Is Roy the best Fire Emblem character in Smash?

[cj.]

Ike because he fights for his friends
Roy
Robin
Lucina
Marth

 

[Bobert]

IMO it's Roy/Ike, Marth, Lucina, Robin

I just picked up Roy so I'm not sure who I think is better between him and Ike but I'm kind of leaning more towards Roy at the moment. Marth isn't as bad as a lot of people seem to think but he's still not by any means high tier or high mid. Probably right in mid. As a previous Robin main, I will admit that Robin isn't that good(not terrible). He seemed really good at launch until everybody got better and he dropped just like Bowser did but to a lesser extent. Bowser dropped from being #1 to everybody thinking he's bottom 5(which is silly because he's still pretty decent).

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know who the best FE character is out of the bunch. Maybe it's Roy, maybe it's not.
But I do think Robin is underrated for sure and think that he has potential. And I don't think Marth is the absolute worst like some have been claiming either. Out of all the FE characters I play, I feel like I'm personally the best with Roy and Marth/Lucina. I'm sure Ike is good too, I just don't play a lot of him for some reason.

 

[Bobert]

I don't know who the best FE character is out of the bunch. Maybe it's Roy, maybe it's not.
But I do think Robin is underrated for sure and think that he has potential. And I don't think Marth is the absolute worst like some have been claiming either. Out of all the FE characters I play, I feel like I'm personally the best with Roy and Marth/Lucina. I'm sure Ike is good too, I just don't play a lot of him for some reason.

Can Marth even be considered the worst of the FE characters with Lucina in this game?

 

[Deleted member]

Can Marth even be considered the worst of the FE characters with Lucina in this game?

Tough to say really. My boyfriend thinks that Lucina is faster and does more damage but he could be wrong.

 

[Bobert]

Tough to say really. My boyfriend thinks that Lucina is faster and does more damage but he could be wrong.

Um....I'm pretty sure Lucina isn't faster than Marth in terms of frame data AND air/ground speed. She only does more damage than Marths non-tipped moves but kills later while Marth does more damage at the tip and kills earlier(and his f-tilt is actually a stupid good kill move compared to Lucinas). Pretty sure he's feeling a placebo.

 

[GummyBlade]

He is one of the best

 

[Moydow]

Tough to say really. My boyfriend thinks that Lucina is faster and does more damage but he could be wrong.

Lucina's frame data and speed is identical to Marth's, and her damage output and knockback values fall somewhere between Marth's tipped and non-tipped moves. If Marth gets tippers frequently enough, he should both deal more damage than Lucina, and kill earlier than her.

What do Ness and Link have to do with Fire Emblem? Also, you're missing Ike.

-------
I'd say it's pretty close between Marth, Roy, and Ike at the top, with Robin not far behind (people are underestimating Robin). Lucina is probably bottom of the pile - she may be simply Marth without tippers, but the lack of tippers is a big loss.

 

[Deleted member]

I think you copied those from my signature, dude.

Lucina's frame data and speed is identical to Marth's, and her damage output and knockback values fall somewhere between Marth's tipped and non-tipped moves. If Marth gets tippers frequently enough, he should both deal more damage than Lucina, and kill earlier than her.

Exactly, this is what I told him. He didn't really believe me at first but for a while he stopped talking about it. He doesn't even play Lucina much and plays Marth more so I don't understand him sometimes lol.

 

[Tattles]

I am a Marth main, and this is not a bash on Lucina players, but this is for all the people who think Lucina is BETTER than Marth: Lucina is really just easier. I don't care what you say about shield-stun, range, blah blah blah, she has an easier time landing her kill moves and getting sufficient damage done. Marth has more kill options (but are more difficult to land) and potentially higher damage output (which is up to player skill).

People define "tier list" and then make these exceptions. For example, people who say Peach and Pac-Man are high tier because of "potential", and acknowledge that they are difficult characters to play; but in the case of Marth and Lucina, this concept is thrown out the window.

Lucina cannot be higher on a tier list than Marth. It doesn't make any sense. However, you can be more successful with Lucina than you are with Marth. I've played a healthy amount of both, and they do boast pretty drastically different playstyles, and which one your playing does change how you approach the game quite significantly. But regardless, when talking about "character potential" and tier lists, putting Lucina above Marth is simply nonsensical.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They do not have different playstyles. Lucina mains play different due to their misconceptions about the character and mental blocks they create because of their own weaknesses.

