Items should have banlists rather than outright banned in tournaments

[DonkeyPirate]

that is way too long of a match for a tournament to even finish. just give it up already please

 

[Yuna]

Well then, THIS IS FREAKING SMASH!! A 4 PLAYER FIGHTING GAME WITH ITEMS, POKEMONS, ASSIST TROPHIES, FINAL SMASHES AND A CERTAIN RANDOM FACTOR!! And you want to cut it down to nothingness. You want to transform it into Street Fighter and say that that is competitive and skillful.

You can play the way you want. I play it the way I want!

When there's lots of money on the line, we want it to be a game where pure skill determines the winner. We do not want randomness and broken **** to determine tournaments. Because that's our choice.

Feel free to play the way you want to. Do not tell us how to play the game! I don't see anyone telling you to stop playing with items or criticizing you for doing so. Why do you feel the need to tell us we're wrong and try to change our minds?

We have valid reasons for doing things the way we do. It's called competitive gaming with money involved. You obviously do not wish to take a part of it. So why do you even care what we do?!

 

[Yuna]

Nice point. What about a 5 stock match. Considering that in Brawl you can handle a little more damage than in Melee.

Irrelevant. If a lucky item spawn inflicts damage at all, then it's already tipped the scales of balance in some way. Those 5-10-20-30% might be the ones to determine whether you die from that Smash. If you die, you die, if you survive and make it back, you live to inflict more damage/take more stock for that stock.

We do not want this. Why can you not comprehend this?! You do not like the way we play it, fine. Why do you care?!

 

[Pi]

Can you make a new thread where we're featured (or rather our mains) with text "We're gay for each other"? Because, really, I need more users like you around to help me strike down users who refuse to acknowledge they have no basis for what they're saying.

Lol! (Thread or sig? I gotta change my sig, it's not appropriate for all viewers (Half naked man and 'gay, I thought it may have been a bit too Risqu'e ) . No biggy, gives me something to do :D)

For years and years I've argued my points on the internet, not for smash but for other games and stuff, and time and time again I find that people generally ignore my main points, or skip around stuff they can't retort to.

Unfortunately what I've found is that, for every person who agrees with me or with my ideas or how many people I convince, there are about 10 more people who still try to argue the same old tired arguments simply for the sake of posting.

I really don't think, with a community this big, that anything can be solved entirely, and with every new member that joins it opens up the possibility for the same old arguments to start up again.

It's futile really, but I suppose that if we can at least change some peoples views it's worth it?

And I actually kind of enjoy it, the debating. I would enjoy it more if they would acknowledge the good points in the arguments we make, though. .


I just ask the people who are arguing for items to stop for a second and recount what we have stated:

We are not saying you're style of playing is wrong. Our tournaments are in place to judge the skill of a player and his character, with no other variables.


What you're suggesting is a different skill test. While no less important, it is less prominent. Please, just stop arguing, we get your points and we get your views, please try to understand ours.

No items, end of discussion. They are random, and so they do not add any skill requirements to the game. PWNED!

I wish it were that simple

 

[geemann2236]

No items, end of discussion. They are random, and so they do not add any skill requirements to the game. PWNED!

 

[Yuna]

That's exactly my mindset. If we can change just one or even more than one newcomer's views, then we'll have succeeded. Even if in the process, we have to wave through a whole bunch of inane repeating of the same stale arguments and users who ignore things they cannot refute.

It's pathetic really.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

seriously though. I dont think anyone has complained about having to use certain controllers or items in the gamestop tournament. We are just going to play by their rules because we want to participate.

 

[Pi]

Yea, I guess that's what it comes down to too.

If you don't like a tournaments rules, then don't enter. Host your own or browse for one that is satisfactory to your own style of playing.


I don't think any threads like this should be made, stating that items or stages or smash balls SHOULD be in tournaments. A better title would be to ask WHY they are NOT included in tournaments. Or depending on what you're trying to get out of the thread maybe a thread asking where you can find tournaments using items and smash balls, or if anyone would help you create a tournament using those items.


It is what it is though. All we can do is ask for people to consider our views and accept them, in other words offer the same courtesy that we offer them.

