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Introductory Playing Guide: Saxophone

Jammer

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This guide should go in the Saxophone sub-forum in character-specific, but that seems to have been erased. Maybe it was accidentally deleted in the server move? I hope that gets fixed soon.

This is the
Official Saxophone Introductory Playing Guide

Introduction

Saxophone is an often overlooked character. While rarely appearing at tourneys, he is, in fact, very widely used. His popularity seems to be waning. Many would-be Saxophone players gravitate toward the Brass Animals, especially Trumpet. I myself enjoy the very direct play of Trumpet, but my main will always be Saxophone.

Saxophone's name is often abbreviated as "Sax". He is a medium weight, fast-falling character with medium-good range (almost three octaves, although a very advanced player can push the rang as high as 3.5 to 4 octaves, like me). Saxophone has two clones: Soprano Sax (a lightweight character) and Bari Sax (a heavyweight character). Please be aware that Soprano Sax uses a different key than the other two (B flat as opposed to E flat), which makes it extremely hard for Soprano to be used in team matches with the other two. Tenor Sax, which was also planned for Melee, was found to be inherently flawed and unplayable, so he was taken out. I will only be talking about Alto Sax (aka Saxophone) here. I have played all three, and I believe that Saxophone (Alto Sax) is, far and away, the best.

Costumes

Sax has a good selection of costumes. The default is gold with pearl keys. This is the one most people use. I personally use the all-gold alternate costume. Old-school players may prefer the silver alternate costume. Less often seen are the black, red, and even green and blue alternate costumes. These are most often used by metrosexuals and unskilled players with a lot of money.

Overview

Sax's main strength lies in his versatility and incredible comboing abilities. I will get into these combos near the end of this guide. Some of sax's attacks are quite slow and deliberate. They may seem airy and "fwuhshh-y" to many new players, although if Sax is played in a classical manner, these often undesirable traits are eliminated. Sax is able to link attacks about as quickly as the one playing him can say "ta-ta-ta-ta-ta". Why this is so is beyond my guess, but this makes Sax one of the fastest attacking characters in the game, besides Kirby and Sheik with their flurry of punches, and the Space Animals and Captain Falcon with their rapid kicks. An expert player may be able to attack faster than even these characters with an advanced technique called "double-tongue". I won't get into double-tonguing here.

The Moves

Sax is a unique character in the sense that he does not have a full set of moves. Saxophone has no grab (and therefore no throws), no shield, and no side moves of any kind. The only moves Sax has are down a, b, and c; neutral a and b (you can't do a neutral attack with the c-stick); and up a, b, and c. The jump button, instead of jumping, changes the pitch (angle) of his attacks. It is for this reason that it is usually called the "octave key".

Very new players may experience failed attacks quite often. A failed Sax attack is often called a "squeak". These should fade away with practice.

I group the moves into down, neutral, and up instead of a, b, and c because the down moves are most similar to each other; likewise for the neutral and up moves.

Down Moves

Overall, Sax's down moves are his least useful moves. You should still use a couple of them a little bit, though.

Down A: This attack is extremely hard to pull off. Only experienced players should attempt this. It requires one to muffle the bell with their leg to bend a B flat lower. This forces the player into an awkward position that will most likely break their concentration and open them up to attack. It also makes it difficult to find the correct pitch, making it very hard to land this attack accurately. Don't use this move. Ever. Except when showing off in casual play.
Down B: This attack is seldom used. Prone to incorrect pitch (and therefore hard to accurately hit with). You may want to use it to spice things up once in a while. New players may have fun using this attack, along with down c, over and over. That is quite obnoxious and not useful.
Down C: This, the most often used down attack, is still not very common in professional play. Use it to your personal taste. Executing this move well can add excitement to a match and can often "mind game" the opponent. Use this move very rarely if you are an inexperienced Sax player.

