Information Marth vs Link

[flaco]

Well I hear some people saying Link counters marth to my knowledge of smash bros melee that's not right,also there is a tier list.

first off

Marth advantages.

1.faster
2.more range
3.A disjointed hit box
4.A good edge guarded[edgehog]

Now Links advantages
1.projectiles[Including bombs,boomerang,etc]
2.longer grab range [although very slow]

All right guys you be the judges

For me marth counters Link

What do you think?

 

[Cactuar]

Well I hear some people saying Link counters marth to my knowledge of smash bros melee that's not right,also there is a tier list.

The tier list doesn't matter in this situation... A lower tier character can counter a higher tier character. Tiers are based on overall matchups strength.

Also, there are only like 5 people who have used Link well competitively, while 1293457892389475 people think they are good with Marth, meaning the average competitive Link player likely has much more experience in the matchup than the Marth player does.

This equates to us not really having a very solid foundation of how much each strength and weakness of either character really applies in the matchup.

I personally feel that Link does do well vs Marth. I wouldn't say he beats Marth, but Link doesn't have that much of a disadvantage.

 

[DJMirror]

I been wondering about this match up because i might want to play someone *cough* Germ *cough* i have no knowledge on this match up beside spacing and getting to link face but that all i know

what should i do in this match up?

 

[flaco]

The tier list doesn't matter in this situation... A lower tier character can counter a higher tier character. Tiers are based on overall matchups strength.

Also, there are only like 5 people who have used Link well competitively, while 1293457892389475 people think they are good with Marth, meaning the average competitive Link player likely has much more experience in the matchup than the Marth player does.

This equates to us not really having a very solid foundation of how much each strength and weakness of either character really applies in the matchup.

I personally feel that Link does do well vs Marth. I wouldn't say he beats Marth, but Link doesn't have that much of a disadvantage.

so tell me why did they even make a tier list?

Is like these a low tier character could beat a high tier character if the guy that is using the high tier character skill level is low the same for the low tier character if he has a higher skill level he will win.

But the tier list is their to remind you guys that the higher tier character has and advantage to the lower tier character that's all so that the purpose of the tier list cactuar
Also

What is the tier list?

A. The tier list ranks how a character does against the rest of the cast as a whole.
-It does not rank a character against another individual character. For example, if a character is ranked number 3, that does not mean it is good against the character ranked number 4. It means that it is better than character number 4 against the entire cast in general.

When does the tier list apply?

B. The tier list applies in 1 vs. 1 play with items turned off.

C. The tier list applies when the two players are fairly equal in skill.
-This is why you can't say Bowser is the best character when you beat every CPU character with Bowser. You are not playing someone of equal skill.

D. The tier list applies when the two players are also very proficient with their characters.
-This means if you see a Ganondorf CPU beat every other CPU character, it does not mean that Ganondorf is the best character. The CPU is not proficient with any character.


and like you said

, but Link doesn't have that much of a disadvantage.

Like you said that much of a disavantage,but he has a bit of disadvantage cactuar

@jkun well evade the projectiles also use your tippers another while he uses the projectiles punish it for them thats all

 

[NES n00b]

so tell me why did they even make a tier list?

Because overall matchups are pretty important. If you are higher tier, it usually just means that you have a higher chance of having a good matchup vs characters of a lowerer tier. Well in smash it usually does mean you have a better matchup against that character cause Smash isn't the most balanced game, but an example would be bison against e honda in Super Turbo. Even though Bison is higher on the list, E Honda still has a really favorable matchup against him.

So don't assume someone has a good matchup against someone lower then them just because of the tier list. Again, it is only overall matchups. Definitely a safer bet to say that the lower tiered character would have a less favorable matchup against a top tier, but that is not always true.

 

[SinceEternity]

ganon does fairly well against marth also ^^, but link is really hard to approach and just corner. I mean seriously, you space any aerial against link and miss - and you get grabbed for it. Feels so wierd getting grabbed from that long range >_>. anyways, how do you guys edgeguard against his chain?

 

[flaco]

did you guys see the purpose of the tier list?

 

[NES n00b]

did you guys see the purpose of the tier list?

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Overall matchups =/= individual matchups. Tier lists are made up by the total individual matchups. Sometimes lower tier characters have evenish or good matchups against characters higher than them.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. Flaco copied the definition of the tier list and doesn't even understand what it meant.

@SinceEternity

Watch me vs Skler. They are really old vids, but really, that was the last time I have played a Link in tournament. I never really edgeguard the hookshot recovery. I dtilt as he comes up in case he misspaced and immediately retreat backwards. I think I wrote a guide about playing against Link at some point, but the important thing is really just knowing how to deal with each of his projectiles, as well as knowing that, if you jump immediately after landing any aerial on his shield, you really can't be grabbed.

 

[SinceEternity]

oh, i didn't realize that jumping was an option xD. usually I ended up sidestepping it(which is bad) after realizing my normal shield,poke, or wd back out of aerials didn't work.

 

[Cactuar]

If you are properly spaced and the link doesn't have a projectile ready, they have no option which can punish you iirc.

If you are properly spaced and the Link has a bomb, they could hit you with that. They might try to throw a boomerang at you, but those can be swatted easily.

If you are close and try jump immediately, they could potentially nair you, as his nair comes out faster than your fair.

There are possibly more options, so adapt this strategy as needed. I haven't played a Link in a long time, so I don't really remember all the minor details.

 

[flaco]

lol you said about skill level and I do know what it means so your telling me that link is better that marth cactuar?

 

[Cactuar]

I don't think I said that anywhere. You really never have any idea what you are talking about. Troll troll.

