Demoncannon
Smash Ace
ok well everyone thinks differently in different cases.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Is Ike as bad a character as people say he is?
- Thread starter Oldskool
- Start date
geemann2236
Smash Journeyman
No, he's bad. In a one on one battle, Ike CANNOT hold his own. His moves activate so slowly that it is almost impossible for him to hit with them.
I imagine the "slowness" everyone is referring to could be compared to playing a melee bowser on a laggy tv. Not only is there a demand for taking time to compensate the slower move, but also the lag that the tv puts on the move. I know any technical player out there knows what it's like to try to play on a laggy tv.... it feels like you are playing underwater, everything is bogged down; it is IMPOSSIBLE to play quickly (and playing quickly does not mean you need to be a quick character). I really hope that playing Ike doesn't feel like you're going to drown, but from the e4 reports and video footage, Ike does not appear to have the capacity for competitive gameplay. Based on e4, we could definitely assert at least two theories (if anyone has any other distinct ones that aren't variations, let me know) to why this is:
1. The demo was indeed buggy, and Ike's superarmor (or another one of his assets) was heavily affected, making him outrageously unwieldy. This could very well be true, considering how noticeable this was when comparing him to how balanced every other character appeared to be to one another with the exception of him(at least based on the reports). I wouldn't be surprised that Nintendo winged a demo to appease their fanbased because of another delay and couldn't filter all the bugs out of it in time. Hopefully this is the case.
2. The Ike in e4 is indeed the character the programmer's intended us to play. Its kind of hard to miss something as obvious as how slow Ike is when you spend years developing a game- I'm sure everyone on the development team is well aware of how laggy his moveset is, how bad his recovery is, how he will matchup to every single character. I mean we found this out within 4 days of playing a demo that was restricted to 2 minute matches; I'm pretty sure if it’s that on the surface, the programmers intended it to be that way. If this is the case, what does it say about their intentions for brawl when it comes to competitive gameplay? If they could ignore one character as badly as they've seemed to do with Ike, is the gameplay ultimately going to turnout as ill-thought or shallow? I hope not, but it could be something to consider when looking at what we've seen from Ike so far.
1. The demo was indeed buggy, and Ike's superarmor (or another one of his assets) was heavily affected, making him outrageously unwieldy. This could very well be true, considering how noticeable this was when comparing him to how balanced every other character appeared to be to one another with the exception of him(at least based on the reports). I wouldn't be surprised that Nintendo winged a demo to appease their fanbased because of another delay and couldn't filter all the bugs out of it in time. Hopefully this is the case.
2. The Ike in e4 is indeed the character the programmer's intended us to play. Its kind of hard to miss something as obvious as how slow Ike is when you spend years developing a game- I'm sure everyone on the development team is well aware of how laggy his moveset is, how bad his recovery is, how he will matchup to every single character. I mean we found this out within 4 days of playing a demo that was restricted to 2 minute matches; I'm pretty sure if it’s that on the surface, the programmers intended it to be that way. If this is the case, what does it say about their intentions for brawl when it comes to competitive gameplay? If they could ignore one character as badly as they've seemed to do with Ike, is the gameplay ultimately going to turnout as ill-thought or shallow? I hope not, but it could be something to consider when looking at what we've seen from Ike so far.
Ragnell94
Smash Cadet
most of the people ive talked to have said that ike was the strongest charecter in the ssb's serires. now i dont think thats true but i no that once your used to him he will b good
Hong
The Strongest
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2004
- Messages
- 23,550
Oh, there's no doubt in that. We have never seen anything as powerful as Ike before. He puts Bowser to shame in the strength compartment. Though his disadvantages completely outweight his notable quality. He is too slow as it stands to utilize his strength.
I personally don't think invisible delay is supposed to be there. If I was a developer, I would want it to be situated with the startup lag. I personally think they'll change this. To either make it part of the startup animation or get rid of that invisible delay period. If it is "supposed to be a character quality to make him less predictable", then it'd be longer than it is.
Chaosblade77
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,958
It also wouldn't be on practically every attack, so he would at least have some a fast character is rushing toward him. Otherwise... just hope Super Armor kicks in.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Just because you think differently doesn't make your thinking any better. Some ideas are better than others. The fact of the matter is that Ike is a bad character but a beast when it comes to strength. His up-smash is epic. We should be hoping for speed buff, more Super Armor, and a better recovery.
PSIguy89
Smash Ace
well chins up! still have a while to go.........i still think that if one gets enough time with Ike you could work with him
The Dragon
Smash Journeyman
Based on what i've read.. here are my thoughts. Those still defending Ike at this juncture have that start up lag too apparently. The people who actually PLAYED the game have stated that there is a hesitation before the attacks even start, meaning you press A... then nothing happens (aka Ike is motionless)... then the attack starts ... then the attack hits, most likely this is a bug since the game played was a DEMO. But this could very well be Ike's completed version. Moral of the story is, seasoned vets have deemed Ike garbage, so Ike fanboys and fangirls suck it up, stop trying to save a lost cause from a demo and pray
p.s. I'm a lover a Fire Emblem too and would be more than a little happy to changes in Ike myself
p.s. I'm a lover a Fire Emblem too and would be more than a little happy to changes in Ike myself
MarthFanatique
Smash Journeyman
I don't think he's going to be "bad", but as hard to master. Like Bowser, the first time I (and many of my friends) first played him, the lack of speed killed us. Same thing with Marth, but in the oppostie perspective; his higher speed and slight lack of power is hard to get used to. But once one can assimilate to his characteristics and perfect them, Marth (or any character) is almost unstoppable.