Neutral Moves

The neutral moves are the first moves a beginning Sax player should learn and master. As one gets better, one will find that they are using the neutral moves about the same amount as they use the up moves. The neutral attacks are slightly harder-hitting than the up attacks.

Neutral A: A nice standard attack. Some new players may find that they aim too low with this attack. They should tighten their jaw a bit to alleviate this problem. After practice, using this attack accurately will become second nature. A very useful move.
Neutral B: Very similar to neutral a, but generally without the accuracy problem. Not much to say about it, besides "Use it."

Up Moves

Just like the neutral moves, but they require a small amount of training to tighten up the "embouchure" to be played consistently well. Good all-around moves. Instead of listing each up move (up a, b, and c) individually, I will just say that they are very similar to each other and should be used quite often. Learn them well.

There are moves "higher" than the up moves, but those are possible only after years of training. They are not covered in this introductory guide.

Combos

Combos are Saxophone's forte. He has several very useful combos that, when used often, accurately, and evenly, most distinguish experienced Sax players from the noobs. Note that only the down a attack is not used in Sax's combos. This is because it is much too slow.

Trill: This is one name applied to four different combos. They are all done by alternating between two certain attacks. The attacks that can be used to perform a trill are down b and down c (use this one very rarely, if at all), neutral a and neutral b, up a and up b, and up b and up c. Start with the first move listed in each pair. The faster you can perform this combo, the better. Practice these a lot.
Mordent: Like a trill, but cut short. Can be done a total of 8 ways (double the trill's four). Three attacks long; use the list of moves for trills to see which ones to use. May start with the first move listed in each pair (an upper mordent) or the second (a lower mordent). Do these as fast as possible. Does not require too much practice.
Turn: The most difficult combo. Done by performing up b, up c, up b, up a, up b. Very effective on most characters, and fun to do. You may also appreciate the inverted turn: up b, up a, up b, up c, up b. Practice this one and use it to taste.

Closing Remarks

I hope you enjoyed my introductory Saxophone playing guide. It didn't take that much work to make, but I'm quite proud of it. It's arguably the best Sax guide here on SmashBoards.

I hope that it makes you at least think about picking up and playing Saxophone. He's a lot of fun.

I hereby release this work into the public domain. You can do whatever you want with it (it isn't copyrighted). If you do use it, please say you got it from Jammer (me).

Remember, practice makes perfect!

All questions, comments, feelings, and reactions are welcome. If you liked the guide please say so! It makes me happy!
 

Binx

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Reading now edit this in a sec

EDIT: WOW LOL - Saxophone for top tier.

EDIT 2: I think I am gonna put this on the back of a black shirt with SAX for Top Tier on the front.
 

Jammer

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Where are the match-ups? I want to know what to expect when I go against a Sousaphone.
I'm sorry, I haven't gotten around to it yet. I don't have anyone really good to play with to see what happens in a 1 vs 1. I can kick the butt of any CPU using any character with my Saxophone so easily with any move that I don't get any good data to know what works well and what doesn't.
 

ChronoSquare

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Before competitive Melee, I played Bass Clarinet. Oh god, how do I miss playing Bass Clarinet... there aren't words for how I would describe playing Bass Clarinet, despite its being a low-tier character...
 

ꓰspeon

Sun Pokemon
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By far the bestest sax guide EVER! Thanks a lot for the useful info! (I think that was quite fun to make).
Anyway, i use piano, which can suck other insruments' powers and use them with his digital media, therefore becoming invincible! Piano is god tier! Bwawawawah!
 

ph00tbag

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I still don't get why they got rid of the Sax forum. Sax players are so chill.
 

Egret

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Scrubs, sax is not top tier. I hate it when people make threads like this just cause they can't accept their favorite doesn't stand a chance against an equally skilled trumpet player. Lots of people play sax cause it's flashy and easy to be ok at but it doesn't really have much depth and at top level tournaments you're gonna get outclassed easily by better characters. Feel free to prove me wrong and win some tourneys with sax but until then stop with this nonsense.
 

