Jigglypuff?

[greenblob]

Well, I started playing SSB online a week or two ago.
...and I'm getting pwned.

I main as Jigglypuff. From my matches, it appears that although I can get my rest accuracy up a bit more, my rest combos are OK. What appears to be going wrong is everything else. I've looked around for vids and all I see are a bunch of people 4-stocking Jiggs, which is no good when I'm trying to learn how to use him (her?). So, I have a few questions.

Does WoP exist in 64? Either it doesn't or my timing is waaay off. Whenever my Fairs/Bairs collide with the opponent's attack, I always lose out for some reason. One of my main strategies against the comps was to "push" the opponent to the side by spamming Fair and Bair. It doesn't work online.
Z-canceling--from what I'm seeing in my matches and especially training mode, Z-canceling appears to have no effect. Is that true or am I doing something wrong? Or maybe it's because there's very little effect?
Should I stay on the ground or fight in the air?
Dash-dancing--it really seems awkward and I can't really get quick turns. Maybe it's the keyboard?
Does using a controller affect gameplay that much? I'm thinking about getting one.

Any other tips on using Jiggs would be helpful too.

Oh, yes, I forgot one thing--tilt moves, especially Utilt. I keep messing them up. Whenever I try to Utilt, I end up doing an Usmash or a Uair. Is this another keyboard problem or is there a special trick to it?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Many many players start playing online and realize that their playstyle fails a lot-- its because they practice on computers. Computers rarely "tech", rarely "z-cancel" and rarely "stall" (wait until you attack so they can hit you during your downtime). Players do it all the time.

A controller allows you to z-cancel and "short hop" with much more ease, however, I find that the keyboard is faster for me, a controller has never been as fast as my mind. Your choice.

One combo that works on most players, but it gets predictable, is to short-hop dair z-cancel and then start uptilting the moment you hit the ground-- it juggles your opponent for more damage, and then allows you to set up a Rest combo or a Nair or even another Dair combo.

Fight in the air. Jiggly is too slow and her moves have bad priority and duration on the ground. When you are on the ground, try to throw.

Learn to use her Nair well. Her Nair doesn't have too much priority or throwback, but its duration is much longer than people anticipate and it often ends up hitting opponents. This is also true for Pikachu and CF.

The best jigglies I've seen online all short-hop, and often, there are a few iXi guys who smash with her well. I suggest getting a controller because short-hopping on a keyboard requires entirely too much practice. Also, you can't short-hop if your key for "jump" is set on "Up"-- you have to bind your "jump" key to a "c button."

You might also want to try looking at kirby-- good jigglypuff players can't help but be good kirby ones. And among advanced players, kirby is not "cheap", because you'll see that they rarely smash his Fsmash. They use the same combos like jigglypuff-- short hop / Dair / Uptilt juggle / (Nair, another Dair, or an Upsmash, etc etc etc)

 

[rokimomi]

Yes, im playing jiggs online, and I agree that KB is faster but also, I can only SH by actually taking my hand ALL the way to a different button and slowing down my game. There are a few unescapable combos I have gotten away with. Like, Contintuous drill kicks (wich work waaaay better by short hopping) into Uptilts and repeat untill they will die by rest. If you miss, Hope they attack you lightly. Or else you'll be in trouble.

Online with KB, gives jiggs a much harder time in airbourne battles. In N64, she can hold her own. But otherwise, the wall of pain is a waste of effort unless done perfectly. Deflect projectiles like link's boomerang with a pound.
That's all I can offer for now. Im usually with falcon pikachu or jiggs.

 

[sh0rtlilr3tard]

no character is cheap. its all on how you use the char because anyone can be good with any char.. isai is the perfect proof for that.

with jigglypuff a nice combo i see is dair zcancel into an up smash or a down smash. WoP works to some degree but its a little bit harder to to in my opinion. jiggs fsmash is nearly equally effective as kirbys so i believe thats a nice attack. repeated uair, jump(float), uair, jump, uair, jump is real nice. and you can sometimes just float and dair them which is always nice. well you're saying how you end up losing out when using your fair or bair against an opponent. work your mind games. maybe jump up and make them think you will bair so they come in to try to attack and then float away and DI back into them and bair after they have attacked. jiggly has nice movements to trick opponents so try to work your fast falls and floats to trick opponents more and you should be fine. it all comes with practice ^^

 

[platinum kirby]

You shouldn't rely on D-air combo stater. It's better to land a killer combo using a normal throw as a starter. Here are two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hugtihMl-EI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTCBRoEw2oA

I'm playing Isai on August 9th, and I'll probably use Jiggly against his C. Falcon >.<

 

[rokimomi]

You shouldn't rely on D-air combo stater. It's better to land a killer combo using a normal throw as a starter. Here are two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hugtihMl-EI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTCBRoEw2oA

I'm playing Isai on August 9th, and I'll probably use Jiggly against his C. Falcon >.<

I agree, the only thing is that, that was against a standing computer. Most characters button mash their way out of it. Dont get me wrong though, I love the combo. But most people I play use mario, luigi, or someone that gets thrown too high for the combo to work.

