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Pokkén Tournament Into the Woods - The Sceptile Social

KuroganeHammer

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Shouldnt be going by smash standards. Fastest jab in tekken is 10 frames.
Fair enough.

Also guys you don't need to take a day 2 opinion as an attack on you and your character lol

It could be that I'm just bad at him. Or maybe he really does suck. Probably a combination of both tho.
 

meleebrawler

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Fair enough.

Also guys you don't need to take a day 2 opinion as an attack on you and your character lol

It could be that I'm just bad at him. Or maybe he really does suck. Probably a combination of both tho.
The type of character Sceptile is, if you start tanking mentally you're gonna crash and burn.

Sometimes I wonder if he would have fit better as a Technical character than Speed...

Words are powerful in a fledgling meta with a most likely impressionable playerbase.
 

meleebrawler

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Down Y is broken. Just spam it and you could just bet wins off of it.
It's a nice interrupt/poke but let's not get carried away.

Whoever mentioned aiming for criticals... Leaf Blade is super fun with Victini.

Other Supports I like using are Jirachi (maximizing the impact of stolen Synergy)/Whimsicott (due to the indirect nature of his projectiles it's nice to be able to soak up a few tossed by your opponent), Rotom/Togekiss.
 
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HeavyMetalSonic

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I actually really like Sceptile, regardless of his tier position. I was gonna go Blaziken, but he didn't fit my style. I've got some others to try out yet, but Sceptile has been giving me some good fights, I find it's all about mixups and playing crafty to keep your opponent on their toes.

Assists I use

Frogadier: Ignore Eevee, Frogadier is where it's at. He's able to apply long range pressure and set up on enemies.
Diglett: Similar to good ole' Froggy, but he will launch the enemy in the air. In Duel phase this is very good, as you can combo into Up+X then Up+A to Izuna Drop the enemy for ALOT of damage.

Field Phase

Field Phase can be hit or miss depending on who you're fight and how good they are at zoning. I have a very hard time against zoners like Braixen, well... ESPECIALLY Braixen. Shadow Mewtwo also seems to have an answer for everything. Laying down traps correctly is manditory as Sceptile I find, his homing attacks don't really allow him to dash in too well unlike some characters, unless he's in burst mode in which case he'll crush the enemies guard and put you into Duel phase.

Throw out Aerial Y first, because it takes 3-5 seconds for the leaves that make enemies flinch to come out. Depending on where the Opponent is, throw out A,A and hold the direction they're running to create a wall of seeds, place yourself behind the seeds to make a wall between you. You can then either chose to do Aerial A to throw more traps down, or approach depending on the situation. Overall you want to try and approach once Aerial Y starts shooting out the red leaves; you should be able to get a grab on them if the leaves are nailing them down, switching phases.

Another thing to note, if you use A,A, if the opponent is hit by them (Sometimes they won't be paying attention as Aerial Y will be right in their face assuming you're mid range), then Side+Y,Y will combo into it and the backflip kick will knock them into duel phase.

It's either that, or hope to land a side+Y,Y while dodging a projectile, which is pretty easy to do against certain enemies, especially with all the traps out, giving you plenty of opportunity from the distraction.

Duel Phase

I actually find sceptile to be pretty decent in Duel Phase. Upon entering Duel phase, I'll instantly do A,A to lay down seeds if I initiated it and the enemy is getting up from the attack. If it was them who initiated duel phase, dash backwards to try and setup. Then Aerial A to throw more traps down to create some space. Down+A is fantastic as it gives you life back and the opponent can't block it, but it can leave you pretty open if you just throw it out repeatedly, so use it sparingly. You want to play keep away as long as possible unless they're better zoners than you -glares at Suicune and Braixen-. A,Y is a fantastic spacing tool for those trying to creep through the traps, it's got very long range and comes out quickly, you can also combo into anything, including Y,Y from it, which I'll get to why it's good in a second.

If they're better zoners than you, you want to get in as quick as possible. Mix it up between blocking/dashing, and using Back+A (hold) to get in. Remember during Back+A (The vine swing) you can hold R (Block) to cancel it into the stationary vine, this is good to stay above certain projectiles, you can also do any aerial attack out of it, X is good because you can combo out of it with Y,Y,Y which leads to many mixups when you dash cancel it or do something which I'll mention soon (seriously, it's useful).

If you approach from the ground rather than Spidermanning your way in there, XX is my main tool of approaching, but Down+Y is nice too as it is a quick poke that moves you forward slightly and combos into Forward+A.

As mentioned in an earlier post, getting life back is one of Sceptiles gimmicks with Giga Drain (Down+A). Looking at what was just said, we can combo into it in several ways... Leaf Blade (Forward A, the Second hit of XX and the third hit of YYY, the large ranged blade) sets up enemies at practically the perfect range to land a Giga Drain. So using what was just mentioned...

Enemy trying to get in? Have you hit them with A,Y while trying to keep them out? Combo into YY, then throw out Down+A. Big damage and you get life back.

Just used vine swing and hit the enemy with Aerial X after it? Combo into YYY to throw out LeafBlade... Down+A. Get some life back.

Close range and you land XX or YYY? Combo that into Down+A.

Now, this isn't 100% foolproof. They can jump out of it or move/dash out the way. But it's pretty safe. If they dash forward, it puts them within grabbing range. If they jump, you can pretty much Shield before most attacks will touch you. Dash back, you're safe. Mixing all of the above with counters, Counter Attack Dash Cancels, and grabs, can make Sceptile pretty tricky.

If you do either XX or YYY, if they block the first X or haven't gotten hit by the second Y, dash cancel them (Block+forward or back). If you dash backwards, it leaves you safe and you've created room to setup traps. If you dash forward, you can either go into another combo, you can grab the enemy, you can charge a counter attack, you can do A to hop up and do whatever you want, drop down on them with X, throw out a quick Y, throw out some seeds with A... It's up to you, mix it up, keep them guessing. You get the idea.

He might not have the best frame data or power behind his moves, and has some weaknesses, but he's got plenty to keep him going. I think because some characters are pretty damn strong (Gengar, Suicune, Braixen, Pikachu etc), it makes Sceptile look pretty lame in comparison. No doubt the game will be balanced though and he'll either look better in comparison and/or get some buffs. That's just how I play as him though or what is going through my mind as I play as him, it seems to be working out pretty well anyway.
 

Baby_Sneak

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It's a nice interrupt/poke but let's not get carried away.

Whoever mentioned aiming for criticals... Leaf Blade is super fun with Victini.

Other Supports I like using are Jirachi (maximizing the impact of stolen Synergy)/Whimsicott (due to the indirect nature of his projectiles it's nice to be able to soak up a few tossed by your opponent), Rotom/Togekiss.
i know, I'm exaggerating :3

But it's a really freaking good normal. Our best poke.
 

meleebrawler

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I actually really like Sceptile, regardless of his tier position. I was gonna go Blaziken, but he didn't fit my style. I've got some others to try out yet, but Sceptile has been giving me some good fights, I find it's all about mixups and playing crafty to keep your opponent on their toes.

Assists I use

Frogadier: Ignore Eevee, Frogadier is where it's at. He's able to apply long range pressure and set up on enemies.
Diglett: Similar to good ole' Froggy, but he will launch the enemy in the air. In Duel phase this is very good, as you can combo into Up+X then Up+A to Izuna Drop the enemy for ALOT of damage.

Field Phase

Field Phase can be hit or miss depending on who you're fight and how good they are at zoning. I have a very hard time against zoners like Braixen, well... ESPECIALLY Braixen. Shadow Mewtwo also seems to have an answer for everything. Laying down traps correctly is manditory as Sceptile I find, his homing attacks don't really allow him to dash in too well unlike some characters, unless he's in burst mode in which case he'll crush the enemies guard and put you into Duel phase.

Throw out Aerial Y first, because it takes 3-5 seconds for the leaves that make enemies flinch to come out. Depending on where the Opponent is, throw out A,A and hold the direction they're running to create a wall of seeds, place yourself behind the seeds to make a wall between you. You can then either chose to do Aerial A to throw more traps down, or approach depending on the situation. Overall you want to try and approach once Aerial Y starts shooting out the red leaves; you should be able to get a grab on them if the leaves are nailing them down, switching phases.

Another thing to note, if you use A,A, if the opponent is hit by them (Sometimes they won't be paying attention as Aerial Y will be right in their face assuming you're mid range), then Side+Y,Y will combo into it and the backflip kick will knock them into duel phase.

It's either that, or hope to land a side+Y,Y while dodging a projectile, which is pretty easy to do against certain enemies, especially with all the traps out, giving you plenty of opportunity from the distraction.

Duel Phase

I actually find sceptile to be pretty decent in Duel Phase. Upon entering Duel phase, I'll instantly do A,A to lay down seeds if I initiated it and the enemy is getting up from the attack. If it was them who initiated duel phase, dash backwards to try and setup. Then Aerial A to throw more traps down to create some space. Down+A is fantastic as it gives you life back and the opponent can't block it, but it can leave you pretty open if you just throw it out repeatedly, so use it sparingly. You want to play keep away as long as possible unless they're better zoners than you -glares at Suicune and Braixen-. A,Y is a fantastic spacing tool for those trying to creep through the traps, it's got very long range and comes out quickly, you can also combo into anything, including Y,Y from it, which I'll get to why it's good in a second.

If they're better zoners than you, you want to get in as quick as possible. Mix it up between blocking/dashing, and using Back+A (hold) to get in. Remember during Back+A (The vine swing) you can hold R (Block) to cancel it into the stationary vine, this is good to stay above certain projectiles, you can also do any aerial attack out of it, X is good because you can combo out of it with Y,Y,Y which leads to many mixups when you dash cancel it or do something which I'll mention soon (seriously, it's useful).

If you approach from the ground rather than Spidermanning your way in there, XX is my main tool of approaching, but Down+Y is nice too as it is a quick poke that moves you forward slightly and combos into Forward+A.

As mentioned in an earlier post, getting life back is one of Sceptiles gimmicks with Giga Drain (Down+A). Looking at what was just said, we can combo into it in several ways... Leaf Blade (Forward A, the Second hit of XX and the third hit of YYY, the large ranged blade) sets up enemies at practically the perfect range to land a Giga Drain. So using what was just mentioned...

Enemy trying to get in? Have you hit them with A,Y while trying to keep them out? Combo into YY, then throw out Down+A. Big damage and you get life back.

Just used vine swing and hit the enemy with Aerial X after it? Combo into YYY to throw out LeafBlade... Down+A. Get some life back.

Close range and you land XX or YYY? Combo that into Down+A.

Now, this isn't 100% foolproof. They can jump out of it or move/dash out the way. But it's pretty safe. If they dash forward, it puts them within grabbing range. If they jump, you can pretty much Shield before most attacks will touch you. Dash back, you're safe. Mixing all of the above with counters, Counter Attack Dash Cancels, and grabs, can make Sceptile pretty tricky.

If you do either XX or YYY, if they block the first X or haven't gotten hit by the second Y, dash cancel them (Block+forward or back). If you dash backwards, it leaves you safe and you've created room to setup traps. If you dash forward, you can either go into another combo, you can grab the enemy, you can charge a counter attack, you can do A to hop up and do whatever you want, drop down on them with X, throw out a quick Y, throw out some seeds with A... It's up to you, mix it up, keep them guessing. You get the idea.

He might not have the best frame data or power behind his moves, and has some weaknesses, but he's got plenty to keep him going. I think because some characters are pretty damn strong (Gengar, Suicune, Braixen, Pikachu etc), it makes Sceptile look pretty lame in comparison. No doubt the game will be balanced though and he'll either look better in comparison and/or get some buffs. That's just how I play as him though or what is going through my mind as I play as him, it seems to be working out pretty well anyway.
Just some things to add:

Sceptile's life-stealing moves don't steal just that, but also some of the opponent's synergy gauge, which is arguably even more important not just for allowing Sceptile use his own highly effective burst more but denying the opponent's which is key vs. the likes of Gengar and Mewtwo.

If you've laid down a series of traps in field with the opponent hanging back behind them, use Growth (back+y) to gain more synergy without fighting. It can also act as a fairly effective wall against Speed characters, but watch for powerful ranged attacks.

The vine swing is actually a counter called Detect, which stuns the opponent if timed correctly.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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Just some things to add:

Sceptile's life-stealing moves don't steal just that, but also some of the opponent's synergy gauge, which is arguably even more important not just for allowing Sceptile use his own highly effective burst more but denying the opponent's which is key vs. the likes of Gengar and Mewtwo.

