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Legend of Zelda Is WW Ganondorf really evil?

MuraRengan

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For the longest time, in the Zelda series, Ganondorf has played the villain. However, in nearly all his games he is seen as just your average maniacal villian bent on domination of Hyrule. He's never really much had a personality or a good motive for wanting to take over Hyrule, which would make him a pretty boring villain. But, recently I started thinking about the Windwaker Ganon, and I realized that this version of Ganon sheds a lot of light on Ganon's life, personality, and his motive for wanting to take over Hyrule (well only in the linear story starting from OoT to Phantom Hourglass) and if you actually examine his words in two speeches given in Windwaker, it kinda hints that he actually had a good motive behind his ambitions.

Ok, lets first look at this speech given shortly before the last boss fight. Ganon has kidnapped Zelda/Tetra, and she is under a sleeping spell. Ganon has read her dreams.

Do you sleep still? Wait! Do not be so hasty, boy... I can see this girl's dreams... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans as far as the eye can see. They are vast seas... None can swim across them... They yield no fish to catch... What did the King of Hyrule say?... That the gods sealed Hyrule away? And they left behind people who would one day awaken Hyrule? How ridiculous... So many pathetic creatures, scattered across a handful of islands, drifting on this sea like fallen leaves on a forgotten pool... What they can possibly hope to achieve? Don't you see? All of you... Your gods destroyed you!

First of all, you need to know that this game goes on in the distant future from OoT, the game makes this clear many times in the initial telling of the Legend that this Ganon is the same Ganon that Link defeated and sent to the Sacred Realm and specifically when you meet the King of Red Lions. Now, imagine being in Ganondorf's shoes. He was sent to the Sacred Realm by the seven sages. At this time, the kingdom of Hyrule still existed. However, now the entire land of Hyrule is not sunken under the ocean, and now on the above ground, civilization exists on only scattered islands. The islands are small and inhabit only a handful of people each and the ocean is very vast, meaning not much travel. Now, we don't know exactly when Ganon escaped from the Sacred Realm, but it was probably long after Hyrule was sunken by the gods. Clearly expressed in this quote, Ganon does not like the new world, he feels that civilization's progress is inhibited by the endless oceans and the small communities living on simple islands. He clearly prefers the old Hyrule.

Also, you can see from this note that Ganon is not overly bent to destruction. When Link first approaches him, he tells him to wait, and not to be hasty so that he won't awaken Zelda. First of all, it's amazing that Zelda's still alive, because Ganon makes it perfectly clear in a later quote that he could've simply killed both of them and taken the triforce. But the fact that he didn't means that in resurrecting the old Hyrule, he's not thinking only of himself, he's thinking of all the people, and even of Zelda and Link. So he clearly thinks that reviving the old Hyrule would be a change for the better for everyone, and considering his consideration for his enemies, he probably wasn't that bad of a guy.

Now, on to the next quote. In this one, Ganon sheds light not only on his ambitions, but on his experiences with his country way back in the OoT timezone.

My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.

Ok, for me, when I first read this quote, I thought the reference to "my country" was a reference to Hyrule, because I just didn't think hard enough. Ganon is making a comparison to another country, the one the he was the king of: Gerudo Valley. Recall, people who've played OoT, that Gerudo Valley was in a desert, to this must be the counrty that Ganon was talking about in the beginning of the quote. In OoT, it is said that Ganondorf is the King of the Gerudos. In the game itself, you may not understand how literal thia statement was. Ganon actually WAS a king who ruled over a country. So all this time the villain Link's been fighting is royalty. But one must wonder why a king would turn to evil, in the game OoT the Gerudos are not evil, ony Ganon is. If we look to the quote, we see that Gerudo Valley was not a very prosperous place to live. A "burning wind" shows that the days in the desert were unbearably hot and dry. A "frigid gale" shows that the nights were unbearably cold. Now notice the context in the real world, all of our deserts have hot dry days, and severly cold nights, so in making this game the script writers really did a good job of using a minor feature from OoT, Gerudo Desert, made years before Windwaker, to give Ganon some history and a reason to want to take over Hyrule. Also, in this quote Ganon emphasized that these unbearable conditions brought death to many of the inhabitants of Gerudo Valley. So Ganon's subjects, the people that he ruled over, were dieing, and he, as the king, had to do something. Ganon also reflects on how the winds of Hyrule did not bring death, and he states how he coveted that wind. So, Ganon's entire plan to take over Hyrule was devised because he wanted to save the people of his country from death. While this may be an extreme means of doing so, it shows that Ganon had genuine love and concern for his people, so his mindset wasn't evil at all, however; his actions, in relation to the people of Hyrule, were. But there was not much else he could do to save his people, and it was his kingly duty to try to save his people, so his only choice was to take over Hyrule, or die. And, in all truth, I can't say that I blame him.

