Is Ganon bad as of v1.04?

[DoubleR2013]

I personally don't understand all of the hate on ganon as being a weak character. Yes he is slow beyond belief but he can still deal a lot of damage and ko players at around 70% with ease. Maybe I'm just noob but I'm curious on what people have to say about him now that a lot of his landing lag has been reduced

 

[Arle Nadja]

Nearly everything he does is still punishable by most characters to my knowledge. I haven't noticed a huge change whilst playing him. I feel like a reduction in ground attack lag and increase in range are the two things that would -really- improve his matchups right around now. I'm grateful that his range isn't buffed though because the only time I cared for powerful and high range was Ike in Brawl.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

how does Ganon get in on characters who can zone him

(he don't)

 

[Roukiske]

Nearly everything he does is still punishable by most characters to my knowledge. I haven't noticed a huge change whilst playing him. I feel like a reduction in ground attack lag and increase in range are the two things that would -really- improve his matchups right around now. I'm grateful that his range isn't buffed though because the only time I cared for powerful and high range was Ike in Brawl.

Basically this. There are some setups with him, but most are risky and smart players who avoid using unsafe moves during rush down or zoning will give Ganon a hard time. Sure, you can kill someone really early with a forward smash punish, but I don't see a good player giving Ganon that kind of opportunity.

I'd like to see side special be un-techable and the return of the Melee jab and fair. As much as I'd like his run to be faster, obese man run can stay for comedic relief.

 

[Merkabo]

Ganon's not bad. Ganon is the best,

 

[KieRanaRan]

I'm afraid the words 'Ganon' and 'bad' don't compute...

Fo' reals though - he's not bad, no fighter really is Yes he's slow, but a big part of Ganondorf's game is patience, reading and punishing.

 

[Shogger]

Even on release Ganondorf was a huge step up from his position in Brawl. The 1.0.4 patch only helped him. Solidly mid tier and pretty balanced IMO. Only one or two buffs (AC Dair or better grab range) and I think he'll be quite strong.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Ganon is a solid character, much improved since his days in Brawl. With the buffs of reduced landing lag from aerials, he is better suited to match against opponents who challenge him in the air. While still a bit slow, a smart player can play reactively and aggressively to maintain stage dominance. He is a force to be reckoned with, as a few days ago I got farmed by one in FG. He definitely does not belong in low tier.

 

[Warlock*G]

Yeah he's bad...

...to the bone. Ouch!

 

[Sykkamorre]

Ganondorf is only as good as the player is smart.

We cause panic and frustration at all points in time, like news of an epidemic.

But most importantly, we kill at stupidly early percentages. Not bottom tier by far.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

From my experience, he certainly has disadvantages. His lack of a projectile and slow speed make him possibly the worst approaching character, and most of his moves have either long startup or long codlin (or both.) However, Ganondorf is also one of the most unpredictable characters. You might underestimate the startup of the Reverse Warlock Punch and then eat it, and the edge-guarding Utilt, but meh.

He ain't bad, but he ain't the best either. Somewhat around how good he was in Melee.

 

[TheBearsnake]

he was pretty effin solid in melee. I'll take melee dorf all day. He's pretty crippling against a smart projectile character, but when he gets in your face few characters can do the damage he can do as fast as he can do it.

 

[Brango]

#Ganon2016

 

[Peterwolf]

DUUUUDE he's got da triforce of pawar !

 

[speedguy20]

I'd actually say Ganon is mid-tier, due to how he can rack up damage easy, and will stay alive forever.

 

[Kisatamura]

If you play Ganon smart, he becomes uber good. I think most people are sleeping on him and writing him off as a character who can't approach, but when your opponent is panicking that's where Ganon really shines.

 

[HeavyLobster]

He's probably ranked 35-40th best in the game, so I suppose in that sense he's "bad" but in terms of actual matchups he can hold his own against just about everyone except for Sheik, so he's usable in tourney even if he's below average.

 

[Meek Moths]

Ganon is the joke character and hes good at that. very powerful but not top, and most importanly, super fun and satisfying to play (and win with)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganondorf isn't a joke in this game. He IS countered by a few characters, but he does have good matchups overall in this game.

I feel he can be very inconsistent competitively because of his extreme hard read based playstyle. Aside from his few really hard matchups, Ganondorf I believe is very hard to learn and execute at a high level due to how on point your reactions and mind games have to be. I feel like with Ganondorf, I often win and lose games hard depending on how quickly I read or get read by my opponent.

 

[Meek Moths]

ganon is pretty joky in this game trust me, and it fits him

 

[A2ZOMG]

Seems like you don't really know the difference between a joke character and a grappler. Ganondorf is a true grappler in Smash. And while by design he has some bad matchups, he does have good matchups in this game.

 

[Vic]

He's a character of patience and reads like others have said. If you can play mind games really well with opponents the game is yours hands down due to your killing power.

 

[Lilfut]

Ganon can kill as low as 50% if you know what you're doing. Flame Choke is a great move, and he doesn't even have that hard of a time with zoners if the player's smart - as soon as he gets in range he can start obliterating the opposition.

 

[Comorant]

Seems like you don't really know the difference between a joke character and a grappler. Ganondorf is a true grappler in Smash. And while by design he has some bad matchups, he does have good matchups in this game.

