Is Peach nearly as good as she was in Melee?

[BrutalAudino]

Well, is she? I loved her in Melee, and I was sad that she got badly nerfed in Brawl. Did she improve in this game? Is she as powerful as her Melee incarnation?

 

[C4RDIN4L]

Well it's hard to compare sm4sh to melee, so i'll just say that where she falls on the roster compared to where she did in melee, she is much lower tier. i think this is mostly due to her speed and weight. her movement speed is too slow in this game so a lot of the better characters can run circles around her, but her combos are fantastic and she has a ton of kill options.

 

[PeachBooty]

Most people that know Peach pretty well would put her between 10-15th in this game, which out of 52, is pretty good. Melee she's 6th out of 26. So it's actually a lot closer than people would think.

 

[BoTastic!]

I think Peach is much lower than 10-15

She's probably 20-30th

 

[C4RDIN4L]

i wouldn't put her as low as 30th but i definitely wouldn't put her as high as 10th either. she's got a lot more potential than people give her credit for and her infinites are not utilized enough in tournament settings.

 

[BoTastic!]

The highest I could put her is 20-25. She has little to no options vs mobile characters/campy characters that can just wall her out. I do agree that she isn't terrible and she has potential her turnip infinite could probably do some work but the Peaches have to put in work to prove if it's even practical and effortless in a tournament environment.

I do wish that Zero's match with that Japanese peach player was recorded. I would have liked to see the set ups into it and the situations where the infinite was used. Even on a player like Zero.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Ugh. Hate seeing everyone rate her so low. She has soooo much going on and so much versatility in the right hands.

Then again Im not a tournament player so I have yet to face off against the pros using "higher tiered" or convenient characters. I feel like there is a lot of untapped potential either way and the tourney Peaches I have seen rely to heavily on certain moves and strats that distract them and create bad habits.

I know I have had to change my style several times over to beat my rival since this game came out and the beauty of Peach is the ability to change tactics on the fly and adjust. Most character dont even get to play so freely

 

[C4RDIN4L]

well i will say that peach has a very difficult time with zoners, but she does have ways of dealing with mobility. two of her best mus are fox and falcon, two of the most mobile characters in the game, and she has PLENTY of options against them. Peach is one of the most versatile characters in the game when it comes to approach options, combos and kill options. 15th is not out of the question for her, we just need more peach players to advance the meta. I'd say her toughest high tier mus are sheik, sonic, rosa and luigi. diddy's not that bad, zss is hard for me personally, but i think it's easier than sheik or sonic. and omg yoshi… as a peach main i feel it's necessary to have a second like mario or zss, because some mus are just too bad for her.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Thats my problem then. I have yet to really play a lot of those matchups against serious contenders.

I have fought Sonic online and I didnt have too much trouble (defense, patience, bait and punish). Yoshi is a nightmare for just about anyone... Seriously sick character in the right hands. Have only fought one good Shiek but I could see how Shiek is a menace.

My rival uses Ness who is a tough matchup (that I have adapted to 50% win rate against thankfully) and everyone else uses Mario, Zelda, Toon Link, Little Mac.

The one tournament level friend I know plays Wario and Duck Hunt Dog.... So yeah she does suffer against Zoners since I have yet to beat his Duck Hunt Dog....

Mid Tier is fair I guess. Still with enough Matchup practice and learning to change tactics at will goes a LONG way for a Peach Player.

 

[C4RDIN4L]

the problem with sonic is that if the sonic knows the mu and is a good player, you won't ever catch him. his spindash beats or parries turnips and if you plan on dairing him out of spin, good luck cause he can just jump and homing attack or fair. sonic is braindead and simple, but he's fast so catching a good one is very difficult.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

She is probably on par with her Brawl counterpart (as opposed to her Melee counterpart) in terms of how she fares in Smash 4.

Peach got a lot of nice new things - stronger Fair and F Smash, an F Smash that cycles, a new Peach Bomber which is actually worth using, Parasol KO's in Rage, a fantastic Bair (seriously this is probably my favourite Peach aerial)...I'm sure there's other stuff you could mention as well.

