Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[FalKoopa]

Answering sarcasm with sarcasm? Great.

 

[xpnc]

Wow, didn't know people were waiting for the character before the existence of life.

life started 3.5-3.9 billion years ago pal but thanks for playing

 

[Altais]

Uh-oh, looks like this thread needs a Water of Life! Bump!

Anyhow...er...Isaac for Smash 4!!

 

[N3ON]

With Mario Golf delayed into next year, sadly it looks like even longer before the possibility of GS4, let alone an announcement. At this point, I'd be surprised if we heard anything from Camelot past the golf game until... maybe 2015/late 2014. Ofc it they do start development, it could even begin later this year, when Mario Golf is wrapping up, though that's not the most likely. Ofc, probably wishful thinking, but unless they move on to Wii U games after this (which has a very decent chance of not happening - Camelot hasn't attempted a console Nintendo game since the Gamecube), seems like there could be an opening for GS4 which could coincide decently with Isaac's possible inclusion in Smash.

 

[Arteen]

Dark Dawn was disappointing, so I'm hesitant about a sequel. My three biggest issues:

1) The battle system was the exact same as the previous games, and too easy. I like the ideas behind the battle system, but it needs to be completely rebalanced. Only boss battles are interesting. Nearly every other battle can be won mindlessly. Even the bonus bosses were all recycled. I hope the next game will have a fresh take on the battle system.

2) The story went nowhere and was a glorified fetch quest. Supposedly, the game was about stopping the psynergy vortexes, but that never happens. That plotline gets dropped and you spend the rest of the game searching for a feather thanks to Tyrell being an idiot. It's the least exciting premise for an adventure they could possibly think of. Matthew and co end up stopping some evil plot to destroy the world along the way, but it feels incidental.

3) Weyard was too different. I get that the Golden Sun event would change things somewhat, but Angara 2.0 might as well have been a completely different continent. A huge, thriving kingdom of beast people doesn't just pop up out of nowhere in just a few years. I liked the world that Camelot built up in the first two games, so I hope that they put more effort into maintaining a sense of place between the games.

I suspect Camelot rushed the development of Dark Dawn somewhat. They've talked about how the first two games were a "prologue" to the true story, but this can't be what they had in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

Dark Dawn was disappointing, so I'm hesitant about a sequel. My three biggest issues:

1) The battle system was the exact same as the previous games, and too easy. I like the ideas behind the battle system, but it needs to be completely rebalanced. Only boss battles are interesting. Nearly every other battle can be won mindlessly. Even the bonus bosses were all recycled. I hope the next game will have a fresh take on the battle system.

I would've preferred a more modified system, but I wouldn't know how the system would work actually.

2) The story went nowhere and was a glorified fetch quest. Supposedly, the game was about stopping the psynergy vortexes, but that never happens. That plotline gets dropped and you spend the rest of the game searching for a feather thanks to Tyrell being an idiot. It's the least exciting premise for an adventure they could possibly think of. Matthew and co end up stopping some evil plot to destroy the world along the way, but it feels incidental.

And then they head home and realize that the mother of all Psynergy Vortexes had just started. You also don't know what happened exactly to Blados and Chalis, or where the hell the Tuaparang Kingdom is in Weyard. Not to mention the scope of Dark and Light Psynergists, and so many other things. At least with the first Golden Sun, the sequal was in the works when they finished up the first game. They should've understood that a fourth game to explain a lot of elements from ths third would be a few years further in time.

Personally, my interest in the fourth game must begin by explaining where Felix decided to wander off to in a quest of mental and personal redemption, and whether or not he had a child of his own.

3) Weyard was too different. I get that the Golden Sun event would change things somewhat, but Angara 2.0 might as well have been a completely different continent. A huge, thriving kingdom of beast people doesn't just pop up out of nowhere in just a few years. I liked the world that Camelot built up in the first two games, so I hope that they put more effort into maintaining a sense of place between the games.

I suspect Camelot rushed the development of Dark Dawn somewhat. They've talked about how the first two games were a "prologue" to the true story, but this can't be what they had in mind.

I still think they did rush it, and yeah, Angara had too many things that sprung up that you would've actually had passed by in the first Golden Sun, and made you wonder how Isaac missed them. I also would've preferred the opportunity to visit Angaga's metropolis, Kalay.

The only logical thing I can explain about Belinsk was that The Lost Age established some people with beast powers (the werewolves of Garoh), so animals gaining sapience wouldn't be that far off. However, such instances would've at least taken a few generations. That's when the game got really lazy, in my opinion.

But, I'll always love Golden Sun and the day Isaac is revealed will be a happy day for me.

