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Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

N3ON

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Too many sword users is a stigma that's not going to go away at this point. But one only has to look at the fact that Sakurai keeps adding sword users to see it's nonsense.

And DD's commercial fate is only a failure when you compare it to the first two, and even then failure is a bit of an overstatement. It simply didn't do as well, but it moved a few hundred thousand units, which is fine for a JRPG in 2010. The first two just exceeded expectations by quite a bit. DD still sold much better than most other series not in Smash: S&P, W101, Custom Robo, several Wars titles, and several titles from existing Smash series, but people don't seem to acknowledge that... they hear it was a failure and they roll with it.

But look at Ike, he hails from one of the least commercially successful games in his series, and he got in over Lyn and Roy, so... you know, it's all relative.
 

LasermasterA

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Here is something I want to ask Isaac fans. What made you a fan of Isaac or want him for Smash? When did you start becoming a fan of Isaac?
Friend.

My friend introduced me to Golden Sun back in 2004 during school, if I remember correctly. I played the initial stages of the game and immediately got hooked. I remember rocking my way through the first game, and then the second game (albeit without passwords) immediately afterwards.

I remember telling my friend that I beat the final boss of the 2nd game whereas he had difficulties doing so and had been stuck since near forever. I helped him beat the Doom Dragon, and we also argued about the ambiguity of the ending :p His favourite character was Felix, mine was Isaac. I guess it was one of my first RPGs and the silent nature of Isaac made him my favourite as I could imagine his personality, till GS2 anyways where I liked his spoken role as well.

After getting tired of fake news of GS3, I finally found Dark Dawn and bought it in 2012. I absolutely loved the game as well as it still had the "GS charm" but had some problems of its own. I actually got stuck behind a shopkeeper in my game near the absolute end, and found a game-breaking bug >.<

After many attempts of fixing the game (I had no backup save), I just restarted the game immediately and finished it with 100% completion. Sadly, my friend has moved on but after I found Brawl and Melee, I immediately jumped into supporting Isaac.

During Sm4sh speculation, I found this thread and the awesome support for Isaac so here I am!

What about you?
 
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Skyblade12

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http://www.screwattack.com/news/smash-ballot-ultraguys-opinions-and-thoughts

My opinion about this article: It's good, pretty on point overall.
Though, for Isaac, the "too much swords users" and "Dark Dawn was a failure" are a little bit exaggerated imo.

Also, the guy put the Reddit poll where bots were used (the one with percentages) at the end, not the corrected one.
Utter rubbish.

Dark Dawn was negatively received by fans of the series, with nearly universal cries of "good, but not as good as the originals". However, the claims that it was poorly received by critics are complete nonsense. It received critical praise from most major reviewers, and was also very well received by players who were picking up the game for the first time.

It was not as much of a financial success as the original games, but its sales were not dismal, and it was not received badly by critics at all.
 

MagiusNecros

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How many sword users are there in comparison to fighters using their hands and feet? Thank you.

Dark Dawn selling at least 500k for a handheld game is not what I would call a failure.

If people want to ***** and moan about something then they can ***** about no golden sun content on the 3ds version, a track ripped out of dark dawn, the removal of not only the isaac assist trophy but also a regular trophy as well.

Uh huh.
 

JohnnySparkxs

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Isaac isn't a plain sword user, he's a magic-djinnmaster-summoner sword user :troll:.

In all seriousness, Isaac would be a magic sword user, with a ratio of probably 20% sword attacks/ 80% psynergy. He would also be fast and would pack quite a punch with his attacks, while being a mid-weight character. I've been thinking about making a movepool for Isaac with some original ideas and some others I've seen (for example, some moves from SSF2).
 

FalKoopa

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Marth and Lucina are the only 'pure' sword users on the roster. Everyone else has their quirks, Ike and Roy have their fiery attacks, Meta Knight has his tornado and cape, Link has assortment of tools, Robin has his tomes, so sword-user is a weak argument against a character.

:231:
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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Here is something I want to ask Isaac fans. What made you a fan of Isaac or want him for Smash? When did you start becoming a fan of Isaac?
I first saw Isaac as the AT in Brawl and didn't know who he was until I got into smash speculation maybe around 2010 (wasn't on the website I just made my own rosters and watched Pizzadudemanguy). I became a fan because I thought the idea of a earth magic user would be cool at first and then I became a fan of the Golden Sun series. The first and only game I own in the series is Dark Dawn but it still got me more interested in the franchise (have yet to finish the game because I'm grinding for xp for the final boss lol). I became a serious supporter around the time of Smash 4's E3 presentation 2 years ago and I wanted him along with K. Rool, Ridley and Goroh in smash.
 

