Is pessimism ruining the hype for smash 4?

[Accelerator]

Why exactly do you say that the logistics are laughable? Just curious about your reasoning.

Don't take the bait man, just leave it.

As far as criticism of this game goes though, my real only problem has been blast zones. VI isn't too prevalent at low %s where my combos matter a lot more than getting someone offstage, but beyond that there's a lot of stupid stuff arising from the misconception that VI is more effective than it actually is.

It's not really bait. WiiU and HDTVS are not cheap. 20 setups and you're looking at 10 grand. Very easy to steal to. Good luck running a 3ds tourney. To many connections will cause massive lag, no friendlies either.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I think blind optimism is ruining this game more than a realistic outlook. People get worked up and think clear deconfirmations mean that the character they want will be playable, and then don't listen to reason when someone pokes holes in their rationale and then they accuse you of hating the character, bla blah blah... if you're bitter and angry over what this game turned out to be, then it's really all your fault.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I'm having mixed feelings toward Smash 4 right now. Everything seemed okay until Vectoring showed up.

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's not really bait. WiiU and HDTVS are not cheap. 20 setups and you're looking at 10 grand. Very easy to steal to. Good luck running a 3ds tourney. To many connections will cause massive lag, no friendlies either.

Oh we're talking money? Well, I suppose, but if the game IS successful enough then it'll be worth it, even briefly. I definitely agree on the no big 3DS tournaments though, I see those staying small due to connection interference and the problems that may come from it.

 

[Accelerator]

Oh we're talking money? Well, I suppose, but if the game IS successful enough then it'll be worth it, even briefly. I definitely agree on the no big 3DS tournaments though, I see those staying small due to connection interference and the problems that may come from it.

It's not a matter of if it's worth it. It's a matter of if 20 people want to bring their 400 dollar setups to tourneys and rely on the TO to protect it.

Edit: To add on to this post, this is really the blind optimism I'm talking about. You think Smash4 tournaments are going to poof into existence no matter the logistics? Do you think setups grow on trees?

 

[Naoshi]

I think blind optimism is ruining this game more than a realistic outlook. People get worked up and think clear deconfirmations mean that the character they want will be playable, and then don't listen to reason when someone pokes holes in their rationale and then they accuse you of hating the character, bla blah blah... if you're bitter and angry over what this game turned out to be, then it's really all your fault.

I agree with this moreso. People who overhype themselves are the ones likely to be burnt out from disappointments more than the ones keeping low expectations.

 

[Lord Goomy]

It's not really bait. WiiU and HDTVS are not cheap. 20 setups and you're looking at 10 grand. Very easy to steal to. Good luck running a 3ds tourney. To many connections will cause massive lag, no friendlies either.

Wait, was he trying to say that I was baiting?
Anyways, I do agree with you that a lot of people resist any and all criticism of the game, but there are also way too many people overreacting when we don't know nearly enough about the game yet. The tournament setup is a good point too. I've never looked at the logistics of running a tournament before, so it's interesting to think about.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Well, that's basically a risk at any major event. We have things like CEO with expensive stuff and it's usually protected so like, yeah. I doubt Smash 4 will be at smaller majors though.

And no I just figured the logistics thing was something silly and negative but he elaborated so I've got no reason to follow up on that.

 

[Accelerator]

Well, that's basically a risk at any major event. We have things like CEO with expensive stuff and it's usually protected so like, yeah. I doubt Smash 4 will be at smaller majors though.

And no I just figured the logistics thing was something silly and negative but he elaborated so I've got no reason to follow up on that.

There really is no risk at major events for other Smash game tourneys. No one is going to steal a CRT TV, and bolting down Wii's and Gamecubes is easy as well. Those are also 20 and 50 dollar systems. No one will risk being caught and blacklisted from tourneys for chump change. But 400+ dollars is a different story.

Bolting down a WiiU without compromising the screen isn't easy either, I can't even think of how to do it.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Most of the pessimism probably comes from the majority of the world not having the frigging game yet.