 

[foolssigma]

After going through Golden Sun and GS:TLA for the first time recently, I definitely would like to see Isaac playable in the new smash as well as a new game of sorts on the wii u. Isaac would have a unique moveset and his series is yet to be formally represented in smash outside of a song and an assist trophy. I'm sure this was all previously mentioned though. I've heard people say Isaac cannot be included because he was an AT in Brawl, but a plethora of people want Ridley and he was a boss, so what difference is there in that

 

[N3ON]

After going through Golden Sun and GS:TLA for the first time recently, I definitely would like to see Isaac playable in the new smash as well as a new game of sorts on the wii u. Isaac would have a unique moveset and his series is yet to be formally represented in smash outside of a song and an assist trophy. I'm sure this was all previously mentioned though. I've heard people say Isaac cannot be included because he was an AT in Brawl, but a plethora of people want Ridley and he was a boss, so what difference is there in that

Yeah, anybody who says ATs can't be playable because they were ATs is dumb. Charizard should already prove being an item doesn't stop future potential for playability. Plus I'm guessing Little Mac will be among the next few newcomers shown, which should pretty conclusively end that theory. Good riddance.

 

[foolssigma]

Another good point, did not think of that.. and I have heard really mixed things about Dark Dawn. Since I really enjoyed the first two games then should I give it a go anyway?

 

[N3ON]

Another good point, did not think of that.. and I have heard really mixed things about Dark Dawn. Since I really enjoyed the first two games then should I give it a go anyway?

If you enjoyed the first two I'd still say give it a go, there will probably be elements you like in this one as well, but don't expect the pedigree of the originals.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

With Mario Golf delayed into next year, sadly it looks like even longer before the possibility of GS4, let alone an announcement. At this point, I'd be surprised if we heard anything from Camelot past the golf game until... maybe 2015/late 2014. Ofc it they do start development, it could even begin later this year, when Mario Golf is wrapping up, though that's not the most likely. Ofc, probably wishful thinking, but unless they move on to Wii U games after this (which has a very decent chance of not happening - Camelot hasn't attempted a console Nintendo game since the Gamecube), seems like there could be an opening for GS4 which could coincide decently with Isaac's possible inclusion in Smash.

...

...

...

MARIO GOLF GOT DELAYED?!

Though Mario Golf is almost done, and Camelot is one of the better developers that have worked on two to four, and even sometimes five projects at once. They have 42 people. I'm pretty sure we can see an announcement in 2014.

 

[foolssigma]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll try it out

 

[Maffewt]

em so i dunno if this has been posted anywhere else ITT and to be honest i can't be arsed checkin but i've been fetishing over checking out sales of major smash franchsies for the past 20 minutes or so... Peeps may say sales are irrelevant but Sakurai and co want recognisable characters, and sales charts are the most reliable means of checking how many people know a certain series/character.

And on that note, I think it needs to be pointed out that GS as a series has sold more than Mother, more than Ice Climber, as much as Pikmin (more, excluding the Pikmin Let's Play remakes), more than Kid Icarus, and not too much less than Punch-Out. Also, in spite of having 13 games vs 3, Fire Emblem has sold only roughly twice as much as GS*, with GS' worst-selling game having sold more than all bar 4 FE games, and the first two GS games out-selling every Fire Emblem game a comfortable half a mill each.
Also, the first two GS games sold around twice as much as Xenoblade, and even DD sold nearly as much as it - which is good cuz I would consider Shulk and Isaac somewhat in competition for a slot.

*(same for F-Zero)

mebbe it's just me, but I'd like to think that all bodes well for Isaac.

 

[N3ON]

MARIO GOLF GOT DELAYED?!

Though Mario Golf is almost done, and Camelot is one of the better developers that have worked on two to four, and even sometimes five projects at once. They have 42 people. I'm pretty sure we can see an announcement in 2014.

I dunno, they're always talking about how demanding and time-consuming developing an RPG is, I'd guess at their current size and capacity they'd have the whole team working on it, usually the games they make at the same time work in tandem or are related, like the Mario Golf game for both the Gamecube and the GBA. The earliest I see GS being is in pre-preduction when Mario Golf is wrapping up, which will be later this year, so... it might be possible to have something presentable by the end of 2014... but I wouldn't hold my breath. This is all hypothetical anyway ofc.

em so i dunno if this has been posted anywhere else ITT and to be honest i can't be arsed checkin but i've been fetishing over checking out sales of major smash franchsies for the past 20 minutes or so... Peeps may say sales are irrelevant but Sakurai and co want recognisable characters, and sales charts are the most reliable means of checking how many people know a certain series/character.

