ups and wouldn't be over-bearing for the character.

Dtilt & Ftilt:
Dtilt could really use quicker start-up and a bit less cool-down. Ftilt would benefit from a disjoint similar to Bair.

Sing:
I was actually joking when I said it should be land-cancellable, but if everyone seems to like the Idea then I won't argue lol.

Roll-out:
Giving Jiggs the ability to attack out of the "bounce" on Roll-out's hit confirm would make a good pressure and mix-up tool. The bounce should also activate on shield hit confirm to allow for more cross-ups. I find this idea to be a little more reasonable than giving her the ability to jump-cancel roll-out, which is a bit extreme.

I feel as though these changes would help Jigglypuff maintain the same metagame while introducing new tools to better combat the rest of the cast without being overhauled or underdeveloped.

 

[Phan7om]

Sing:
Just make the sleep "hitbox" faster, thats all

Rollout:
I like Nazo's idea of being able to attack out of the bounce. But if they dont do that, they should at least make it so a hitbox comes out when you tap B. Other charge moves like Marth/Roy/Ike has this. You shouldnt have to hold B down a whole second or so before it comes out imo. It can be a weak hitbox, just let it have a hitbox.

F-air:
Longer hitbox thoughout making it a good sex kick for example, Fox's nair. Maybe give it a light "effect" ,similar to TLs dtilt, when sweetspotted

Thats all, imo she should be more of an aerial character than a grounded one, so keeping her crappy tilts and stuff fit Puff. Like the reverse of Little Mac.

 

[SoulPech]

I realistically feel she doesn't need to be changed. She already has a death button and her aerial mobility is great. She also has a great bait or hit-and-run game. her ground game shouldn't be good since she's much faster in the air. I did state earlier in the thread she could use changes, but those were ideally...not realistically.

Ideally (and I did change my opinion), I feel it would be cool to see her D-air pop up on heavier characters (to combo into usmash) or make her DACUS longer. For Usmash, either lower usmash cd or if she hits the opponents shield she would be pushed farther away.

I just feel she is almost balanced though. I'm just waiting for the game to get more balanced, which will cause her to shine.

 

[Sourpatch]

What's up everyone I've never posted on here before but I've played brawl for a few years and have been playing project m since April and last month started entering in tournaments or just going for friendlies for the experience.

Jigglypuff being one of my favorite characters to play I see why people don't like her in project m. I think if we could l-cancel sing she become so much more of a threat. For example, there have a couple times mainly against characters like wolf or DDD where at the ledge I use sing to mess up the recovery if I know there going to hit me which leads to them either dying or hilariously falling asleep and free falling into the blast zone while I quickly recover back to the ledge. This hardly ever works but is so funny and op when It does. So Imagine if we could sing cancel. Her neutral game would be crazy and her ledge game would be almost unfair

 

[BertEast]

What's up everyone I've never posted on here before but I've played brawl for a few years and have been playing project m since April and last month started entering in tournaments or just going for friendlies for the experience.

Jigglypuff being one of my favorite characters to play I see why people don't like her in project m. I think if we could l-cancel sing she become so much more of a threat. For example, there have a couple times mainly against characters like wolf or DDD where at the ledge I use sing to mess up the recovery if I know there going to hit me which leads to them either dying or hilariously falling asleep and free falling into the blast zone while I quickly recover back to the ledge. This hardly ever works but is so funny and op when It does. So Imagine if we could sing cancel. Her neutral game would be crazy and her ledge game would be almost unfair

Sing only works on if they're grounded. This has been suggested, but honestly it wouldn't really help her. Her neutral game would practically stay the same and her ledge game wouldn't really change either.

 

[OddCrow]

Make it so Jiggs Up-B has twice the range and slows aerial opponents.

 

[0RLY]

Put strong windboxes on her deflating taunt.

That is all.

 

[leekslap]

PMBR, do what you did with Ganon: meld in Brawl and 64 stuff and improve what she already had.

What I mean by Brawl and 64 stuff:
- fair thunder sweetspot
- Rollout does not make you vulnerable in the air after the moves ends
- add a very small Brawl Rest hitbox around the melee hitbox ala Zelda bair
- weak dair spike on last frame of hitboxes

The improvements:
- Rollout has armor for projectiles
- give her meatier hitboxes, maybe by adding fairy dust
- slightly improve her ground game but not to a point where Resting becomes really easy, just slightly easier
- Sing overhaul:
-Sing is now a projectile similar to Yoshi's up b and Ivysaur's side b where the musical notes are the projectiles
- you can angle the musical notes fairly well but they don't have very good range and are a bit bouncy like Mario Fireballs
- it can have 3 notes at a time but you need press b at the right rhythm and you sing 2 in a short hop
- aerial up b is similar to Pit's up b except it's slower and weaker

Jigglypuff doesn't need a massive overhaul. She just needs better and more tools to work with. The recovery nerf is also definetly gonna help her too.

 

[Daftatt]

If puff is going to be good in 3.5 the PMDT needs to add a smash taunt that has the SFX from her japanese melee taunt, it's so cute your opponent loses stage control.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

I don't typically post over here, but man Jigglypuff is like bottom 2 in this game (her or Ice Climbers.)

I really like a lot of these changes, especially being able to act out of rollout hit. I honestly think if she could do that and expand the usefulness of sing (like just being able to threaten landing with it or just making it unblock able completely with the same animation/hitbox) she would sky-rocket in usability.

As a Zard main, Jigg's feels like a 7-3 matchup in my favor as she is so terrible at just getting around basic RAR Nair pressure that doesn't work on a lot of other characters. Being able to slip in sings (and thus yield more rests) would force me to take more risks and be threatened by her movement.

 

[BertEast]

I think with the recovery changes coming in, we really don't need anymore updates to her move. Perhaps she'll just be back to how she was in Melee, an unstoppable force!

 

[IhaveSonar]

3.5's changes to recoveries in general will be a massive buff to her, so I would argue that she doesn't need changes; she has strengths in extreme mobility and punishes and a weakness in being a tiny puffball who goes flying.

If she's still not great after 3.5, however, I'd say make her dtilt and dsmash faster and have dtilt send upward for combos. Also, moving some range/speed from bair to fair could allow for a reason to use fair over bair.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

Make sing not take an hour to finish so she can do something before the opponent wakes up at lower percents.

 

[StatusC]

Give sing a larger radius, make it single burst, and give it abstract properties. Abstract properties within the radius suggestions: Impossible to Tech; Impossible to L-Cancel; temporarily give the recovering enemy a smaller ledge-magnet. If timed correctly, this new sing could mean the difference between life and death for the opponent.

 

[Muzga]

perhaps you could reduce the time opponents fall asleep for and add an attack which cancels sing and gives some upwards momentum. Make it so sing is instantly cancellable but only with the followup.Like diddys side-b only the second part is what adds slight upwards momentum.Maybe like a sing/wake-up slap combination.