 

[TTTTTsd]

There really is no risk at major events for other Smash game tourneys. No one is going to steal a CRT TV, and bolting down Wii's and Gamecubes is easy as well. Those are also 20 and 50 dollar systems. No one will risk being caught and blacklisted from tourneys for chump change. But 400+ dollars is a different story.

Bolting down a WiiU without compromising the screen isn't easy either, I can't even think of how to do it.

I meant major events in general. EVO and CEO, etc.

 

[ChikoLad]

Not really.

Don't let negative or condescending people ruin your day, not just in regards to Smash, but with anything.

I've put up with some crap today on another forum, actually in relation to the Smash demo, but I'm not going to let crap like that bring me down. Some people just live in their own isolated world, where everything they say is right and good, and all they try to do is spread negativity, to make it more insulting a practice. Just move on and don't let them weigh you down. If people want to bark about the trivial, let them.

Of course, you should always take note of the constructive and sound criticism, but yeah, ignore the ****heads.

 

[Accelerator]

I meant major events in general. EVO and CEO, etc.

A scene doesn't survive on 2-3 tourneys a year.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I suppose you have a point, but we're gonna have to wait and see. I mean, you could say this for any new game and any new scene. I'm not going to be horribly optimistic but expensive stuff has been at tournaments before, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Accelerator]

I suppose you have a point, but we're gonna have to wait and see. I mean, you could say this for any new game and any new scene. I'm not going to be horribly optimistic but expensive stuff has been at tournaments before, wouldn't be the first time.

The advantage of Smash tournaments has always been the ability to run tournaments on the mega cheap. That's why you can find a tourney any time you feel like going to one, because they're practically free to run.

 

[Orngeblu]

I have to admit I was kinda worried for the game, although that's nothing related to my hype for the game, but is related to the negative comments. Personally, I'm still going to have a blast with Smash 4 no matter what negativity Smash 4 gets.

 

[VKatana]

I think you're missing the point that some of us like to play games for the gameplay.

I can't stand hearing people declare that they like or dislike a game before it's released- same with claiming to have a "main" because they recognize their favorite character from another series.

I might like this game, I might not... but putting people down for not swearing loyalty to the latest installment of the series is what drives the community apart.

Don't worry, I'm getting the point. That's why I mentioned the Brawl and Melee competitive communities. Sm4sh may very well end up having its own distinct competitive communities, because they favor how the gameplay mechanics effect competition in that installment (for example, my cousins still played Street Fighter after Street Fighter II came out, because at the time they disliked the combo system).

 

[KoiKazma]

I was extremely pessimistic when I saw the full roster (No Ridley and IC cut ) But now that I've had some time to think about it and see it all in action, I can't be complaining! Sakurai has worked so hard on this game, I have no place to be disappointed. Now I'm happy with full roster, and I accept the clones with open arms!

 

[TheZapp]

I honestly did not care about the roster. YOU WILL BUY THE GAME NO MATTER WHAT THE ROSTER IS ANYWAYS. XD. Any smash fan is still gonna get it

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

Maybe around here. I'm very hyped for the game, but maybe around here.. yes. You know, expecting too much and then bashing the game for not living up to those expectations isn't justified just because you were being optimistic. Essentially, it's being a big baby. I might not be looking in the right places, but it just seems like it's recently been all about what they didn't do right rather than what they did.

Already called the community out once on this and I was vaguely insulted and was accused of just trying to be humble. I think that in itself shows how a large portion of the boards turned sour over not getting what they wanted.

 

[lRasha]

I am still REALLY looking forward to this game!!!

 

[Gabukin]

I feel like smash fans should always accept any new installment of the game with open arms, instead of bashing it for its flaws.
I just want this game to be popular, to have a competitive scene, to be played in tournaments. but I feel that with all this overwhelming pessimism regarding this game, that this game won't survive long. and that's really what has me the most worried.

 

[Archimedes]

I know a good amount of people who are upset about different things but I ignore it all. I cant wait for this game and im excited no matter what.

