Is Colin's play style common?

[megamanexev3]

The only competitive Ness I've played was a guy named Colin, who I hear is well known among good Ness users. He's usually on Shoddy Battle, I think he's an admin there.

Most Ness players I play use PK-Fire->Grab->Fair or PK-Fire->Bat, but he pretty much only uses PKT1 and PKT2. The competitive Ness players I've played don't seem to do this much, but then again, I haven't played many.

 

[Brinzy]

Colin... well, our very best Ness players tend to use a lot of PKT, and it's understandable why they'd do that. It could be common, but frankly, there are other ways to play the character besides PKT spam. If you aren't VERY good with it, it's not going to work for you. Though it should be said that Colin's style in particular is one of those high risk, same reward styles.

I tend to just... play it safe.

 

[Masky]

I searched for Colin on youtube and only found a video of a Ness vs a terrible Falco... are there any other videos of him? I don't see how else we can judge his playstyle

 

[megamanexev3]

Yeah, there aren't many videos of him and that Falco DOES suck in the video, he's a great Ness player. Marth CG still ***** him though as I beat him with Marth WITHOUT CGing a long time ago.

 

[thesage]

The only competitive Ness I've played was a guy named Colin, who I hear is well known among good Ness users. He's usually on Shoddy Battle, I think he's an admin there.

Most Ness players I play use PK-Fire->Grab->Fair or PK-Fire->Bat, but he pretty much only uses PKT1 and PKT2. The competitive Ness players I've played don't seem to do this much, but then again, I haven't played many.

Lern to DI

 

[Brinzy]

Who said he doesn't know how to DI? Quick to a conclusion, aren't we...

 

[Uffe]

Well it's weird how he plays. I'm not saying, "he sucks! He should be more like this guy!" I'm saying he plays as if he's calm. He does not look aggressive at all and that's what seems to make his playing seem interesting. Of course his Ness vs someone like Tudor, I wonder how that'd look. I mean wow he plays funny. But still, I think EB360's style is more unique. I think you can learn some good mind games from this guy, though. I've never seen so many PK pwnage in one match. Especially one that seems so predictable. I'm talking about Colin still.

 

[thesage]

Pk fire to bat, should never ever work. EVER. EVER.

...

Pk fire to grab may work depending on the character.

Ness ***** Zelda​

EVER

 

[Uffe]

PKF > Bat is still effective, but I agree, it shouldn't hit anybody anymore. I mean we all know that if you get PKF'd, then Ness is gonna come a swingin'. Grabs still work. But this last match this really cool Ness main used PKF > fair because people escape the bat.

 

[Brinzy]

lol, subliminal messages like nobody sees it. Could've just... you know, flat out said it in normal text.

PKF -> Grab is great.

 

[ColinJF]

I searched for Colin on youtube and only found a video of a Ness vs a terrible Falco... are there any other videos of him? I don't see how else we can judge his playstyle

There aren't any videos of me versus good people, heh. I've only had one set recorded at a tournament and it wasn't uploaded (and it was over a month ago anyway).

Also this topic is kind of embarrassing.

Though I will say that I do spam pk thunder (except against like Mr. Game & Watch).

 

[Uffe]

I'm going to learn your PK pwnage, Colin. Then I'll always win.

 

[rel_12]

Well it's weird how he plays. I'm not saying, "he sucks! He should be more like this guy!" I'm saying he plays as if he's calm. He does not look aggressive at all and that's what seems to make his playing seem interesting. Of course his Ness vs someone like Tudor, I wonder how that'd look. I mean wow he plays funny. But still, I think EB360's style is more unique. I think you can learn some good mind games from this guy, though. I've never seen so many PK pwnage in one match. Especially one that seems so predictable. I'm talking about Colin still.

EB360 is great, we play almost the same, our matches are always close.

 

[PKNintendo]

lol, subliminal messages like nobody sees it. Could've just... you know, flat out said it in normal text.

PKF -> Grab is great.

Ness ***** Zelda. Lol.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

heh, even against G&W Colin spams PKT
I get a full bucket quite often!

Colin is a very solid Ness, with some great mindgames into his PKT2.
I have videos of me and him, but please never watch those ever. [johns]I was when I was unused to Ness and it makes me sad to watch them[/johns]. I don't have anything recent uploaded of us two. And he has no tourney matches uploaded because Canada has very few tourney's!

I have several neat replays of him!
But yeah, Colin is an extremely good Ness player.

 

[Uffe]

EB360 is great, we play almost the same, our matches are always close.

I played a certain way, saw how he played, mimicked it, started playing differently and now suddenly I'm not sure my Ness sucks or got any better. I could always get him down to one stock and probably die. Of course that's not to say I never won any matches.

 

[Nestec]

Lol, Colin must be feeling awkward right about now. ^___^

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Poor Colin ^_____^;;

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

PK fire isn't good.

Jumped out of before Ness can move, even with PK jumping, etc.

 

[Uffe]

PK fire isn't good.

Jumped out of before Ness can move, even with PK jumping, etc.

PK Fire is good because it can still trap the opponent. Sure it won't always happen, but yeah, I wouldn't just discard PKF.

 

[EDMartyr]

NESSBOUNDER...what are you talking about? lol.

PK Fire is good and sure some characters can get out of it very quickly but they still take the damage none the less...it's a freaking projectile. I didn't realize that dealing damage wasn't good.

Some characters have a very hard time getting out of PK Fire (fatties, as I like to call them) and you can take action before they can get out.

That post was nonsense.

 

[Wave⁂]

Uh huh. So you're saying that certain techniques work against large characters. That's new.

Also, Nessbounder FTW.

Also also, I've officially mained Ness.