If you've laid down a series of traps in field with the opponent hanging back behind them, use Growth (back+y) to gain more synergy without fighting. It can also act as a fairly effective wall against Speed characters, but watch for powerful ranged attacks.

The vine swing is actually a counter called Detect, which stuns the opponent if timed correctly.

Ah yeah, I forgot to add that in, it was like 3AM and I was dying on my feet, but still I decided it'd be a good idea to post XD

As for Growth, it's useful but takes a LONG time to work. It basically means you need to decide whether to keep pressure on, which is best against zoners as they'll pelt you with projectiles (Suicune, braixen etc), Blaziken, Machamp etc is a safe bet to pull out Growth though as their projectiles are slow. You can dash cancel out of Growth too to be safe though if anyone does get in.

Yeah I completely forgot to add the detect part in too, it makes the vine swing (Hanging Motion) super safe as if you're hit during it they'll be stunned, once the counter ends you go straight into the swinging motion. If they hit you during that time you pretty much get a free combo in Duel Phase, in Field Phase you can pretty much go straight into a homing attack combo and initiate Duel Phase, or for simplicity you can drop right down on them if you're close enough with Aerial X and go into Duel Phase.
If you land it in Duel Phase, you can either do a Aerial X to drop down on them into YYY-Down+A during the vine swing (X combos are too slow and they'll recover from the stun), or you can use aerial Y to cancel the swing animation, then go into whatever combo you want. If you want to get a free toxic in (Up+Y, it lowers defence for those who are pretty new to Sceptile), cancel the swing with aerial Y then go for Up+Y the moment you hit the floor. If you're close enough you can grab them out of the Toxic and do some nice damage, if the opponent catches onto this you can always do counterattack. Mix it up, keep them guessing!

Speaking of Toxic (Up+Y), I've only found two ways to combo into it (Any debuff on an opponent is useful in a fighting game, it's a difficult move to land but it's so worth it, especially in this next combo). First is the way I mentioned above. Second is Up+X into Up+Y. After that, you can combo into X, Up+A (Leafstorm). With the Def debuff that does some pretty nice damage and looks really cool. If you can't get the timing down on the X though you can always go straight into Up+A from Up+X for an easier combo.

Damn I'm really loving Sceptile in this game, I think I'm gonna do a hints/tips video for him. XD
 
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Guess I'll hop on the Sceptile hype train. I hear Sceptile has a really effective projectile and cancel game. Is there character icons available yet or no?
 

meleebrawler

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Ah yeah, I forgot to add that in, it was like 3AM and I was dying on my feet, but still I decided it'd be a good idea to post XD

As for Growth, it's useful but takes a LONG time to work. It basically means you need to decide whether to keep pressure on, which is best against zoners as they'll pelt you with projectiles (Suicune, braixen etc), Blaziken, Machamp etc is a safe bet to pull out Growth though as their projectiles are slow. You can dash cancel out of Growth too to be safe though if anyone does get in.

Yeah I completely forgot to add the detect part in too, it makes the vine swing (Hanging Motion) super safe as if you're hit during it they'll be stunned, once the counter ends you go straight into the swinging motion. If they hit you during that time you pretty much get a free combo in Duel Phase, in Field Phase you can pretty much go straight into a homing attack combo and initiate Duel Phase, or for simplicity you can drop right down on them if you're close enough with Aerial X and go into Duel Phase.
If you land it in Duel Phase, you can either do a Aerial X to drop down on them into YYY-Down+A during the vine swing (X combos are too slow and they'll recover from the stun), or you can use aerial Y to cancel the swing animation, then go into whatever combo you want. If you want to get a free toxic in (Up+Y, it lowers defence for those who are pretty new to Sceptile), cancel the swing with aerial Y then go for Up+Y the moment you hit the floor. If you're close enough you can grab them out of the Toxic and do some nice damage, if the opponent catches onto this you can always do counterattack. Mix it up, keep them guessing!

Speaking of Toxic (Up+Y), I've only found two ways to combo into it (Any debuff on an opponent is useful in a fighting game, it's a difficult move to land but it's so worth it, especially in this next combo). First is the way I mentioned above. Second is Up+X into Up+Y. After that, you can combo into X, Up+A (Leafstorm). With the Def debuff that does some pretty nice damage and looks really cool. If you can't get the timing down on the X though you can always go straight into Up+A from Up+X for an easier combo.

