• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Introducing the Project M Calculator v1.52

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
Hi all, I’m here to share an updated tool with you: the Project M Calculator.

DOWNLOAD LINK FOR v1.52

Strong Bad initially created an excel that could compute knockback, launch speed, hitstun, hitlag, and shieldstun based upon formulas derived by Magus.

In the last year I’ve greatly expanded this tool by adding a visualization component as well as some additional information. Here are a couple images of it in action:





As you can see, you can input an attack’s data, select an opponent, choose their percent and starting position, and the visualization tool will show you their frame-by-frame trajectory upon being hit, including where they would land on platforms or whether they would be KO’d.

The arrows show a hit’s trajectory, with each dot being an exact location of the victim for each frame. When the arrow turns from colored to white that indicates that the victim is still suffering knockback but that hitstun is over and the victim can act. By inputting the endlag of the attack or throw, you’re also able to see where the victim is on the first actionable frame of the attacker, as indicated by a yellow circle.

Additionally, this also plots the two most extreme DI paths (±18°) using smaller arrows flanking the main no-DI arrow. Thus, you can imagine a victim traveling any path between the outermost arrows. If you want to look at an exact path, you could even change the DI column from 18 degrees to, say, 5 degrees, to look at an intermediate DI path.

Finally, the calculator has the exact boundaries of PM’s Battlefield and Final Destination plugged into it. If an attack would result in a KO for either stage the visualizer will tell you. It will even tell you if DI will make the difference between surviving or not. As you can see above, the best course of action for surviving Mario’s Fair SS is actually to not DI!

The possibilities are endless here. You can check followup windows, investigate block disadvantages, compare KO attacks, and more. Combined with Debug Mode this tool gives people a lot of power in the lab, and is something we actively use on the dev team when tweaking moves.

Limitations:
-Currently only supports BF & FD, adding more stages is possible, but cumbersome...
-Stage views are fixed. You can't zoom in or pan around. Sorry, I'm working with Excel here, not a real rendering program. Q_Q
-You need to supply the move data. This can be pulled from Project Smash Attacks, or various versions of Brawl Box. If there's enough demand I might be able to put together a separate guide for this.
-I built this in Excel on Mac. There may be some very minor imperfections on Windows Excel.

Enjoy!
-Shell
 
Last edited:

Machiavelli.CF

Ivy of the West
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
757
Location
Orange County, CA
NNID
Machiavelli.CF
3DS FC
3222-5675-4966
Anyone interested in fiddling with the KB Calculator might want to make use of Project Smash Attacks (PSA) to grab/edit hitbox data, so here's a link to a guide and download to that, as well. If you only want to grab hitbox data, you won't need to read much of it, but feel free to read more if you're interested in learning in-depth how to use the Dev Team's go-to moveset editor.
(Familiarity with PSA looks good on an Dev Team application, too. *wink wink*)

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/threads/resource-project-smash-attacks-guide.7975/
 
Last edited:

Frost | Odds

Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
2,328
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Melee uses the same KB formula, so this should be useful for Melee players as well.
 

V_D_X

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
29
Speaking of Melee, how hard would it be to adapt this for other games? This type of tool would let you flowchart your punishes for basically any smash game if you adjusted the x and y velocity functions accordingly.
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
Speaking of Melee, how hard would it be to adapt this for other games? This type of tool would let you flowchart your punishes for basically any smash game if you adjusted the x and y velocity functions accordingly.
The formulas all work the same, I'd just need to update the stage boundaries and character attributes. Definitely possible, but no ETA right now.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Welp, you beat me to finishing mine lol

ggs

Edit:

Actually, at some point I can release my spreadsheet with knockback/damage values per move per character that i was building up for my version which can be used with this
 
Last edited:

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Double post, but also bumping this back up (sticky @Warchamp7 / @Strong Bad ?)

Does this cover the differences in throws vs normal attacks in terms of how weight doesn't really affect throw KB?
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
Yeah it works. You select move type at the top of the sheet and it handles weight accordingly.
 

TheGravyTrain

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
866
Location
Ferndale, WA
NNID
Theboyingreen
Shell Shell

This is really useful. On first use, I just thought of something that could (somehow...) make this just ever so slightly more useful. I did DK's up tilt and it was hitting the ground before the kb curve was over. Maybe a way to display what frames that will land in relation to your move. So you know your endlag in relation to when they land (like there currently is a way to tell what position they will be in when you get out of lag, but for when they hit the ground).
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
How do i get the stale moves table to work exactly? Its important for Seismic toss since it stales itself lol.
 

Boiko

:drshrug:
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
1,457
Location
New York
Shell Shell

This is really useful. On first use, I just thought of something that could (somehow...) make this just ever so slightly more useful. I did DK's up tilt and it was hitting the ground before the kb curve was over. Maybe a way to display what frames that will land in relation to your move. So you know your endlag in relation to when they land (like there currently is a way to tell what position they will be in when you get out of lag, but for when they hit the ground).
Not sure if this is the answer you're looking for, but each white dot in the arrow represents a frame of hitstun or knockback depending on if the arrow is colored or not. You can count how many frames it is until they reach the ground, and then subtract that from whatever frame you connect your move on plus the cooldown.

