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"It's Freakin' Link!" - A look at Link in Smash 4

DarkDeity15

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You guys should seriously know about this. It's been discovered that Link can cancel the landing lag of any aerial with his down special item toss. Now on how to do it. First off, your bomb needs to be on the ground. Do any aerial near enough to it that you pick it up. When you land, cancel the lag with a bomb throw (like how you cancel airdodge landing lag). With this, I actually connected a F-air> bomb throw> F-air, and I'm sure F-air isn't the only option. This new tech opens up so many possibilities! Here's a vid of mine demonstrating this with Link's F-air and arrows.
 

Blubba_Pinecone

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Yeah, I posted about that and added it to the OP about 2 weeks ago. Wasn't sure if it had a name so called it DownB Canceling. Thanks, though.
 

DarkDeity15

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Yeah, I posted about that and added it to the OP about 2 weeks ago. Wasn't sure if it had a name so called it DownB Canceling. Thanks, though.
Yeah, I remember seeing a Japanese video showing off the tech now that I think about it, so nothing really new here. Either way, this tech is huge. At least my vid was something to note. :p
 

Dott

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Does Link still have the grounded upb semispike? in ssbwiki says that now is aerial, how does it work if that it's true?
 

Radical Larry

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Does Link still have the grounded upb semispike? in ssbwiki says that now is aerial, how does it work if that it's true?
He does not, actually. His Down Smash (back portion) is a semi-spike now, though not as reliable as one would think.
 

Zane the pure

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Jab locks are back from brawl, except they don't work like an infinite anymore. Apparently it only works for 3 jabs before they pop up, like Linkspec said. However, Link's jab doesn't work for locking anymore, but his arrows and Nair still do. Both are pretty much useless though. There aren't many practical arrow lock set ups anymore since the boomerang doesn't knock people to the ground and footstool -> Nair lock is somewhat useless since we don't have a jab lock anymore.
Just wanted to say, Bombstool to N-air lock still totally works, but the timing is really stringent. You can't do it slowly at all or you'll whiff on wakeup invinciblity, and you can't do it frame perfect because it doesn't lock right away (IE they can roll out after N-air if you do it too fast) and FF N-air sourspot is hard to land on downed opponents (except Bowser, D3 and so on.). The positioning of the hitbox seems to be Link's off leg tucked inside the kick.

The best thing I can see from either the arrow lock or the N-air lock is that it will basically act like a jab reset from Melee leading to guaranteed F-smash/Up-B/D-smash/Throw/bomb throw+follow up etc.
 
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MrFrigid

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I think its pretty dumb that link cant drop bombs without Z-airing -__-

So many combo opportunities gone because of that one stupid detail.
Link CAN drop bombs without zairing. You just have to zair like half a frame before you leave the ground, it's possible but barely. Trying to do it will screw you over more often than not. Maybe it'll be easier on the WiiU version.
 

CostLow

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I think I may have found something somewhat useful for us. I'll try to get a video of it before I try to describe it for you guys.

Edit: Upon further review, I found that this technique I found is not something new, but instead is just an older tech from Brawl that few people talk about or seem to use in battles that I've seen. It is however mentioned in the OP so I won't bother. ;)
 
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Ryu_Ken

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I've been looking at past matches, and it seems like people are playing Link like Brawl Link. He needs more arrow-bombing (toss-cancel) and especially more bombs thrown. This is how I implement this:

Far-range from opponent: arrow bombing, arrows, and backwards thrown boomerangs (for whirlwind effect)
Mid-range from opponent: arrow bombing, bombs (mix between in air and on ground) and boomerangs (same for bombs), sometimes backwards thrown boomerangs (rare)
Close-range from opponent: have bombs at the ready for follow-ups
 

A_Phoenix_Down

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I'm loving the tiper mechanic on Fsmash1. Fsmash2 appears to be a much more reliable kill move still but the tipper can lead to better mix ups.

Also, it appears jab can effectively cancel into other moves such as up smash and dsmash. Nothing but good signs for link clearly
 

DavemanCozy

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Seems hard to set up the bomb toss cancel, but worth it. This is by far more useful on Peach, but glad to see that Link can also do this: it's a possibility, albeit a little situational / harder to set up.

The most useful application seems to be aerial Bow shot -> Bomb throw. Cancel the Bows lag and throw a bomb right after. I'm liking Link a lot in this game, we finally get a Link that isn't crappy for once (not counting PM)
 

Los4Muros

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Long throw bombs, short throw boomerang, Air cancels, Item cancels. Bomb recovery,spacing, item pressure, Air Grabs, Air hits followed by ground follow-ups...

WOW, Link is one complicated character. Applause to you guys, it takes a rough player to master him.
 

Blubba_Pinecone

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Apologies for not checking on the thread within the last few weeks, I went on a family vacation!

Depending on my financial situation, hopefully I'll be able to grab the Wii U version shortly after its release and be able to better test and experiment with Link stuff.