 

[tutata]

i have a couple of question about terms i dont get, SH, Nair, and also how do people online do the continous drill kick with kirby?

 

[sh0rtlilr3tard]

nair = neutral air; dair = down air, etc
sh = short hop

he did it most likely by dair, z cancel, utilt, dair, z cancel, utilt.... repeat.

 

[M3tr01D]

Nice combos pk


Still can't beat the combos moogle does with jiggs though, he did a killer combo on me with pounds mixed in in a real match Coolest thing I ever saw

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Yes, remember to use Pound-- its an odd move for your opponent to deal with, because it

A. Has high priority
B. A misleadingly large hitbox
C. Doesn't use a jump and moves you slightly forward
D. Works well in combos because it hits your opponent in an upward backwards arch, when at low %s

Also, the Dair continuous isn't hard to pull off, the hardest thing is nowing how high you have to jump after you have z-cancelled and are preparing to jump and dair again. Get an idea of how much you want to jump after z-cancelling by testing different % s on different characters in training. Personally I'm horrible at it so I don't try ^.^

 

[greenblob]

OK, thanks for the tips. Apparantly, I can't use Utilt unless it's while coming down from the air :/. Oh, and can you do a rising Pound in 64?

 

[Moocow007]

Yeah, you can use rising pounds here. And don't use the WoP, it doesn't really work here because Jiggly's legs are so stubby. It can be used to push the opponent a little more off the stage and then you can edge guard. Nair is good for that stuff too because it has pretty good range and priority.

 

[platinum kirby]

*bows down to moogle*

Yeah, I **** need to use my Jiggs like Moogle if I want to stand a chance against Isai...

 

[rokimomi]

Yeah, you can use rising pounds here. And don't use the WoP, it doesn't really work here because Jiggly's legs are so stubby. It can be used to push the opponent a little more off the stage and then you can edge guard. Nair is good for that stuff too because it has pretty good range and priority.

Wait, are you sure about rising pounds? Ive tried but it dosent realy send you up. It just holds your place.

 

[platinum kirby]

Press B and then tap/hold Up/Down immediately after.

 

[Thino]

Wait, are you sure about rising pounds? Ive tried but it dosent realy send you up. It just holds your place.

im not really a Jigg player but i do use rising pounds , not as effective as melee's but it rises

 

[greenblob]

OK, so I've been playing Jiggs for a couple months now and I've gotten much better. However, there seem to be a few problems:
1. After improving much over the summer, I feel as though I'm not improving anymore. I know I can get much better because I still get owned by several people, but it seems like I'm not improving.
2. I'm getting too predictable. Pretty much all of my combos revolve around the dair. Dair>rest, dair>usmash, dair>utilt, dair>utilt>rest, dair>utilt>usmash, dair>utilt>fsmash, dair>utilt>dsmash, dair>grab, grab>dair, you get the picture. This creates huge problems vs. people who spam uair or even those up-b noobs, especially foxes and falcons, who have huge uair ranges, making it so I can't jump out of their range.

So basically, I need more strategies. I can do the dair combos, the aerial spams, the utilt/uair juggles, throw>rest, rising pounds, the string of fsmashes (you'll be surprised how many people can't tech their way out of this one), and the odd mindgame>rest maneuver. These strategies work very well against short-range attackers like Mario and Pikachu, but once I start fighting a projectile spammer or a character with aerials that outrange Jigglypuff's feet *cough*Ness'BigHead*cough*, I'm in trouble. Do I just have to mindgame my way out and how do I do that when aerials are so non-laggy and have high priority and range?
Are there any other ways to KO with Jiggs other than rest, usmash, or edgeguarding?
Oh, and I can't really find a good use for offensive Pounds other than chasing an opponent off the edge and reverse-Pounding.

 

[Nephiros]

First of all...Nair > Fair. Jigglypuff is my secondary character and except for very situational comboing, Fair is usually not a good choice, while Nair has more range and more knockback. With Jigglypuff what you wanna do is to spam as much 0-death combos as you can. So basically learn 'em all (for example, against Pikachu and the like -> Fthrow, uair, dair, utilt, rest works well) then just try to mindgame the other to get your throw and a free kill. But really, because of her short range I find it very hard to beat anyone with good mindgames.