Now lets examine Ganon's motive in Windwaker. We have the entire notion that Ganon dislikes that endless ocean that now replaces Hyrule. He knows that though the people may be content, if he were to bring back Hyrule that the people's lives would be much better. He feels this way because he remembers how prosperous the land of Hyrule was back when it was still at the surface. However, his ambition would change everyone's lives very drastically. Currently, water covers 98% of the entire world, and he intends to remove all of it. That's a BIG change, which is probably the only thing wrong with his plan. This kind of change would destroy people's entire way of life, however, the game itself never mentions this. All in all, Ganon's motive is justified in my eyes, he didn't intend on killing anyone, and was thinking of the entire world in his goal. However, some could see him as someone stuck in the past, for holding on to a centuries' old ambition that has already failed once, but really, how interesting can life BE on an island. Inevitably, I think the resurrection of Hyrule would've been for the best for everyone.
 

Raziek

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I really enjoyed this post. It's been a while since I played Windwaker, but he never did strike me as all that evil in that game.

I think most of what you say is true, but I'm left confused about why he did not choose to attempt co-operation with Link and Zelda, and they just ended up fighting. Could we argue this to be the fault of the "heroes"? I personally feel like Ganon built himself the wrong image out of desperation, in Wind Waker. Until we actually fight him, all we know about him is that he's been kidnapping random girls in a mad search to find Zelda.

Given this alternate look at his motives, I'd argue that he was painted as evil by mistake, not by his intentions.

Awesome post. :D
 

Kingdom Come

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First of all, you need to know that this game goes on in the distant future from OoT, the game makes this clear many times in the initial telling of the Legend that this Ganon is the same Ganon that Link defeated and sent to the Sacred Realm and specifically when you meet the King of Red Lions. Now, imagine being in Ganondorf's shoes. He was sent to the Sacred Realm by the seven sages. At this time, the kingdom of Hyrule still existed. However, now the entire land of Hyrule is now sunken under the ocean, and now on the above ground, civilization exists on only scattered islands. The islands are small and inhabit only a handful of people each and the ocean is very vast, meaning not much travel. Now, we don't know exactly when Ganon escaped from the Sacred Realm, but it was probably long after Hyrule was sunken by the gods. Clearly expressed in this quote, Ganon does not like the new world, he feels that civilization's progress is inhibited by the endless oceans and the small communities living on simple islands. He clearly prefers the old Hyrule.
Incorrect...

What had happened was, and this is explained at the very beginning of the game. Ganon escaped the sacred realm and they were all hoping for the Hero of Time to come and save them since nobody else could stop him. He never came and the Goddesses were forced to flood Hyrule.
 

MuraRengan

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Incorrect...

What had happened was, and this is explained at the very beginning of the game. Ganon escaped the sacred realm and they were all hoping for the Hero of Time to come and save them since nobody else could stop him. He never came and the Goddesses were forced to flood Hyrule.
Oh, you're right. I'd never made that connection because the legend never says directly that the goddesses flooded hyrule.

That does throw a fork in the whole theory, but the bulk of the idea is still very plausible.
 

Rumikun

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No, keep going. Theory is fun because it can take any direction so long as it is feasible.