Everything else you said is pretty spot on though.

 

[Tattles]

I can't stress enough how little your validation means to me.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Cool.

Dont spew nonsense about a character you clearly do not understand.

 

[A_Kae]

I am a Marth main, and this is not a bash on Lucina players, but this is for all the people who think Lucina is BETTER than Marth: Lucina is really just easier. I don't care what you say about shield-stun, range, blah blah blah, she has an easier time landing her kill moves and getting sufficient damage done. Marth has more kill options (but are more difficult to land) and potentially higher damage output (which is up to player skill).

People define "tier list" and then make these exceptions. For example, people who say Peach and Pac-Man are high tier because of "potential", and acknowledge that they are difficult characters to play; but in the case of Marth and Lucina, this concept is thrown out the window.

Lucina cannot be higher on a tier list than Marth. It doesn't make any sense. However, you can be more successful with Lucina than you are with Marth. I've played a healthy amount of both, and they do boast pretty drastically different playstyles, and which one your playing does change how you approach the game quite significantly. But regardless, when talking about "character potential" and tier lists, putting Lucina above Marth is simply nonsensical.

Why do you think that Marth and Lucina have "drastically different playstyles"?

Just curious, I'm not trying to start an argument here.

 

[Tattles]

Why do you think that Marth and Lucina have "drastically different playstyles"?

Just curious, I'm not trying to start an argument here.

Keeping ideal distance from your enemy with Marth means that the way you approach your enemy is going to be a bit different. How good your spacing is overall will effect the outcome of the entire game; if you're racking up a bunch of weak hits, you start to notice that your opponent isn't quite at kill percent as early as you'd like. Although, one nicely placed fsmash can make up for it.

Lucina is more of a bait-and-punish character. She is able to punish missteps much more severely, with less intensive spacing required. You often see Lucina fishing for grabs much more than Marth, because she doesn't have to keep at this ideal-range that ultimately plays a big part in the outcome of the game.

Marth can't always punish things with tippers, sometimes the enemy will sneak into your space, make a mistake, and are too close to you, so you don't have time to reposition for a tippered fsmash, in which case, Marth will have to settle for getting a grab and putting down some extra damage at mid-percents (70-100%). Lucina doesn't tolerate slipups like that as much.

I guess it's not so much the playstyle in general that changes, it's how you approach your enemy; it's mostly the neutral game and punishing. Essentially, Lucina wants more grabs in the neutral game, as they result in more damage and put you in a more desirable position (or rather, your enemy in a less desirable position), and is able to punish mistakes with fatal smashes more frequently and at lower percents. Marth on the other hand, is generally rewarded more for ideal spacing in neutral; however, when this is not possible (particularly for close-range punishes), grabs are a much more ideal punish because of how good his pummel and release is.

I totally understand if none of this makes any sense. It's really just me trying to put into words how I feel my gameplan changes depending on which of the two I decide to play. They feel quite different to me in the grand scheme of things, when I play them.

 

[Trunks159]

They do not have different playstyles. Lucina mains play different due to their misconceptions about the character and mental blocks they create because of their own weaknesses.

Everything else you said is pretty spot on though.

This.

=


No one really knows how good Roy is because hes so new and there arent any popular mains out for him. Hes ok imo but every move he uses feels unsafe. Put him=marth because of this.
Robin can really hold space well since hes stupidly slow. This would make sense if his Elfire and Thunder were faster zoning tools. He does terrible against aggressive characters (etc) and cant camp/zone as hard as etc. He needs some buffs.
Lucina is just a worse version of Marth.

 

[A_Kae]

Keeping ideal distance from your enemy with Marth means that the way you approach your enemy is going to be a bit different. How good your spacing is overall will effect the outcome of the entire game; if you're racking up a bunch of weak hits, you start to notice that your opponent isn't quite at kill percent as early as you'd like. Although, one nicely placed fsmash can make up for it.

Lucina is more of a bait-and-punish character. She is able to punish missteps much more severely, with less intensive spacing required. You often see Lucina fishing for grabs much more than Marth, because she doesn't have to keep at this ideal-range that ultimately plays a big part in the outcome of the game.

