Is Ganondorf considered a braindead character?

[Hungry Headcrab]

Braindead players, hence why I used that phrase.

Yeah, but the fact is that f-smash CAN'T carry your way through the game, lol.

Seriously, that's just a recipe for failure at any level.

 

[Justkallmekai]

I hope to never meet the Ganon players who actively use F-Smash. xD

I hate that move, I like never use it, and when I do.....It was a mistake.

 

[Justkallmekai]

I hope to never meet the Ganon players who actively use F-Smash. xD

I hate that move, I never use it, and when I do......It was a mistake.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I hate that move, I like never use it, and when I do.....It was a mistake.

It has it's uses, niche though they may be. Definitely not something you want to base your play around though.

 

[CORY]

I hope to never meet the Ganon players who actively use F-Smash. xD

there's nothing really wrong with fsmash (other than it sending straight up? >.>). it's not a spammable move, as stated earlier, but it's perfectly servicable to keep yourself from being predictable.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

there's nothing really wrong with fsmash (other than it sending straight up? >.>). it's not a spammable move, as stated earlier, but it's perfectly servicable to keep yourself from being predictable.

I can't think of a single situations where I'd wanna use F-smash over F-tilt.

 

[Yanoss1313]

I can't think of a single situations where I'd wanna use F-smash over F-tilt.

the back-lean ganon foes at the start of the animation can allow it to counter a few things is spaced really well. (think: ****tier version of bowser's Fsmash)
but what hungry headcrab said is true, "Definitely not something you want to base your play around though."

 

[teluoborg]

Follow up your Dthrow with Fsmash at 80+% on medium and fast fallers, then proceed to collect the bitter tears of your enemy.

Also walking right then Fsmashing left (also known as stutter smash) gives you extra range.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Follow up your Dthrow with Fsmash at 80+% on medium and fast fallers, then proceed to collect the bitter tears of your enemy.

Also walking right then Fsmashing left (also known as stutter smash) gives you extra range.

F-tilt is still generally better off of d-throw, at least on the more extreme fast fallers.

It's especially brutal on Spacies.

Going to have to try that stutter smash though. I've been aware of it, but I've never taken the time to actually try and work it into the rotation.

 

[CORY]

I can't think of a single situations where I'd wanna use F-smash over F-tilt.

the back-lean ganon foes at the start of the animation can allow it to counter a few things is spaced really well. (think: ****tier version of bowser's Fsmash)
but what hungry headcrab said is true, "Definitely not something you want to base your play around though."

really just this. that mini dodge he does helps to catch people off guard on spacing attempts occasionally. it's a nice "once a set" thing, more than anything.

edit: alternately, it's a nice "pretend i did that to eff up their spacing on purpose" thing (totally what i end up doing most of the time >.>) : p

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I remember when I made this thread a long time ago.

I actually cared what people thought about my character choices. (Albeit only VERY slightly.)

I've improved so much since I posted this thread that I don't give a **** what people think of my character choices anymore.

[シシガミ hard bodied knockin' any nigg@ back!!]

 

[Xinc]

He's definitely one of the interesting characters to pick up. He's strong, but lacks true comboing ability like Fox or Falco, but he can definitely hold his weight. He's got a lot of flaws which stop him from being braindead, though his choke is a good weapon against many characters.

 

[shwickid222]

Yeah this is why I don't come on here very much anymore. Got kids saying things like fsmash all match... yet I'm supposed to take advice? Pfft. Why don't we all just uptilt stomp while were at it. Better yet will have a sumo match wkth it. Smh.

 

[CORY]

what are you even talking about? one guy saying braindead players use fsmash too much, then the followup comments saying it's situational and then suddenly now everyone's advocating for fsmash spam?

 

[Man Li Gi]

Yeah this is why I don't come on here very much anymore. Got kids saying things like fsmash all match... yet I'm supposed to take advice? Pfft. Why don't we all just uptilt stomp while were at it. Better yet will have a sumo match wkth it. Smh.

You are not even reading the thread bro...

