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Jab Locking - In-Depth Research and Discussion - Updated Values

Zapp Branniglenn

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Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn
I would also like to point out that the first hit of sheik's UpTilt has a set knockback. It jab locks even at 999% :]

Edit: I'm making a thread on sheiks jab locks currently, mind if I completely steal your data and credit you?
This is fine. Anybody may use the information in this thread however they see fit. I also don't object to being called upon in character-specific threads for advice or information about jab locks and prattacks.
 
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DisidisiD

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And if you can confirm that hitting a target with shakunetsu without the finisher breaking the lock is possible, then I will add the value. I knew about this for a while, but could never hit a target in a way that doesn't break the jab lock. Ryu has a similar problem with his (strong) Ftilt. The first hit locks, but the second breaks it with a defined angle. I have not found a way for the first hit to exclusively hit the target.
I know the shakenetsu this is possible as I've done it a few times. It is very hard to do as, if you get the finisher hit or more than three hits, it doesn't work. Maybe try one at max speed.

And I didn't notice that about strong ftilt. I'll test and see if I can get only that hit. I think I've done it before on a character like olimar but I'll recheck.

Ok for shaku, you can prattack with a max speed one. That should allow for testing.
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

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1.14 update begins with the changes to existing jab lock moves:

:4myfriends: Fair damage increase: 0/X/0/1 -> 0-X/X/0
:4marth:Fair Damage increase, sour hit: 0-2/3/5 -> 0-0/1/3
Dair Damage increase, non-meteor tipper hit: 0-11/16/20 -> 0-10/14/18
meteor hit: 0-28/36/44 -> 0-25/32/39

:4lucina:
Dair Damage increase, non-meteor tipper hit: 0-8/11/15 -> 0-6/9/12
Meteor hit: 0-31/39/47 -> 0-27/35/42

And the new girls

:4bayonetta:
Bullet extensions at point blank range (fifth shot only) 0-150+/150+/150+
Fsmash (weak 14% hit) 0-X/X/1%
Nair (late 6% hit) 0-0/1/2%
Bair 0-8/12/16%
Neutral B (uncharged) 0-150+/150+/150+

:4corrinf:
Nothing!

Yes, out of all 58 characters in this game, Corrin is the first and only to have no moves with jab locking capabilities. Though if anybody can find her move that jab locks let me know, because I can't.

Seeing as how this may be the last update to Smash 4 (barring the possibility of them fixing Corrin's various bugs), this should likewise be the last patch-related update to the thread. Building and updating information on jab locking has been a joy over the year, and I still hope to see this technique (and its associated prattack technique) come closer to the forefront of Smash 4 competitive in the future. I was hoping the balance team would use the concept of jab locking and forced fall states as a way of delivering utility to moves that have none, but alas, this didn't really happen. The only move I can think of was Luigi's Dtilt. Oh well.
 
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DisidisiD

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1.14 update begins with the changes to existing jab lock moves:

:4myfriends: Fair damage increase: 0/X/0/1 -> 0-X/X/0
:4marth:Fair Damage increase, sour hit: 0-2/3/5 -> 0-0/1/3
Dair Damage increase, non-meteor tipper hit: 0-11/16/20 -> 0-10/14/18
meteor hit: 0-28/36/44 -> 0-25/32/39

:4lucina:
Dair Damage increase, non-meteor tipper hit: 0-8/11/15 -> 0-6/9/12
Meteor hit: 0-31/39/47 -> 0-27/35/42

And the new girls

:4bayonetta:
Bullet extensions at point blank range (fifth shot only) 0-150+/150+/150+
Fsmash (weak 14% hit) 0-X/X/1%
Nair (late 6% hit) 0-0/1/2%
Bair 0-8/12/16%
Neutral B (uncharged) 0-150+/150+/150+

:4corrinf:
Nothing!

Yes, out of all 58 characters in this game, Corrin is the first and only to have no moves with jab locking capabilities. Though if anybody can find her move that jab locks let me know, because I can't.