It will have a competitive scene no doubt, but if it will be big as melee will be seen later. It is attracting A LOT of new people to smash. I really hope people in the competitive community accept it as well, but for the game itself nobody can effect my hype for it.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I feel like smash fans should always accept any new installment of the game with open arms, instead of bashing it for its flaws.
I just want this game to be popular, to have a competitive scene, to be played in tournaments. but I feel that with all this overwhelming pessimism regarding this game, that this game won't survive long. and that's really what has me the most worried.

I wouldn't worry too much on what appears on message boards. This noise appeared with every installment so far, without fail. Yet what we have is 1 million sales in Japan alone so far. There is a silent majority involved here that is way bigger than the squeaky wheels.

 

[ancara22]

I think what's gonna REALLY kill hype for me, is if we end up to where a lot of people act like it's an instant repeat of brawl, and isn't exactly like Melee, Project M or whatever, and thus don't give it a chance at all. And even worse still if we don't handle the first few months of this game's competitive scene well, because otherwise we'll get some dumb ruling or ban that's silly in retrospect, but takes ages to turn over because of stubbornness.

What I'm trying to say, is for both rusemasters and those in the Melee/PM community here, let's not try to tear down this game or ruin its image on day 1 just because it's different to what you normally play, or because it might take away focus from your game(s) you play a little. Let's give it a chance, let some tournies happen, and see how it goes. And if it goes as bad as/worse than Brawl, THEN I will go eat crow and humble pie.

 

[Xzsmmc]

People are going to complain no matter what, since there's no way to satisfy everyone. If it really bothers anyone that much, I advise you to not bother talking about it online.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I think what's gonna REALLY kill hype for me, is if we end up to where a lot of people act like it's an instant repeat of brawl, and isn't exactly like Melee, Project M or whatever, and thus don't give it a chance at all. And even worse still if we don't handle the first few months of this game's competitive scene well, because otherwise we'll get some dumb ruling or ban that's silly in retrospect, but takes ages to turn over because of stubbornness.

What I'm trying to say, is for both rusemasters and those in the Melee/PM community here, let's not try to tear down this game or ruin its image on day 1 just because it's different to what you normally play, or because it might take away focus from your game(s) you play a little. Let's give it a chance, let some tournies happen, and see how it goes. And if it goes as bad as/worse than Brawl, THEN I will go eat crow and humble pie.

The thing about it is even though I, Nintendo and many others would prefer that there was not a split in the base of this game... if the competitive people throw a fit over this game, and play something else, it maybe will lose the game 30-50k of sales. People don't seem to understand... this game has sold a million in less than a week. So in the end, if they don't want to come along for the ride, that's fine, the series will continue unabated. But I think a lot of pros are giving it a chance, and have been quite excited about it.

 

[Steelia]

I believe most hype has died out simply because of the Japanese release. People have eaten up everything they could about the game instead of waiting to experience it for themselves, and now don't really have as much to look forward to. No doubt hype'll spring back up when the game hits in October, happens every time. It's just a lull.

Myself, I'm not totally invested in the roster; hardly any of my faves made it in, or were even cut. The game looks like it plays very well, but it's still a pretty big downer for me.

 

[Viper Bite]

Code beggars, but that's pretty much over now.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I believe most hype has died out simply because of the Japanese release. People have eaten up everything they could about the game instead of waiting to experience it for themselves, and now don't really have as much to look forward to. No doubt hype'll spring back up when the game hits in October, happens every time. It's just a lull.

Myself, I'm not totally invested in the roster; hardly any of my faves made it in, or were even cut. The game looks like it plays very well, but it's still a pretty big downer for me.

That's to be expected. I still don't know why they didn't shoot for a worldwide release like Pokemon XY. That created a lot of hype for everyone (even if the final product was....eh).

I'm with you on the roster. Mega Man, Little Mac, and Jr/Koopalings are great, but the rest I'm either indifferent to or dislike.

 

[Naoshi]

I feel like smash fans should always accept any new installment of the game with open arms, instead of bashing it for its flaws.

