VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
Mr. C, I've seen eruption obliterate ledge grabbers. Am I missing something. Ledge grabbing is a very common situation, and Ike seems to negate that almost completely with a well timed eruption.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Is pit a little better than Ike?
- Thread starter Roys amazing
- Start date
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
So? All you are doing is flaming Ike users w/o provocation.
Now for some facts:
Ike has a counter for heavy pressure
Ike's d-tilt is a spike for edgegarding along with eruption
Dodging is still in, so spammed projectiles can be avoided
Ike can still do plenty to hold his ground and win a disadvantaged match. Ike may win, Pit may win. It always depends on the players though.
KCFreedom18
Smash Rookie
While that is true, I think the point of this thread is to compare the characters in which case Pit does seem to have an advantage.(Ike is cooler though
)kunai_abuser
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2007
- Messages
- 241
When you go for coolness, it's no contest, Ike takes 1st. But yeah, I think fighting each other, Pit wins... But the game changes completely if you ask something like who'd beat Peach better.While that is true, I think the point of this thread is to compare the characters in which case Pit does seem to have an advantage.(Ike is cooler though
I have played Brawl, Ike was the character I used the most lol...so no I am not flaming I'm stating high-level play opinions. I am also one of the best Texas smashers so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to high-level competition.
Ike does have a counter, his counter is slow and should only be used when you know it will hit. Edge guarding like in Melee is completely gone. You will not be spiking people/fsmashing etc people for edgeguarding. If you want to kill someone off the edge you have to jump out there and aerial him. Otherwise auto sweetspot just messed up your whole plan. In case you haven't realized most completive players don't spam projectiles to add %'s thats just an added bonus. We spam projectiles to make people dodge/roll/waste jumps so we can punish accordingly.
Now for some facts:
Ike has one of the worst recovery's in the game.
He is easily punished and dies extremely easy when off the stage.
Melee edge guarding does not exist.
I never said anything about Ike not being able to win. Pikachu in Melee can Kill Sheik and that match is 100% in Sheiks favor. Any character can win vs any character but that doesn't change the fact some characters are mechanically better then others. Just like Fox/Sheik/Marth/Cf/Peach/Falco > Mario/Luigi/Ganon...etcetc
Like I said before Ike is a solid character but he will be sitting in the mid tier area.
Eruption cannot be used for edge guarding it will not hit no matter what unless the persons upb does not auto sweet spot the ledge, however it can be used to kill people who jump off the edge trying to attack then you can use your heavy armor frames to not take knock back while hitting them. Of course thats with the Ike waiting of the level, he can jump off and Eruption though.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I'm maining Ike and Kirby, Pit will be a secondary, but I'm in contact with one of the best Pit players, Inui, along with a very good player at Ike, Lord Knight. So now it's a battle of who I like better.
I like Lord Knight better. XD
Mr.C shares my thoughts on Ike, except for recovery. Really, that might be the most debatable thing about Ike. I mean, have you seen the **** Aether can do? Most Ike players will purposely float way down, so people wont chase after them, then Aether pwn back up. On the other hand, if they get knocked way off to the side, then it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Unless the fish jumps out of the barrel with Ragnell in hand, but that's another story. >_>
Ike's Aether as a move is incredible. If he is close enough to the level and can Aether underneath he is practically 100% safe lol. He can even camp the edge with Upb's. What I mean by horrible recovery is when he is far away he is forced to use quick draw for recovery purposes, it is pretty easy to jump in front of the quick draw and cause his death, very similar to what luigi had to go through when he was at a distance in Melee. There are people with better recovery/options and some characters with worse recovery (ZSS, Ivy, Olimar, Mario) lol. Overall, Aether is extremely good for recovery WHEN it can be used for it, also as a move in general. If his Aether cannot reach the edge then he is in some major trouble though.
*sad face*VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
Checkc this out
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqgrKz_N5G4
at 2:27, didn't Ike just totally own Sheik with eruption while edge guarding?
Watch all of that video if you can. Lot of eruption scenarios in there I can definitely see working.
Does Eruption have super armor in the air as well?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqgrKz_N5G4
at 2:27, didn't Ike just totally own Sheik with eruption while edge guarding?
Watch all of that video if you can. Lot of eruption scenarios in there I can definitely see working.
Does Eruption have super armor in the air as well?
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
Checkc this out
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqgrKz_N5G4
at 2:27, didn't Ike just totally own Sheik with eruption while edge guarding?
Watch all of that video if you can. Lot of eruption scenarios in there I can definitely see working.
Does Eruption have super armor in the air as well?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqgrKz_N5G4
at 2:27, didn't Ike just totally own Sheik with eruption while edge guarding?
Watch all of that video if you can. Lot of eruption scenarios in there I can definitely see working.
Does Eruption have super armor in the air as well?
