• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Is Hbox the GOAT?

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
To be honest, even though I don't consider the GOAT and #1 player the same, they're very similar imo. Sure Ken has a better legacy, but Ken, even in his prime, would still lose to HBox
They aren't similar at all. "Sure Ken has a better legacy." That is the literal definition of the Goat. The #1 player is the player who is the most skilled right now. The Goat is the person who has achieved the most and had the greatest legacy.

Hbox would have to dominate everyone he faces for the next 2 years to be even considered in the discussion. Armada, Mango, and Ken have all been indisputably the best players for years at a time.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Well I guess it's just different definitions.
Wait, GOAT doesn't mean greatest one at the time?

:troll:

Ken had a longer legacy but his skill level was such trash compared to mango during mango's legacy that people tend to weigh actual skill into the equation. It's hard to say what is what lol.
 

zuloon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
415
For those of you who are still not convinced, what would it take for you to admit that Hbox is the GOAT?
 

AugsEU

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
66
He has to get a legacy of a few years before becoming the GOAT.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
Given Hungrybox's beginnings I'm not sure GOAT would ever be applicable. It's hard to consider someone the greatest of all time if they didn't win a legit super major until like 7-8 years in (yes he won apex 2010, but mango entered as Mario and after the tournament was over they played and Hbox got destroyed by all of mango's characters).
 

AugsEU

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
66
Given Hungrybox's beginnings I'm not sure GOAT would ever be applicable. It's hard to consider someone the greatest of all time if they didn't win a legit super major until like 7-8 years in (yes he won apex 2010, but mango entered as Mario and after the tournament was over they played and Hbox got destroyed by all of mango's characters).
What? How does that have anything to do with being the GOAT? So if someone joins the Smash Scene when they are 25, can they never be the GOAT because they sucked at at Smash for 25 years?

The GOAT title is to do with their peak performance. The question is, is current Hbox the Greatest Of All Time.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Definitely different definitions here. To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT of basketball. It definitely has to do with legacy imo.
 

AugsEU

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
66
Yeah but you can make a legacy from a run regardless of your past.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Yeah but you can make a legacy from a run regardless of your past.
True but hbox hasn't done that yet. The thread is too early imo.

If you only have to be best for a small time I'd cherry-pick hax's best set and claim he's the goat lol.
 
Last edited:

AugsEU

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
66
I agree.

But the hype is real, I can't wait to see how long he can keep this up.
 

zuloon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
415
Wow. I gotta say the fact that Hbox played relatively poorly at WTFox just proves that you can be the GOAT and still have off days. He's still #1 in my book by far.
 

flacofaloc

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 4, 2014
Messages
36
Location
over there
not the goat but really good rn

doesn't have the history of mango or armada. the only 2 true potential goats at this point of time
 

Mr Snak3_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
75
Mango is already too established as the goat since the Internet made it easier to spread around information.
Respect to hbox though.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Hbox's claim to fame is the fact that he's done everything he's done with jiggs. His wins alone don't justify the title "GOAT".
 

EnigmaticScarecrow

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
38
Location
Spokane
How can anyone possibly determine who is the GOAT if only recent tournaments are the ones being examined?
Because players get better. Example: Leffen as of recent is far better than Ken in his prime, so even though Ken has won more tournaments, Leffen is still better despite being less accomplished in terms of tournament wins.

Bottom line, greatest for the time =/= greatest of all time.
 

zuloon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
415
This is Zuloon reporting in from EVO, where HBox just eviscerated Mango with a definitive set that essentially sent the message to Mango that "You have to go back." Mango fans, take heart. It's just one tournament. Mango is still the FPM - 4th place master.
 
Last edited:

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Recent losses to m2k and getting 3-0'd by wizzy doesn't help the goat argument. Gotta count everything. Him and armada were neck n neck those last sets too. All due respect to hbox, the term goat is still jumping the gun a bit.
 

Vrbtm

Banned via Administration
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
403
GOAT? No.

Best player in the world at this moment? Yes.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
GOAT? No.

Best player in the world at this moment? Yes.
Maybe. He won low tier city 4, beating mango. Then he won CEO, beating m2k. Then he placed 5th at wtfox 2 losing to m2k and got 3-0'd by wizzy while armada placed 2nd. Now he wins evo after getting 2-0'd by Plup, but only barely squeaked by armada.

So the last two tournaments armada got 2nd both times and hbox got 5th and 1st. I just don't see the evidence that he's definitely currently better than Armada. I'm not a hbox hater, if anything I'm a Plup/wizzy/Colbol fan but I don't hate anyone, just calling it how I see it.

If he keeps this up though, even if he's just barely winning, it'll soon be undeniable he's best.
 
Last edited:

zuloon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
415
Maybe. He won low tier city 4, beating mango. Then he won CEO, beating m2k. Then he placed 5th at wtfox 2 losing to m2k and got 3-0'd by wizzy while armada placed 2nd. Now he wins evo after getting 2-0'd by Plup, but only barely squeaked by armada.

So the last two tournaments armada got 2nd both times and hbox got 5th and 1st. I just don't see the evidence that he's definitely currently better than Armada. I'm not a hbox hater, if anything I'm a Plup/wizzy/Colbol fan but I don't hate anyone, just calling it how I see it.

If he keeps this up though, even if he's just barely winning, it'll soon be undeniable he's best.
Oh my God. Haters really are gonna hate.

"Oh yeah he won but it doesn't really count"

You can believe whatever you want dude, but it's clear that HBox is the GOAT.
 
Last edited:

Rohaun

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
7
Oh my God. Haters really are gonna hate.

