Ive got some questions about Fox's Dair...Yes his dair >_<

[RPK]

Yay, another aerial thread ._.

Anyways, more studying and stuffs by me, and I got onto to looking more into Dair. Of course, the negative things that is already is known that it has crap range, shouldnt be used to approach, ect. Though I wanna know more about the move. For example, like Fox's SH Auto cancel'd Fair, if done right off the bat you can get more hits to connect. Everyone here knows this move, but I havent really read anything on this that would cover this move 100%. There are a few things that I have I have found out when I was playing around with Fox earlier today. Ive was working around with it, and seeing how many hits I can get on Meta Knight and ended up doing a dair on him that did 18%. Thing is, he was on the ground the entire during the dair.

Though I have a few good questions. I'll fill out the answers here so I can mark them...I know there is a Q&A thread. Thing is, I want to mark all the answers for this move here, and make a thread covering this this move 100%

Whats the criteria for getting ALL, or at the very least, most of the hits to connect?

Whats are the exact circumstances to make an opponent trip because of dair?

What are the chances, and when is the starting percent to force a character to trip?

Do chances of tripping change for each character?

Sometimes Dair to Upsmash wont "combo" why is that?

Does hitstun change according to how many hits are made?

What is the difference between a 105% (105% meaning its fully refreshed) Dair and one that is fully diminished besides the damage output?

If you Short hop, and instantly Dair, is it possible to get all of the hits to connect on a grounded opponent? Even one as short as Meta Knight? (I ask this because I got all but the last hit to connect on Meta Knight, thus getting 18% instead of 21.)

If Dair is fully diminished will it have the same amount of hit stun?

The known percent for comboing Dair Upsmash is somewhere around 100%. Though, does it change for each character?

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

Sometimes Dair to Upsmash wont "combo" why is that?

that happens if you dair right above the dair>upsmash percent and the last hit of the dair was a bt early,since you want to hit them with the dair RIGHt before you hit the ground to have the most frame advantage, but it the last hit of the dair was a few feet off the ground, the actualy landing time eats up the frame advantage you had and increses the percent needed to drill>upsmash

(just my theory though)

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'm pretty sure that the % for the dair usmash combo does change with each character... I might test that later...

It also, if I'm right, very much depends on how diminished dair is... so that would definitely explain why dair won't combo sometimes, when it technically should...

use moar lazors.

 

[RPK]

and this move imo is our most known move yet we dont know everything about it. wtf? =/

 

[Fenrir VII]

I would do some testing, but there's no good way for me to test diminished returns by myself, really...

I've been curious about that for a while.

The safest overall option at each % (imo) is:

0 - 25% - Dair grab or JJC
25 - 60% - Dair Utilt, grab, or JJC
60 - 100% - Dair Dsmash, Utilt, grab, or JJC
> 100% - Dair Usmash, Dsmash, Utilt, grab, or JJC


While each of these work a bit lower than this normally... this is about the % you can count on it hitting... Typically, Dair usmash hits around the upper 80s to mid 90s (something like 85%ish on MK... I did the testing, but I can't remember), but with any diminishing, that goes away... You may even need to shift my upper numbers for dsmash and usmash even higher, really...

This is why I cannot... CANNOT stress the value of lasers and grab w/ grab attacks and a throw enough... you really need to refill your other moves... not just your kills moves.

To address your other questions, if I can....

Whats the criteria for getting ALL, or at the very least, most of the hits to connect?

I honestly think it's just performing the move from a SH as soon as you can... MK is a bit short for it.. This typically isn't the safest or best option for using dair, though... While it does a lot of damage, hitting with the full move is a bit slower and riskier, and I'd rather just keep it fast.

Whats are the exact circumstances to make an opponent trip because of dair?

I believe it's a random occurrence upwards of around 65%ish... I know that some attacks have guaranteed trip %s and spots... I don't believe this to be so with Dair, but I might be wrong here...

What are the chances, and when is the starting percent to force a character to trip?

I believe it's around 70%. Can't tell you an exact number... (I'm not really good for testing. I might do some, though, for this)


Do chances of tripping change for each character?

interesting idea... where's Kheldar when you need him?

Sometimes Dair to Upsmash wont "combo" why is that?

Believe it's due to dimished returns, as discussed before

Does hitstun change according to how many hits are made?

No... well, technically yes, but just due to the extra damage you apply... Hitstun of the attack is related to damage, and not to the number of hits.

What is the difference between a 105% (105% meaning its fully refreshed) Dair and one that is fully diminished besides the damage output?

hitstun, I believe.

If you Short hop, and instantly Dair, is it possible to get all of the hits to connect on a grounded opponent? Even one as short as Meta Knight? (I ask this because I got all but the last hit to connect on Meta Knight, thus getting 18% instead of 21.)

I would say it is, but haven't tested.

If Dair is fully diminished will it have the same amount of hit stun?

No... I don't think so... in my play, dair sometimes just won't combo into stuff, and I believe it's due to lack of hitstun from the diminished attack.

The known percent for comboing Dair Upsmash is somewhere around 100%. Though, does it change for each character?

Actually yes, I believe so... I tested this before, but I kinda did it quickly, so I forgot everything I tested...



Another interesting question I have:

does hitstun applied by the dair change for each character?

It seems so much harder to dair> anything against a DDD than anybody else... I have no idea why this is...


These questions involve a lot of testing done... but I do think it would be worth it...

 

[RPK]

Anyone else willing to help me cover Fox's Dair? I mean...Theres a lot of stuff here that I personally believe that most of us still dont know about it that would easily help us out.

 

[Rohan]

i know that if the opponent is in the air when u dair him then it is auto anything at any percent
i also would like to know if u dair>jjc is it auto at any percent??

 

[Fenrir VII]

We really need some frame testers on the Fox boards... >.>

But as far as I know and have tested Dair > jab, and thus JJC is guaranteed, yes.


In the air, it's automatic? I thought it could still be shielded, but I guess it would depend on height and placement...

 

[Zhamy]

Whats the criteria for getting ALL, or at the very least, most of the hits to connect?

Spacing and position. It can be SDIed out of (excruciatingly difficult though), so if you want to guarantee that you'll land all the hits, start it right on top of their head.

Sometimes Dair to Upsmash wont "combo" why is that?

You're not spacing it correctly. Dair should end just as Fox touches the ground to be sure.

Does hitstun change according to how many hits are made?

No. However, as you land more hits of the move, their damage increases, so hitstun increases slightly. Nothing noticeable, though.

What is the difference between a 105% (105% meaning its fully refreshed) Dair and one that is fully diminished besides the damage output?

Unnoticeable amount of hitstun.

If you Short hop, and instantly Dair, is it possible to get all of the hits to connect on a grounded opponent? Even one as short as Meta Knight? (I ask this because I got all but the last hit to connect on Meta Knight, thus getting 18% instead of 21.)

You may have to RAR Dair and crossup.

If Dair is fully diminished will it have the same amount of hit stun?

No, but you won't notice the difference.

The known percent for comboing Dair Upsmash is somewhere around 100%. Though, does it change for each character?

You can actually combo into it at much lower percents.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Unnoticeable amount of hitstun.

I'm pretty sure this lack of hitstun results in Dair to _____ combos not working... which is not a good thing...

 

[GreenFox]

What is this guaranteed? I don't have anybody to test it on but the stun they have makes it look so.