 

[X WaNtEd X]

BRO DID U EVEN READ THE THREAD!?

as a melee ganon, i find pm ganon way easier to use. i generally can't use my waveland "speedondorf" stuff nearly as well but his moveset feels a lot easier to use. side-b going through shield is something huge for ganon players. and now, you can pop bairs, uairs and dairs oos way faster. you kids don't know how lucky you have it!

the big downside is despite these advancements in ganon technology, i think he has much worse mus in pm. in melee, there are only 5 disadvantageous mus for ganon. and 3 of those are very much playable at a high level. i'm pretty sure ganon has way more bad mus in pm. but perhaps that will change if more ganon players start playing pm.

 

[shwickid222]

I disagree. Ganon will suffer until they buff him up to par with everyone e lse. Seems like every character in pm can be unstopable at times. Even m2king himself at shuffle v said this. My ganon is no easy win. But against characters like wario and samus mewtwo. I'm sorely out classed. I'm a speedondorf myself. But I waveland grab and waveland palm strike.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

you seem to agree with me so idk what you mean by disagree.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I disagree. Ganon will suffer until they buff him up to par with everyone e lse. Seems like every character in pm can be unstopable at times. Even m2king himself at shuffle v said this. My ganon is no easy win. But against characters like wario and samus mewtwo. I'm sorely out classed. I'm a speedondorf myself. But I waveland grab and waveland palm strike.

Samus?

Dood. That MU is free for Ganon.

 

[DMG]

That MU is not a free win for Ganon in PM. The Samus buffs were real. Morph Ball Samus invalidates a lot of Ganon stuff without much thought.

 

[teluoborg]

It doesn't invalidate a big fat dark flame coated kick tho. I won't speak much because I don't know any Samus player but it sure doesn't look like as hard as some spacy or other high pressure character.

 

[DMG]

You can do any action out of Morph Ball, including shielding. I wouldn't say she's as hard as some of those characters either, but point being she's not a free win/anymore.

 

[T-R3X]

I personally believe that Fox/Falco are braindead.

Even at a basic level, they are incredibly strong and have too many tools that you have to respect. Otherwise you get bopped.

uhhhhhhh hmmm.....

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Hell no, ganon is not a braindead character in the high-top calibur range.

The metagame is new for Ganon, and there's a lot of things to learn for this character. I just picked up Project M and I'm finding new stuff rapidly.

 

[Man Li Gi]

What more proof is needed folks? We got Bizarro Flame on our side.

 

[Metasponge64]

I have to admit, a forward-air is a move I use often as him.

The range and damage I can do with it combined with a SHFFL is pretty lethal.

Just pretty much in general all of his air move are great.

 

[jotun]

You could argue that Ganon is one of the LEAST brain-dead-friendly characters because he's not as able to overwhelm people through sheer technical skill.

 

[dude it's raining]

I came here looking for tips on how not to fall for somebody whose primary approach is side/down B.
A lot of ppl on the internet complain about pm autocombos, but I think maybe the issue is that there are a lot of characters with quasi-auto approaches that can be exploited by casual players to the point that it is only slightly less challenging for a competitive smasher to deal with than a Gdorf player who knew what they were doing.
Avoiding a stupid approach that nobody seriously uses competitively (not like it's never used but that it's not the primary approach) just isn't a skill I want to learn just yet. During friendlies, all I wanna do is improve my fundamentals not muscle memorize the fact that there will always be a wizard foot right there when I play this guy. I know it's my fault, but it's not that fun. I'd learn it to win a tourney, but not to stop training and win a free-for-all.

 

[DahremRuhar]

I came here looking for tips on how not to fall for somebody whose primary approach is side/down B.
A lot of ppl on the internet complain about pm autocombos, but I think maybe the issue is that there are a lot of characters with quasi-auto approaches that can be exploited by casual players to the point that it is only slightly less challenging for a competitive smasher to deal with than a Gdorf player who knew what they were doing.
Avoiding a stupid approach that nobody seriously uses competitively (not like it's never used but that it's not the primary approach) just isn't a skill I want to learn just yet. During friendlies, all I wanna do is improve my fundamentals not muscle memorize the fact that there will always be a wizard foot right there when I play this guy. I know it's my fault, but it's not that fun. I'd learn it to win a tourney, but not to stop training and win a free-for-all.