Watchout for the dair spam tho, most experienced players will be able to DI out of it.

Really, from what I've seen so far, after moogle (and maybe Sonny, who doesn't really play anymore) I believe I am the best one with the puff who frequently play with it (lawl). So if you see me online feel free to ask anything or just play some matches with me.

 

[platinum kirby]

- N air is a disjointed hitbox. Pretty much your best air to air option

- D air as a combo starter isn't your best option. Unless you get a good opening, you should always go for the throw. She has a lot of killer combos off a throw.

- SHed downward pound.

- Lots of dash dancing (well not LOTS)

That's it, pretty much. Super Dash every once in a while I guess >_>,,,,Jiggly is about learning her Killer Kombos perfectly. OH! and improve your DI is possible

 

[greenblob]

OK, so I've started incorporating nairs into my game. The problem is that I used to see nair as the "every other character strategy" and I'm having a hard time coming up with good places to use it other than edgeguarding.

Are there any good combos other than the dair combos for high percentages? Throws and utilts send the opponent too far away and the only way I can kill is to dair>rest, dair>usmash, or edgeguard.

How do you DI in this game? I'm mostly looking for ways to DI out of combos such as Falcon's double uair or Luigi's dair>uair.

 

[platinum kirby]

If you want, I can list all the 0%->death combos I know...

 

[greenblob]

Actually I'm more in need of high percentage>death combos if those exist, or more creative ways of connecting a rest or usmash at high percentages than spamming dair.

 

[greenblob]

Sorry for reviving a really, really old thread, but I'd still like some help.
I've gotten much better, but I'm still having lots of trouble against projectile spamming and camping / running away. I also have a very limited approach--I pretty much go with nair/dair or or grabs, which not only gets me pwned by projectiles, but the aerials are easily shieldgrabbed and the grab isn't very hard to avoid.

I also have a (very painfully low-res and laggy) video vs. YBOMB's DK, and I'd like some critique. Oh, and the DI was purely accidental...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2542631272070614136&hl=en

 

[Nephiros]

Didn't watch the vid, too busy. For projectile try to learn your aerials' priority and just punch through them. Pound and dair work well here

 

[Umbrasquall]

How do you do the slide to rest move again? I forgot.

 

[Thino]

If you're talking about the teleport to rest , teleporting is jumping during the turning back animation , it involves half-circle with direction . just rest while doing it.

 

[tutata]

Can you guys post some set combos here? I rember being up tilted a couple of times and then put to sleep.

 

[Thino]

fthrow dair utilt dair utilt dair utilt utilt rest lol . it doesnt works on ppl who DI

 

[Umbrasquall]

If you're talking about the teleport to rest , teleporting is jumping during the turning back animation , it involves half-circle with direction . just rest while doing it.

Okay I can teleport, but I always end up leaving the ground so I don't teleport as far. So to sleep teleport you you dash in one direction, hit the other direction and press jump at the same time, and immediately roll towards down and B after?

 

[greenblob]

You're supposed to leave the ground. The teleport lasts as long as you are in the pre-jump animation.

 

[Umbrasquall]

Yeah I figured. It's a good way to do a surprise n-air or d-air. But I mean how do you do the sleep or sing attacks immediately so you don't actually leave the ground at all and teleport a lot further then usual?

 

[greenblob]

You can only do that with a JC'd sing I think. http://youtube.com/watch?v=4gH4z7gRpLY#GU5U2spHI_4

 

[Umbrasquall]

So to do this you need to turn, DJC, then sing?

 

[Thino]

yea basically.

 

[Moocow007]

no, you just teleport into sing. the up involved in the move registers as the jump allowing the teleport to work without you leaving the ground.

 

[greenblob]

Actually, I teleport with the c buttons (makes it easier for aerials and such), but it's not a DJC.

Anyway, I'd still like some tips and such. I'll try to record a few more videos, or if you've played me online, it'd be great if you give me a few pointers.

 

[Moocow007]

you need to capitalize on how predictable YBOMBB is.

 

[tutata]

Hey when a jigly has u in a sh drill kick ready to sleep, witch way d u di.

 

[Umbrasquall]

no, you just teleport into sing. the up involved in the move registers as the jump allowing the teleport to work without you leaving the ground.

Yeah I pretty much got it. You just need to teleport and sing. He slides ridiculously far.

 

[cmasterchoe]

that's a really blurry video btw, i thought i was goin blind... lol

one real quick point that i don't think other ppl have mentioned yet is to use quick-fall or whatever the term for it is to make you drop faster than normal. it adds an element of surprise and you can vary how you use it to throw off your opponents. jumping and quick falling is definitely effective for floaters like jiggs and kirby because its unnatural movement.

hope it helps