4 Aces

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No, flute pwns all. It's rather long, rod-like shape allows sleek movement and grants high evasion. It's characteristically high pitch makes it a match-up unfamilar to many, yet at the same time, it can be mellow - great for mindgames. Piccolo, the first of three clones, is the lightweight. An octave higher than the flute, which is already high enough, can break the other character's eardrum if it so desires. The alto and bass flute are the heavyweight counterparts. They're...just awesome. They're so uncommon these days (well, even back then), that they're considered the ninjas. They appear, get the job done, and scurry back into the shadows. Lol, jk ;)

Where is the tier list? I'd like to know where it places.

In all seriousness though, I'm rather confused of where this should be. This is a rather interesting guide. I was considering picking up the saximaphone. I just need to rent one first...
 

Jammer

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You put enough time in this for it to become a 4 out of 10 on the funny scale.
Well, the thing is, there is a well thought-out joke or two in pretty much every single sentence of my guide. The problem is that only a professional saxophone player will understand them.

Here is a rough list of the percentage of jokes that require what knowledge:

5% : Good general knowledge.
15% : Rudimentary musical knowledge
10% : Advanced musical knowledge
20% : Rudimentary saxophone knowledge
20% : Good working knowledge of the saxophone
30% : Advanced working knowledge of the alto saxophone

80% of the jokes require, in addition to what I've listed above, a good knowledge of Smash.

So, most people will only get 10-30% of the jokes.

I guess that's why it's much funnier to me than pretty much anyone else on the boards.
 

Junpappy

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I love how you didn't mention anything about how badly Ocarina counters Saxophone.
 

Pritch

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This thread is, by far, the best thread ever to be seen in all of smashboards.

Does this mean Joshua Redman should be on the power rankings? And would he be higher or lower than Chris Potter? How about Kenny Garret? Antonio Hart? I'd put Redman above basically anyone personally, though some may disagree with me there. Though if you're including non-current players, it's hard to argue with Bird and Trane having spots, as well as giants who have unfortunately just recently departed the scene like Jackie MacLean or Michael Brecker.

(yes, I am seriously into jazz):laugh:

Less often seen are the black, red, and even green and blue alternate costumes. These are most often used by metrosexuals and unskilled players with a lot of money.
You should try playing a keilwerth shadow or a yamaha custom before you say that. Not my own preferred axes (I loves my selmer mark VI), but they are definitely some amazing horns. Though I agree that there are a lot of really bad horns that people try to sell by laquering green or something else dumb like that.
 

Jammer

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(yes, I am seriously into jazz):laugh:

You should try playing a keilwerth shadow or a yamaha custom before you say that. Not my own preferred axes (I loves my selmer mark VI), but they are definitely some amazing horns. Though I agree that there are a lot of really bad horns that people try to sell by laquering green or something else dumb like that.
Yes, you really are into jazz. I have no idea who most of those people are (I'm more of a player than a listener, even if that's not the best thing to be).

Personally, I think Charlie Parker (for everyone who doesn't know, that's the "Bird" Pritch was talking about) has the best technical skill of all those Saxophone mains. He also has some mad good melody comboing skills.

I've only owned two saxophones in my life, besides the old beat up one I rented when I first started out.

The first was a cheap Yamaha, the second a middle-priced Yamaha. I don't really have the money to use a good Sax.

And every Saxophone player I've seen who used the green or blue alternate costume was just a scrub. The people who use the red alternate costume are often quite good, but not always. I guess I just need to see more pros play.
 

Pritch

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No frame data, matchups, combos, etc? How... lacking.
Due to the extremely technical nature of playing this character and the degree to which specific situations factor into move choice in general listing combos would be counterproductive. The best way to learn combos is to see (hear) them in action and attempt to mimic yourself.