Cless
Smash Champion
You do realize that Marth is high tier?
The Dragon
Smash Journeyman
yes i agree, you can't pick up a character in a matter of a few days, but i think you missing the real issue here, as stated in earlier posts Ike's general slowless / lack of speed instant the problem but rather the delay in his reaction to you telling him to attack... i don't know exactly how long it was since I didn't play the game but this hesitation is what killed it for people who played him at E4all.. this came from pros and even one who mains Bowser(Gimpy), who was your comparison.
actually that poses a good question, about how long exactly was the delay?
actually that poses a good question, about how long exactly was the delay?
MarthFanatique
Smash Journeyman
dumb question, but: You said Marth is in a high tier, but how are the tiers calculated and/or where are they found?
MarthFanatique
Smash Journeyman
you wanna supply a link cuz' I've been lookin' for a little bit, and I haven't had any luck *hide my face* thx
http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Tier_List
There you find the tier list and other infromation.
It's better then searching through the whole Meleeboard.
I really hope that the invisible lag was unintended and will be fixed :/
The Dragon
Smash Journeyman
getting back on topic i think Ike is gonna be a monster in brawl from what i've head of his strengh i have a feeling he will be a force to be reconned(probably spelled wrong) with as for the hesitation thing im almost positive thats a glitch, speaking a programmers standpoint seeing as how i am one. Anyway just my thoughts.
MarthFanatique
Smash Journeyman
thx for the link, Ferret.
Hopefull he wont just own free for alls. I am worried about him, but if he has just a few fast moves, it'll be good, though I just hope I dont accidently do a slow move I'll regret with him. I did that with Ganondorf way more than I should of (curse you up tilt).
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
Ah.. the up tilt with Ganondorf... I believe that moved cost me the game with my friend last night. Quite sad when you were going to just knock him back for a quick combo and then the up tilt happens.. and you like "Oh NOs" Then you die...
He got lucky this time. So with Ike, going to have to remember to pick moves carefully and purposefully... With out.. you are fair game for combos.
He got lucky this time. So with Ike, going to have to remember to pick moves carefully and purposefully... With out.. you are fair game for combos.
Hallowed Storm
Smash Journeyman
If Ike's speed doesn't change, people will have to do a lot of training with him to even stand a chance against other players. They'd have to choose attacks carefully and make sure they weren't hasty with getting the match over with. As long as Ike could wait for the right moment to strike, he could probably do a considerable amount of damage. I realize, however, that this is easier said than done.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
It will require a lot of prediction to play as Ike if they don't change him.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
Yay for mind games... I already play enough of those with dash dancing and countering with Marth. I should be able to get a hang of the timing and predicting. Hopefully
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
Ike's dashdance is probably garbage. Or pretty bad seeing how he moves so slow.
Cless
Smash Champion
His running speed is fine. It's his attacks that are slow.
Jisike
Smash Journeyman
His dash dance didnt seem that great to me, but i didnt play him at all. i was a little distracted with another character if you couldnt tell....
Think link if you want a comparison.
Think link if you want a comparison.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
Link has a crappy DD, and Ike's moving speed is slower I think.
Cless
Smash Champion
Eh, I'll just wait till the game comes out to find out. it's difficult to see anything concrete in most of the videos.
brandutt845
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2006
- Messages
- 128
AMEN TO THAT. Once people use him alot, they wont care. I've seen people pwn with DK and Bowser in Melee tournies. Ike is on their level at this point, AND he has fast Specials. That's a LITTLE better.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I'm pretty sure dashdancing is one of the primary mindgaming methods in melee.
5150
Banned via Administration
dashdancing < wd'ingI'm pretty sure dashdancing is one of the primary mindgaming methods in melee.
unless your cfalcon or fox.
Xarias
Smash Journeyman
IN MELEE!I'm pretty sure dashdancing is one of the primary mindgaming methods in melee.
Maybe not in Brawl. Remember guys, its a different game.
Firebert
Smash Ace
He is very slow, slower even than Roy 
5150
Banned via Administration
lol a worse game ya.
UNLESS we break the **** out of it. guys im counting on you to make thsi game more broken than melee!
Cranberry Rogue
Smash Journeyman
Man, how could would it be if Ike could toss his sword at different angles during his Up-B attack, so instead of simply throwing it straight up, he'd be able to do it diagonally as well? It'd fix the whole horizontal problem, and could make for some pretty interesting strategies.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
That could prove to be quite difficult... since they tried to think of everything. And in a few aspects, did think of everything.
Those were my thoughts exactly when i saw his original recovery. I was thinking maybe the people playing didn't try that at all, But then again.. maybe they did and it didn't work. Just saying, the angled sword throw would be a welcomed change before the game is released.
Vincent Vega
Smash Journeyman
How do you not include Marth in that? o_0