Honestly Ganondorf is more a Grapple character in spirit than a True Grapple character. He carries many of the iconic elements of a Grapple character, with his large and powerful nature, access to a command grab, and his mix between threatening opponents with his massive damage and punishing mistakes with good reads, while also sharing many of the same weaknesses with other Grapple characters.

That all said, the one thing Ganondorf really is lacking in terms of what makes a True Grapple character is, well, the centralization around the actual grappling. Ganondorf isn't grabbing people that much more than the majority of the cast does. His grabs aren't setting up massive combos, nor are they dealing a large portion of his damage output, nor are they key tools to scoring the KO. Even his command grab serves more as a longer ranged punish than it serves the role a True Grappler's throws do. In all honesty Ganondorf is more of a Bruiser character or a Semi Grapple character than he is a True Grapple character.

That said, aside from Ice Climbers (Now gone) and Dedede (arguably less so in this game), most Grapplers are Semi Grapplers at best in Smash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Real grapplers competitively don't get that many command grabs. The entire reason they work hinges on threat and scaring people into being afraid of using certain options. That's exactly how Ganondorf works, hence why I strictly consider him a legitimate grappler in Smash.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Oh lord, I just imagined Ganondorf with access to grabs on an Astaroth SC4 level.

Jesus, with the range and variety of that god of grappling, Ganondorf would be absolutely broken.

 

[adom4]

Oh lord, I just imagined Ganondorf with access to grabs on an Astaroth SC4 level.

Jesus, with the range and variety of that god of grappling, Ganondorf would be absolutely broken.

That would be ****ing amazing.
Hell, just give him a decent grab & suddenly he's a lot better.

 

[Sykkamorre]

That would be ****ing amazing.
Hell, just give him a decent grab & suddenly he's a lot better.

Astaroth, the only character in a fighting game who can use nothing but grabs in a fight and never repeat an attack.

 

[adom4]

Astaroth, the only character in a fighting game who can use nothing but grabs in a fight and never repeat an attack.

Dude had like 10 grabs in soul calibur 2, i played Cervantes though because pirate zombie.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Another thing to consider is that in the eyes of the developers the characters need to be balanced against the game as a whole and in anything beyond 1v1 Ganon is an absolute menace. Hence...

Sakurai logic powers activate form of balance.

 

[Big O]

I think the main thing keeping Ganon from being a grappler in the classical sense is that his standing grab is laughably bad. His Flame Choke command grab is amazing and the closest thing Smash has to the iconic grappler vortex. However, he has no SPD equivalent that demands respect when he is playing defense. He is also extremely bad at boxing, unlike traditional grapplers who dominate when they get close.

As for how he stacks up against the rest of the cast, I'd say he's mid tier. Maybe lower mid.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I agree with what you've stated Big O.

I'd like to add that the closest thing Ganon has to boxing is full hop fast fall nair which, with the reduced lag, is suitable for setups and juggles.

 

[_Magus_]

The only bad Ganondorf is a bad Ganondorf player. He has the tools to succeed, the player just needs to put in the work.SInce Ganondorf requires arguably more work than most characters, people regard him as bad.

 

[Naroghin]

The only bad Ganondorf is a bad Ganondorf player. He has the tools to succeed, the player just needs to put in the work.SInce Ganondorf requires arguably more work than most characters, people regard him as bad.

Indeed, though it is important to define what a "bad ganondorf player" is. Knowing his options and ranges intimately is definitely the first step but one cannot hope to dominate his foes without a connection to Ganon's personality, both as seen in Smash and canonically.

Punish the insolent, not only for their in-game mistakes but for their brazen defiance of what is the totality and eternity of Ganon's power.

 

[Izanagi97]

PheonixMaster made a montage of Ganon wrecking with the up tilt

 

[CannonGanon]

I personally don't understand all of the hate on ganon as being a weak character. Yes he is slow beyond belief but he can still deal a lot of damage and ko players at around 70% with ease. Maybe I'm just noob but I'm curious on what people have to say about him now that a lot of his landing lag has been reduced

Ganon's not bad. Nor is "the last guy on the list" whoever it may be right now, although I heard it's Olimar/Donkey Kong. Nor is the best character "cheap". They're just all different. And different does not mean bad or good, and Sm4sh is a very balanced game, at least compared to Brawl.

 

[CannonGanon]

Indeed, though it is important to define what a "bad ganondorf player" is. Knowing his options and ranges intimately is definitely the first step but one cannot hope to dominate his foes without a connection to Ganon's personality, both as seen in Smash and canonically.

Punish the insolent, not only for their in-game mistakes but for their brazen defiance of what is the totality and eternity of Ganon's power.

Well said! Basically, to be a good Ganon player, you want to invoke fear into your enemy. If you've made them afraid to approach you, you might as well claim victory.

 

[_Magus_]

Well said! Basically, to be a good Ganon player, you want to invoke fear into your enemy. If you've made them afraid to approach you, you might as well claim victory.

Love your name XD at my community college, my friends call me the Ganon Cannon

 

[CannonGanon]

Love your name XD at my community college, my friends call me the Ganon Cannon

Thanks man. The username I always use is Cannonbolt70. Then I mained Ganon and made a stupid rhyme. We ought to Ganon it out sometime.

 

[_Magus_]

Thanks man. The username I always use is Cannonbolt70. Then I mained Ganon and made a stupid rhyme. We ought to Ganon it out sometime.

Definitely. You on 3ds or wii u?