The goddesses themselves are never properly explained either. What if they are whimsical and chaotic and created out of some unnamed sense of curiosity? While the Triforce may break into pieces upon the presence of evil, the game never really defines "evil" in the first place. It could be that the Triforce rejects Ganon based on the preferences of the goddesses and that the Sages simply don't know that and instead present an unsupported and unproven generalization. Much of the lore in the series is largely unexplained in terms of motive as is. It is entirely possible that the goddesses prevent Ganon from saving the Gerudo lands and later Hyrule for their own devices.
 

Kingdom Come

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Oh, you're right. I'd never made that connection because the legend never says directly that the goddesses flooded hyrule.

That does throw a fork in the whole theory, but the bulk of the idea is still very plausible.
Don't get me wrong it is a great read. And, the way Ganon was displayed made me feel very sympathetic for his actions. Great Story WW was.
 

DondonSF

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I haven't played WW in a while so I may be off but to me it just seems like Ganondorf,no matter how good his intentions are,wouldn't be able to ask anyone for help because he's been marked as the ultimate evil by everyone and must be defeated.in comparison to the damage he did in OoT im positive he could have done it in WW,but he chose not to because that wasn't what his goal was.but thats just my thoughts.
 

finalark

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You more or less summed up my thoughts on Wind Waker Gannon. I personally consider him a well-intended extreamist.
 

Jam Stunna

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I think that Gdorf is more sympathetic in Wind Waker, but he's definitely still evil. The OP attributes Ganon's actions to a desire to help others that is never demonstrated in the game. He says that his land was filled with death, but never does he explicitly say that he wants to help or save his people. Never does he explicitly say that the oceans inhibit progress. He makes the comment about the gods to point out the irony of the gods saving Hyrule by essentially destroying it.

Ganon wants to rule Hyrule, not help it. When he touches the Triforce, he says, "Give Hyrule to me!" This is the same selfish, malevolent Ganondorf, even if he has been made more complex. This is my favorite Ganon by far, but he's still very much a villain.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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Hard to say for me. I see him as a villain with a small conscience. Where as, I'm just now playing OoT (I've never really beaten it until now), the Ganondorf there is a evil beast. He was cynical and killed anyone who was in his path bar-Link/Zelda of course.

I'd say that the OoT Ganondorf is better to me because I love cynicism (I'm new to OoT though), but WW had the best Zelda storyline ever. Actually, if Windwaker had Master Quest's difficulty it'd be the best game ever. WW was just too easy.

Anyways back on topic, overall he is evil, but more or less evil than his previous versions, and a good read that was :D.
 

MuraRengan

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I think that Gdorf is more sympathetic in Wind Waker, but he's definitely still evil. The OP attributes Ganon's actions to a desire to help others that is never demonstrated in the game. He says that his land was filled with death, but never does he explicitly say that he wants to help or save his people. Never does he explicitly say that the oceans inhibit progress. He makes the comment about the gods to point out the irony of the gods saving Hyrule by essentially destroying it.

Ganon wants to rule Hyrule, not help it. When he touches the Triforce, he says, "Give Hyrule to me!" This is the same selfish, malevolent Ganondorf, even if he has been made more complex. This is my favorite Ganon by far, but he's still very much a villain.
I wouldn't be so quick to call Ganondorf's power hunger selfishness. As I said in the post, with Ganon being a king, he had a duty to his people to do his best for them. Gerudo Valley is certainly not one of the best places to live, as Ganon illustrated, and taking over Hyrule would give his people a better life. And I think that the helping of his people is what he was trying to do in the beginning of OoT, when Link and Zelda were spying on him from the garden.

Recall what Ganon did, upon entering the room, he bent his knee before the King of Hyrule. Why would a king bow to another king? Assuming they're equals, there should be no gestures of acknowledgement of power. However, as I recently realized, they're not the same. I took a closer look at the map of Hyrule and realized that all the lands in it are a part of Hyrule. This means that Death Mountain, Zora's Domain, Kokiri Forest, and Gerudo Valley are all a part of Hyrule, and thus the King of Hyrule is a higher power than that of each of those areas respective rulers, including Ganon.

If so, then why was Ganon there in the first place? (This part is a stretch)As far as we know, the other rulers don't need to make too many trips to see the king. However, those areas are relatively prosperous. Gerudo Valley isn't, and it shoudl be the King of Hyrule's duty to help his subjects. Perhaps Ganondorf was seeign the king on a plea concerning the wellbeing of his people.