 

[flaco]

I don't think I said that anywhere. You really never have any idea what you are talking about. Troll troll.

lol emblem lord was right about you you are arrogant and unfriendly

 

[Cactuar]

False. I'm elitist and impatient. Your stupidity bothers me. ^^

And Emblem Lord would not say that I'm unfriendly.

 

[flaco]

you sure I could actually quote that from him

 

[SinceEternity]

wooot, I played a link today - hella gayness to the max, 5-6 min matches and I hate that stupiddd nair. okay, link is gay - marth is cool, but link is too gay for an aggressive marth to handle.

 

[ArcNatural]

wooot, I played a link today - hella gayness to the max, 5-6 min matches and I hate that stupiddd nair. okay, link is gay - marth is cool, but link is too gay for an aggressive marth to handle.

Your opinion on what an aggressive Marth is, probably isn't very accurate. Link can't shield grab and if you space correctly all he can attempt to do is nair OOS. The only time this changes is when he has an item. Link does this matchup best when he can follow your patterns well based on what you do against his items. So as long as you change it up and be aggressive and smart you should be ok. Countering their upB recovery also works great until they learn to sweet spot it. I'll agree that it's a decent matchup for Link.

And Flaco/Cactuar if you want to argue over the understanding of the tier list take it to pms.

In my opinion though Flaco your just taking the tier list WAY too literally. I know English isn't your first language just understand that Marth has better matchups OVERALL than Link has. Which makes him a better character overall. Just because Marth is evenish with Link,Ganon, Donkey Kong, etc. Doesn't make those characters any better against the other characters Marth does better against.

Marth vs Fox = even.
Link vs Fox = Fox is something like 70-30 here.

Which matchup is more important? Odds of playing a Fox or Marth is much higher than playing a Link.

 

[ComboTurtle]

arc flaco is obviously trolling, no one is that stupid hit him up with infraction **** imo

 

[flaco]

Your opinion on what an aggressive Marth is, probably isn't very accurate. Link can't shield grab and if you space correctly all he can attempt to do is nair OOS. The only time this changes is when he has an item. Link does this matchup best when he can follow your patterns well based on what you do against his items. So as long as you change it up and be aggressive and smart you should be ok. Countering their upB recovery also works great until they learn to sweet spot it. I'll agree that it's a decent matchup for Link.

And Flaco/Cactuar if you want to argue over the understanding of the tier list take it to pms.

In my opinion though Flaco your just taking the tier list WAY too literally. I know English isn't your first language just understand that Marth has better matchups OVERALL than Link has. Which makes him a better character overall. Just because Marth is evenish with Link,Ganon, Donkey Kong, etc. Doesn't make those characters any better against the other characters Marth does better against.

Marth vs Fox = even.
Link vs Fox = Fox is something like 70-30 here.

Which matchup is more important? Odds of playing a Fox or Marth is much higher than playing a Link.

that's all i wanted to say marth has a better match up overall over link now for cactuar is a joke although he does not like my opinion he his a pretty cool dude now am not trolling so dont acuse me of it

 

[Lovage]

what the **** is this

cactus can be arrogant because he's ****ing cactus
and hes extremely friendly
eat a dikkup

 

[Tomacawk]

I remember when I met cactuar at event 52
He's been one of the friendlies and most fun smashers i've met

 

[flaco]

could you guys get to point of the thread

 

[Spife]

To quote AOI (when he hears anyone say Link counters Marth)..."SHUT THE **** UP!"
haha AOI"s awesome

anyway, no Link doesn't counter Marth in the slightest. I'm not going to tell you why Flaco cause we have money riding on a set just like this, but I will say that Arc is right, playing a fox/marth is much more likely, considering there are up to 4 Link mains who frequent MM (one will beat your socks off, one's named Spife, and I'm sure there are a few more, I've seen them, just not more than once or twice).

I will say though that of all the upper tiers (Fox Marth Sheik Falco) Link has the easiest time with Marth cause the other 3 feel like man handling him, in my experiences. I agree with Cactuar, the matchup is in Marth's favor but not by much. There are things that Link can do to wreck Marth and Marth needs to know what those are and how to prevent them, but the same goes back to Marth (in terms of ****** Link), which is true for a lot of other match ups.
Also I think the first time I played Cactuar was at RoM, and even though he was sick he was still willing to **** me more than once, even though I played Link

 

[NES n00b]

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Overall matchups =/= individual matchups. Tier lists are made up by the total individual matchups. Sometimes lower tier characters have evenish or good matchups against characters higher than them.

You must have bad eyes or something so I am posting it again except bigger this time.

 

[Spife]

You must have bad eyes or something so I am posting it again except bigger this time.

yeah like, Kirby sucks but he counters sheik, but he still sucks.


>.>;

 

[NES n00b]

yeah like, Kirby sucks but he counters sheik, but he still sucks.


>.>;

yeah like, Link totally sucks but he has a good matchup with Samus, but he still sucks.

>.>;

Edit: If people can't read a simple definition of a tier list, then I give up.

 

[Spife]

yeah like, Link totally sucks but he has a good matchup with Samus, but he still sucks.

>.>;

Edit: If people can't read a simple definition of a tier list, then I give up.

He has a good match up vs samus?
I hate playing against samus (all 5 times lul)
Not enough samooses in tourny

 

[flaco]

So all we agree that link has a little disavantage against marht correct

 

[Havokbringer]

So all we agree that link has a little disavantage against marht correct

Why are people still bringing this up I thought we agreed about this back in 2007?

Go to the Ask Cactuar questions thread and ask there.

Or put some vids up and make a Critque thread.

 

[ArcNatural]

Or close the thread because everything has been said.