"Oh yeah he won but it doesn't really count"

You can believe whatever you want dude, but it's clear that HBox is the GOAT.
What exactly is your definition of GOAT? I agree that Hbox's reign is beginning, but to call him the GOAT so soon when people like Armada and Mango have had better legacies is going to raise some eyebrows. Legacies matter, you can not deny that. And when it comes to legacies, Hbox doesn't hold a candle to either of them. Also, calling someone a "hater" when they specifically state that they're not a hater of any smasher doesn't really help your argument as well.

But to answer this question originally stated in the beginning of the thread, no; I do not think Hbox is the GOAT. Not yet. But is he the best at this moment? Probably.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
Maybe. He won low tier city 4, beating mango. Then he won CEO, beating m2k. Then he placed 5th at wtfox 2 losing to m2k and got 3-0'd by wizzy while armada placed 2nd. Now he wins evo after getting 2-0'd by Plup, but only barely squeaked by armada.

So the last two tournaments armada got 2nd both times and hbox got 5th and 1st. I just don't see the evidence that he's definitely currently better than Armada. I'm not a hbox hater, if anything I'm a Plup/wizzy/Colbol fan but I don't hate anyone, just calling it how I see it.

If he keeps this up though, even if he's just barely winning, it'll soon be undeniable he's best.
Armada hasn't won a tourney since Summit 2, Hbox has been going to stuff and winning, and they both had one bad fifth placing recently. I'm sure if it were mango you wouldn't think less of his win because he got 2-0'd by Westballz and then came back through losers. Maybe you say Hbox has value in his consistency and this undermines that, but maybe it shows he can keep it together and play really well in losers which is something he hasn't proved before to the same extent. Personally I don't really see a great reason for keeping armada as number one at the moment

Although I still think this thread is ridiculous

Also note armada does not have a winning record against any of the other top 4 while Hbox's only losing record is Leffen (0-1).
 
Last edited:

mangojuice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
23
Location
New York, NY
Everything is relative. Ken played in a different "era" of smash just like HBox etc played in a different "era". It's like comparing NBA players of today to players ofr 30 years ago. You're average big man today would probably wreck a good/great big man from years ago. NFL players same deal. Players are bigger, faster, etc.

Greatest of all time is something that is relative to his/her time period. Ken was far better than anyone else for far longer - relative to his peers at the time. It's the same way Michael Jordan is the GOAT - not because Kobe/Lebron could or couldn't beat him 1v1. But MJ was by far the undisputed best in his time and brought more to the game than anyone today. It's all relative.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Oh my God. Haters really are gonna hate.

"Oh yeah he won but it doesn't really count"

You can believe whatever you want dude, but it's clear that HBox is the GOAT.
I'm not hating lol, you're just blind.

Dolla Pills Dolla Pills I wasn't looking at the entire year. Someone mentioned who is "currently" the best so I looked at the past month or so.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
Dolla Pills Dolla Pills I wasn't looking at the entire year. Someone mentioned who is "currently" the best so I looked at the past month or so.
Still even if you look back a month or so he hasn't won a tournament and hasn't won a set against Hbox mango or Leffen in that time period when all have taken at least one from him
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Still even if you look back a month or so he hasn't won a tournament and hasn't won a set against Hbox mango or Leffen in that time period when all have taken at least one from him
He was one hit away from winning in 2 sets. Sure a win is a win, but it's sad so many players can only mentally process a W or an L. Actually watching sets helps. And remember, I agreed that "maybe" hbox is the best, and only said I don't see evidence that hbox is "definitely" the best currently. As in, all in saying is it's still arguable. But of course, considering the makeup of this community, I will labeled a hater, which is comical. I'm just not one to think that one set means much more than it actually does. I've been analyzing melee far too long (the actual content of sets) to be that narrow-minded. Statistics tell only a small bit of the story. It's like reading a summary of a novel and doing a book report, thinking your report will automatically be just as good as someone's who actually read the book. Lol.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
He was one hit away from winning in 2 sets. Sure a win is a win, but it's sad so many players can only mentally process a W or an L. Actually watching sets helps. And remember, I agreed that "maybe" hbox is the best, and only said I don't see evidence that hbox is "definitely" the best currently. As in, all in saying is it's still arguable. But of course, considering the makeup of this community, I will labeled a hater, which is comical. I'm just not one to think that one set means much more than it actually does. I've been analyzing melee far too long (the actual content of sets) to be that narrow-minded. Statistics tell only a small bit of the story. It's like reading a summary of a novel and doing a book report, thinking your report will automatically be just as good as someone's who actually read the book. Lol.
That's fair. I'd personally still give the edge to Hbox based on his sets with mango and overall more active year, but I see what you mean
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
That's fair. I'd personally still give the edge to Hbox based on his sets with mango and overall more active year, but I see what you mean
Hbox being on top is the easy assessment, I definitely think it's a good one. It may seem like I'm just playing devil's advocate but I'm just trying to shed light on things that most people tend to forget from focusing too much on the outcome and not the content (not saying you're one of them).
 

Sprenzy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
93
I'm back! After a thorough analysis of every single Melee match in history, I can now officially confirm that HBox is the GOAT.
do you have a playlist on all those matches? I need them
 

Ravengeance

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
134
Location
Upstate NY
NNID
Ravengeance
NO. I think his win at EVO and his results for all of 2016 put him as the best in the world right now. But I don't think that essentially half a year of being the best is remotely enough to be considered the GOAT. Longevity plays a big role in having that honor.
 

Don De La Gato

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 11, 2016
Messages
13
Location
Bermuda//UK
Because players get better. Example: Leffen as of recent is far better than Ken in his prime, so even though Ken has won more tournaments, Leffen is still better despite being less accomplished in terms of tournament wins.

Bottom line, greatest for the time =/= greatest of all time.
That's really shaky logic considering that the phrase "Greatest of all time" includes *all time*. In other words, longevity is needed to truly attain that title.
 
Top Bottom