However, the Gerudo are considered to be a race of theives, and the game shows that they have less than respect for Hyrule. Recall that in both Zora's Domain and Goron Citythey pay much respect to the Royal Family, opening doors and such when the identifying song is played. But upon visit to Geridu Valley, we're met with a gate yeilding no access, and people who cross it are thrown in jail. It's quite likely that the Gerudo were at odds with the King, and for that reason the king was less than willing to help them. Perhaps what we saw was Ganondorf making an honest attempt to better the lives of his people, and when he was denied, he took matters into his own hands.

Also, consider this: Why are the Gerudo thieves? Do you see anything of value in Gerudo Valley? PErhaps they became miserable criminals because of their living conditions. When it's hot, it's really hot, when it's cold, it's really cold. They live in a wasteland, no vegetation, little water, nothing nice to look at, nothing to look forward to. Perhaps they're criminals because they literally have nothing to be happy about and need some joy in their lives. This, I think, is Ganon's plea to the King: to get the Gerudo some land out of the desert. However what king would want to better the lives of theives? In Ganon's eyes, moving would make their lives better because they won't have to be criminals because they'll finally have a chance at genuine happiness. But in the King's eyes, they're a hazard which deserves no comfort. And perhaps the King thinks Ganon is evil because he is a Gerudo, and the Gerudo are evil.

------------------

However, in the same note, it's a lot more likely that Ganondorf is just another product of Gerudo hardships, growing up with nothing in inhuman living conditions, wanting to take over Hyrule to undo the horrible upbringing he had.
 

Ganonsburg

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Or, the Gerudo live in the desert because as thieves, people are less likely to follow a band of thieves to a desert fortress where most people will die from the harsh conditions than they are to follow a band of thieves to a lush, open pasture. Think of the 40 thieves, haha. I bet before they tried the desert, they had tried the forest where people were to scared to go, but they found that even they couldn't tough it out there (I'm thinking LotR here).

I've considered the possibility of Ganon being partly good, or good in intentions, but it doesn't fit. I think Ganon bowing was his way of sucking up to the king as he tried to locate the Triforce. Speaking of which, if he just wanted to help his people, why did he go and get the Triforce? He wouldn't need it if he was simply negotiating (unless he hoped for wisdom, which brings us toooo....). Why didn't he get the Triforce of Courage or Wisdom if he had such peaceful intentions? He was looking for power, that's all.

Also, in Wind Waker, he asks for Hyrule. He doesn't want his people back, or for his people to be prosperous, etc; he asks for all of Hyrule. So I doubt it was good intentions that he had in the beginning. In fact, he said he coveted the wind. It could be he coveted the Hylian's wind because it brought prosperity, but it may also be that he simply coveted the wind for the wide variety of power it had over everyone.

I wonder if there are Japanese translations of Ganon's speech out there? I'd love to see them and see what the Japanese version says/implies.

:034:
 

MuraRengan

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IIRC, aren't people born with the Triforce in them? I guess I never really knew how Link, Zelda, and Ganon got their parts, but I could've sworn that it was somethignt hey had from birth. At what point did Ganon get to choose what piece of the Triforce he could've had?

Also, I implied that negotiating with the King was out of the question because the King probably wouldn't want anyhtign to do with a band of thieves.
 

X1-12

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IIRC, aren't people born with the Triforce in them? I guess I never really knew how Link, Zelda, and Ganon got their parts, but I could've sworn that it was somethignt hey had from birth. At what point did Ganon get to choose what piece of the Triforce he could've had?

Also, I implied that negotiating with the King was out of the question because the King probably wouldn't want anyhtign to do with a band of thieves.
If the Triforce is split, its three parts begin to appear in the three people who epitomise their role (Zelda = wisdom, Link = courage, Ganondorf = power) so they have no real choice over which piece they get (if any) (this is said in OoT)

Also there's lots of things in OoT that suggest Ganon is evil (and we are assuming they're the same being)..