MagiusNecros

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Marth and Lucina are the only 'pure' sword users on the roster. Everyone else has their quirks, Ike and Roy have their fiery attacks, Meta Knight has his tornado and cape, Link has assortment of tools, Robin has his tomes, so sword-user is a weak argument against a character.

:231:
Why did you mention Marth twice?
 

Moydow

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I had a quick go at coming up with a moveset for Isaac that makes use of all the elements of the game's battle system - standard attacks, psynergy, Djinn, and even summons.

Jab: A simple sword attack, like Marth's jab.

Dash: Isaac jumps and attacks the opponent (like his standard attack in the games).

F-smash: Skull Splitter - Isaac slams his sword at the opponent with brutal force.
U-smash: Gaia - The ground splits open, and large rocks launch upwards.
D-smash: Rockfall - The ground splits open around Isaac, and rocks fall into the opening.

F-tilt: Punji - Isaac strikes at the enemy with a bamboo weapon.
U-tilt: Thorn - Quickly launches a small shoot of thorns upwards.
D-tilt: Quake - Causes a light, short earthquake just in front of Isaac.

(I got stuck on aerials. Isaac is a Venus adept, there's not much for him to do in the air, unless he borrows some Jupiter psynergy. I imagine they'd mostly be sword attacks similar to Marth's.)

Grab: Catch - Grabs the opponent and pulls them towards Isaac. The hand remains to hold the opponent until they break out.
Pummel: Isaac swings his sword at the opponent being held by the Catch hand.
Throws: The hand tosses the opponent in the chosen direction.

B: Flint (Venus) - Flint empowers Isaac's sword, allowing him to launch a strong attack. Hold B to charge.
Side-B: Sleet (Mercury) - Sleet appears and blasts ice at the opponent. If it strikes, has a small chance to reduce the victim's damage/launching power.
Up-B: Gust (Jupiter) - Isaac jumps up, and Gust strikes at the opponent with one or two blasts of Jupiter energy. (or should it shoot downwards, like Robin's?)
Down-B: Reflux (Mars) - Counters an attack.

His B moves are all Djinn. Like Djinn in the game, they boost Isaac's stats while they're set, and using them allows you to perform a powerful attack, at the cost of slightly weakening Isaac's normal attacks. When an attack has been used, press its button again to reset the Djinni (after a cooldown of about 20-30 seconds). The exception is Gust, which automatically resets if Isaac is struck while off-stage and in special fall (this is so his recovery doesn't reach Little Mac levels of gimpability).

If you unset all four Djinn, however, you become able to summon either Zagan (B) or Megaera (side B). Being such strong attacks, however, they have high start-up and ending lag, and you leave yourself open to being launched before the attack actually comes out (and since you have all your Djinn unset, you're going to go far). If you successfully get the summon out, all four Djinn go into a cooldown of 30 seconds, after which they automatically reset, one-by-one (about a second or two between each).

Final Smash: Judgement
 

ferioku

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To be honest, I don't think people resent Isaac because "He's just another sword user". They just don't want him in, in favor of their picks! Think about it, we've explained it too many times and people should already know that he's not a generic sword user, especially when he is capable of equipping other weapons too!
 

Skyblade12

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To be honest, I don't think people resent Isaac because "He's just another sword user". They just don't want him in, in favor of their picks! Think about it, we've explained it too many times and people should already know that he's not a generic sword user, especially when he is capable of equipping other weapons too!
I don't quite agree with this. Isaac holds a nearly unique position of having no one against him. K. Rool has his detractors. Banjo and Kazoo have theirs. So do Shovel Knight, Ridley, Ryu, Inkling, etcetera.

I have never met an Isaac detractor. I've met people who don't know him, but I've never met anyone who said "he shouldn't be in Smash".

People may want other characters in more, but I can't think of anyone who denies Isaac's worthiness anymore.
 

N3ON

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I've heard arguments against Isaac on the basis of GS being dead, dying, dormant, or niche.

Plus ofc people who don't really know much about Isaac think he's just another anime character with a sword.
 

ferioku

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I don't quite agree with this. Isaac holds a nearly unique position of having no one against him. K. Rool has his detractors. Banjo and Kazoo have theirs. So do Shovel Knight, Ridley, Ryu, Inkling, etcetera.