Recommended Combo Vids (CDs):
(warning, some of these might be too advanced for begining players, you might need to work on your tech skill before you can master them. You might, in fact, need to work a great deal, as I discover and rediscover daily :()

"Giant Steps," by John Coltrane
"Know What I Mean," by Cannonball Adderley
"Elastic," and "Spirit of the Moment" by Joshua Redman
"Lift," by Chris Potter
"Time is of the Essence," by Michael Brecker

Bear in mind, the technical abilities required to attempt the combos demonstrated in these, particularly the ones by Michael Brecker or Chris Potter, may be beyond the scope of some (by which I mean about 99.999999%) of potential saxophone mains. Or to put it another way, these guys make M2K look like C@sh Mooney.

Yes, you really are into jazz. I have no idea who most of those people are (I'm more of a player than a listener, even if that's not the best thing to be).

Personally, I think Charlie Parker (for everyone who doesn't know, that's the "Bird" Pritch was talking about) has the best technical skill of all those Saxophone mains. He also has some mad good melody comboing skills.

I've only owned two saxophones in my life, besides the old beat up one I rented when I first started out.

The first was a cheap Yamaha, the second a middle-priced Yamaha. I don't really have the money to use a good Sax.

And every Saxophone player I've seen who used the green or blue alternate costume was just a scrub. The people who use the red alternate costume are often quite good, but not always. I guess I just need to see more pros play.
Yeah, pretty much the only quality horns you'll see are in either traditional colors (gold or silver) or black. And while Parker was way ahead of his time in terms of technical chops and definitely innovated the horn, in terms of raw chops he's been pretty seriously eclipsed by more modern players (Chris Potter and Michael Brecker come immediately to mind). Not to knock on Bird at all though, he's definitely one of the best sax players to ever walk the earth.

A good way to pick up a really good quality horn for a relatively low price is to see if you can find yourself a deal on an older model Selmer Mark VII. They cost WAAAAAY less than sixes do since sixes have a ton of name recognition, but most of the earlier sevens play pretty similarly to sixes. I picked mine up for somthing like $1400 or so, and I'd still be playing it today if a ridiculous deal on a six hadn't literally fallen into my lap. Even then, I still have the seven and alternate between playing the 2 - they're both really good horns. Just be sure you get a chance to play the seven first before you commit to it, as I've heard you'll occasionally run across some bad ones.

Lol, now look what you've done, you've unleashed a professional jazz sax player on smashboards. I've probably just killed your thread. Sorry 'bout that.:laugh: In all seriousness though, PM me if you want some more info about this, I don't want to clutter your thread up more and get it closed, as it is one of the more amusing things I've seen on the boards.
 

ti83pop

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Less often seen are the black, red, and even green and blue alternate costumes. These are most often used by metrosexuals and unskilled players with a lot of money.
LMFAO. I used to know this guy who mained Saxophone (regular) for one year, and it was Fire Red. I also know this chick who mains bubblegum pink clarinet.

As a sax player, I declare this post the best post ever.
And I affirm your declaration.

Piano has probably the most variety in range of attacks, but has very little control over variations of combos they can do. And piano is VERY heavy, thus, a punching bag.

Clarinet is good, I will admit, but it's traction isn't quite what you'd call great. Clarinet is still pretty good though.

Trumpet is cheap.

I haven't unlocked all of the percussion series though, I'd like to see where they place on the tiers :D.
 

Jammer

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Heh, this is weird. This thread died a month ago, and it's suddenly come back to life. I guess there actually are sax players on the boards.

Now I might even do a trumpet one, since the trumpet seems to be more popular in general than the saxophone.

A good way to pick up a really good quality horn for a relatively low price [...] somthing like $1400 or so.

Lol, now look what you've done, you've unleashed a professional jazz sax player on smashboards. I've probably just killed your thread. Sorry 'bout that.:laugh:
Yeah, my limit is probably a $900 sax every 5 years. I just don't have the kind of money to get a good one. I don't think it really matters, though, because I just play for fun, and I'm no where near professional, as in I'm a 17-year-old who hasn't done any major gigs.