1.) Zelda's dream/prophecy shows Ganon as a dark cloud (ambiguous I know)
2.) Nabooru says he's evil multiple times, moving away from the corny 'honour thieves' business which she claims they used to be
3.) Ganon constantly taunts link, in the forest temple after beating Phantom Ganon he does saying you (link) will never beat the real him etc..
4.) Ganon is very cruel to several people including Twinrova when they fail him, And killing peons when they fail is typical of evil villains
 

MuraRengan

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If the Triforce is split, its three parts begin to appear in the three people who epitomise their role (Zelda = wisdom, Link = courage, Ganondorf = power) so they have no real choice over which piece they get (if any) (this is said in OoT)

Also there's lots of things in OoT that suggest Ganon is evil (and we are assuming they're the same being)..

1.) Zelda's dream/prophecy shows Ganon as a dark cloud (ambiguous I know)
2.) Nabooru says he's evil multiple times, moving away from the corny 'honour thieves' business which she claims they used to be
3.) Ganon constantly taunts link, in the forest temple after beating Phantom Ganon he does saying you (link) will never beat the real him etc..
4.) Ganon is very cruel to several people including Twinrova when they fail him, And killing peons when they fail is typical of evil villains
True, he probably is evil in OoT. WW just kinda tried to make him see more rounded.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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^ Well if they make Ganondorf the exact same every time, it'd get boring. They probably did that in Windwaker to make things different, I mean WW was fairly different from all the other titles. Infact, the ToonLink games offer random varieties of locomotion.
 

Ganonsburg

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Yeah, but WW Ganon = OoT Ganon. He's just as evil in WW, it's just that he's more out for revenge than anything. He only seems nice because he's insane and decided to put on a crying crocodile act for Link.

We also know he's evil in OoT because he brought ailment on the Deku Tree, threatened the Gorons' main "crop," and hurt Lord Jabu Jabu so that he could get the sacred stones, which he would use to get the triforce. Why would he do that in the name of peace? He wouldn't. If anything, he'd try to help the other groups so then they'd be inclined to help Ganon when Ganon needed help convincing the king to let the Gerudos have a piece of nice land.

:034:
 

Ryu Shimazu

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Technically, no one is evil if you think about it. An evil person never sees himself as evil, they understand their motives and defend them. <.< But that kind of debate isn't worth the effort.
 

Charmander

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I think he wasnt originally evil, but after Gaining the triforce of power, he had too little control over it, and got out of hand. After seven years he became obseesed with power.

In ocarina of time, after beating ganondorf (human) Zelda says
" Ganondorf, pitiful man. Without a strong heart he could not control the triforce of power..."

Zelda only saw the vision of ganondorf because using the triforce of wisdom, she obtain information on the grim future. There is a great possibility that the bond between the three triforces allowed the dream to somehow be transfered to link.
But meh, there is my two cents :p
 

MuraRengan

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Charmander makes a very good pooint about the triforce of power.

He only seems nice because he's insane and decided to put on a crying crocodile act for Link.
I doubt this is try. First of all, why would he need to? He's already got Zelda hostage, and he's not shy about his won power. Why would he try to get the sympathy of a child when he's trying to take over the world. In WW, he even tells Link and Zelda that he won't kill them. He clearly wants them to see the "glory" of Hyrule's return.

I think that Hyrule's flooding affected him psychologically, posible enabling him to better control the triforce of power. But that's a very outlandish theory, nothing I can support it with other than Ganon's demeanor.
 

Ganonsburg

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By crying crocodile, I was referring to how they'll "cry," and sometimes that'll put people unawares and make them think it's sad when really, it has completely different intentions. In this case, Ganon was probably just putting Link off-guard so it would be easier to attack him. And my point remains, he wanted Hyrule for himself, rather than for his people to return or be prosperous.

If he wasn't originally evil, why did he hurt the various tribes? He still attacked the Kokiri, Gorons, and Zora along with the Deku Tree and Lord Jabu Jabu. And this was before Link opened the Temple of Time, so it was before Ganon got the ToP (or Zelda the ToW, so she didn't get the vision because of that, while I'm at it. She also couldn't have transferred it to Link via the Triforces because Link didn't have the ToC. Nobody had any part of the Triforce until Link opened the door in the Temple of Time). Why did he kill the Hyrule Guards? He obviously had evil intentions from the beginning.