Marth can't always punish things with tippers, sometimes the enemy will sneak into your space, make a mistake, and are too close to you, so you don't have time to reposition for a tippered fsmash, in which case, Marth will have to settle for getting a grab and putting down some extra damage at mid-percents (70-100%). Lucina doesn't tolerate slipups like that as much.

I guess it's not so much the playstyle in general that changes, it's how you approach your enemy; it's mostly the neutral game and punishing. Essentially, Lucina wants more grabs in the neutral game, as they result in more damage and put you in a more desirable position (or rather, your enemy in a less desirable position), and is able to punish mistakes with fatal smashes more frequently and at lower percents. Marth on the other hand, is generally rewarded more for ideal spacing in neutral; however, when this is not possible (particularly for close-range punishes), grabs are a much more ideal punish because of how good his pummel and release is.

I totally understand if none of this makes any sense. It's really just me trying to put into words how I feel my gameplan changes depending on which of the two I decide to play. They feel quite different to me in the grand scheme of things, when I play them.

I don't really agree with you here, but I didn't want to start an argument, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

 

[Grass]

>Is Roy the best FE character
>Short Answer: no
>Long Answer: ....No....Marth is.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Can't really say. I can say though that I use him better than any of the other FE characters on the roster. It's either because he's easier to pick up, or none of the other FE characters fit my playstyle. Heck, it's maybe even both, lol.

 

[Tattles]

This.

=


No one really knows how good Roy is because hes so new and there arent any popular mains out for him. Hes ok imo but every move he uses feels unsafe. Put him=marth because of this.
Robin can really hold space well since hes stupidly slow. This would make sense if his Elfire and Thunder were faster zoning tools. He does terrible against aggressive characters (etc) and cant camp/zone as hard as etc. He needs some buffs.
Lucina is just a worse version of Marth.

Robin can handle Falcon just fine. I think it's 50/50 at worst.

 

[Zio~]

1. Ike
2. Roy
3. Marth
4. Robin
5. Lucina
I think Roy is kida overated because of how easy is to get kills with him, plz don't kill me for saying that.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I'm thinking Roy and Ike are pretty even as of right now but I can't help but think Roy's got the upper hand in the match-up.

I think this should also depend on how good their match-ups are against the top tiers because against each other, they seem pretty dead even.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Roy is sort of ridiculous.
He's faster than Marth and stronger than Ike. He also has better airspeed than either.
Roy is kind of OP in that regard, since his f-smash does more damage than Ike's. (Ike's early 19% vs Roy's 20%). His frame data is unbelievable, really good chance of being high/top tier.

This is kind of upsetting in a way, since I wanted to pick up Roy....but he's just so much better than Ike, Lucina and Marth in pretty much every way. C'mon mashpotato, give us the buffs. THE BUFFS. THE BUFFS.

 

[SpandexBullets]

I'm thinking Roy and Ike are pretty even as of right now but I can't help but think Roy's got the upper hand in the match-up.

I think this should also depend on how good their match-ups are against the top tiers because against each other, they seem pretty dead even.

Roy wins.

 

[meleebrawler]

Roy is sort of ridiculous.
He's faster than Marth and stronger than Ike. He also has better airspeed than either.
Roy is kind of OP in that regard, since his f-smash does more damage than Ike's. (Ike's early 19% vs Roy's 20%). His frame data is unbelievable, really good chance of being high/top tier.

This is kind of upsetting in a way, since I wanted to pick up Roy....but he's just so much better than Ike, Lucina and Marth in pretty much every way. C'mon mashpotato, give us the buffs. THE BUFFS. THE BUFFS.

You can't look at one move and say that makes them stronger than character Y. Roy fsmash only does that much damage point blank while Ike only has to worry about not hitting the tip while swinging his sword in a big arc. The vast majority of Ike's moves are stronger than Roy's, particularly in the air. He, as well as Marth to an extent also have better range and can play footsies to maximum benefit unlike Roy who gets small potatoes until he gets an opportunity to go in. Given that disadvantage it's only natural he has better mobility to make it easier to pull off, as well as marginally better frame data.

While his frame data and mobility will definitely keep him from falling too low as well as his decent grab game, his gimpability and bad disadvantage state due to his falling speed keep him in check, as well as his difficulty sealing stocks in the air..