For example, let's say you assume to hit on frame 8 of your 18 frame move, and there are 4 frames of cooldown, and there are 15 dots before they hit the ground.
18-8 = 10 frames of attack remaining
15 frames before reaching ground (not including tech option) - 10 frames remaining commitment = 5 frame advantage not including a tech option.

This doesn't account for hitlag from electric attacks, CC, or hitting from a different position, however. There are a lot of factors to consider, really.
 

TheGravyTrain

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
866
Location
Ferndale, WA
NNID
Theboyingreen
Attempting that is what made me ask if it was possible since it would be more convenient. I understand if its not a high priority or it can't be done, just thought I'd ask and see.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
So if I read it right actually, the stale move table just shows the number you should account for on the right side of the sheet for "ATTACK 1 VS SHIELD". Seismic toss hits 4 times, so it's break down as:

0 - 4%
1 - 3.64% (4) (Yes slot 1)
2 - 3.32% (3) (Yes slot 2)
3 - 3.03% (3) (Yes slot 3)

Total - 13.99% (14)... which doesn't make sense as it should do 15%...

Maybe its because I had them all toggled on at once?

0 - 4%
1 - 3.64% (4) (Yes slot 1)
2 - 3.68% (3) (Yes slot 2)
3 - 3.72% (3) (Yes slot 3)

Total - 15.04% (15)... the total is right but the method seems wrong since the staled damage is going up?


EDIT: Nevermind, I was mistaken:

Seismic toss hits 5 times:

2-2-2, 5, 4 (launching hit) for a total of 15%. I could not find these hitboxes at first because they were buried in the "Graphics" section of the move instead of the normal "attack" area lol.

Still, I would like to know how the stale move queue works here :)
 
Last edited:

SOJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
448
Location
MD/VA
Welp, you beat me to finishing mine lol

ggs

Edit:

Actually, at some point I can release my spreadsheet with knockback/damage values per move per character that i was building up for my version which can be used with this
Funny thing is I saw you asking for help on yours, and I remembered we had finished this tool a little while ago but never released it, so I poked Shell to release it haha
 
Last edited:

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Funny thing is I saw you asking for help on yours, and I remembered we had finished this tool a little while ago but never released it, so I poked Shell to release it haha
I may as well contribute and add my spreadsheet of moves to this document and re-release at some point then :)

I can map out the stages too with the measurements/etc for a future update.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
I have some locations for BF mapped out for your use:

Common Locations:

X , Y

0 , 1 (Center, Floor)

0, 28 (Center, Midair/Low Plat height)

40, 28 (Center on Low Plat)

0 , 55 (Center, Top Plat)

0, 100 (Halfway up the screen. Jump from top plat for most)

0, 136 (Camera Limit before "Magnifying glass" off the top)

34, 1 (Midway between center and Edge)

68, 1 (Edge)

112, 1 (Midway between mid and blastzone)

146, 1 (Midway between Edge and blastzone)

160, 1 (Camera limit for sides)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT SOJ SOJ Shell Shell , if I wanted to add more stages, itd be a matter of copying the current "maps" and stretching them to the blastzone sizes, yes?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit 2:

http://smashboards.com/threads/super-training-charizard-frame-data-thread.342681/

Here is some stuff to play with
 
Last edited:

Ponkapa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
72
Hey, I don't know if you're dealing with this anymore, but you still have Yoshi's weight listed at 111, when it should be 108. I don't remember exactly which patch it was (I'd assume you had it right at the time), but just wanted to note that as it threw off a couple calculations for me till I noticed that.

Also, thank you so much for doing this! This thing is amazing and I've been using it for applications, as well as trying to make it into a standalone application (I just feel perhaps Excel sometimes can be more annoying for using something like this). When I finish it, I did plan to credit everyone involved. I assume I should credit you as Shell?
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Hey, I don't know if you're dealing with this anymore, but you still have Yoshi's weight listed at 111, when it should be 108. I don't remember exactly which patch it was (I'd assume you had it right at the time), but just wanted to note that as it threw off a couple calculations for me till I noticed that.

Also, thank you so much for doing this! This thing is amazing and I've been using it for applications, as well as trying to make it into a standalone application (I just feel perhaps Excel sometimes can be more annoying for using something like this). When I finish it, I did plan to credit everyone involved. I assume I should credit you as Shell?
;)

 

Ponkapa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
72
Is this calculator still being worked on?
Schmooblidon has been working on a similar calculator that works probably way better than mine for melee (the guy is insanely good haha), but yeah, I'm still slowly working on it. Just have school in the way currently!
 

Miryafa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
142
Is this chart completely accurate? I set the victim damage to 300%, and it still shows Bowser landing onstage after a Zelda fsmash. Or maybe open office isn't displaying it properly.
 
Last edited:

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Is this chart completely accurate? I set the victim damage to 300%, and it still shows Bowser landing onstage after a Zelda fsmash. Or maybe open office isn't displaying it properly.
You need to use the final hit's knockback data, the first few hits of that Fsmash just sorta keep the foe in place.
 

Miryafa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
142
You need to use the final hit's knockback data, the first few hits of that Fsmash just sorta keep the foe in place.
Yes, I did that. I guess that answers my question though, thank you.

Does anyone know of a google doc version I could use?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom