"Input Assist mode" should be called "HDTV mode"

[uCooL]

Initially I thought it was only to help people transfer over from Brawl. People playing on HDTVs probably don't care about the competitive scene that much, but turning on Input assist may make it feel a little more fluid on digital screens(but mess you up that much more if you ever play on a CRT with input assist).

Having the buffer on may compensate a bit for the laggy input lag of HDTVs.

For those of you who do play on digital screens, do you leave it input assist on? Why or why not?

EDIT: Should the name "Input assist mode" be changed to "HDTV mode"?

 

[Zujx]

Can you clarify what input assist is?

When i'm playing at home I always play on HDTVs and when I'm playing it elsewhere I play on CRTs honestly never noticed a difference

 

[Sai_]

I have an HDTV but I don't notice any lag. I'm not sure what kind of test I can do to make sure.

 

[uCooL]

Can you clarify what input assist is?

When i'm playing at home I always play on HDTVs and when I'm playing it elsewhere I play on CRTs honestly never noticed a difference

Input assist activates brawls 3-frame input buffer.

 

[uCooL]

I have an HDTV but I don't notice any lag. I'm not sure what kind of test I can do to make sure.

as soon as i switched from a HDTV to a CRT i immediately noticed a difference. I played on an HDTV for years and thought i didn't have any lag either.

 

[Phaiyte]

If you're using component cables, chances are there isn't any lag at all unless the tv's native resolution was like 4k.

 

[uCooL]

If you're using component cables, chances are there isn't any lag at all unless the tv's native resolution was like 4k.

There will always be lag on an HDTV. The wii puts out an analog signal, HDTVs are digital. So it goes wii > HDTV > HDTV converts the Wiis video output from analog to digital (this step is where most of the input lag comes from) > HDTV applies post-processing effects to the picture to make it look better (this step also contributes to lag) > Wii's output displayed on the screen.

Every HDTV has lag, theres no way around it. Some HDTVs have "game mode" which eliminates some lag by turning off some post- processing effects, but the analog to digital conversion process will always be there and thats where the majority of the lag comes from.

If anyone thinks their HDTV doesn't lag, that just means you've gotten used to it. Your muscle memory and timing is now based on your TVs laggy response time.

TLDR: Get a CRT even if you think your HDTV doesn't have input lag if you really wanna get better

 

[smashbro29]

Yeah you need a way to convert analog to digital. You'll still have lag but only the TV's native lag.

 

[uCooL]

Yeah you need a way to convert analog to digital. You'll still have lag but only the TV's native lag.

Ya but the TVs native "lag" is the problem. Upscaling takes time, theres no way around it. MLG uses those special gaming Acer LCD screens and there's still around 5ms of input lag on them when using analog video in connections.

 

[smashbro29]

Ya but the TVs native "lag" is the problem. Upscaling takes time, theres no way around it. MLG uses those special gaming Acer LCD screens and there's still around 5ms of input lag on them when using analog video in connections.

Upscaling isn't the issue.

The first hurdle is analog to digital. Easily solvable with a small adapter I can link to. (Keep in mind it will only function in 480p mode)

The second hurdle is your TV's input lag via HDMI. Every HDTV lags a little but finding the right one will have so little it won't matter.

 

[uCooL]

Upscaling isn't the issue.

The first hurdle is analog to digital. Easily solvable with a small adapter I can link to. (Keep in mind it will only function in 480p mode)

The second hurdle is your TV's input lag via HDMI. Every HDTV lags a little but finding the right one will have so little it won't matter.

upscaling is an issue unless your LCD natively supports 480p. I would like to see what adapter you're referring to though.

 

[smashbro29]

upscaling is an issue unless your LCD natively supports 480p. I would like to see what adapter you're referring to though.

Upscaling is not the issue.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-For-Wii...Wii2hdmi-3-5mm-Audio-Output-Box-/291036376425

You want to make absolutely sure it doesn't upscale the image. The upscaling versions are laggy little things. Make sure it just gives a digital 480p signal and nothing else.