I have never met an Isaac detractor. I've met people who don't know him, but I've never met anyone who said "he shouldn't be in Smash".

People may want other characters in more, but I can't think of anyone who denies Isaac's worthiness anymore.
I've seen plenty that don't want him in smash, all over Reddit, YouTube and sometimes even in Smash boards.

Maybe i'm just over exaggerating...:surprised:
 

Falgor

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I don't quite agree with this. Isaac holds a nearly unique position of having no one against him. K. Rool has his detractors. Banjo and Kazoo have theirs. So do Shovel Knight, Ridley, Ryu, Inkling, etcetera.

I have never met an Isaac detractor. I've met people who don't know him, but I've never met anyone who said "he shouldn't be in Smash".

People may want other characters in more, but I can't think of anyone who denies Isaac's worthiness anymore.
I saw people saying they don't want Isaac, but they are far less numerous than for the other popular characters.
Though, their arguments against Isaac are always laughable. Generally they know nothing about Golden Sun but they speak as if they do.:facepalm:
 

BKupa666

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I don't quite agree with this. Isaac holds a nearly unique position of having no one against him. K. Rool has his detractors. Banjo and Kazoo have theirs. So do Shovel Knight, Ridley, Ryu, Inkling, etcetera.

I have never met an Isaac detractor. I've met people who don't know him, but I've never met anyone who said "he shouldn't be in Smash".

People may want other characters in more, but I can't think of anyone who denies Isaac's worthiness anymore.
It's interesting, the runner-up most popular choice never seems to get the sheer amount of vitriol and crap that the frontrunner does. Before release, Ridley got all the flak from the Internet's dirty underbelly, while K. Rool floated by relatively unscathed, only occasionally getting called "irrelevant" or "Bowser clone." Now that the ballot is up, K. Rool has usurped Ridley's former role and is getting tons of crap about being "ugly, fat and bottom tier," while Isaac has usurped K. Rool's former role and is getting comparatively less hate, but also a bit less attention.

And the Golden Duo has usurped K. Roodley as the overall duo to beat, methinks.
 

MagiusNecros

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I've heard arguments against Isaac on the basis of GS being dead, dying, dormant, or niche.

Plus ofc people who don't really know much about Isaac think he's just another anime character with a sword.
I always viewed Duck Hunt as dead and niche yet here we are as a playable character.
 

N3ON

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I always viewed Duck Hunt as dead and niche yet here we are as a playable character.
Even though I don't agree with such detractor's comments, we can't compare a current, or at least recent series like GS to a retro one, the latter are clearly in their own category.

Also, Duck Hunt is hardly niche. That game came packaged with a whole lot of NESs, and the dog is pretty iconic. He's just old.
 

MagiusNecros

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I am just saying the whole thing about not being considered because a franchise has no future is actually a bunch of crap.

Considering Takamaru nearly made the cut.
 

N3ON

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Again, not that I agree with GS being "dead" or whatever, but retros aren't exactly held up to the standards of the rest of the cast.
 

MagiusNecros

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So exceptions are made for the NES Era huh?

Contradiction still stands. But Sakurai has talked out of his ass before so it isn't surprising.
 

Falgor

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Again, not that I agree with GS being "dead" or whatever, but retros aren't exactly held up to the standards of the rest of the cast.
Though, for Takamaru, there's more than the "retro" factor: Sakurai wants to put Takamaru in Smash since Melee.
 
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N3ON

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It's interesting, the runner-up most popular choice never seems to get the sheer amount of vitriol and crap that the frontrunner does. Before release, Ridley got all the flak from the Internet's dirty underbelly, while K. Rool floated by relatively unscathed, only occasionally getting called "irrelevant" or "Bowser clone." Now that the ballot is up, K. Rool has usurped Ridley's former role and is getting tons of crap about being "ugly, fat and bottom tier," while Isaac has usurped K. Rool's former role and is getting comparatively less hate, but also a bit less attention.

And the Golden Duo has usurped K. Roodley as the overall duo to beat, methinks.
It's cool to hate on what's cool.

And you'd know better than I would, because I haven't really been following too closely, but has K. Rool really been getting that much hate? I know his detractors are more vocal and probably numerous than they used to be, but it still seems like nothing compared to the likes of Ridley. Or... like, Geno, back in the Brawl days. Or even characters like Krystal and Waluigi.