I honestly don't agree. Even though I ended up loving Brawl and praised it when it first came out... but it was mostly due to hype. But even then the game always bored me after an hour each session when I first got it. Nowadays I have a hard time playing Brawl due to its sluggish physics (culprit of making it boring to me) and bad single player modes. I'd get into reasons why I feel this way about Brawl but that's aside the point. I'm a very casual Smasher but if the game feels very off and weird to me to the point it doesn't feel satisfying, then something is wrong. If I'm not having a lot of fun then I shouldn't accept it. This can apply to literally everything.

Before you ask, I don't find Brawl boring because it's "different", if you're interested in why I'm not a huge fan of Brawl then I'll elaborate in the next post. And to clear things up before people jump onto conclusions, Smash Bros 4's fighting felt very satisfying, quick and fun. Only issue is the annoying blast zone being too far in the demo, but it's not too bad to me. So I'm not hard to please!

tldr; People shouldn't accept something they don't like, even if they have legitimate reasons.

 

[Gabukin]

I honestly don't agree. Even though I ended up loving Brawl and praised it when it first came out... but it was mostly due to hype. But even then the game always bored me after an hour each session when I first got it. Nowadays I have a hard time playing Brawl due to its sluggish physics (culprit of making it boring to me) and bad single player modes. I'd get into reasons why I feel this way about Brawl but that's aside the point. I'm a very casual Smasher but if the game feels very off and weird to me to the point it doesn't feel satisfying, then something is wrong. If I'm not having a lot of fun then I shouldn't accept it. This can apply to literally everything.

Before you ask, I don't find Brawl boring because it's "different", if you're interested in why I'm not a huge fan of Brawl then I'll elaborate in the next post. And to clear things up before people jump onto conclusions, Smash Bros 4's fighting felt very satisfying, quick and fun. Only issue is the annoying blast zone being too far in the demo, but it's not too bad to me. So I'm not hard to please!

tldr; People shouldn't accept something they don't like, even if they have legitimate reasons.

My question is, Are you sure they are legitimate reasons or just pure bias?

Honestly brawl had its flaws, It had a LOT (Chain Grabs, Tripping, Slow & Floaty gameplay...Meta Knight) but with all of those flaws, I really enjoyed that game and still do to this day. Even though there were things I didn't like, I still accepted the game for what it was. And even if flaws are discovered in Smash 4 (Like the obnoxious blast zones) I will still accept it because its still smash.

 

[Pirate Goomba]

Some people need to learn how to make their own mind rather be influenced by everything other people say to any side of an augment. It's one thing to listen to others and gather information to check out then to let them control your decisions. This is not limited to gaming.

 

[Naoshi]

My question is, Are you sure they are legitimate reasons or just pure bias?

Honestly brawl had its flaws, It had a LOT (Chain Grabs, Tripping, Slow & Floaty gameplay...Meta Knight) but with all of those flaws, I really enjoyed that game and still do to this day. Even though there were things I didn't like, I still accepted the game for what it was. And even if flaws are discovered in Smash 4 (Like the obnoxious blast zones) I will still accept it because its still smash.

In what way would it be bias? I don't feel the excitement of how Brawl plays. It plays too sluggish and not satisfying enough for my liking to last a while. I can have fun with the game, but I cannot play for more than an hour most of the times without feeling bored. Yes, you (along many others) don't mind how the game feels overall, but some people like me feel differently. I don't even try to compare it to Melee or any other entries. I try to enjoy the game itself for what it is, but it's just not fun enough to keep me satisfied.

Meanwhile I can go back to any other Smash Bros games and enjoy them without feeling a sense of boredom. Even the SSB4 demo.

"It's ______" is not a reason I should 100% accept a game for what it is. No games should be immune to any kind of criticism. It all comes down to the overall quality of the product, not its brand name.

If you think slow and floaty physics is an illegitimate reason for someone to not enjoy the game enough, then I don't honestly know what to think of your logic. If you enjoy Brawl for what it is and don't feel bothered by any of its flaws, then more power to you. That's fine, I respect that. However, you should learn that people has different tastes and therefore reacts differently. We're human.