And no, it's cool to meet another serious sax player online, especially in such an unlikely place.
 

ti83pop

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Heh, this is weird. This thread died a month ago, and it's suddenly come back to life. I guess there actually are sax players on the boards.

Now I might even do a trumpet one, since the trumpet seems to be more popular in general than the saxophone.



Yeah, my limit is probably a $900 sax every 5 years. I just don't have the kind of money to get a good one. I don't think it really matters, though, because I just play for fun, and I'm no where near professional, as in I'm a 17-year-old who hasn't done any major gigs.

And no, it's cool to meet another serious sax player online, especially in such an unlikely place.
Agreed. That's also about my price range, and I'm looking for a new sax D: But this is so not the place to talk about that xD.

Anyway- trumpet eh? I'm actually thinking about seconding trumpet (no really xD). I really need to find this tier list, otherwise tires don exits.
 

Jammer

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Anyway- trumpet eh? I'm actually thinking about seconding trumpet (no really xD). I really need to find this tier list, otherwise tires don exits.
That's cool. I started trumpet about a year and a half ago. It's really completely different from saxophone, or any reed instrument for that matter (I've played most of them).

Be prepared to really suck for a long time before your lips get strong enough to actually play cool stuff.

It's been well over a year, and I still have quite a bit of trouble reaching high C's. It's really frustrating. I don't practice that often, though, so I guess I have only myself to blame.
 

Irow

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That's cool. I started trumpet about a year and a half ago. It's really completely different from saxophone, or any reed instrument for that matter (I've played most of them).

Be prepared to really suck for a long time before your lips get strong enough to actually play cool stuff.

It's been well over a year, and I still have quite a bit of trouble reaching high C's. It's really frustrating. I don't practice that often, though, so I guess I have only myself to blame.
Agreed. Except high C? You should be able to hit that by now. Hell I can like a triple A.

I've been playing for like eight years.

The key to playing trumpet is owning it, not the trumpet own you.

"Only the strong can play brass, the weak are doomed to reeds." Hahaha
Kidding, or am I?
 

Jammer

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Agreed. Except high C? You should be able to hit that by now.
Oh, I can hit the high C's. I can hit triple high G's. But I can't do it well enough to be comfortable playing a song that includes those notes.

I'm not sure if that's what you mean by "being able to hit that by now". I think it is.
 

Irow

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Well, by being able to hit the note, I mean being able to consistently play it in a song or something.

Remember, trumpet is all about learning how to control the beast that it is, not the beast controlling you. Make that high C your bee-yotch.
 

Jammer

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Remember, trumpet is all about learning how to control the beast that it is, not the beast controlling you. Make that high C your bee-yotch.
I'll try that mindset on for size. As it is, I feel more like all I'm trying to do is get a sound out. It's probably because my technical and music reading skills are so far above my embouchure skills, so I try to play songs that my lips aren't ready for. But I'll go and make my trumpet my bee-yotch. One sec...

Meh, it didn't really change anything. But I'll still try to do that, and see if it helps. Thanks for the tip.
 

Irow

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Try playing the lower notes first. In fact, if you can play the really notes well, you'll have more control of your higher register.

And try practicing songs that better suit your embouchure. Soon it'll all come to place. Whenever you start practicing, play each note from low c to middle c, as long as you can.


And lol, triangle... I once was in a marching band and my friend had to march triangle.
 

Jammer

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Whenever you start practicing, play each note from low c to middle c, as long as you can.
Oh yeah, I think I'm "too good" for that warmup stuff. I always just start playing some tunes as soon as I pick it up. I'll see if I can change that.

Thanks for the low register tip. I never practice the pedal tones, but now I will. Off of school today: going to play some trumpet right now.
 

Irow

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Alright, that's the way. I remember I had a lot of trouble before, but warming-up and practicing all of the notes in the trumpet's amazing range really give you an edge.

Warming-up is good always. If you don't you risk busting your lip earlier than you should.
 
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