 

[Kati]

@op

No it should not, because then users on crt's wouldn't consider input assist.

 

[uCooL]

@op

No it should not, because then users on crt's wouldn't consider input assist.

They shouldn't anyway.

 

[Strong Badam]

to the title: no, it shouldn't.

 

[uCooL]

Upscaling is not the issue.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-For-Wii...Wii2hdmi-3-5mm-Audio-Output-Box-/291036376425

You want to make absolutely sure it doesn't upscale the image. The upscaling versions are laggy little things. Make sure it just gives a digital 480p signal and nothing else.

If you set your HDTV to "just scan" or 480p mode and use this device, your TV or display will no loner contribute to the input lag.
BUT this (and any) converter takes the analog signal and converts it to digital. So now the lag is coming form the converter, and not the HDTV.

 

[smashbro29]

If you set your HDTV to "just scan" or 480p mode and use this device, your TV or display will no loner contribute to the input lag.
BUT this (and any) converter takes the analog signal and converts it to digital. So now the lag is coming form the converter, and not the HDTV.

There's a version of it that just does the analog to digital conversion without any upscaling. I'm just too lazy to find that specific version.

 

[uCooL]

There's a version of it that just does the analog to digital conversion without any upscaling. I'm just too lazy to find that specific version.

I believe you, I'm just saying the conversion process is unavoidable. The conversion process also contributes to the lagginess of HDTVs

 

[Kati]

You admit that it is there to help people making the transition. It also can help people who are reluctant to learn a.t's or just have difficulty learning them, so yes, crt users can benefit from this feature pmbr has granted us. You can always change the name yourself with brawlbox.

 

[uCooL]

You admit that it is there to help people making the transition. It also can help people who are reluctant to learn a.t's or just have difficulty learning them, so yes, crt users can benefit from this feature pmbr has granted us. You can always change the name yourself with brawlbox.

well yea i could change it in BB, but that wouldn't really serve any purpose. Its not a big deal, it was just a thought i had concerning lag, HDTVs, and how the input assist works.

 

[Dragonglove]

Ya but the TVs native "lag" is the problem. Upscaling takes time, theres no way around it. MLG uses those special gaming Acer LCD screens and there's still around 5ms of input lag on them when using analog video in connections.

I just want to point out that 16ms is one frame when running at 60 fps. With the right setup you can generally get to about 1 frame of lag on a good TV.

 

[uCooL]

I just want to point out that 16ms is one frame when running at 60 fps. With the right setup you can generally get to about 1 frame of lag on a good TV.

I agree with you.

 

[210stuna]

So Wiis are bad, and Gamecubes are the best?

Even though the Wii doesn't support HDMI cables exactly like the Cube, and because it plays Gamecube games just like the the Gamecube does?

 

[uCooL]

So Wiis are bad, and Gamecubes are the best?

Even though the Wii doesn't support HDMI cables exactly like the Cube, and because it plays Gamecube games just like the the Gamecube does?

Wouldn't that logic make wiis superior? wii is a gamecube AND then some. Not to mention component cables are everywhere and cheap!

 

[210stuna]

That's my point exactly

if anything playing Melee on a Wii should make things better

 

[WheelerFGC]

I understand that this benefits Wii's on HDTVs, but what about Wii U?

 

[uCooL]

That's my point exactly

if anything playing Melee on a Wii should make things better

its exactly the same. The only thing that makes the wii better for GC games is the fact that component cables are so easy to find.

 

[uCooL]

I understand that this benefits Wii's on HDTVs, but what about Wii U?

the wiiU upscales the 480p vWii signal to 1080p/720p (what ever yours is set to) internally and then shoots it to the TV.

Im not sure on the hardware but i would bet the Wiiu's internal upscaler is better than a lot of HDTVs from >2012 at least. I say this based on technology incrementally improving over time, and not some random Nintendo fan boy logic.