And the point about Nabooru that was mentioned also still stands. Ganon disgraced the Gerudos before he even left to "negotiate" with the King of Hyrule. He brought their honorable (as she called it) lifestyle dishonor and broke their culture. Also, Twinrova (Ganon's surrogate mothers and also his followers) captured Nabooru and pretty much enslaved her. Why would they do that if they were trying to help the Gerudo? If they were going to change the culture to help the Gerudo, why not change it from thievery to some kind of business or something? No, they changed it from bad to worse.

Ganon was most certainly evil in OoT. In WW, just outright insane in addition to evil.

Also, have you played OoT, or do you know the story? You seem to be arguing off of very little, at least for the OoT portion.

:034:
 

MuraRengan

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I've played through OoT at least 8 times dude. And this isn't an argument (at least I'm not arguing) just a discussion of what could be.

Also, if Ganon were attempting a coup of the throne, he'd definitely need to do something about the areas loyal to the King, I.E. the Kokiri, Gorons, and Zora. Perhaps the attacks on thier lands were to ensure that they wouldn't come to the King's aid.

Also I still doubt the crocodile tears part. It just doesn't seem like Ganon's style. But I see your point.
 

Kingdom Come

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All the Gerudos hated Ganondorf. Just saying. But, I still think we are over analyzing this as is usually the case. And, I don't remember Ganon abusing Twinrova. Unless that was in Oracles.
 

Ganonsburg

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I've played through OoT at least 8 times dude. And this isn't an argument (at least I'm not arguing) just a discussion of what could be.
Just wondering; you seem to be forgetting key points (Ganon finding the Triforce rather than being born with it is rather huge).

As for the tears, I'm just countering your hypothetical point with mine. We've known Ganon to be deceptive, and such behavior falls in line with that.

Kingdom, I didn't say Ganon abused Twinrova, just that they were his followers. Unless someone else brought it up?

If Ganon were trying to help out his people, and eventually everyone as you propose, why would he hurt everyone including his people and the neighboring peoples? And then again in WW? He sent his minions to kill the sages in WW, to harass the guardian spirits of the tribes (if you're helping someone out, don't hurt the people who are already helping those people), steal the children of the people he wants to help, and so on? For every ounce of kindness and humaneness he almost shows, he drops a ton of villainy.

:034:
 

comboking

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Ganon felt separated in Gerudo Valley so he wanted to gain control of Hyrule. He was mad that everyone had to feel isolated like him in Gerudo Valley and the Sacred Realm. That makes sense.
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

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I wouldn't be so quick to call Hitler's power hunger selfishness. As I said in the post, with Hitler being a king, he had a duty to his people to do his best for them. Germany is certainly not one of the best places to live, as Hitler illustrated in Mein Kampf, and taking over Europe would give his people a better life. And I think that the helping of his people is what he was trying to do in the beginning of The 30s, when the rest of the world tried to restrict Germany so heavily via the Treaty of Versailles.
Yeah, so, now that one of the worst people to ever existed has been replaced with your "theory", how does this sound?

Ganon is evil. Don't try and make him look like a *****. End of story.
 

Ganonsburg

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Yeah, so, now that one of the worst people to ever existed has been replaced with your "theory", how does this sound?

Ganon is evil. Don't try and make him look like a *****. End of story.
Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. But it's still a good comparison, haha. Although there are people who would try to argue for Hitler.

:034:
 

Dre89

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Dre4789
Just a quick question-

The dying guard says that Ganondorf's men killed all the guards, but who are Ganondorf's men supposed to be if there's only one male gerudo every one hundred years?

I'm not really into this stuff but I wanted to know if there was an explanation of this.
 

MuraRengan

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Yeah, so, now that one of the worst people to ever existed has been replaced with your "theory", how does this sound?

Ganon is evil. Don't try and make him look like a *****. End of story.
Hitler was evil for completely different reasons than Ganondorf. Conquest is a natural part of history and expansion, even the early U.S. was founded on the same principles of taking land from other people to use for its own people. I guess that makes the pilgrims evil too.