 

[Moldy Clay]

I have tons of negative feelings about various things ranging from Ice Climbers to Alph not just being a clone to some stage choices and trophy-related stuff.

However, my hype is at full blast.

Not even my own infuriated rants about Sakurai's idiotic decision-making can stop this hype train for me.

 

[Ffamran]

It's actually the opposite. It's optimism. People would never expect Sakurai to NOT include Mewtwo and Ridley, right? ...oh, he actually didn't. Well, surely Smash Run is online, it's such a big mode, after al--it's not. We sure are looking forward to another nice 25+ all new stages, aren't we? ...half of them are re-used or also in the Wii U version.

...sigh, at least it's a definitly a completely fresh game, right? Many voice and soundclips are re-used, it takes only Brawl's techs and removes even more of them, and 70% of the soundtrack is reused music or that damn main theme.

People had standards for Smash 4, acted like it was going to have so much cool new stuff in it. So much speculation, thrown into the pits for joke characters, no online, and lazy recycling of content. Is Smash 4 automaticly a bad game because it didn't live up to it's speculation? No, people just expected TOO much. They were optimistic.

Lots of games die because of this. It's a vicious cycle, really, where people hype up games so much that after playing them, they become disappointed quickly and start lashing out. Childish, really.

Final Fantasy XIII suffered because of this. People expected this giant, awesome game when in reality, it was more like Final Fantasy X where it was linear until mid-late game. Ironically, Final Fantasy XII was less linear - you can go anywhere, but don't expect to live - and people bashed it for that, its combat system where you prepare for fights, etc. Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III, to me, will probably suffer this as well. Mostly FFXV which is to many this "saving grace", "redemption", or even "the best thing since Final Fantasy VII". You will be sorely disappointed if you do that.

I think Battlefield 4 had a little hype-overload, Watch_Dogs even with its performance issues isn't that terrible, and the Operation Rainfall trio suffered as well. The Last Story was said to be decent at best, some didn't like Xenoblade: Chronicles at all, and Pandora's Tower played more like Zelda when people probably expected something else.

Then there's the opposite where hatred and negativity prevents the game from being appreciated at all. Case in point: DmC: Devil May Cry. All the blame went towards Ninja Theory when Capcom specifically asked for Ninja Theory to change Dante as drastic as possible. They even went for NT for story purposes and honestly, DmC's story is coherent, simple, and not a chaotic mess like the original Devil May Cry games. Then again, Capcom ignored plot so much that DMC ended up really messed up. Combat looks like its more like DMC1 and DMC4 combined. Nothing special, but nothing horrible like people make it out to be.

Don't get started on Pokémon. Everyone expects that Pokémon Red & Blue experience. That's your first Pokémon game, of course it's amazing. Nothing can replicate that. I messed around with Emerald, but nothing can replicate my first, legit journey in Pokémon X; my first Pokémon game. I will never expect other Pokémon games to be like that. It's illogical and hopeless. Will I expect a fun Pokémon game? Hell yeah. I won't expect a perfect game nor the best game since "best" doesn't exist when there's always a better game waiting to be made.

So far, Metal Gear Solid V has tried to show little as possible and leave everything to players experience. Is there hype? Yes, but core stuff like gameplay is shown and it's what a Metal Gear game or a stealth game would play out as, but with everything combined so you can manage Mother Base, do side missions, explore, etc. Nothing special, but nothing short of amazing.

Contrast that with the little tidbits and teases Square Enix has shown with Final Fantasy XV then Versus XIII. Man, people are really getting hyped up it's not funny because of the inevitable outcome of crushed dreams. I really, really hope SE does a stage demo, explains the core features, and just continue along because nobody wants another Final Fantasy XIII incident. If they show it as "this is what's the game's all about" and not the cinematic, "Holy crap!" stuff they've shown again, then FFXV might not get as much backlash from post-hype.