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Ike seems to have a much better time in the air while Roy excels with ground attacks. All of Ike's air attacks are very powerful kill moves that can kill pretty early. Ike's B-air specifically is god-like. Even Ike's tilts are basically unchargeable smash attacks (besides D-tilt). F-tilt was even made faster. And now Ike's dash attack kills. Ike is pretty formidable now.

Can you really say Roy is better just because he's faster? He's got better frame data but I think even Ike is high tier now at this point. He definitely seems even to Roy.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Ike seems to have a much better time in the air while Roy excels with ground attacks. All of Ike's air attacks are very powerful kill moves that can kill pretty early. Ike's B-air specifically is god-like. Even Ike's tilts are basically unchargeable smash attacks (besides D-tilt). F-tilt was even made faster. And now Ike's dash attack kills. Ike is pretty formidable now.

Can you really say Roy is better just because he's faster? He's got better frame data but I think even Ike is high tier now at this point. He definitely seems even to Roy.

He's not just faster; his strength is on par with Ike and with some moves he has slightly more range and utility.
He also has superior throws, air speed and out-of-shield options. Roy's bair is just as strong, but he also has amazing IASA frames on his fair (which some state links into his dair a la 'Ken combo'), a wondrous juggle game with up air, jab, u-tilt and nair, and a deadly Neutral B that has like 7 frames of cooldown.

But really, yeah, it's because he's really fast.
He is the rushdown character players wish Ike could be. If you can exploit Roy's amazing frame data, you can shark out Ike players to the point where it would be an achievement if you got hit at all.

I wish I wasn't overrating him, I wish the other FE squad had the tools to fight toe-to-toe with Roy, but that's where I see Roy going in the current meta.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Roy is sort of ridiculous.
He's faster than Marth and stronger than Ike. He also has better airspeed than either.
Roy is kind of OP in that regard, since his f-smash does more damage than Ike's. (Ike's early 19% vs Roy's 20%). His frame data is unbelievable, really good chance of being high/top tier.

This is kind of upsetting in a way, since I wanted to pick up Roy....but he's just so much better than Ike, Lucina and Marth in pretty much every way. C'mon mashpotato, give us the buffs. THE BUFFS. THE BUFFS.

Disadvantage state is kind of a thing

Also the fact that you think Roy is better then the others in every way shows a deep lack of understanding.

meh. f it.

Let the Roy hype train continue

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Exactly, I like Roy a lot but to say he's better in every way is not very realistic.

Ike was never really meant to be a rush down character. Ike excels when he plays defensively while Roy thrives off of aggressive play. As a result, Ike has much better spacing tools and has incredible weight. Meanwhile, Roy can kill easy and is very fast. Both have great combo capabilities.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Exactly, I like Roy a lot but to say he's better in every way is not very realistic.

Ike was never really meant to be a rush down character. Ike excels when he plays defensively while Roy thrives off of aggressive play. As a result, Ike has much better spacing tools and has incredible weight. Meanwhile, Roy can kill easy and is very fast. Both have great combo capabilities.

Can't, sorry.
Ike cannot combo past frame trapping with up air/fair, autocancel nair into jab, or d-tilt into X aerial. Ike should be able to kill as early as Roy, but he still can't get a stock down until about 75-80% at least. Roy can safely kill at 50% at the ledge, and can easily build that damage with his good approach options and comboing tools.

Roy has very few weaknesses and Ike has many. As much as I like Ike's improvements thanks to 1.0.8, he's still miles behind the potential of Roy's amazing frame data. I mean, Ike's neutral is still bad, and he still gets shut down by all of the top tiers. Roy get s bodied too, but the a lesser extent due to his general lack of endlag.

Roy has very quick ground moves (and nair) and air speed allow him to counter and even shut down many approaches. Ike cannot approach if the opponent is shielding.