Uh. You just seem mad that a "casual" can beat you with a move because you don't want to learn how to beat it.

Terrible, scrubby mentality.

It has nothing to with muscle memory, it has to do with your obviously garbage fundamentals. Learning that it will be there is the best way to beat it.

Tl;dr, if you had even remotely decent fundamentals, you would have no trouble beating the use of these moves as approaches in neutral.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Man I'm so tired of PM turning into Project Moan as everyone and their mothers have something to complain about. People need to learn how to adapt instead of complain. I don't want this for SSB4.

 

[DahremRuhar]

Man I'm so tired of PM turning into Project Moan as everyone and their mothers have something to complain about. People need to learn how to adapt instead of complain. I don't want this for SSB4.

I love Project Moan tho, because it thickens the pot for players who are actually good.

Free money is always nice.

 

[CORY]

and it's not that hard to beat either of them if they're used as approaches. just sit at the edge of side b's range and wait. as long as ganon's not in the lead, he has to approach or else lose to timer, and you can just dodge/roll/maybe jump from side b, and just completely shield wizkick into any punish you want.

 

[dude it's raining]

and it's not that hard to beat either of them if they're used as approaches. just sit at the edge of side b's range and wait. as long as ganon's not in the lead, he has to approach or else lose to timer, and you can just dodge/roll/maybe jump from side b, and just completely shield wizkick into any punish you want.

Thanks. I'll do what you said and sit outside of range. Sorry about complaining and stuff. I don't own the game, so I only ever learn when I play with these guys, and I just wanna improve. And the guy that's beating me has pretty nice mindgames, and he's really good at getting in my head, but he only plays casually you know.

 

[| Kailex |]

Project Moan: Ahegao Edition

 

[CORY]

aaah, ok, so the context of you wanting to practice fundamentals makes sense now!

so, yeah, the basic rule of beating ganon in pm is make him approach. like, just straight up camp him out whenever you can (probably with dd camping, because you need to be ready to go in when he takes bait). most of his approach options require a commitment and he's slow and large, which all adds up to be a not so fun combination for him : /

if he can make you start to approach instead, then it starts to hurt alot, because he deals at least double digits worth of damage on almost all his attacks.

in terms of edgeguarding, don't be afraid to edgehog him. if you can make him recover low or even to the ledge, you can just edgehog, force him to up/sideb, then throw out bair (riskier with side b, your spacing would need to be on point. it's almost free against upb, though). alternately, throw out needles to force him into worse and worse recovery position.

 

[dude it's raining]

Thanks man.

 

[DahremRuhar]

Pretty much everything said above. The approaching thing applies most importantly in neutral though. If you can get a Ganon to overcommit in neutral, which shouldn't be hard seeing as you play sheik, you'll be good.

I apologize for my earlier harshness btdubs. Uncalled for and rude. Won't happen again. To you.

 

[DMG]

Yes, he reserves the right to be harsh and rude to others! Why limit yourself? Smart man, 9/10 would steal your play

 

[dude it's raining]

I'm still new to smashboards, and I've now learned how to ask a question and expect to be told exactly why I'm messing up. My bad man. Thanks guys.

Edit: Actually, I'm really grateful to you guys. I looked up this guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...e-basics-how-to-improve-frame-data-etc.97603/ and am really learning a lot about myself not just as a smasher but as a person. Your response really jittered me, you know, and I had to like walk around outside and be like I wish I hadn't said anything. But I really really am glad that you pointed out that I am a scrub and don't know what I'm doing, but the stuff in these guides about like you can't improve until you acknowledge that there are people that are better than you, but not better than what you're capable of becoming. Here I go to go get better !!! (god, I hate using !'s)

 

[Phaiyte]

In order to succeed with Ganon, you have to be the least braindead player in the entire venue. There is basically no getting around that. Playing a real Ganon is a **** load harder than people think. Rushing in with sideB for no reason and not spacing your aerials are the number 1 reasons why most Ganon players suck so bad.