And on that note, I think it needs to be pointed out that GS as a series has sold more than Mother, more than Ice Climber, as much as Pikmin (more, excluding the Pikmin Let's Play remakes), more than Kid Icarus, and not too much less than Punch-Out. Also, in spite of having 13 games vs 3, Fire Emblem has sold only roughly twice as much as GS*, with GS' worst-selling game having sold more than all bar 4 FE games, and the first two GS games out-selling every Fire Emblem game a comfortable half a mill each.
Also, the first two GS games sold around twice as much as Xenoblade, and even DD sold nearly as much as it - which is good cuz I would consider Shulk and Isaac somewhat in competition for a slot.

*(same for F-Zero)

mebbe it's just me, but I'd like to think that all bodes well for Isaac.

Yeah, while I agree with the others in that sales don't directly matter, they do gauge audience size and popularity, which does matter. Though it depends where you're getting your sales information, VGChartz misleads people as to how many units GS has actually sold. Not sure what your numbers are, but GS1 sold just over a million copies, and GS2 sold just under a million, with DD only moving a few hundred k, so roughly the series would sit at slightly over two million, which, other than the Punch-Out series (and the series like Wii, Brain Age, Nintendogs, etc.) is the highest remaining series in terms of units. Even though it was a while ago now, people don't seem to realize or remember the impact GS made, it's much larger than Xenoblade (even if Xenoblade was louder due to Rainfall and living in a more connected time), so that definitely does bode well for Isaac.

With these kind of numbers though, GS really should've been made a recurring series like FE or something, instead of Camelot dragging out the wait and diminishing momentum. Oh well, if they time Isaac in SSB4 and GS4 properly, they might be able to regain their original success. Ofc it helps if the game is better than DD was.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I dunno, they're always talking about how demanding and time-consuming developing an RPG is, I'd guess at their current size and capacity they'd have the whole team working on it, usually the games they make at the same time work in tandem or are related, like the Mario Golf game for both the Gamecube and the GBA. The earliest I see GS being is in pre-preduction when Mario Golf is wrapping up, which will be later this year, so... it might be possible to have something presentable by the end of 2014... but I wouldn't hold my breath. This is all hypothetical anyway ofc.

It's much possible to have something earlier. By now, most of the artists are done working on that, so there could be preliminary art within the next one or two months.

It's really hard to pin down when, but I'd say just don't get optimistic or pessimistic. Camelot is a very talented team that never untaps it's potential.

 

[N3ON]

It's much possible to have something earlier. By now, most of the artists are done working on that, so there could be preliminary art within the next one or two months.

It's really hard to pin down when, but I'd say just don't get optimistic or pessimistic. Camelot is a very talented team that never untaps it's potential.

Well ofc, they could announce it as soon as it's finalized, before development even starts, like SSB4. That could even happen later this year, but Nintendo usually likes to reveal some of the game along with the announcement, so I'm guessing to be in a state DD was when it was shown, it wouldn't happen until late next year at the earliest.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well ofc, they could announce it as soon as it's finalized, before development even starts, like SSB4. That could even happen later this year, but Nintendo usually likes to reveal some of the game along with the announcement, so I'm guessing to be in a state DD was when it was shown, it wouldn't happen until late next year at the earliest.

I don't think they'll announce it until next year, but it's very well that ideas have already been thrown around. Camelot is very skilled at pre-development. All of the plot for Lost Age was written when they were still about halfway through with Golden Sun (Something like that) - Did you know that? Yeah.

If it was any other company I would expect less and I'm not expecting too much anyways especially since I don't remember Dark Dawn's reveal, but there's not that much for 3DS looking into 2014. There's Yoshi's Island, Smash Bros, Mario Golf, and Bravely Default so far. It's very possible to get the announcement next year. The question is if they've been or are working on any parts soon, what they're working on.

I guess os we'll find out in the inevitable future.

 

[Arteen]

I took a glance at Camelot's wiki page. All they've done in the last ~15 years is make golf, tennis, and Golden Sun games. Judging by their website, they also make cell phone apps now. Hopefully once they get the requisite 3DS sports games out of the way, they'll have time for another Golden Sun.

 

[jaytalks]

I would prefer Isaac since he had more sales with Golden Sun and TLA, which would mean he is more well known. There was an 8 year gap between games, which really killed the momentum of the series. However, I still want it to comeback because enjoyable turn based RPG's are hard to come by nowadays.