Also, the 3DS version hates me and refuses to give me all of his alternative special moves. :V
 

Rizen

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^That was already covered as a returning AT from Brawl in the OP but thanks anyway.
 

link and ike lover

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Its Friken Link God Of all Characters!!!!
Link is just too op!
Well in my eyes.
Wish everyone sees link like I do!
Link can beat any character if he is used right!
Link will forever be High tier to me.
He has so many great techniques under his sleeve he can be extremely fast and op. With all his ATs he will become unstoppable and I can not wait to show people my Link in ssb4 for WiiU
Have a nice day my Fellow Link Mainers and may Link be high tiers in our eyes forever!
Link forever~ <3
 
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Izaw

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Link is nerfed, his grab is slower if missed and no more down B cancel....**** my life
 

Elessar

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Link is nerfed, his grab is slower if missed and no more down B cancel....**** my life
We actually have a list of all changes, and Link hasn't been entirely nerfed. While TC has been taken away for everyone, he has received several interesting buffs.

Also, his grab isn't slower if missed, it's either slightly faster or the same by all accounts.
 

Blubba_Pinecone

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Just in case anyone was wondering, I'll be updating everything in the OP with respect to v1.0.4 once I can get my hands on the Wii U version, which might be a few weeks, I'm not sure. I apologize for the delay, but bills and real life exist unfortunately.

Until then I'll remove the section on DownB Canceling, as that is a major change, and make note of Fsmash's improved combo-ability from 1st to 2nd hit.
 

Rizen

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Link's frame data:
http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-data-and-hitbox-values-for-every-character-wip.378789/

BEGIN link
**********
Jab1
Hits on frame: 7.0
Hitboxes end: 9.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.5
Max Hitbox BKB: 37
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 87.5
Max Hitbox Angle: 95

Jab2
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 8.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.5
Max Hitbox BKB: 10
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 95.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 90

Jab3
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 11.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 50
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 350.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 30

Dash Attack
Hits on frame: 21.0
Hitboxes end: 25.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 78
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 980.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 45

F-tilt (normal)
Hits on frame: 15.0
Hitboxes end: 20.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 13.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 82
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 715.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

U-tilt
Hits on frame: 8.0
Hitboxes end: 13.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 9.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 122
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 270.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 95

D-tilt
Hits on frame: 13.0
Hitboxes end: 15.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 50
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 1080.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

F-smash release (normal)
Hits on frame: 15.0
Hitboxes end: 17.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 420.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Fsmash 2 (?)
unknown substate 0x60
Hits on frame: 12.0
Hitboxes end: 14.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 13.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 85
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 1105.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 48

U-smash release
Hits on frame: 10.0
Hitboxes end: 46.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 11.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 96
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 660.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

D-smash release
Hits on frame: 9.0
Hitboxes end: 23.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 17.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 442.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 75

Nair
Hits on frame: 7.0
Hitboxes end: 32.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 11.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 242.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Fair
Hits on frame: 14.0
Hitboxes end: 28.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 10.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 105
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 300.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 45

Bair
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 23.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 350.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Uair
Hits on frame: 11.0
Hitboxes end: 41.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 15.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 88
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 270.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 85

Dair
Hits on frame: 14.0
Hitboxes end: 65.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 18.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 80
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 540.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 65

Pummel
Hits on frame: 9.0
Hitboxes end: 10.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.1
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

F-throw
Hits on frame: 12.0
Hitboxes end: 14.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 120
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 55

B-throw
Hits on frame: 12.0
Hitboxes end: 14.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 110
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 130

U-throw
Hits on frame: 26.0
Hitboxes end: 30.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 250.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 20

D-throw
Hits on frame: 22.0
Hitboxes end: 24.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 110




I'm guessing the special move based on the damage for these. The "max hitbox damage" seems a little low:

Arrow
unknown substate 0x243
Hits on frame: 4.0
Hitboxes end: 37.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 84
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 720.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 47

Spin Attack
unknown substate 0x244
Hits on frame: 4.0
Hitboxes end: 37.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 72
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 952.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Bomb
unknown substate 0x24b
Hits on frame: 8.0
Hitboxes end: 49.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 85

Boomerang
unknown substate 0x24c
Hits on frame: 8.0
Hitboxes end: 49.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 160
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 180.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 30

**********
END link


Notes:
Link's about as slow as in Brawl (:() so we need to take full advantage of his better jumps and mobility. Remember Toon Link was a high tier but had a slower ground game than Link in Brawl because his mobility.
A few changes:
Dsmash nerfed to frame 9 (was 7)
Spin Attack starts on frame 4 (was 6 or 7 iirc) making it a decent OoS.
Dash Attack hits on frame 21
 
Last edited:

Ryu_Ken

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GG and WP to you too, man. Thanks for that matches. As I'm sure you're well aware of now, I need all the help I can get lol.
I can tell that you know how to use Link. You just gotta get faster with him and make more use of his tilts. See how I punished you for those fsmashes? Refrain from using them too often.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Alright I finally got the game and did some testing in training mode, 1/4th speed, for the best kill options. I recorded it and timed each move to see their relative lengths. Take this with a grain of salt (which should be easy because we're competitive fighting game players :p)

Ground attacks tiers are based on how quickly each move ends (IASA judged by holding shield)

S tier
(If Link's holding a bomb already) bomb throw is very fast and safe and can lead to combos.

