-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Is Samus' Short Hop Really This Crazy High?
- Thread starter OMalley
- Start date
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
It's been that way since melee, and possibly in brawl as well. It's kept that to be faithful to samus mains who have developed tech based on it's height, i believe.
With some clever downB bomb usage, you can effectively 'short hop' at lower heights. It's obviously not the same as being able to short hop lower, considering the setup required, and implications on SHFFL-ing, but you still do have the ability to stay lower to the ground and get some FFL aerials going.
I like to have 2 bombs out so I can aerial, bomb bounce, aerial, bomb bounce. Given the right situations this can be really effective.
I like to have 2 bombs out so I can aerial, bomb bounce, aerial, bomb bounce. Given the right situations this can be really effective.
sharpman5000
Smash Cadet
But... Wouldn't it be nice?
If she had an actual, practical short hop like the rest of the cast?
If she had an actual, practical short hop like the rest of the cast?
Phantasmagorical
Smash Cadet
Her short hop enables her to do platform missile cancelling, which is pretty practical.
Fortress
Smash Master
Yeah, Samus has a reputation for having one of the worst SHFFL games of the cast, second to Weegee I'm pretty sure. Could be wrong on that placement, but she's a bad SHFFL'r. All you need is dat crawl and ice u-smash.
sharpman5000
Smash Cadet
I feel like I can't advance with standard aerials though, and that's what I'd really like to do. Not rely on projectiles alone... Albeit I have made use of the Ice Fair by fast falling, L canceling...
I wanna be super aggressive with her, but her jump height won't allow it. Keep her full jump height, but just make her short hop... shorter, is what I'm saying. I'm sure there's a way to do that and keep in the missile techs as well. If anyone could do it, I know the PMBR could.
*edit*
But I understand, No Johns.
A man can dream, though~...
Sharpman5000.... are you serious?!?!? Samus's aerials basically lose to every other character... they just come out fast... which is great for countering... if she had a lower short hop, samus's couldn't missile cancel on a number of stages... ESPECIALLY IN PM... SAMUS IS A ZONING CHARACTER..... we make opponent approach, and then punish them for doing so. We cant make them approach if samus can't outcamp them.
sharpman5000
Smash Cadet
Fortress
Smash Master
Doesn't really mean Samus can't play aggressively. Samus' moveset leans towards a zoner's, but it doesn't mean a player has to use it exclusively as such.
sharpman5000
Smash Cadet
I see. Are there any guides up yet on how to play her? I'd love to learn what she can do at the moment.
B.W.
Smash Champion
Ice Beam, imo, seems to kind of help with playing aggressively. Though I think you'd be overall getting more out of her fire because that F-Smash is so good.
Aggressive Samus is a weird Samus to play though since her toolkit has much stronger zoning capabilities. If you want to play aggressive, you'll have to try to shift to a different type of aggressive I would think.
Aggressive Samus is a weird Samus to play though since her toolkit has much stronger zoning capabilities. If you want to play aggressive, you'll have to try to shift to a different type of aggressive I would think.
Ya that different type of aggression is called zoning... and counter attack aggressively
Sarix
Smash Ace
I find her above average WD length is better for approaching than air-to-ground with aerials since she's far from fluid and graceful in the air. Aggression with Samus and zoning characters in general is more about putting on pressure than going in and wrecking face because they care so much about their spacing. Samus will never be a pure rushdown character but she has efficient ways to start her rushdown via projectiles.
B.W.
Smash Champion
This doesn't even make sense with what I was trying to say. Zoning isn't "being aggressive."
Depending on what kind of zoning your doing, it can be.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
Zoning can and most definitely is aggressive
http://sonichurricane.com/?p=356
Imagine a samus Missile spamming on yoshi's story. How does the opponent react to all these missiles without being hit? This move is inherently aggressive because the missiles put a giant pressure onto the other opponent to make a move, because otherwise he gets hit in the face. You dont have to be shoving nairs in someone's face to be aggressive, it's all about using the character's tools to gain control of more space on the stage
http://sonichurricane.com/?p=356
Imagine a samus Missile spamming on yoshi's story. How does the opponent react to all these missiles without being hit? This move is inherently aggressive because the missiles put a giant pressure onto the other opponent to make a move, because otherwise he gets hit in the face. You dont have to be shoving nairs in someone's face to be aggressive, it's all about using the character's tools to gain control of more space on the stage
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
I agree wholeheartedly. Alongside this, two different types of missiles changes how you can pressure moves based on speed of projectile and punish accordingly.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
You can play samus aggressively with a lot of success…
Ice beam makes that a lot easier.
basically, use missiles to force your opponent into shield, then run in and do stuff.
It's really not that hard.
Ice beam makes that a lot easier.
basically, use missiles to force your opponent into shield, then run in and do stuff.
It's really not that hard.
Fortress
Smash Master
Thank you.
GeZ
Smash Lord
God, don't link Sonic Hurricane.
Zoning and it's link to being aggressive changes from game to game. Sonic Hurricane says that zoning can totally be aggressive because it's a site devoted mostly to Street Fighter, where that is a more applicable idea. I'd say in smash zoning has the tendency to not be aggressive as it's primarily covering space and your opponents options rather than pressuring your opponent. While space control can be used aggressively, the phrase zoning doesn't necessarily entail that as it usually centrally means controlling space at a distance with projectiles.