 

[Pikachu'sBlueWizardHat]

I won't be stricken down so easily!

stuff

First of all, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. This thread had 5 pages last night, I woke up this morning, Yuna had posted, and now it has 11 pages. Half of those new posts were Yuna.

Also, I don't have a problem with the points Yuna is making, just the way that he/she is making them (is Yuna a he or she? I will assume male until someone corrects me). It seems like every word out of Yuna's mouth says "You don't know what you're talking about, I do, I have been around so much longer than you, your arguments are invalid because we disproved them ages ago, stop wasting my precious time". He is making valid points, but he could try to be less of a **** about it.

And I understand this post makes me a **** for calling out a single poster. But I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Whatever. I'm done with this thread.

 

[Fox_Makenshi]

Besides luck and random spawns, another reason they're off is because of whining, complaining and bad sportsmanship after losing a match. If it's all skill based then you can say gg nice show of skill, etc... If it's skill/item based then there can be all kinds of complaining like you only won because of (random exploding 1HKO item)!

I understand both sides of the argument but I have to agree for tournaments items should be off. Yes items do take skill but it also takes luck, you can't deny that. Fighting with no items eliminates luck from the equation and leads to a good, fair match. You can't complain or badmouth the other person if it was all skill based because then you look like an idiot.

Yes good players must know how to adapt and playing against someone you don't know is an example of that. You also must adapt to items but you shouldn't have to when it's a test of skill and skill alone.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

 

[DonkeyPirate]

dude.... let it go.

 

[pirkid]

I do not believe you can turn off boxes/barrels. Bob-ombs or not, those things will explode on occasion, making any item unplayable, excluding Smash Balls because they do not come packed in a box.

 

[Yuna]

First of all, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. This thread had 5 pages last night, I woke up this morning, Yuna had posted, and now it has 11 pages. Half of those new posts were Yuna.

No they weren't. And why must I keep repeating myself? Because my "opponents" keep repeating themselves.

Also, I don't have a problem with the points Yuna is making, just the way that he/she is making them (is Yuna a he or she? I will assume male until someone corrects me). It seems like every word out of Yuna's mouth says "You don't know what you're talking about, I do, I have been around so much longer than you, your arguments are invalid because we disproved them ages ago, stop wasting my precious time". He is making valid points, but he could try to be less of a **** about it.

I would be less of an *** about it if it weren't for the fact the arguments they're repeating were posted on the same page/one page ago and they've already been refuted repeatedly. But even then I stil remain kinda curteous.

It's when I reply to someone and they ignore the parts of my posts they cannot find counter-arguments to and keep on yapping and insulting me an my fellow Competitive gamers that I stop trying to be nice.

Because they really have no one to blame but themselves at that point. But I still don't flame outright 'til far beyond that point. I just use biting sarcasm. It's a way of life, really.

 

[Pi]

pirkid:
You can turn those off, which is why I think this has been one of the best arguments concerning items in tourneys. But it doesn't negate the randomness.

Pikachu:
I give props to Yuna for being able to stay as cool as he is throughout all of this actually xD
He has tried to be calm and no matter how calm anyone is while providing the points that he has they still get ignored =\. Any way, that's irrelevant, I don't think he was quite as arrogant as you said...but his points remain valid non-the-less. And his early points were made without any hint of arrogance.

And in all actuality, he HAS been around a long time, these points HAVE been argued a thousand times before and this IS a waste of time =\.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

That's exactly my mindset. If we can change just one or even more than one newcomer's views, then we'll have succeeded. Even if in the process, we have to wave through a whole bunch of inane repeating of the same stale arguments and users who ignore things they cannot refute.

It's pathetic really.

You are disgusting. You think you know a lot don't you? What is really pathetic is discussing with someone like you.

I say something and you change what I say. The fact is that many of you criticize item play with your theories. I understand your point and I am ok with your tournaments. But I really hate when you say item play is not skill, and want to underrate item tournament ideas. I will always be against you... always..

Today a guy brought Brawl to a place there was a Melee Tournament, and they were not even playing in any tournament, and an idiot came a shut all the items off, including the final smashes... Probably a guy with those stupid ideas against items...