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Improvements I'd like to see in SSB4.

~ Valkyrie ~

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noirscythe said:
Oh wait, I just remembered you don't play fighting games.

HAH
And here we have a Melee-elitist acting like a ****ing smartass.
Great way to slip insulting remarks when discussing about gimping mechanics.

Melee VS Brawl-styled debates are freaking hilarious to read at times.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

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And here we have a Melee-elitist acting like a ****ing smartass.
Great way to slip insults or false assumptions when discussing about gimping mechanics.

Melee VS Brawl-styled debates are freaking hilarious to read at times.
That's not an assumption. He admitted himself he doesn't play them.

YOU'RE making an assumption.

Brawl scrubs are funny.
 

Biz_R_0

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Actually I did say in a different thread that the only fighting games I play are Smash and SF4. Although I like how he's implying that my personal preference of video games invalidates my opinion and that he decides to word "this is your opinion" as an insult and then laugh at it. MASTER DEBATER.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

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Actually I did say in a different thread that the only fighting games I play are Smash and SF4. Although I like how he's implying that my personal preference of video games invalidates my opinion and that he decides to word "this is your opinion" as an insult and then laugh at it. MASTER DEBATER.
I like how people still think that the opinion card is valuable even after middle-school. It helps weed out the philistines in arguments.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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That's not an assumption. He admitted himself he doesn't play them.

YOU'RE making an assumption.
Like I had said anything about you assumpting anything. All I said is that you're acting like an immature jerkass because this guy doesn't seem to be having the same gaming preferences or experiences as you do. Go ahead, try to make us all be catered towards Melee rather than Brawl then. Let's see how fast you achieve that up.

Also congratulations for us to think even more of of you more as a troll than someone to actually take seriously.

Brawl scrubs are funny.
And you're giving Melee's competitive community a bad name.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

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Like I had said anything about you assumpting anything.
Great way to slip insults or false assumptions
All I said is that you're acting like an immature jerkass because this guy doesn't seem to be having the same gaming preferences or experiences as you do. Go ahead, try to make us all be catered towards Melee rather than Brawl then. Let's see how fast you achieve that up.

Also congratulations for us to think even more of of you more as a troll than someone to actually take seriously.
Oh god, you just scream "shortbus". I wonder if you really think anything you said is intelligent.



And you're giving Melee's competitive community a bad name.
To cognitively impaired generalizing dunces maybe.
 

Big-Cat

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Zelda should be able to switch instantly into Sheik just like Gen can switch stances in SF4. It would add a ****load of depth and provide a better reason to use the characters intermittently instead of having everyone treat them as separate characters all the time. Brawl was just stupid.
At this point, I'd prefer they become separate characters. Considering that the Link and Zelda in Smash are more or less combinations of the previous incarnations, who's to say you can't have "two Zeldas" in this case?

And I still want Zelda to be like her Project M self with hints of Mu-12, Rachel, or Parasoul.

IMPROVEMENT SUGGESTION:

Talking about mechanics that hinder comebacks. If footstool jumping is going to remain, make it a different command than just "jump". Make it pressing jump while holding up or something. I've lost in tournaments because that ******** mechanic ruined my perfect comeback edgeguard setup.

I'm so angry.
How about a Down+Jump input? And you're right, they should've come up with a specific input to avoid accidents like that.

Some improvement suggestions:
  • Pokemon Trainer works where you can choose the number of Pokemon in your team (think CvS2 or Skullgirls) and you can tag them in and out in the middle of combos.
  • Olimar's Pikmin plucking is not random, but that you must navigate the stage to pluck at specific parts for specific Pikmin. This would make Olimar oriented around controlling the stage to his advantage similar to a zoner but less projectiles.
  • Wolf's Side B becomes reminiscent of Jon Talbain's Beast Rush.
  • Make it so that not every attack is SDI-able, especially all but the last hit of multihit attacks.
  • Link's frame data is completely revamped along with new properties on moves like aimable arrows and rollable bombs.
  • Samus has a morph ball mode with Down B.
  • Zero Suit Samus becomes a Gen-type character switching between a "Gun" and a "Whip" moveset that emphasize different ranges.
  • Sonic's Down B becomes something like a morph ball mode for Sonic to merge his Down and Side B while his Side B is replaced with something different. Also, he needs better normals.
  • Dedede's Waddle Dee Toss can deliberately choose between the three enemies to toss with 9B, 6B, and 3B with them obviously being rebalanced to accommodate this.
  • Toon Link draws more from the cel-shaded games with things like controllable wind.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Oh god, you just scream "shortbus". I wonder if you really think anything you said is intelligent.
Oh, an overlooked detail I missed during arguing. I'll go fix that quick.

And here we have a Melee-elitist acting like a ****ing smartass.
Great way to slip insulting remarks when discussing about gimping mechanics.

Melee VS Brawl-styled debates are freaking hilarious to read at times.
Fixed.