Unfortunately she got a few extremely important things taken away from her - for example, the new landing lag on Fair and Bair is very, very unpleasant. In particular, her Turnip game was heavily nerfed - as someone who came from playing her seriously in Brawl, her Turnip game in Smash 4 is absolutely ****ing dreadful:

- For those of you new to competitive Smash, Brawl Peach had a number of techs in which she could pull up Turnips whilst moving
- Most of these weren't hugely game changing (they did add movement options) but one of them in particular, Glide Tossing, allowed you to throw Turnips whilst sliding across the ground.
- Glide Tossing turned an otherwise lackluster projectile into a fantastic movement, punishment, approach, and escape option for her (I'd recommend looking a video of it up to see just how critical it was to Brawl Peach's game).
- Coupled with longer pull times, the loss of Glide Tossing (and before anyone mentions it Jump Cancelled Item Tossing is terrible so don't bring that up) and the fact that Turnips miss if you throw them OoS when standing next to someone (seriously wtf), Peach's Turnip game is utter trash


The new game mechanics also don't really work in her favour. The combined lack of shield stun, aerial landing lag and nerfed Jab range means her shield pressure isn't that scary any more and she's nowhere near as safe on shield as she used to be. Special mentions go to the new ledge system:

- Prior to Smash 4, if you grabbed the ledge, nobody else could grab it until you let go (or were knocked off).
- Peach in particular could use this to her advantage since a) her Turnips could interrupt enemies recovery, giving her time to grab the edge and stop a recovering opponent from grabbing it (and falling to their doom) and b) edgeguarding Peach by this method was extremely difficult thanks to Parasol's hitbox popping people off the ledge once their invincibility ran out. Both of these are now gone.


She has her fair share of uphill match ups as well - as @ BoTastic! mentioned, fast characters like Shiek, Fox, Pikachu and Falcon are difficult MUs, as well as characters with strong defensive walls like Mario, Luigi and Yoshi. She still has trouble killing - Fair gets stale quick and is arguably harder to land thanks to landing lag.


I absolutely think that she's viable in Smash 4 but she definitely has it tougher than some of the characters in Smash 4 (how anyone thought the likes of Shiek and Yoshi for example were't obviously stronger than the rest is beyond me...).

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think a lot of Peaches rely too heavily on Fair for kills

She has so many ways to kill and I think too many people spend a lot of time trying to setup Fairs. The problem is that while its a great move its too slow and predictable and every MU expects you to throw it out.

You can kill with Dash, Up Air, Toad Counter (not enough people have mastered this). All my Fox kills came from Dash Attack punishes LOL.

She also has a Dash Dance (is thats what its called?) Its pretty useful for covering ground quickly and you can convert it into fast smashes (not a safe approach but something to note) more accurate grabs and more.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think a lot of Peaches rely too heavily on Fair for kills

She has so many ways to kill and I think too many people spend a lot of time trying to setup Fairs. The problem is that while its a great move its too slow and predictable and every MU expects you to throw it out.

You can kill with Dash, Up Air, Toad Counter (not enough people have mastered this). All my Fox kills came from Dash Attack punishes LOL.

I had a kill today against a good (but bit salty) Fox-player that came from using U-Tilt - though by Rage. But I agree. F-Air has become easily countered or anticipated by people, so I also had to use Dash Magic now and then to secure kills. Up-Air is fine too but it's a lot based on conditioning the opponent to set up for clear read when on air. You can also make 'em guess with charging your F-Smash like Tennis Racket or Golf Club. Near ledge they're deadly awesome.

Also Toad is good, but again, with it being a counter-move, has to be very well set-up and might be best a mix-up killing tool.

 

[BoTastic!]

@ Rickerdy-doo-da-day pretty much sums up why Peach isn't that great. I personally think she's a lot better than Brawl Peach though because I think the top tiers in this game aren't as polarizing as the top tiers in the previous game.