Damn I'm really loving Sceptile in this game, I think I'm gonna do a hints/tips video for him. XD
The detect counter ALSO lowers defence. Also, if the field side+y lingers long enough without being tripped, it explodes (I keep learning new things).

I can see Sceptile being a huge pain for characters with slow Synergy buildup like Gengar and Mewtwo.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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The detect counter ALSO lowers defence. Also, if the field side+y lingers long enough without being tripped, it explodes (I keep learning new things).

I can see Sceptile being a huge pain for characters with slow Synergy buildup like Gengar and Mewtwo.

Does it? I never noticed that... The Defence drop I mean. And yeah, it creates a small circle on the ground that will explode if they walk into it, just another trap you can throw down to keep them occupied. c:

I'm trying my best to learn and come up with new things, I really enjoy his play style, which is weird because I usually go for an all out offence when it comes to picking characters in fighting games, rather than someone who requires setups and such.
 

meleebrawler

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Sheesh, I just realized Sceptile uses quite a bit of Street Fighter moves. His field forward+y is a Flash Kick, his duel grab starts with a Shoryuken, and both his field grab and tendency to throw porjectiles from the air resemble Ibuki's moves.
 

meleebrawler

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So Sceptile heals recoverable HP while in high stance... and I thought it would be his bushy tail doing something. Anyway, we'll call it Synthesis.
 

Acker

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I know how to get it, I mean optimizing the damage from a wall combo
Probably it's not optimized but I like to do a simple Up Y followed by a Leaf Storm (Up A).
This combo does ~150 damage and leaves you with an attack down debuff, but it's not that bad considering that your opponent will have a defense down debuff and you'll get a nice increase at the Synergy Gauge for landing the Leaf Storm.
 

NinjaLink

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Probably it's not optimized but I like to do a simple Up Y followed by a Leaf Storm (Up A).
This combo does ~150 damage and leaves you with an attack down debuff, but it's not that bad considering that your opponent will have a defense down debuff and you'll get a nice increase at the Synergy Gauge for landing the Leaf Storm.
depending on the situation, it might not work. Also you only wanna resort to leaf storm for kill or antiair situations due to the debuff. You should get alot more doing a combo. After the forward+weak (delayed weak), go for stand strong as it will most likely trigger a phase shift. Cancel that strong into A~Weak for the razor leaf setup. If you dont want that, go for the up+weak for the defense down.
Just try not to do leafstorm in a long combo due to scaling as it isnt worth getting 5-6 more damage.
 

Acker

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depending on the situation, it might not work. Also you only wanna resort to leaf storm for kill or antiair situations due to the debuff. You should get alot more doing a combo. After the forward+weak (delayed weak), go for stand strong as it will most likely trigger a phase shift. Cancel that strong into A~Weak for the razor leaf setup. If you dont want that, go for the up+weak for the defense down.
Just try not to do leafstorm in a long combo due to scaling as it isnt worth getting 5-6 more damage.
Yes, it doesn't work always, like for example when the opponent hit the wall too low.
The combo you described is generally better but it's also more likely to trigger a phase shift so it's not always the better option for maximizing the damage.

Also yeah, using Leaf Storm in a long combo is definitely not worth it, in fact I use it only after an up+weak on an aerial opponent or I just use it alone when I have the chance to hit.
 

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Yes, it doesn't work always, like for example when the opponent hit the wall too low.
The combo you described is generally better but it's also more likely to trigger a phase shift so it's not always the better option for maximizing the damage.

Also yeah, using Leaf Storm in a long combo is definitely not worth it, in fact I use it only after an up+weak on an aerial opponent or I just use it alone when I have the chance to hit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...irWZpV1UIXNYLCb8uq-uPiK3JE/edit#gid=991385235 phase shift info

Its more damage regardless. Max damage is gonna phase shift no matter what.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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I haven't labbed wall combos too much, but I know the one I said before works (Up+X, Up+Y, X, Up+A). Incorperates his Toxic debuff and Leaf Storm. I found that it doesn't seem to land on Pikachu though because of how small they are, so skip the X and you should land it.
 

meleebrawler

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So how come Sceptile is classified as a Speed-type character when he looks far more technical?
He really does have good speed, fast enough to avoid most projectiles in field by running, and also the detect swing + plus hanging. We only have three Speed characters, two of which are basically rushdown but that doesn't mean Sceptile has to be.