Issac Moveset:
neutral: Djinn set: Random effect between Flint, Sap, Vine and Bane.
forward: Move: hand pushes opponent off flloor.
up: teleport: Teleports any direction.
down: ragnarok: Using psyenerggy, summons earth in to the ground in front of him.

Final Smash:
Judgement: Summons Judgement, who unleashes a huge explosion at the middle of the battlefield.

 

[Arteen]

I think it would be cool if his psychic hand was incorporated in his grabs and throws. He could toss around opponents with his mind, like Mewtwo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only good thing about the Villager thus far is that it makes it much easier to think how Isaac would play and work in Smash. And seeing as the Villager was a recycled / revisited idea from Brawl, and Sakurai noted some AT characters 'didn't quite make it as playable characters', plus the Golden Sun music on a totally unfitting stage (Norfair, like... wat?) and Wii Fit Trainer also being from a series represented in Brawl without a character (Wii series) I think it's very likely we'll see Isaac for Golden Sun.

Am pretty damn hyped for him!

 

[jaytalks]

There's also a few tricks from Dark Dawn they could use. I personally find Slap to be a hilarious move to use in Smash and I would love to see that as a special attack.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Slap sounds funny, but I never played Dark Dawn. And I actually would want Isaac to have Earth inspired Psynergy specials. Pound, Move and Slap could perhaps work as Smash Attacks though?

 

[shinhed-echi]

If we get a clone character to fill up roster space at the last minute, which do you think would be most likely? / Who would you want?

To me the Golden Sun priority list would go like so:

Isaac (main protagonist, big role on 2-3 games (haven't finished DD, please refrain from spoiling)
Matthew (new protagonist, might be more recognizeable to newer players).
Jenna (was playable in both GBA Golden Suns, most iconic female representative)
Felix (Anti-hero to Hero, important role in 2 games that I know of (don't know about DD)
Alex (villain)

Then comes the rest.

I'd personally love for JENNA to appear after Isaac if Sakurai had to resort to clone characters to beef up the roster at the last second. Who would you choose?

 

[FalKoopa]

If we get a clone character to fill up roster space at the last minute, which do you think would be most likely? / Who would you want?

To be honest, a 45-50 character roster doesn't need to be beefed up.

But still, I'll choose Ivan. He's my favourite party member in the first GS.

 

[shinhed-echi]

To be honest, a 45-50 character roster doesn't need to be beefed up.

But still, I'll choose Ivan. He's my favourite party member in the first GS.

lol Yeah, Ivan definitely provided some fun moments in GS, especially with the Mind Read ability (at least to me). Wonder if we'd get some funny "Codec" moments out of this if he were included.

On Bowser:
"Heh, looks like a puny nerdy kid, this won't take long"

On Wii Fit Trainer:
"Reading is nice, but a body needs education as well. I'll whip this one into perfect shape."

On Mega Man:
"............................" (he's a machine) XD

 

[jaytalks]

Depends on who they add out of the protagonists:
Isaac: Felix would make a great clone, and Sheba would be interesting to see with her wind based powers. I would pick a GS Rep and TLA Rep.
Matthew: Sveta is such a cool character visually and I like her style of fighting. I imagine she would be a clone of Captain Falcon if she had to be a clone.

But if I could pick anyone from both generations, it would be Isaac and Sveta.

 

[FalKoopa]

lol Yeah, Ivan definitely provided some fun moments in GS, especially with the Mind Read ability (at least to me). Wonder if we'd get some funny "Codec" moments out of this if he were included.

On Bowser:
"Heh, looks like a puny nerdy kid, this won't take long"

On Wii Fit Trainer:
"Reading is nice, but a body needs education as well. I'll whip this one into perfect shape."

On Mega Man:
"............................" (he's a machine) XD

Lol, I never thought of this. That would seriously be awesome.

 

[Arteen]

Felix is the only character that would work as a clone (or Matthew, but having both young Matthew and young Isaac would be a bit weird).

For non-clone roster editions, Alex is my top choice. Then Sveta. Jenna would be cool too.

 

[Altais]

Assuming we did get a second Golden Sun representative, I definitely would want it to be Felix. Though he is not necessarily mine favourite character (mine favourite character in Golden Sun 1 & 2 is Hama), I do like his design. That, and I do see him as the most likely choice for a second representative (assuming we had Isaac and not Matthew), as he is the main protagonist of the second game in the series.

Also, Felix would not necessarily have to be a clone of Isaac. Given the many options Golden Sun offers, Felix could have entirely different moves from Isaac and overall a different play style. For instance, while Isaac could use rocks in his smash attacks, Felix could use thorny vines. They could also incorporate Djinn into their attacks--for instance, while Isaac could have Flint as his standard special, Felix could have Echo. And while Isaac could use Astral Blast as his side special, Felix could use Stone Justice. The only moves they could have in common are their upward special and downward special (Planet Diver and Earthquake, respectively), and maybe their Final Smash.