Hitler was a maniacal, misguided eugenist. His conquest of other lands wasn't evil, but killing off jews was. You act as if anyone who uses conquest to make better living conditions for their people is evil, and your association to Hitler was completely off base because you didn't connect what made Hitler evil to what makes Ganon evil. Your whole rewording of my theory was a huge strawman and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Either way, I've already stopped discussing this because Ganonsburg's earlier points have convinced me otherwise.
 

*JuriHan*

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He didn't seem evil to me at all. I was like"wtf am i fighting u" at the end. I guess he did kidnap Zelda tho, that aint nice.
 

Chico113

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Yes he is evil. beating up little kids XD JK but he was kind of "quiet"

but why did he attack Toon Link and Zelda at the end?
 

Fire!

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"I have nothing against Ganon. He is part of the Triforce, and one of the most ****** villains Nintendo’s ever made. That being said, I believe Ganon is overused. MM is the only home console Zelda game that had nothing to do with Ganon. Not only that, but really, how evil is Ganon? I don’t think he’s too evil at all. In both ALttP and OoT he allowed people to continue to live in Kakariko Village after he had taken control of the land. Had Ganon truly been the King of Evil, he would have ruthlessly hunted down and killed every last citizen. But that’s not how Ganon is. He wants to rule, and he needs subjects to be the ruler of. Majora’s Mask (the entity) is different. Majora’s Mask is pure evil, and only cares about killing people and inflicting pain. Not only is Majora’s Mask more evil than Ganon, but it is also arguably more powerful. It had the power to pull the moon from orbit, and send it crashing into Termina, which would have killed every living thing."

http://www.nintendojo.com/features/editorials/why-majoras-mask-is-better-than-ocarina-of-time
 

Ganonsburg

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You can't make people's lives miserable if they're all dead. Anyway, I think he was still trying to get the full triforce, so he really didn't care about the citizens who ran away. I agree that MM is pretty evil, but Ganon's way of evil and MM's way of evil are two different flavors of evil and can't really be compared. Ganon has a goal in his evil, and it's to continue his evil rule. MM just wants to kill everything (evil), but after everything is dead there's really no evil, so his evil stops there.

So think of it as a conservation of energy kind of thing. Except instead of energy, it's evil. Both villains have the same total evil, but Ganon lets it out slower so that he has it longer, while MM lets it all out at once.

:034:
 

Lore

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Ganon in WW is still evil, but he's developed since OoT.

Think about it. He was completely evil and selfish in OoT, but after being sealed in the sacred realm, etc, he was completely alone. He had nothing else to do, so he thought about WHY he was so selfish.

He told Link and Zelda about his motivations because, being the only other people with the triforce, they would understand and appreciate his story. This event was probably the only time that Ganon ever told anyone this much about, and he did it with them because even though they are new people, he sees Link and Zelda as old "acquaintances" who have known him for a long time.

He didn't kill them right away because he's matured as a villain. He's realized that he doesn't have to kill everyone, he just has to control them. He didn't see Link or Zelda as a threat, so he simply let them live.

Yes he is evil. beating up little kids XD JK but he was kind of "quiet"

but why did he attack Toon Link and Zelda at the end?
He was really pissed off at that point. He had nothing left to live for and could see his end rapidly approaching, so he decided to go out with a bang and defeat his two greatest enemies.
 

firelord767

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This is an interesting theroy, i'll give it that. A lot of hard work probably went into this. But it should also be said that no matter what happens in this thread, if we hear about ganon being in Skyward Sword, this theory could go down the tubes or become legit canon so fast our eyes would burn.

I personally feel that the biggest loop here if when you said that the gods are chaotic and were just messing with ganon by branding him evil and stuff. The gods have been proven to be perfect, and thus impartial. As impartial, they still judged his soul to be evil. I can garuntee that at some point in time he was purely, 100% evil. I can also say that no one can argue that the gods don't think that he is evil because they didn't smite him to be done with it. They, again, are perfect and impartial, so felt that they could only indirectly intervien. And thus Link was born.
 
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