To cognitively impaired generalizing dunces maybe.
*Yawn*

Well you just keep wasting your time with us if you think we're such a "dunces".

You could just creep back to your own community and discuss about us insultingly as much as you feel like without any of us getting to hear about it.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

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*Yawn*

Well you just keep wasting your time with us if you think we're such a "dunces".

You could just creep back to your own community and discuss about us insultingly as much as you feel like without any of us getting to hear about it.
Or you could just creep back where people can't make fun of you. I hear the shortbus is all about acceptance.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Or you could just creep back where people can't make fun of you. I hear the shortbus is all about acceptance.
Coming to a circle here which is that you're still acting like smartass douche.

You're one of the most bitter Melee-gamers I've ever seen. Hope you have fun dealing with the future installments of Smash Bros.
 

Baskerville

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At this point, I'd prefer they become separate characters. Considering that the Link and Zelda in Smash are more or less combinations of the previous incarnations, who's to say you can't have "two Zeldas" in this case?

And I still want Zelda to be like her Project M self with hints of Mu-12, Rachel, or Parasoul.
I approve of P:M Zelda as well, along Lucario & even Sonic if he returns of course. (since they're the only characters in P:M I actually like)
 

AttackParty

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If there's any one thing I would change in Brawl and implement in the new smash it would be the gravity. In Brawl it felt like you just couldn't gain any control over someone at all no matter how many times you hit them it seemed like you'd never be able to get a combo without knowing the game deeply on a competitive level. If they took out the Brawl Air-dodging and put in Melee Air-dodging again I think it would be an improvement, I don't like not being able to control my character the way I want to so why not just bring wavelanding and wavedashing back? It's useful and fun.
 

Hypercat-Z

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I'm hoping in more specific close interactions between the different couples of characters.
I mean: When for example Snake does a hold and hit move to Fox it has to look different than when he does it to Peach.
 

Big-Cat

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I'm hoping in more specific close interactions between the different couples of characters.
I mean: When for example Snake does a hold and hit move to Fox it has to look different than when he does it to Peach.
That's probably not going to happen outside maybe a few attacks. It's just not practical to have a bunch of tailor made hurt animations that may not matter much in the long run. In the case of pummeling, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference from a gameplay standpoint.
 

Biz_R_0

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I'm going to reintroduce my idea because last time it turned into an edgeguarding debate and nobody even touched on it.

(Cut the first paragraph to avoid the same thing happening, but just to preface this; my suggestion would also include auto-snap edges.)

Although, I do have a problem with the ledges; infinite ledge invincibility. Theoretically, you could just go grab, release, and then immediately re-grab the ledge over and over again once you get the stock lead until the timer runs out. This obviously wouldn't happen in tournaments because of the LGL, but I don't think that TO's should have to manually fix this. My solution? Make it so that 1. you can't just hold up to snap the ledge, you'll have to actually initiate a recovery move (that includes jumps), and 2. the ledge doesn't refresh your recovery moves. This way, you'll have to eventually get back on the stage.
 

Ferio_Kun

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(Cut the first paragraph to avoid the same thing happening, but just to preface this; my suggestion would also include auto-snap edges.)

Although, I do have a problem with the ledges; infinite ledge invincibility. Theoretically, you could just go grab, release, and then immediately re-grab the ledge over and over again once you get the stock lead until the timer runs out. This obviously wouldn't happen in tournaments because of the LGL, but I don't think that TO's should have to manually fix this. My solution? Make it so that 1. you can't just hold up to snap the ledge, you'll have to actually initiate a recovery move (that includes jumps), and 2. the ledge doesn't refresh your recovery moves. This way, you'll have to eventually get back on the stage.
Completely agree. Stalling in smash is just highly annoying. I would rather just see a limit to the amount of times you can grab onto the ledge. (from already on the ledge) 3 fits pretty well I would say.
 

grizby2

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im gonna say this once,
if recovery in brawl is too easy for you, then you're probably fighting someone whos not too well at the game, because no one i know that i play brawl with, will simply let you recover for free.
though SOME characters do have a better time recovering than others.

any who'..

i think shields in sm4sh should have a TAD less durabillity. there are just too many times that i cant believe when a shield should have broken but didn't. ya know?
 
D

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1. Still funner than having to play Melee's Adventure mode over and over again with every character. That said it did feel a bit rushed, and it was definitely over hyped by everyone. Feels more like a hurt feelings kinda of deal. Still there's a lot of potential for this, but it's still better than past Single Player campaigns.
Am I the only one that absolutely LOVED Melee's Adventure mode? I just wish they added more secrets and perhaps made it more character specific. Meaning certain characters only go to to certain universes.

In fact I would like to see this come back with what I mentioned above and branching paths based on actions and decisions as our new "story mode." I ****ing HATED SSE.