Seeing as how this may be the last update to Smash 4 (barring the possibility of them fixing Corrin's various bugs), this should likewise be the last patch-related update to the thread. Building and updating information on jab locking has been a joy over the year, and I still hope to see this technique (and its associated prattack technique) come closer to the forefront of Smash 4 competitive in the future. I was hoping the balance team would use the concept of jab locking and forced fall states as a way of delivering utility to moves that have none, but alas, this didn't really happen. The only move I can think of was Luigi's Dtilt. Oh well.
A really stale bair from corrin could possibly lock a shield shulk. Maybe.
 

EpicSonicLatios

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So, I see that fox's Dair can jab lock, and at a really high percent. What hitbox is this, is it an obscure hitbox that doesn't really have any applications? I'm just wondering because at that high of a percent, fox could kill with a gaurunteed usmash.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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So, I see that fox's Dair can jab lock, and at a really high percent. What hitbox is this, is it an obscure hitbox that doesn't really have any applications? I'm just wondering because at that high of a percent, fox could kill with a gaurunteed usmash.
Fox's Dair has a light meteor hitbox from hitting people with his torso area instead of the feet. It's not feasible to use the move to lock somebody on the ground because you can't be under them. Additionally, the landing hit would break the lock anyway. Instead, they would have to be on a platform. Short Hop Dair puts you at the appropriate height.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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One you don't seem to have for Link.
Jab 1, close hit.
Can you tell me who you locked with the move? I've known that hitbox was there, but every character I tried to use it on would get hit by other hitboxes with the wrong angle. With DK, Charizard, and Sonic, I eventually was able to lock somebody just to confirm that it works in some scenarios.
 

Simikins

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Can you tell me who you locked with the move? I've known that hitbox was there, but every character I tried to use it on would get hit by other hitboxes with the wrong angle. With DK, Charizard, and Sonic, I eventually was able to lock somebody just to confirm that it works in some scenarios.
Did it on link at about 30%, using the part of the sword closest to links body.
Victim link was facing away from me, if that affects anything.
 

Simikins

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That'll do it. Another good hitbox I can't seem to land is Robin's jab 1. Same deal as Link, it's the lowest hitbox ID.
:D
Maybe hurtbox size while prone affects it. Some characters are taller on one side than the other, so that may be a factor.
I think just try and find a reliable way to perform it with one of them, get all the variables under control, and then could test with others like robins jab.

Also I've tried many times to get sheiks dash attack to work, but I can never get the right distance for the sourspot. It's just so unreliable.
 

samosa

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Fair hitbox 1 was patched for Samus. It can't lock anymore.
 

Diamond Octobot

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I think you should add :4bayonetta: to the "hard to jab-lock category". I don't know, she is just incredibly hard to lock with Mega Man...
 

Kon

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Looks like I found another jablock with Olimar by accident. Thx to for glory mac <3

at 0:45

It looks like the purple sourspot backhit did jablock. I'll probably test 2 things: Is it important that the purple sourspot hits? Does only the backhit sourspot jablock or do actually jablock both hits, the front and the back one?

edit: so far from my testing I'm pretty sure it only works with purple sourspot backhit of dsmash. I am testing % right now, works from 40-110% on Mario. Afterwards, at 120% Mario tends to do some sort of automatic roll when hit by the purple sourspot backhit.
Don't know how you test earlier % to check jablocks, but could someone maybe check if it also works on earlier %?

edit2: maybe this video is easier to watch because it's shorter and reduced to the jablock itself.
 
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EnhaloTricks

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So I saw this on Twitter today...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And my first question was how tf did they lock him more than 3 times? Is it because DK's side B is supposed to bury? If so, would that mean you could potentially do this with Villager dsmash, ZSS flip kick (bury hit box), or any other burying move? Could it also be that locks are only 3 per character (ie, one character can only lock up to 3 times uninterrupted, but if another character locks before the 3rd it resets)? I was always under the impression that you could only lock a MAXIMUM of 3 times regardless.

So many questions lol
 

Simikins

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Missing from ZSS:
Upsmash
Not sure what hit, but it's a thing and can be seen here.

Missing from Charizard:
Upsmash (see previous comment).

Edit:
Missing from ROB:
Gyro (while spinning on the ground)
Seen here
 
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Kon

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Missing from ZSS:
Upsmash
Not sure what hit, but it's a thing and can be seen here.

Missing from Charizard:
Upsmash (see previous comment).