@ DrROBschiz It's true that peach has other kill options but your opponent will probably kill you first. Upsmash needs hard reads and Dash attack is only killing at very high %. Dtilt>Up B can be escaped since you can actually tech the dtilt. Fair is undoubtedly her best kill move but even that is hard to hit because of it's speed. and the fact that staling is the dumbest mechanic I've seen :/

 

[IrrationalX]

I think Peach is a viable character - definitely not as notable as her Melee counterpart, but I'd say she's gotten the necessary boost from Brawl to make her a character worth playing. BUT, that being said, I think in order to play Peach well, you need to understand exactly which situations are good for her skill set, and how to get kills properly. I'm a high pressure player as Peach, and I like to force out situations in which you can hit her Up-smash (which I think is a better kill move than F-air in most situations). That, and you need to have the guts to use the float properly and chase foes off the stage: off-stage, Peach can kill quite easily with her F-air, as well as gimp characters with her turnips.

But hey, I'm a pretty unabashed Peach fanboy, and I'll rate her higher than most. I think it's the amount of time I've put into the character, and I can't possibly think she's bad.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think Peach is a viable character - definitely not as notable as her Melee counterpart, but I'd say she's gotten the necessary boost from Brawl to make her a character worth playing. BUT, that being said, I think in order to play Peach well, you need to understand exactly which situations are good for her skill set, and how to get kills properly. I'm a high pressure player as Peach, and I like to force out situations in which you can hit her Up-smash (which I think is a better kill move than F-air in most situations). That, and you need to have the guts to use the float properly and chase foes off the stage: off-stage, Peach can kill quite easily with her F-air, as well as gimp characters with her turnips.

But hey, I'm a pretty unabashed Peach fanboy, and I'll rate her higher than most. I think it's the amount of time I've put into the character, and I can't possibly think she's bad.

No you make great points!

Her offstage game is incredible and her recovery sets her up to do things offstage that other characters cant do. I have lots of success offstage (toad countering hitbox recovering is the most satisfying kill ever) but you run into problems with teleporting characters :/

 

[CNMNE]

No. Peach isn't nearly as good as she was in Melee....

But that doesn't mean ANYTHING! In Melee, Peach was insane. Now she's just awesome! With amazing frame data and a surprisingly easy-to-use slew of true combos, Peach is underrated and under-used in sm4sh. Maybe people gave up on her after she stopped being Melee Peach?

 

[Ravine]

Will Peach will forever be doomed to melee the comparisons?
I think I'll just switch mains because it is just too dreadful being constantly reminded that she is "not a good character anymore."

 

[DrROBschiz]

The competitive community has gotten cynical after melee. There is sooo much meat on the bone for Smash 4. I am learning new ways to win with Peach all the time

She is Top Tier in my book but that doesn't mean a whole lot since I think Smash 4 has the most balanced roster of any Smash game in existence

 

[IrrationalX]

Will Peach will forever be doomed to melee the comparisons?
I think I'll just switch mains because it is just too dreadful being constantly reminded that she is "not a good character anymore."

Man, never do something like that. Play Peach because you like to play her, and be proud of it.

 

[LastTheories]

I think that if we draw parallels to melee, we should also consider the fact that peach wasn't a top tier (I mean S tier not A tier) character from the start. Her metagame needed to be explored.

Same thing with smash 4 peach, I honestly think she's among the best. However, the main thing holding us back is that we don't have as many people furthering our meta as other characters. So to answer your question: It's possible, but it may take a while. We'll get there eventually.

 

[Yonder]

The best player in my region of BC, Big D, mains Peach.That's something...

 

[Meru.]

I think Peach is a high tier character, around top 10-15. She's completely different from both Melee and Brawl: comparing her to her previous iterations won't do any good. She's a character that

• is relatively safe,
• has fast moves,
• has good range on most of her attacks,
• has decent kill options,
• has a good combo game
• has an amazing pressure game,
• has a scary edgeguarding game
• has a good projectile that can combo into kills
• etc etc.