Hello, I am new to dairantou smash brothers x but I play kof98/2k2, ggxx#r, ssf2t and 3s competitively. I've never taken smash brothers or the community seriously but I'm open for a change of heart under 1 condition... This topic seems to be pro-pit so I will be Ike, let's see you beat me.
The Sheik lost her invincible frames, wasn't really the Ike doing a good edge guard it was more so the Sheik making a mistake.
And yes Eruption has super armor anywhere but only after the move is coming out. While you are charging it etc you can get hit. Which is VERY good when used correctly, Eruption is a great killing move.
EDIT: You also have to realize the person in the video and the people he is playing are mediocre skill wise at best. They are all DI'ing improperly and making extremely stupid mistakes lol.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Yayo, if you dont take this seriously, then you will lose. Period.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
XD It wasn't an insult, but you cant just suddenly pick up the game and be good at it.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
I hear ya Mr. C
I still think people aren't using Ike to his full potential yet. He's def not going to be an easy character. I see him falling somewhere in the top 12 or so when it's all said and done. He definitely has viable ways to set up kills. He even has a good, reliable, semi spammable move with his a,a,a combo.
Looking forward to fighting you. Not because I wanna prove you wrong or anything, but because you seem to know what's up and I'm looking for good compp when brawl drops. I live in Jersey though, so it'd be online. You're signed up to wifiwars and smashbrawlrankigns right?
I still think people aren't using Ike to his full potential yet. He's def not going to be an easy character. I see him falling somewhere in the top 12 or so when it's all said and done. He definitely has viable ways to set up kills. He even has a good, reliable, semi spammable move with his a,a,a combo.
Looking forward to fighting you. Not because I wanna prove you wrong or anything, but because you seem to know what's up and I'm looking for good compp when brawl drops. I live in Jersey though, so it'd be online. You're signed up to wifiwars and smashbrawlrankigns right?
RoK the Reaper
Smash Lord
Hell, Where do you watch your live streaming videos at?
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
True, but do you honestly believe that every good smash player will know how to DI prop?
And Ike does have horrible recovery, but his defense is good enough that he shouldn't be spending much time off the edge anyway.
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
Thank you for your well thought out response.
Please do elaborate if you post your opinion.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Pit is overall better.
But Ike will be high tier IMO.
But Ike will be high tier IMO.
Ture dat yo.
Ya dude when I get a wireless connection of course we can play. Just to let you know you live in NJ and there are a few very good players there, Mew2King for example lol (who is top 3 in the world at Melee) pretty sure NJ'Finest still lives there as well. :] Try go get a hold of em and see you can play some smash lol. (melee that is)
Yes thats why people win thousands of dollars playing in competitive tournaments lol. Good people rarely mess up little things like DI.
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
A lot of good players around here don't even know what l-canceling is.
Key word "good" as in high-level competitive play. The people you play or are considering good I could seriously 4 stock using one hand lol.A lot of good players around here don't even know what l-canceling is.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
I have a better Idea, why don't we have the best Pit master go against the best Ike master than we will see who's better. If the person loses, they would get better and beat the person they lost to. See what I'm saying, IT'S AN EVER ENDLESS CYCLE WHEN YOU SAY WHO'S BETTER THAN WHO!!!!
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
...What kind of "good" player cant l-cancel?...
No idea lol
Fader
Smash Cadet
As they say, to each his own merits.
As much as I like Ike, it doesn't stop him from having exploitable weaknesses. In this case, ranged weapons that stun.
In this match up, Pit can clearly devastate Ike due to his superiority in projectiles. Pit could easily camp while spamming arrows until Ike is around 150% and then move in for hits. Should Ike get too close, Pit can easily fly to the opposite side of the field and repeat the process. The arrows also stop Quickdraw's charge, and it also doesn't help Ike that the arrows can curve as well. This would also hurt his horizontal recovery as well as approach.
Pit > Ike in this case. Ike may have advantage in other matchups, but clearly not this one. The approach is too hard for him.
As much as I like Ike, it doesn't stop him from having exploitable weaknesses. In this case, ranged weapons that stun.
In this match up, Pit can clearly devastate Ike due to his superiority in projectiles. Pit could easily camp while spamming arrows until Ike is around 150% and then move in for hits. Should Ike get too close, Pit can easily fly to the opposite side of the field and repeat the process. The arrows also stop Quickdraw's charge, and it also doesn't help Ike that the arrows can curve as well. This would also hurt his horizontal recovery as well as approach.
Pit > Ike in this case. Ike may have advantage in other matchups, but clearly not this one. The approach is too hard for him.
You talk about his arrows as if they compared to falco's shls. If all you do is camp without any followups, I don't see why the Ike wouldn't just shield and dodge said arrows while approaching.
and no viper, tiers exist.
and no viper, tiers exist.