So as far as playing GC games on the Wiiu, there will theoretically be less input lag...however, not using hardwired controllers PROBABLY negates whatever little gain you may have had using the Wiius internal upscaler.

I played Melee for a few weeks on my Wiiu in vWii mode using a Wiiu pro controller and the De-evolution app. It felt pretty responsive(technically speaking), but i couldn't get wave dashing down consistently because the triggers are digital and have a much shorter press time than the GC controller.

This is all through HDMI though, if you use component cables with your wiiU and hook it up to a CRT, it will be exactly the same as the wii....save for the fact you can't use any hardwired controllers.

 

[210stuna]

its exactly the same. The only thing that makes the wii better for GC games is the fact that component cables are so easy to find.

So what is the difference between a CRT TV and a non CRT TV and it's not an HD TV?
Is there still no difference with the Wii and Cube on these two TVs?

 

[uCooL]

So what is the difference between a CRT TV and a non CRT TV and it's not an HD TV?
Is there still no difference with the Wii and Cube on these two TVs?

HDTV general refers to LCD and plasma TVs. There are some HD CRTs floating around, but they're incredibly heavy and most only support up to 1080i.

As long as the TV you're using uses cathode ray tube (CRT) technology, and not a liquid crystal display (LCD) then you're good.

 

[210stuna]

As long as the TV you're using uses cathode ray tube (CRT) technology, and not a liquid crystal display (LCD) then you're good.

Why is this though?
In what universe is older technology better?

 

[Abeebo]

Why is this though?
In what universe is older technology better?

There will always be lag on an HDTV. The wii puts out an analog signal, HDTVs are digital. So it goes wii > HDTV > HDTV converts the Wiis video output from analog to digital (this step is where most of the input lag comes from) > HDTV applies post-processing effects to the picture to make it look better (this step also contributes to lag) > Wii's output displayed on the screen.

 

[uCooL]

Why is this though?
In what universe is older technology better?

I feel you, it's partly nintendo's fault though. When the 360 and ps3 had HDMI outs and were forging ahead in the graphics dept and utilizing HDTVs....Nintendo opted to still support Standard definition TVs with their console...and now were lugging around CRTs because of it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wouldn't that logic make wiis superior? wii is a gamecube AND then some. Not to mention component cables are everywhere and cheap!

The bulk of the Wii's weight is Gamecube hardware, and even then that ****ty optical drive is less than desirable compared to the Cube's.

Why is this though?
In what universe is older technology better?

In any universe where one cares about lag. For most fighting game players, the PS3 is a preferable console and controller due to its higher specs and better D-Pad, but 360s are still used in tournament over PS3s because 1.) Most people just use sticks anyway, and 2.) the 360 doesn't suffer any lag from the controller's input.

 

[Bleck]

I play on an HDTV, and I don't have the buffer on. Then again, I've never turned it on, so I'm not really sure what the difference would be.

 

[uCooL]

I play on an HDTV, and I don't have the buffer on. Then again, I've never turned it on, so I'm not really sure what the difference would be.

Play on a CRT and on your first match youll feel the difference.

 

[210stuna]

Any CRT is a box tv right?
I could go down to trader's village

 

[Daftatt]

I was playing on HDTV for a long time, then Shadic made me play on his CRT whenever we played. so I invested in a nice 480P native LCD TV, it's not very big and it's square, but there is no lag and it looks a lot better than playing on a CRT (it's very bright and colorful).

 

[uCooL]

Any CRT is a box tv right?
I could go down to trader's village

Yes sir, i got my first one at the hope chest (its like good will). for an added benefit, find one with component inputs so you can have a much sharper 480i picture.

 

[uCooL]

I was playing on HDTV for a long time, then Shadic made me play on his CRT whenever we played. so I invested in a nice 480P native LCD TV, it's not very big and it's square, but there is no lag and it looks a lot better than playing on a CRT (it's very bright and colorful).

native 480p is amazing. It really is that much better than 480i.