That's not to say it's all the developer's fault. It's our fault to for over-expecting things. Just enjoy the game for what it is. Have fun instead of expecting fun.

 

[Moldy Clay]

I think a lot of hype died due to the game being out and now we're just angsting since we can't play/judge everything ourselves. There's no more speculation, and that was what the hype was about.

What we have left is the Wii U version, but there's no date (officially). We know very little about it and what is exclusive to it. Just that it has like 20 stages so far, different trophies, some things are shared, and no Smash Run.

But most of us are just counting the days until we can play SSB3D for real and blew everything open for ourselves. All the trophies, songs, characters, stages, modes, items, ATs, challenges. All public.

The rest of the dead hype is from overhyping things that were never promised. Certain characters, stages, modes & things that individuals were certain were important to have in SSB. And getting mad about things not happening that we KNEW weren't going to happen (or could figure out) for nearly a year.

A lot of people also just can't grasp certain characters being part of Nintendo's history and just writing them off as a series of jokes, when they're not. Or clones, as if this is some new concept in fighting games.

 

[Naoshi]

Well, surely Smash Run is online, it's such a big mode, after al--it's not. We sure are looking forward to another nice 25+ all new stages, aren't we? ...half of them are re-used or also in the Wii U version.

I don't entirely disagree with your post, I feel half of it are right on the mark. Especially the character part, people did set themselves a bit too high of an expectations when they should just take their wanted character chances with a grain of salt. However...

I can't really blame the optimism here when Smash Run's status was very unclear. It kind of created a confusion from poor wording from other sites and magazines that it had online mode. So it became a debatable issue until Sakurai outright confirmed it has no online via twitter. I feel he should've stated it was local only right off the bat or something.

And as for the stage roster, the way it turned out to be is just very odd. A lot of franchises that had several handheld entries didn't get any new stages. I mean, even franchises that always gets new stages got nothing but returning ones. I mean... Yoshi? Star Fox? Metroid? Donkey Kong? Especially Wario and Game & Watch which are handheld-centric series? I can't really blame anyone for being disappointed in how that turned out.

 

[wannabe33]

The way people defend Smash 4 from critical voices, you'd think Nintendo was a non-profit and was handing out complimentary copies of Smash 4 on street corners.

Don't complain about the roster or you're entitled!
Don't speculate negatively about new mechanics or you're a Melee elitist!
Don't get exasperated over recycled content or you're a man-child!

I can't be too hard on the Smash community -- this "be grateful for what you get" attitude is prevalent in gaming culture at large. And it's ludicrous. Nintendo is a business. Businesses make money by providing consumers with what they want. If consumers don't get what they want, they complain. This is natural. This is healthy. This is what it's like to have quality standards.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be disappointed about Smash 4. Questionable roster choices abound. Questionable alternate costume choices abound. Many people aren't impressed by the speed or mechanics of the title. Many people are frustrated by an excess of returning stages on the 3DS version. Many people are annoyed Smash Run is local multiplayer only. And when the WiiU version rolls out, people are going to be disappointed about more things. Many of these complaints might even be justified!

Like Smash 4 if you want. Dislike Smash 4 if you want. If someone asks, be able to provide reasons for your like or dislike. Don't insult and mock people who disagree with you if their opinions are well thought-out. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Ehn Jolly]

Honestly I'm still super hyped for Smash, like I'm picking up it for 3ds, and for me, it feels like it'd be easy as hell to run tourneys for due to not needing a set up, so you could run them at the park (which I might) if you wanted. While my hype has waned a little, I figure the demo will help me get back into the spirit of things.

It's fine to be critical of things, although I feel like a lot of people are being 'bandwagon critical' instead of waiting to get the game and make their own decisions. There's so much 'vectoring is the devil' talk that just seems baseless (maybe it is horrible, I'll decide when I play it), but it honestly just seems to be a few people who keep doom saying about it.

I won't say you HAVE to be happy about the game, and some people aren't, but don't let it dull your hype.

Me, I'm still pretty damn hypenificient.