That said, Peach comes with her weaknesses such as

• slow mobility
• landings that are relatively easy to punish
• being somewhat light
• being somewhat reliant on jumps
• high learning curve (not exactly a weakness but a higher learning curve means it will take you longer to get good results)

I feel neither of these weaknesses are fatal and all of them are overcomable. However, her weaknesses are quite abusable by other characters, even by those who aren't that good, which is why I think she has mostly even match-ups instead of have a lot of favorable match-ups vs lower tiers. In exchange I think she has very few losing match-ups inclusing those with higher tiers, which is what makes her a good character.

As for your question, she isn't as good as her Melee counterpart, and that's for the better because Melee is a very unbalanced game.

 

[PeachBooty]

I think Peach is a high tier character, around top 10-15. She's completely different from both Melee and Brawl: comparing her to her previous iterations won't do any good. She's a character that

• is relatively safe,
• has fast moves,
• has good range on most of her attacks,
• has decent kill options,
• has a good combo game
• has an amazing pressure game,
• has a scary edgeguarding game
• has a good projectile that can combo into kills
• etc etc.

That said, Peach comes with her weaknesses such as

• slow mobility
• landings that are relatively easy to punish
• being somewhat light
• being somewhat reliant on jumps
• high learning curve (not exactly a weakness but a higher learning curve means it will take you longer to get good results)

I feel neither of these weaknesses are fatal and all of them are overcomable. However, her weaknesses are quite abusable by other characters, even by those who aren't that good, which is why I think she has mostly even match-ups instead of have a lot of favorable match-ups vs lower tiers. In exchange I think she has very few losing match-ups inclusing those with higher tiers, which is what makes her a good character.

As for your question, she isn't as good as her Melee counterpart, and that's for the better because Melee is a very unbalanced game.

Thank you so much for posting this! I was waiting for somebody else to post something like this, lol.

However, am I the only Peach player that has never had any problems with her speed and mobility in this game? Most people I play against end up thinking Peach is actually pretty fast (at least in close combat) after I play them. Maybe it's just the way I play her. The only problems I have with her speed, is just her fall speed because her biggest weakness by far is being juggled in the air way too easily. Even with that, she still has the best movement options in the game.

 

[Meru.]

Thank you so much for posting this! I was waiting for somebody else to post something like this, lol.

However, am I the only Peach player that has never had any problems with her speed and mobility in this game? Most people I play against end up thinking Peach is actually pretty fast (at least in close combat) after I play them. Maybe it's just the way I play her. The only problems I have with her speed, is just her fall speed because her biggest weakness by far is being juggled in the air way too easily. Even with that, she still has the best movement options in the game.

I know what you mean. Thank to her float her movement is flexible and pretty fast. By doing quick floats you can cancel your dash, or you can quickly fast fall to the ground from a jump (jump > float > fastfall immediately). These tricks make her game faster, improve her spacing game and only she can do them.

However, her mobility, as in the time it takes to reach point B from point A, is slow because of her slow walking, running and air speed. This is the main reason people have trouble dealing with projectiles. Characters with fast running speed usually don't have as much trouble because they can be in their opponents faces before they even throw out their projectile. To experience how slow she is, try playing characters with fast mobility like Fox, Little Mac, Sheik or ZSS till you have forgotten how a slow character feels. Then, pick Peach again and you'll realize her mobility is pretty slow.

 

[PeachBooty]

I know what you mean. Thank to her float her movement is flexible and pretty fast. By doing quick floats you can cancel your dash, or you can quickly fast fall to the ground from a jump (jump > float > fastfall immediately). These tricks make her game faster, improve her spacing game and only she can do them.

However, her mobility, as in the time it takes to reach point B from point A, is slow because of her slow walking, running and air speed. This is the main reason people have trouble dealing with projectiles. Characters with fast running speed usually don't have as much trouble because they can be in their opponents faces before they even throw out their projectile. To experience how slow she is, try playing characters with fast mobility like Fox, Little Mac, Sheik or ZSS till you have forgotten how a slow character feels. Then, pick Peach again and you'll realize her mobility is pretty slow.

I second ZSS, and she's too fast for me actually, lol. I have trouble controlling her at times. Peach is the perfect speed for me. I know what you're saying, but I've personally never been like, "She's just too slow." at any given moment in any match I've ever had. Same goes for her turnip pull, tbh. The juggling is the only thing I've ever had a problem with...

