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They aren't similar at all. "Sure Ken has a better legacy." That is the literal definition of the Goat. The #1 player is the player who is the most skilled right now. The Goat is the person who has achieved the most and had the greatest legacy.
Fair enough, but I'm defining/measuring the greatest of all time as the player who, in their prime, is better than everyone else in their primes.
Wait, GOAT doesn't mean greatest one at the time?
What? How does that have anything to do with being the GOAT? So if someone joins the Smash Scene when they are 25, can they never be the GOAT because they sucked at at Smash for 25 years?
True but hbox hasn't done that yet. The thread is too early imo.
LOL
How can anyone possibly determine who is the GOAT if only recent tournaments are the ones being examined?
Because players get better. Example: Leffen as of recent is far better than Ken in his prime, so even though Ken has won more tournaments, Leffen is still better despite being less accomplished in terms of tournament wins.
Maybe. He won low tier city 4, beating mango. Then he won CEO, beating m2k. Then he placed 5th at wtfox 2 losing to m2k and got 3-0'd by wizzy while armada placed 2nd. Now he wins evo after getting 2-0'd by Plup, but only barely squeaked by armada.
Oh my God. Haters really are gonna hate.
What exactly is your definition of GOAT? I agree that Hbox's reign is beginning, but to call him the GOAT so soon when people like Armada and Mango have had better legacies is going to raise some eyebrows. Legacies matter, you can not deny that. And when it comes to legacies, Hbox doesn't hold a candle to either of them. Also, calling someone a "hater" when they specifically state that they're not a hater of any smasher doesn't really help your argument as well.
Armada hasn't won a tourney since Summit 2, Hbox has been going to stuff and winning, and they both had one bad fifth placing recently. I'm sure if it were mango you wouldn't think less of his win because he got 2-0'd by Westballz and then came back through losers. Maybe you say Hbox has value in his consistency and this undermines that, but maybe it shows he can keep it together and play really well in losers which is something he hasn't proved before to the same extent. Personally I don't really see a great reason for keeping armada as number one at the moment
I'm not hating lol, you're just blind.
Dolla Pills
I wasn't looking at the entire year. Someone mentioned who is "currently" the best so I looked at the past month or so.
Still even if you look back a month or so he hasn't won a tournament and hasn't won a set against Hbox mango or Leffen in that time period when all have taken at least one from him
He was one hit away from winning in 2 sets. Sure a win is a win, but it's sad so many players can only mentally process a W or an L. Actually watching sets helps. And remember, I agreed that "maybe" hbox is the best, and only said I don't see evidence that hbox is "definitely" the best currently. As in, all in saying is it's still arguable. But of course, considering the makeup of this community, I will labeled a hater, which is comical. I'm just not one to think that one set means much more than it actually does. I've been analyzing melee far too long (the actual content of sets) to be that narrow-minded. Statistics tell only a small bit of the story. It's like reading a summary of a novel and doing a book report, thinking your report will automatically be just as good as someone's who actually read the book. Lol.
That's fair. I'd personally still give the edge to Hbox based on his sets with mango and overall more active year, but I see what you mean
Hbox being on top is the easy assessment, I definitely think it's a good one. It may seem like I'm just playing devil's advocate but I'm just trying to shed light on things that most people tend to forget from focusing too much on the outcome and not the content (not saying you're one of them).
do you have a playlist on all those matches? I need them
No, sorry
That's really shaky logic considering that the phrase "Greatest of all time" includes *all time*. In other words, longevity is needed to truly attain that title.