 

[Trunks159]

Simple Ike Combos:
Upthrow >> Fair (0-60/70%)
Upthrow/Dthrow >> Bair/Nair/Uair
Falling Nair back hit >> bair
Falling Nair Front Hit >> Fair
Falling Nair Front Hit >> jab >> dtilt >> fair
Dtilt >> Fair

If he's shielding, dtilt, pivot ftilt, empty short hops. You must not know much about Ike because these are the basics.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Simple Ike Combos:
Upthrow >> Fair (0-60/70%)
Upthrow/Dthrow >> Bair/Nair/Uair
Falling Nair back hit >> bair
Falling Nair Front Hit >> Fair
Falling Nair Front Hit >> jab >> dtilt >> fair
Dtilt >> Fair

If he's shielding, dtilt, pivot ftilt, empty short hops. You must not know much about Ike because these are the basics.

m8

I've said it before. I like playing as Ike. I think he's cool. I'm not poo-pooing on Ike. I like Ike and all his moves (U-throw at 70% into fair tho? Pfft. On Donkey Kong maybe. Try Luigi, or Mario, or Fox, or Wario.)

I was just presenting the fact that Ike has a lot of weaknesses which link back to his problematic endlag and lack of a reliable approach. Roy doesn't have those problems, and can shark Ike out as a result.

Roy has one weakness, his recovery (and perhaps range but thats arguable thanks to Wario airspeed and dash buff). It's a big weakness too (which Ike can capitalise on thanks to buffs to fair and his already reliable bair), but even then, Ike's problems are too big in the matchup to be considered even.

I'm putting it as 60:40 to Roy, perhaps even 70:30.

 

[warionumbah2]

Roy has another weakness: His garbage disadvantage state.

In terms of numbers sure he has a few weaknesses, but the weaknesses he does have are pretty big and they lead to him getting bopped by characters that matter(Sheik,Rosalina ect).

 

[SpandexBullets]

Roy has another weakness: His garbage disadvantage state.

In terms of numbers sure he has a few weaknesses, but the weaknesses he does have are pretty big and they lead to him getting bopped by characters that matter(Sheik,Rosalina ect).

That disadvantage is almost universal tho (annoys the hell out of me how 6 characters just annihilate almost 50 others).

Ike will get down-thrown by Luigi and fair'd by Shiek till the cows come home, but I think Roy has a better chance of taking them down, at least better than Ike or any other of the FE gang.
Which is still bad, you're right, but he's not the worst at it!

 

[SpandexBullets]

Oh this is good!
http://t.co/waDC0jG77M
(Site holding frame data for Smash 4 characters; check out Roy and Ike and we can compare!)

 

[warionumbah2]

Ike will get down-thrown by Luigi and fair'd by Shiek till the cows come home,

Roy gets wrecked 10 times harder. I'm surprised the Roy hype hasn't died yet this is remarkable.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Roy gets wrecked 10 times harder. I'm surprised the Roy hype hasn't died yet this is remarkable.

They get rekt the same. If anything, Ike has a larger frame, so he receives rek the most.
But Roy is less likely to get grabbed than Ike, since he has better tools when dealing with Luigi's pressure and grab setups. He, like everyone else, cannot deal with Shiek, so, they all get rekt regardless.
But Roy can stand more of a chance because he has great frame data and Ike, Marth, Lucina and Robin don't.

 

[Xuan Wu]

You are right that Roy excels in speed and power, as well as having good frame data overall; however, you have overlooked one of his other strengths, which also happens to be a glaring weakness. His fall speed.

Being a fast-faller makes landing and approaching less of a commitment; on the flipside, this also means increased vulnerability to combos, and greater difficulty recovering. In the case of Roy versus Ike, Roy's fall speed proves detrimental as Ike can kill confirm with U-throw to F-air near the ledges of the stage. Roy's Flare Blade also cannot be used for the same purpose as Ike's Eruption, particularly in edge-guarding, as the latter has a hitbox that extends below ledges, hitting low recoveries. As for Roy's other weaknesses, none of his aerials can SH auto-cancel, though this is a minor setback thanks to his low landing lag N-air.

Personally, I find this match-up to be at least even for Ike.

Also, for correction, Ike's N-air does not auto-cancel. It just has a low amount of landing lag, much like Roy's N-air. Not to worry, though. I once thought Ike's N-air auto-cancelled in SSBB.

^-^

 

[SpandexBullets]

Sorry, i was referring to it's ulitity as a combo starter into jab, not autocancel.

My B, but yeah.
Falling speed hurts him a lot if he gets combo'd, but more for his recovery. A lot of the time, Roy can't safely airdodge in case he dips too low. That's a much bigger probelm than getting combo'd.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm waiting for you to actually look at their frame data and realize that Marth and Roys frame data is virtually identical.

The main difference is the hitlag modifiers and the placement of their sweetspots.