Though, for Takamaru, there's more than the "retro" factor: He wants to put Takamaru in Smash since Melee.
But if Takamaru wasn't retro there'd be little chance for a one-off Japan-only character like him. You don't see many people advocating for Welt or Pockle or Aisya (who I'd personally love). Even Captain Rainbow support never amounted to much. Meanwhile retros like Takamaru, Sukapon, Lip, and even Sable have some semblance of support. Him being retro is the only reason he's even plausible.
 
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Falgor

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It's cool to hate on what's cool.

And you'd know better than I would, because I haven't really been following too closely, but has K. Rool really been getting that much hate? I know his detractors are more vocal and probably numerous than they used to be, but it still seems like nothing compared to the likes of Ridley. Or... like, Geno, back in the Brawl days. Or even characters like Krystal and Waluigi.
Yeah, he's not that impopular. There's people disliking K. Rool (I can't really understand why, honestly. The only thing "against" him is that there's series not represented at all that could have a higher priority, for the sake of diversity), but it's pretty much the same that for Isaac: They're just afraid of their popularity, meaning the ones they want in Smash won't make it.

But if Takamaru wasn't retro there'd be little chance for a one-off Japan-only character like him. You don't see many people advocating for Welt or Pockle or Aisya (who I'd personally love). Even Captain Rainbow support never amounted to much. Meanwhile retros like Takamaru, Sukapon, Lip, and even Sable have some semblance of support. Him being retro is the only reason he's even plausible.
I guess that's true: Even for Melee, his game was from 1984. That was already pretty retro in 2000.
And they had less characters to choose from, back then, which could have helped.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Isaac and King K.Rool, I assume. If not, I've just said something stupid.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Jason the Yoshi

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I don't know why I didn't tell you guys earlier, but I went and purchased Golden Sun for my Wii U on the EShop last weekend. I'm enjoying it so far, but I haven't been able to play much of it because of college, and as a matter of fact.....

I'm stuck at a point where I'm trying to move a boulder blocking a fence with psyenergy. Am I going the wrong way or something?
 

Skyblade12

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I don't know why I didn't tell you guys earlier, but I went and purchased Golden Sun for my Wii U on the EShop last weekend. I'm enjoying it so far, but I haven't been able to play much of it because of college, and as a matter of fact.....

I'm stuck at a point where I'm trying to move a boulder blocking a fence with psyenergy. Am I going the wrong way or something?
If you're still in Vale, then yes. You have to come back to that Boulder way later, after you get more Psynergy.
 

BKupa666

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It's cool to hate on what's cool.

And you'd know better than I would, because I haven't really been following too closely, but has K. Rool really been getting that much hate? I know his detractors are more vocal and probably numerous than they used to be, but it still seems like nothing compared to the likes of Ridley. Or... like, Geno, back in the Brawl days. Or even characters like Krystal and Waluigi.
I don't think any character will ever get the sheer amount of hate Ridley did, at least not until their NPC reveal gets dragged out for over a year for no apparent reason. The K. Rool hate is in the same vein as those other examples, where it might not be as overtly loud, but it's the same sort treatment of the character as innately undesirable. "I don't like this character, therefore how can other people possibly like this character?"

Applies to Isaac too, really, albeit I see more of "How can you like this character when my creative bankruptcy leads me to believe that all he does is sword!" with him specifically.

Whoever's running the supporter list, you can add me, if it weren't clear, heh.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Aguki90

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Aguki900
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WHY?

I would like this to be Isaac's victory theme:
All these years play Mario power tennis and now hearing this. I can see why Isaac victory fanfare is the same Victory fanfare in mario power tennis when ou win. THE SAME.

I gonna said this I play power tennis then Golden Sun. After freaking 8 years or more.
Play golden sun, I found out it was the same victory fanfare... Isaac is like always Taunting me or what. My life is a lie.
 

Bebe Mignon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
809
Sooo... I finally bought Golden Sun on the Wii U Virtual Console the other day. I just got out of Vale with Isaac and Garet. The plot seems somewhat simple, but at least interesting enough to push through to the end. Is this game known for having a deep plot, or not? Either way, it is not an issue for me. I'm just curious. :) The battle system is quite different from what I'm used to, though it does vaguely remind me of Pokemon. Then again, I haven't played that many RPGs (I've only played Pokemon, Xenoblade, and maybe FE: Awakening if that counts?) I'm really liking the game so far! :)
 
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