Edit:
Missing from ROB:
Gyro (while spinning on the ground)
Seen here
*Missing from Olimar:
Purple Downsmash Backhit Sourspot (posted it a few comments above)
 

MythTrainerInfinity

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Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn thank you for all of this valuable info.

Might I make a request for testing Lucario's Jab Locks for when he is at 35%, 70%, 100%, 145% and 190%, please? There may be some neat footstool jab lock combos for Lucario that might really help his matchups. If we are lucky we may have a 0-death...
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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Apologies for the late reply. I have been pre-occupied with other responsibilities since before patch 1.15, and I really did believe that 1.14 was the final patch. But I was wrong - twice! Here are the changes to jab lock ranges in accordance with 1.15, as nothing in 1.16 has impacted Bayonetta's ranges.

:4bowser: weight increased, and he is my heaviest threshold. It's likely several lock ranges may have changed by 1% on him specifically and need to be altered. And maybe a move or two now works exclusively on him at 0%.
:4bayonetta: Fsmash KBG decrease. Range for weak 14% hit has not changed from 0-X/X/1
:4charizard: Fair no longer works due to damage increase
:4ganondorf:Jab weak hit damage increased from 7 to 8. Range changed from 0-1/2/4 to 0-X/1/2
:4pacman:Bair KBG increase. 11% strong hit range changed from 0-16/22/27 to 0-16/20/26. 7% weak hit range changed from 0-47/57/66 to 0-47/57/67
:4samus:Fair first hit no longer works due to angle change.
Ftilt damage increase on all hits by 2%, and BKB increase on two weaker hits
-no angle knee hit range changed 0-86/102/116 to 0-45/54/64
-angled knee hit range changed 0-74/88/100 to 0-38/47/56
-no angle crotch hit range changed 0-74/88/100 to 0-38/47/56
-angled crotch hit ranged changed 0- to 0-33/41/49
-no angle toe hit changed 0-6/8/11 to 0-1/4/6
-angled toe hit changed 0-4/6/8 to 0-0/2/4
:4zelda:Jab final hit damage, BKB, and KBG altered. Range changed from 0-X/0/1 to 0-0/1/2

So I saw this on Twitter today...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And my first question was how tf did they lock him more than 3 times? Is it because DK's side B is supposed to bury? If so, would that mean you could potentially do this with Villager dsmash, ZSS flip kick (bury hit box), or any other burying move? Could it also be that locks are only 3 per character (ie, one character can only lock up to 3 times uninterrupted, but if another character locks before the 3rd it resets)? I was always under the impression that you could only lock a MAXIMUM of 3 times regardless.

So many questions lol
To answer your question, you can only lock a character three times. But it's clear that bury moves do not follow this rule. As far as I can tell, they do allow for the same grace period to extend the lock - 38 frames to hit the victim again. When a bury move locks somebody, the victim stands up automatically after 38 frames, just like when you've locked them for a third time with a normal move, so I assumed that further locks were impossible, but that gif proves me wrong. There are no bury attacks in Smash 4 that are fast enough to lock indefinitely in singles, but the possibility is there for doubles. It's a good find.


*Missing from Olimar:
Purple Downsmash Backhit Sourspot (posted it a few comments above)
That is interesting. The late hit of Dsmash has a 0 degree angle on purples only. It works on either side of Olimar. I don't think anybody's ever made a note of this. The range is 0-150+% on all characters.

As of the most recent patch, Charizard's late hitbox of his first hit of his U-smash will jab lock. It is useful if you dash up to a downed opponent, then reverse jump cancel U-smash to lock them, followed by an F-smash. Here is a video showing it off at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaG5D07dWJE
Another good find. I seen the patch notes for when Charizard's Usmash was changed, but I don't think that angle is new. Just that the hitbox was altered to hit targets as large as Metaknight when prone behind you. The range is 0-150+% on all characters that you can reach.

Missing from ZSS:
Upsmash
Not sure what hit, but it's a thing and can be seen here.

Missing from ROB:
Gyro (while spinning on the ground)
Seen here
I will add these as well. The ZSS Usmash should work until 150% with its angle and poor knockback scaling. Depending on how long the gyro has been spinning without momentum, it deals 5% or 2%. The 2% hit range is 0-150+% on all characters. The 5% range is 0-91/108/127%.
 