BigRick
Smash Master
lawl Ike should have a reflector...
seriously Sakurai is dumb he's giving all the god**** reflectors to characters that have projectiles
where's the logic in that
seriously Sakurai is dumb he's giving all the god**** reflectors to characters that have projectiles
where's the logic in that
Fader
Smash Cadet
Harder to dodge than you think. Approaching is still a larger gamble for Ike than Pit.
Ike40 (Ike) vs. Brown (Pit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyUFK9-o58
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
Good players don't have to know every exploit in Smash, they just have to know which move is the best to use in their situation and mindgames.
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
To quote a meme: O Rly? L-cancelling is out of Brawl, now who is better than whom is just heresay.
And one hand? I garuntee that wouldn't be a four stock... you would lose one life at least. :D
I am sorry to have gotten us off topic.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyUFK9-o58
watching that fight murdered a lot of my minor worries about how Ike will be able to fight Pit.
In fact, even though the Ike player won, I feel the Pit player is better and executed better.
Pit's projectile game is overrated as hell. It's good, but you ain't gonna keep a good Ike away with that. The Ike player was literally tryin to do evertyhing to get out of it at times EXCEPT block then jump.
Mr. C, I know about Mew2King and them boys, but there's really no point in fighting them in SSBM. I never got into the game competitively because I was too young to be able to seek out comp. Won't be an issue for Brawl, though.
Who u playin for Brawl?
watching that fight murdered a lot of my minor worries about how Ike will be able to fight Pit.
In fact, even though the Ike player won, I feel the Pit player is better and executed better.
Pit's projectile game is overrated as hell. It's good, but you ain't gonna keep a good Ike away with that. The Ike player was literally tryin to do evertyhing to get out of it at times EXCEPT block then jump.
Mr. C, I know about Mew2King and them boys, but there's really no point in fighting them in SSBM. I never got into the game competitively because I was too young to be able to seek out comp. Won't be an issue for Brawl, though.
Who u playin for Brawl?
PwnageLlama
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 42
I have not let laid hands on Brawl, so my opinion should not be valued highly.
First, I think "good" and "better" are a little vague.
Some characters a better against a certain characters then others.
(Thats a little muddled, try this: Fox is better against Bowser then Gannon is against Bowser.)
HOW CAN YOU PROVE ONE CHARACTER IS "BETTER" THEN ANOTHER?
Unless matches between two equally skilled contestants are played between Pit and each other character and compared to the results of Ike verses all the characters, nothing can be shown.
Of course, no equally skilled players can be found, as it is impossible to define "equally skilled."
Anecdotal evidence is useless- differing skill levels.
IMO, the only real stuff we have is the tier lists from Melee. The tier lists show which character is it possible to be BEST with. There have been many, many tournaments which should make the data fairly accurate. (I don't want to argue about this, don't bother.)
From what we can see from Melee, fast characters claimed higher places on the tier list.
First, I think "good" and "better" are a little vague.
Some characters a better against a certain characters then others.
(Thats a little muddled, try this: Fox is better against Bowser then Gannon is against Bowser.)
HOW CAN YOU PROVE ONE CHARACTER IS "BETTER" THEN ANOTHER?
Unless matches between two equally skilled contestants are played between Pit and each other character and compared to the results of Ike verses all the characters, nothing can be shown.
Of course, no equally skilled players can be found, as it is impossible to define "equally skilled."
Anecdotal evidence is useless- differing skill levels.
IMO, the only real stuff we have is the tier lists from Melee. The tier lists show which character is it possible to be BEST with. There have been many, many tournaments which should make the data fairly accurate. (I don't want to argue about this, don't bother.)
From what we can see from Melee, fast characters claimed higher places on the tier list.
Lcanceling is not an exploit but nice try.
I have several years of top level competitive experience, Lcanceling had nothing to with me being good, it was just a tool that was suppose to be used in 64 and Melee to make the meta-game more in depth. I'm 100% positive I can 3-4 stock you using 1 hand in Melee. lol
Ill probably go between DDD, Luigi, Marth and Ike. =]
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
No. :smile: against me you would 4s.
All I'm saying is that somewhere in the world there is a person who doesn't have to do these tricks to be good, is able to beat you.
Eh, way off topic here, all in all it's a player who makes a char good, but yeah in theory Pit would be> Ike. Theory never works out as it's planned though... :smile:
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Erm, they might not use it (why they would not use it is beyond me) but they sure as **** know how to.
A non-tourney player shouldn't make such bold statements. >_>
PwnageLlama
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 42
Any thoughts on my argument/opinion?
Its at the very end of page 5.
I thought I brought up some relevant points.
Its at the very end of page 5.
I thought I brought up some relevant points.
blue_dragon
Smash Apprentice
And it's come to this, did I ever say I was a non-tourney player?