...Can Sceptile wall-jump?
 

Baby_Sneak

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Heres some of my matches
You're a much more executional player than I am. How you incorporate all the attacks in field phase is beyond my use. I kinda use basic stuff and triumph with fundamentals and knowledge of my opponent. You can do the combo dojo combos consistently well and your combos off of a air-air confrontation is unexplored territory for me. I just CA their attacks and punish (I don't even go for the combo after the CA lol). Your use of down X is a little shaky imo, lots of risk. You never use down Y which is a bit weird for me, since it's a long range poke that's 0 on block and fast all around. How you stop your opponent's assist from coming out is new for me as well, Very good support knowledge. Your constant use of Down A is very striking to me, as I wonder why your opponent didn't catch on. Your opponent loves to hit the normal attack buttons and he kinda kept doing it, which lead to him getting blown up a whole bunch (PS: the pika libre grab with the web animation isn't her normal grab, it's a command grab). Your use of the projectiles during dual phase was basically flat out solid. I can't think of anything wrong there. You constructed a projectile game that I haven't seen before out of sceptile (I've only used bullet seeds as block strings, combo starters and space control).

What a cool different perspective (PS: I've only watched like 5 games).
 
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NinjaLink

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You're a much more executional player than I am. How you incorporate all the attacks in field phase is beyond my use. I kinda use basic stuff and triumph with fundamentals and knowledge of my opponent. You can do the combo dojo combos consistently well and your combos off of a air-air confrontation is unexplored territory for me. I just CA their attacks and punish (I don't even go for the combo after the CA lol). Your use of down X is a little shaky imo, lots of risk. You never use down Y which is a bit weird for me, since it's a long range poke that's 0 on block and fast all around. How you stop your opponent's assist from coming out is new for me as well, Very good support knowledge. Your constant use of Down A is very striking to me, as I wonder why your opponent didn't catch on. Your opponent loves to hit the normal attack buttons and he kinda kept doing it, which lead to him getting blown up a whole bunch (PS: the pika libre grab with the web animation isn't her normal grab, it's a command grab). Your use of the projectiles during dual phase was basically flat out solid. I can't think of anything wrong there. You constructed a projectile game that I haven't seen before out of sceptile (I've only used bullet seeds as block strings, combo starters and space control).

What a cool different perspective (PS: I've only watched like 5 games).
I dont do the combo dojo stuff really. The jump loop has 1 more rep that combo dojo has i recall lol Just the stuff i found watching japanese matches during arcade release.
I did what you did when I first played cause i got confused pressing the wrong buttons lol. Now that I am comfortable with the buttons, I do my option coverage. Now it's to maximize damage output because I feel like I give too many chances for my opponent to come back.
I do use low Y to bait things and i do low X to catch ppl offguard. Its safe from a distance. I have better wakeup game due to things i found. I'll upload that soon enough. You watched 5 matches so I guess you missed that stuff >.> Thanks for the critique.
 
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Acker

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Heres some of my matches
Wow, I love your Sceptile, really solid and how you play in field phase is phenomenal, I usually put things on the field and I try to bait the opponent but how you use all those projectiles is incredible for me.
In duel phase you pressure the opponent constantly and very well, also your wall combos are definitely better than mine even if the damage scaling is really high (I noticed that the last Leaf Blade does only 5 damage).

Keep up the good work!
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,029
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
I dont do the combo dojo stuff really. The jump loop has 1 more rep that combo dojo has i recall lol Just the stuff i found watching japanese matches during arcade release.
I did what you did when I first played cause i got confused pressing the wrong buttons lol. Now that I am comfortable with the buttons, I do my option coverage. Now it's to maximize damage output because I feel like I give too many chances for my opponent to come back.
I do use low Y to bait things and i do low X to catch ppl offguard. Its safe from a distance. I have better wakeup game due to things i found. I'll upload that soon enough. You watched 5 matches so I guess you missed that stuff >.> Thanks for the critique.
You had a hour of footage, i can't look at all that lol.
 
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