Simikins

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While testing Sheik's locking moves a while ago, I got her late 4% nair (the back hit) to lock further than you have listed.
You have it listed as "Up to 43%" but:

Late 4% hit (Frames 7-30) ~ Works up to 47%

Is what I found.

Edit: Tested on Mario
 
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Molk

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I just now discovered that :4gaw:'s Ftilt can jab lock. However, only the 9% hitbox and the late hitbox are capable of doing so.

It doesn't seem to be very practical though since both hitboxes only seem to be capable of locking at low percentages. I used the web based Sm4sh calculator to calculate how long both hitboxes would lock, the 9% hitbox only locks Bowser at 0-1%, while the late hitbox locks him up to 15%, characters lighter than Mario cannot be locked by the 9% hitbox at all according to the calculator, but all characters can be locked by the late hitbox. Regardless, i think it should still be added because no matter how practical it is, the move still *does* jab lock.

If you want to test this yourself ingame, just go into training mode, Uthrow Bowser and quickly reset the percentage to 0 while he's is still in the air, then pivot Ftilt him after he lands so that you get the 9% hitbox, it *should* jab lock, with a little more finesse, you can get the 4% hitbox and see that it also locks. Another way to test it is to bring Bowser to battlefield, set him up on one of the platforms, set the percentage to 0, then pivot Ftilt him so you get the 9% hitbox, you should end up prattacking him.

Calculated jab locking percentages for Bowser/Mario/Jigglypuff below.

:4bowser:

9% hitbox: 0-1%
4% hitbox: 0-15%

:4mario:

9% hitbox: 0%
4% hitbox: 0-12%

:4jigglypuff:

9% hitbox: N/A
4% hitbox: 0-10%
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

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While testing Sheik's locking moves a while ago, I got her late 4% nair (the back hit) to lock further than you have listed.
You have it listed as "Up to 43%" but:

Late 4% hit (Frames 7-30) ~ Works up to 47%

Is what I found.

Edit: Tested on Mario
Ah, that's definitely a holdover value from when the one and only test subject was metaknight. Thanks for catching that, I updated it.

I just now discovered that :4gaw:'s Ftilt can jab lock. However, only the 9% hitbox and the late hitbox are capable of doing so.

It doesn't seem to be very practical though since both hitboxes only seem to be capable of locking at low percentages. I used the web based Sm4sh calculator to calculate how long both hitboxes would lock, the 9% hitbox only locks Bowser at 0-1%, while the late hitbox locks him up to 15%, characters lighter than Mario cannot be locked by the 9% hitbox at all according to the calculator, but all characters can be locked by the late hitbox. Regardless, i think it should still be added because no matter how practical it is, the move still *does* jab lock.

If you want to test this yourself ingame, just go into training mode, Uthrow Bowser and quickly reset the percentage to 0 while he's is still in the air, then pivot Ftilt him after he lands so that you get the 9% hitbox, it *should* jab lock, with a little more finesse, you can get the 4% hitbox and see that it also locks. Another way to test it is to bring Bowser to battlefield, set him up on one of the platforms, set the percentage to 0, then pivot Ftilt him so you get the 9% hitbox, you should end up prattacking him.

Calculated jab locking percentages for Bowser/Mario/Jigglypuff below.

:4bowser:

9% hitbox: 0-1%
4% hitbox: 0-15%

:4mario:

9% hitbox: 0%
4% hitbox: 0-12%

:4jigglypuff:

9% hitbox: N/A
4% hitbox: 0-10%
Good catch on this move, but I'm afraid Mario is too light to be locked at 0% in training mode. But the Bowser value is correct so it's added to the list. As for the late 4% hit, while I'm sure it works theoretically based on angle and lesser knockback, I try to keep the list with only moves and results that are manually testable.
 
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Molk

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Ah, that's definitely a holdover value from when the one and only test subject was metaknight. Thanks for catching that, I updated it.



Good catch on this move, but I'm afraid Mario is too light to be locked at 0% in training mode. But the Bowser value is correct so it's added to the list. As for the late 4% hit, while I'm sure it works theoretically based on angle and lesser knockback, I try to keep the list with only moves and results that are manually testable.
Ah, alright, guess the rubendal calculator was slightly off there haha, i recalculated it and it says the 9% hitbox should lock Mario, but testing it ingame proves otherwise.
 
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