I'd say to play aggressively with Samus you want to be chucking missiles while moving forward so that the opponent has to worry about your missiles as well as your close range options. That differs from zoning in its inherent goal, and where it fits comfortably.
Now that I've seen a couple of your posts around the forums I have to say, you post very aggressively, which is bad as most discussions involve less complete shut down of each other's points (and sentence enders, christ), and more constructive batting around of ideas. Trying to strong arm posters you don't agree with is a sure fire way to lead the conversation nowhere.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
Just curious...what is the problem with sonic hurricane?
I agree that zoning doesn't have to focus on few specific strategies, such as "controlling space at a distance with projectiles" - the term is broad and seeps into many other strategies in all fighting games.
But I am saying that you do NOT need to be moving closer (moving forward) to the opponent to be playing aggressive. As long as you are forcing your will onto your opponent that sticks them in a position to be defensive, or to make risky and punishable maneuvers, then you are playing aggressive.
In my example of missile spamming, these goals are being achieved, AS WELL as covering space (through the missiles) and the options of the opponent (limited by the missiles, and covered by smart decisions by the samus)
I agree that zoning doesn't have to focus on few specific strategies, such as "controlling space at a distance with projectiles" - the term is broad and seeps into many other strategies in all fighting games.
But I am saying that you do NOT need to be moving closer (moving forward) to the opponent to be playing aggressive. As long as you are forcing your will onto your opponent that sticks them in a position to be defensive, or to make risky and punishable maneuvers, then you are playing aggressive.
In my example of missile spamming, these goals are being achieved, AS WELL as covering space (through the missiles) and the options of the opponent (limited by the missiles, and covered by smart decisions by the samus)
GeZ... the point of me posting that was to completely shut him down, not to discuss why we should or should not change the name of the SWD... just as I am posting this to completely shut you down.... shut up, this is not a place to share feelings but to ask questions and give answers. If I do it in an abrasive way, that is my choice.
GeZ
Smash Lord
It's also not a place to **** post for the sake of **** posting. Just because it's a forum dedicated to the game, it doesn't preclude our getting along like civilized people. Sharpman was asking a question about the value of an aspect of the character. You don't have to have a meltdown about it, just as you don't have to have a meltdown at me for telling you to cool your jets. It's a bad way to approach the forums, and you might be surprised to find yourself blocked by a lot of people by choosing to write abrasively, as no one likes a jerk. But whatever dude. Do things however you see fit I guess.
Edit: deleted the stupid part.
Fortress
Smash Master
Still makes you a ****. Quit acting like an asshole.
GeZ
Smash Lord
To stay on topic, how do you guys implement SWD? I use it to follow my super missiles for some surprise pressure, and occasionally to chase down those far off edge guards, but I haven't found much application besides that.
Edit: deleted the stupid part.
Fortress
Smash Master
Please just **** already.
GeZ
Smash Lord
I tried to bring it back on topic, or I at least posted something that merits actual discussion at the end. It was also just three posts guys, though I admit the last part was dragging it on needlessly, when was the last time you ended an argument part way through for the sake of it?
Edit: You guys feeling the Christmas cheer yet?
Edit: You guys feeling the Christmas cheer yet?
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
I feel like "stuck between a Samus and a missile" is plenty good application already. Follow ups to high-percent combos, too?
GeZ
Smash Lord
That makes sense. I was just wondering if there was anything I was missing that was painfully apparent. Thanks Lordling.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
I didn't play/sucked with her in Melee even though watching Ihavespaceballs along with Hax inspired me to just get better movement in general, so finding she feels really awesome in P:M I enjoy her more than I thought I would (thanks residual Brawl physics? And definitely light press air dodge) but I forgot her SH was super high and made me too feel the same way like she's got everything to wreck but only moon jumps to do it in. It would be cool if they somehow had another like 3rd jump somehow but I don't think that'll happen: and the information from using bombs from Vanguard is useful. It's too character defining, along with the techniques primarily with missiles are great for her SH with platforms; although with a short SH I do think she'd be better and maybe even broken cus then you'd just have missile cancels easily in a SH without relying on platforms (I don't know how missile cancels frame windows work but it's essentially landing right after a missile is fired and u get like normal landing lag or close to it so it's like Falco's laser)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkhJCT642NU <- also noticed if u go too fast/good with the SH double missile platform thing you'll shoot blanks since like too many are existing in the game(which didn't happen in the video)? Don't know if that's the same for Melee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxbOxMpcXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Ii3NYHiuA#t=183 <-missile canceling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roGXwMN-LGg look at 0:50, that sequence of WD's into getting an up-tilt is crazy hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGHAfx3iIL4#t=1611 more ihsb crazy
Also aerial charge shot can be cancelled pretty early though it feels harder to input right than Sheik's, you should be able to get like 3 b-turnaround rotations with it in a FH if you're frame perfect.
PillsBuryDopeBoy
Führer President King DopeLord The VI
Awesome video links spider.
And im loving project melee Samus, she just feels.... so free. Like you can either zone out your opponent(granted she may not zone like melee samus but hey this ain't melee) or be upfront and aggressive.
And im loving project melee Samus, she just feels.... so free. Like you can either zone out your opponent(granted she may not zone like melee samus but hey this ain't melee) or be upfront and aggressive.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
IHSB is one of my favorite melee samusi
for more cool things, try looking up Phanna (the most technical samus of all time) and Plup
for more cool things, try looking up Phanna (the most technical samus of all time) and Plup