 

[BoTastic!]

Peach is very slow. I'm surprised you haven't noticed to be honest.

She's like 30ish in fastest aerial movement and She has the 2nd slowest fall speed to my knowledge.

@ M Meru. Peach has a lot going for her like you said but I still really think her weaknesses hold her back so much. The game favors characters with fast running speed, a good keep away game, good rolls, etc. Peach struggles with all of this. Especially Characters with a good keep away game.

I do believe she has potential though. More so in doubles in my opinion than singles. I think she's top 15 in doubles simply for the fact that you have less room to camp her out and she's already fantastic at mix up and pressure. But she doesn't have a good frontal approach since dash attack requires commitment, Nair lacks range, her grab range isn't great, her fair is slow, and jumping is generally bad in this game. I see Peach's metagame in the future moving towards a mixture of LLod's defensive play and Crow's aggressive style of play. Peach can't really safely commit to anything but since she has a good mix up game and a great punish game, she can somewhat be a threat in high level play.

I also need to look into the Japanese Peach players more tbh. I think they're pushing the character further than we are. I'm trying my best to do what I can with her though because I enjoy the amount of depth she has.

 

[clydeaker]

Lets just say Peach is the most Middle tier character in Smash 4

 

[PeachBooty]

Lets just say Peach is the most Middle tier character in Smash 4

That was Brawl. She was 19th out of 37, literally smack dab in the middle... but Brawl was so unbalanced that anybody that wasn't high tier was deemed trash.

In this game, it's Pit... Peach is far better than him, and has way more potential. She's easily top 20, and I still think she's top 15.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Are you guys using tap dashes to increase her ground mobility?

Its not the best option all the time but it allows me to close in much faster than a standard dash in certain situations.

Peach is just too versatile to rule out. I think she has the best option selections of any character in the game

 

[Thinktron]

That was Brawl. She was 19th out of 37, literally smack dab in the middle... but Brawl was so unbalanced that anybody that wasn't high tier was deemed trash.

In this game, it's Pit... Peach is far better than him, and has way more potential. She's easily top 20, and I still think she's top 15.

Pit is high tier.

 

[PeachBooty]

Pit is high tier.

This post was made over 3 months ago, and he's still not that good, lol.

 

[Thinktron]

This post was made over 3 months ago, and he's still not that good, lol.

faster, and better frame data than peach, has more range and a recovery that's just as good. i was simply correcting you

 

[PeachBooty]

faster, and better frame data than peach, has more range and a recovery that's just as good. i was simply correcting you

Peach has way better combos, kill power, throws, and edge-guarding. See... I can list generic reasons to why a character is better than another as well... Trying to defend a character like Pit in the Peach boards, lol. Facepalm... He's the epitome of average and boring. Trying to defend Pit, is like trying to defend a sack of Potatoes... Is he better than mid-tier? Probably, but at least I don't go out of my way to respond to a 3 month old post, in order to "correct" someone on something that is clearly opinion based... Lmao, next plz!

 

[Thinktron]

Peach has way better combos, kill power, throws, and edge-guarding. See... I can list generic reasons to why a character is better than another as well... Trying to defend a character like Pit in the Peach boards, lol. Facepalm... He's the epitome of average and boring. Trying to defend Pit, is like trying to defend a sack of Potatoes... Is he better than mid-tier? Probably, but at least I don't go out of my way to respond to a 3 month old post, in order to "correct" someone on something that is clearly opinion based... Lmao, next plz!

I dont see how the age of the post matters, especially if you still considered it relevant, just saying most people rank pit a lot higher than mid, usually placed with r.o.b and Lucario, in top of high tier

"In this game, it's Pit" is what you said not "i personally believe that Pit is"
___________

On the other hand i think peach is defiantly In the top half of the roster, she loses to a good chunk of people but is still defiantly viable on her own, And if your lucky to pull out an item or a stitch then peach briefly has a solid advantage over pretty much everyone.

 

[Meru.]

This thread is old and has served its purpose.

Let's also be a bit less aggressive when responding to each other.