2. Clones aren't that big of a deal anymore. Brawl pretty much did away with them, the closest to Melee's standards (which is a story in and of itself) would be Toon Link, but even then the differences between the two are rather large. Street Fighter has 6 different versions of Ryu, stop complaining people.
Still, clones mean a lack of diversity. Why does Falco have to play just like Fox but with higher jumps? Why does Luigi have to have a Tornado move too? Why can't he have the Ground Pound instead? I mean, clones in the sense that they fulfill the same fighting game archetype, but with different properties and moves is fine, a la BB's Relius and Claus. But the Rye/Ken clone gig from the SF series is flat out lame. So much so, that the best Ken iterations have been the ones that were the most differentiated from Ryu.
 

FlareHabanero

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You can't exactly expect Mario and Luigi to radically different considering they are in canon very similar to each other in capabilities. Hell in early installments Luigi was pretty much a palette swap of Mario, before slowing getting more individual capabilities starting with Super Mario Bros. 2.

Lucas and Ness being similar is also justified since they are capable of learning a lot of the same techniques and have similar stats in the games.

Everything else is more debatable.
 

Big-Cat

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Ryu and Ken were originally head swaps and they play nothing alike despite similar specials today.

Mario and Luigi are fine with me as they're as different as Ryu and Ken.

Now with Lucas, like Wolf, they should've tried harder with the specials since their normals are next to nothing like their counterparts.

:phone:
 
D

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Yeah, I agree but they could have a bit more diversity. Ness and Lucas I didn't like. I felt Lucas should have been MUCH more different from Ness, but he really wasn't.

Then again, I don't like Lucas in general so...
 

Biz_R_0

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Wolf's specials are very different from Fox and Falco minus the shine in Fox's case. Lucas just seems like they went "hey, let's take all of Ness' specials and make them worse!"
 
D

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No no, it's not the specials and their aesthetics/effects. It's that they all essentially play more or less the same with little variation. It's really annoying when there really could be a lot more diversity in Smash.

@Kuma

I agree on Ken now. He is largely different, as are Akuma, and Dan and Gouken. However, it's one of the major complaints about SF4 and SF in general. Too many "Shoto-clones." Same for Mortal Kombat (I know.. not the new one). Compare this to other fighters that don't have this, and tell me which looks more appealing/fun.

The one with different palette swaps of the same character, but with different effects and stuff. Or the one with completely off the wall and unique fighting styles and archetypes.

SF and to an even larger extent MK have gone a long way to do away with that clone character image. Smash needs to do the same.
 
D

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You're seriously saying that Wolf plays the same as Fox and Falco?
No, I'm not... Actually if anything, Wolf is somewhat refreshing (in comparison to the other clones). I'm just saying the could have tried harder in making him different. I've already said it in the Roster thread, but I can do without Falco, Wolf can stay though. Just change his FS, and his v+B, and hell even his Blaster for something else.
 

Big-Cat

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Falco just needs some changes here and there. An air B that aims downward, his Up B becomes a Flash Kick, and a third jump are three big changes for him.
 

Hypercat-Z

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Yeah, I agree but they could have a bit more diversity. Ness and Lucas I didn't like. I felt Lucas should have been MUCH more different from Ness, but he really wasn't.
Then again, I don't like Lucas in general so...
I share your feelings bro. If another char of Earthboud had to be included, it should have been him:
 

Biz_R_0

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Yeah, have a character named after **** in there. That'll go over real well.
 
D

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Can you just imagine the epic voice announcer when you select him?

''Poo!'' ..Err smelly..

:phone:
Hahaha, just replace his little percentile icon thing with a pink caca.

It would be hilarious.
"And the Winner IS..... POO!"
 

Hypercat-Z

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Oh well, I suppose in the american version his name would lose a O and become like...
 

kikaru

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Improvements I would like to see:

Meaningful event matches like in Melee.
Target Test catered to each individual character.
Stage quality. (Some stages simply felt like platforms and blocks rather than an intricate battlefield)
Series expansion. (Even if the roster itself won't expand much part of what makes Smash great is the diversity of series and characters)
Upgraded SSE. The cutscenes were AMAZING! The overarching gameplay... not so much. Quality control again.
Stage Creator: This had so much potential but they kinda dropped the ball on this one. Quality improvement once again.
Character Balance: Whether you are a seasoned professional or someone who is completely new to Smash, it doesn't take very long to get a general sense of who is strong and who is weak. Characters like Captain Falcon and Link are completely outclassed by Marth, Metaknight, etc. Let's fix that.
 

Hypercat-Z

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Improvements I would like to see:

Meaningful event matches like in Melee.
Target Test catered to each individual character.
I disagree! The nice thing of target tests avaiable to every character in the stages was they offered multiple solutions, even within the same char.
Bring back "board the platform" and "race to the finish" instead.
I liked the cutscenes too, but they might have a more than aestethic role if this time the choices do influence the path of the story, rather than just who is under the control of the player.
 
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