I remember posting an Isaac moveset in here somewhere. Maybe I will rewrite it and write one for Felix as well.

 

[kikaru]

One could use Psynergy from the Squire-->Slayer class line while the other could have access to Psynergy from other, mixed classes.
Though my preferences would lean towards Alex as a second playable character as he seems to have had a role throughout all three games.

 

[Sharkarat]

I think I mentioned it earlier, but my choice for second Golden Sun character would be Sveta.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'd want the Fusion Dragon to be a boss fight. That would be really sick honestly. As for another character after Isaac's possible confirmation....I'm not sure really. I would suggest either Garet, Jenna, Ivan, Felix, or Mia. Seeing as they have the closest connections to Isaac. Well, Matt would have close ties to Isaac too as he is Isaac's son, but since he looks a lot like his father, so that would be a bit confusing in a fight honestly. I don't know any characters in Dark Dawn aside from Matt so I don't know if there's any characters that could have unique fighting styles.

 

[kikaru]

If we see both Matthew and Isaac then by default I believe Isaac would have to appear in his older form to prevent confusion/ exert his manly facial hair.

 

[jaytalks]

I'd want the Fusion Dragon to be a boss fight. That would be really sick honestly. As for another character after Isaac's possible confirmation....I'm not sure really. I would suggest either Garet, Jenna, Ivan, Felix, or Mia. Seeing as they have the closest connections to Isaac. Well, Matt would have close ties to Isaac too as he is Isaac's son, but since he looks a lot like his father, so that would be a bit confusing in a fight honestly. I don't know any characters in Dark Dawn aside from Matt so I don't know if there's any characters that could have unique fighting styles.

Sveta has the most unique style in Golden Sun, as she fights with her claws and knuckles. This would also allow her to be a clone of someone who uses their fists. Visually she's very different since she's a beastman. And she has a beast form, which would make a great final smash. Actually, if Isaac or Matthew makes it in, she would be my vote for an AT.

 

[Knight Dude]

Sveta has the most unique style in Golden Sun, as she fights with her claws and knuckles. This would also allow her to be a clone of someone who uses their fists. Visually she's very different since she's a beastman. And she has a beast form, which would make a great final smash. Actually, if Isaac or Matthew makes it in, she would be my vote for an AT.
View attachment 1039

Interesting. But why would she be a clone of another character? If she's as unique as you say, then she would have her own moveset right? But the beast form could work nice as a Wario style transformation Final Smash.

@Kikaru, Yeah. Older Isaac would wreck house with his trusty beard.

 

[jaytalks]

Interesting. But why would she be a clone of another character? If she's as unique as you say, then she would have her own moveset right? But the beast form could work nice as a Wario style transformation Final Smash.

@Kikaru, Yeah. Older Isaac would wreck house with his trusty beard.

I am guessing that a second Golden Sun character would be pushing, so the only way they could make it into development as a clone. I would of course prefer her to be her own character.

Yeah I was thinking something like Wario's.

 

[Sinn]

I'd have to vote for either Sheba or Sveta as a second rep too. I thought Sheba was awesome. Love her to this day. And Sveta does seem to be one of the most unique characters in terms of what she can do.

 

[Knight Dude]

I am guessing that a second Golden Sun character would be pushing, so the only way they could make it into development as a clone. I would of course prefer her to be her own character.

Yeah I was thinking something like Wario's.

Ah, Ok. I can understand that sentiment. But I still would think that a character like that, an animal-like person hasn't really been done much in Smash. Well I guess you could say that the Starfox characters are like that. But the only one that really fights like an animal is Wolf. So Sveta would have some breathing room for her possible fighting style. And if we had to have someone added that would be a clone, then my vote would go to say, Felix or Matthew(with Isaac being seen with his older, bearded incarnation. If Matt was the one chosen, that is.)

 

[shinhed-echi]

If for example my clone-pick, Jenna, made it in, she'd play like Isaac but with fire effects to her attacks (like Roy). Her psyenergy would on the other hand be similar in effect, but with fire animations (and burning/curry effects)

She'd be the lighter-faster-weaker version as well. But a great damage racker.

Reasons for me choosing Jenna:
-Part of your first party in GS1.
-Has solo segments in GS2
--Has her own Battle song.
-I find her to be in the hardest position of all characters of GS. But the way she remains so strong makes her my favorite female character in the series (so far)