 

[EDMartyr]

Projectiles build damage. PK Fire whether or not you are "trapping" your opponents still gets that done. "Trapping" is an added bonus. That's what I was saying...way to overlook that.

You aren't going to base Ness's game around PK Fire (at least you shouldn't) and if that was what Nessbounder was saying then I agree. But calling it useless is a little bit of an exaggeration, no?

 

[Brinzy]

So you're saying that certain techniques work against large characters. That's new.

Yeah, who would've ever thought that if you hit someone at their midpoint with an attack, he would have to move his body out further because they're bigger as opposed to a smaller character? SUCH NONSENSE!

 

[Wave⁂]

Dammn you, hyperboles!

 

[Nestec]

Hey, Annoying, who were you previously maining?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

NESSBOUNDER...what are you talking about? lol.

PK Fire is good and sure some characters can get out of it very quickly but they still take the damage none the less...it's a freaking projectile. I didn't realize that dealing damage wasn't good.

Some characters have a very hard time getting out of PK Fire (fatties, as I like to call them) and you can take action before they can get out.

That post was nonsense.

Lolwhat, 6% from a projectile that leaves you wide open no matter what you do with it? One that doesn't even offer any kind of effective pressure or cover, and relies solely on your opponent's inexperience in order to have any kind of use? I don't think so.

The way PK fire works, even huge characters can usually escape it simply by using their double jump and applying some side DI. The windup time for this move is also huge. An opponent can smash DI as soon as they hear "PK FIRE" and they won't even be hit TWICE, since if you DI the very first hit, you will avoid the rest of the pillar completely.

The only thing I use it for is occasionally against opponents over the edge, and out of a pivot. And even then, there are better options.

PK fire's pillar isn't actually a continuous stream of hits. It's a group of small hits strung together, with about 1/3 of a second's pause between each one. There isn't much hitstun between each hit, and an opponent actually CAN move while trapped in PK fire. The only reason it SEEMS they can't guard is because of the lag of landing on the ground from a hit, which prevents you from immediately guarding on frame 1.

HOWEVER, air jumping activates on frame 1, and doesn't have the same startup time as a ground jump. Since PK fire's hits push the opponent slightly upwards, air jumping out of these hits is very easy. An opponent with half-decent reaction times WILL escape PK fire easily, and that includes King Dedede, who as we all know, is huge.

I can't believe people are still trying to use PK fire...It's better than it was in Melee, but it still isn't at all a good move unless your opponent is inexperienced on how to escape it.

Having said that, it can force a second jump off your opponent, but most of the time you won't be able to do much with it because of the after-lag.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Projectiles build damage. PK Fire whether or not you are "trapping" your opponents still gets that done. "Trapping" is an added bonus. That's what I was saying...way to overlook that.

You aren't going to base Ness's game around PK Fire (at least you shouldn't) and if that was what Nessbounder was saying then I agree. But calling it useless is a little bit of an exaggeration, no?

The thing is, it's not much of a projectile either. It's unsafe, and it doesn't take control of much space NOR allow you options with which to pressure the opponent. It's an all or nothing attack. Either it hits and deals a peasly amount of damage, or it misses and leaves you wide open. It's not like Lucario's Aura spheres, which are safe whether they hit or not, and can be used to position and condition the opponent even if they miss. Any time Ness can hit with PK fire, he could probably just use Fair or running attack, both of which are safer and have more application.

 

[Gaussis]

The thing is, it's not much of a projectile either. It's unsafe, and it doesn't take control of much space NOR allow you options with which to pressure the opponent. It's an all or nothing attack. Either it hits and deals a peasly amount of damage, or it misses and leaves you wide open. It's not like Lucario's Aura spheres, which are safe whether they hit or not, and can be used to position and condition the opponent even if they miss. Any time Ness can hit with PK fire, he could probably just use Fair or running attack, both of which are safer and have more application.

Hold on, you are saying that PK Fire is unsafe, meaning that anytime you use it, you run a risk in being punished. How is this different from PKT, which is generally unsafe, even in skilled hands (mindgames are not supposed to be relied upon). Now, I do believe that you are wrong in saying that it does not space. Alone it doesn't but try some of the b-stick options for Ness. Toy with them for a good deal of time. I am sure you will find something useful.

Now to address something that I thought I just had to say: the so-called after-lag of PKF is nonexistent in the air. Right after he finishes saying "Fire" (or whatever he says), you are able to lag cancel. Additionally, the time you are able to lag cancel is about the same time the bolt flies at the opponent, meaning that unless they have an attack with invincibility frames, they cannot punish without getting hurt themselves

Don't give up on a seemingly useless projectile.

 

[kennypu]

another thing I'd like to add on:

The way PK fire works, even huge characters can usually escape it simply by using their double jump and applying some side DI. The windup time for this move is also huge. An opponent can smash DI as soon as they hear "PK FIRE" and they won't even be hit TWICE, since if you DI the very first hit, you will avoid the rest of the pillar completely.

as EDMartyr said, as long as it hits, it accomplishes its goal as a projectile. Even if they are able to DI out of it on the second hit, that leaves you chance to try to grab them, pressure them with fair spams, or any other combo. PK Fires aren't completely useless. When you start pressuring an opponent with quick aerial combos and chaining, and put a pk fire into the mix out of no where, they usually get easily caught allowing you to dthrow, and continue your chaining racking up a lot of damage. Its not too much about what pkfire can do on its own, its more about how it will help when used with other moves.
Ken

 

[Wave⁂]

Hey, Annoying, who were you previously maining?

Uh... pretty much everyone. ROB, Snake, MK, Toon Link, Zamus, Falco in no particular order.