Jab 1 is the least committing option Link has on the ground (starts frame 7). It ends the soonest.

The fastest kill move is Spin attack this time according to the frame data (starts frame 4) but it also takes the longest to end tied with Usmash. But if jab combos better in this game then we have a reliable jab>spin attack (or jab>jab>spin seems to work vs CPUs) set up and spin is a special move so it's very easy to buffer on the soonest frame after jab. If jab misses than don't 2nd jab or SA and it's safe.
Can someone help confirm how much of a true combo this is? I can't play well until I get the GC controller adapter.
If this is a reliable combo than it will be our best ground kill setup.

Utilt (frame 8) is the next fastest and safest kill option. Good old Utilt. It hits a bit in front of Link, above and a good distance behind him.
_________________________
A tier

Ftilt starts the same time Fsmash does (frame 15) but it hits behind Link first and ends slightly sooner. Ftilt is a good substitute to Fsmash if the opponent is closer. Fsmash hits more in front of Link and whiffs on and behind Link.

Grab: this time around it's slightly faster than Fsmash to end. Uthrow kills at high %s. Grab might be slightly shorter than Brawl but it will air grab the entire length.

Dsmash hits on frame 9 (not 7 like in Brawl so SA is faster) and ends about as fast as Fsmash. Use it to punish rolls behind Link and hit on both sides.

Fsmash (15) hits in front low and comboes into Fsmash 2 for good damage.

Dash attack takes about as long as Fsmash 1 to end but it also starts on frame 21. As far as I can tell DACUS have been removed from the game (I didn't slide at all, can someone confirm?) and this gives a KOing DA more value since it can be done from a dash. Use DA as a landing punisher.

Note: NONE of the moves in this tier will reach above Link enough to hit characters on BF platforms, not even Ftilt or DA even though the energy trail suggest it.
______________________
B tier
Usmash (frame 10) and spin attack take about the same time to end and shouldn't be used except chains, platform pokes for Usmash and frame traps. If you whiff these Link will be severely punished.


________________________________________________________________________________________
Other stuff

Note: aerials Bair, Nair, Fair and Zair seem to only have the normal landing lag, which seems like more than Brawl. I think landing chains aren't as good as in Brawl but land>jab will probably work in most cases. Nair/Bair 1st hit>Spin attack might be worth investigating as a combo.


bomb pulls are pretty fast, faster than arrows and Boomerang throws. use bombs a lot, as usual. Bomb throws are the safest thing Link can do if he's already holding a bomb.
I think projectiles are slightly less laggy than in Brawl.

Zair ledge tethering rapidly doesn't work. Zair only does 2% then 4% damage but still hits 2 times and is a great spacing tool.

Locks and bomb footstool combos seem less reliable but it might just be me sucking with this controller.
 
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Zelkam

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I can tell that you know how to use Link. You just gotta get faster with him and make more use of his tilts. See how I punished you for those fsmashes? Refrain from using them too often.
Believe me, I would love to use more tilts, but I have the hardest time pulling them off consistently with the 3DS circle pad. I definitely appreciate the matches and the critique, though. I feel like I need to work on my recovery options as well. You're the first person I've played that was able to shut down my recovery so effectively.

@ Rizen Rizen You never cease to amaze me. You're like a walking encyclopedia lol. I can confirm that Utilt is a good option. I've managed to get jab1>Utilt to register as a combo in training mode. I think it doesn't start until a certain percentage, though, and I'm not sure what that is.
 

FSK

Smash Ace
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Heres a pdf document I compiled. We can add and change the images when we have better ones.

I didn't know where to upload the pdf, so I renamed it to a jpg file and used PasteAll. Just download it and rename it to a pdf file.

http://www.pasteall.org/pic/80294
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Edit okay i'll join. Darn I'm not using the controls right at all. I'm going to really suck :/

Sorry, I can't use this controller at all. I keep pressing the wrong buttons and missing directions. I'll play again when I get a CG controller, lol
 
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link and ike lover

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Edit okay i'll join. Darn I'm not using the controls right at all. I'm going to really suck :/

Sorry, I can't use this controller at all. I keep pressing the wrong buttons and missing directions. I'll play again when I get a CG controller, lol
Ggs lol
Any1 else
 
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Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
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GGs. Sorry for all the SDs. My button mapping was completely off and I couldn't do anything.
 
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