Improvements I'd like to see in SSB4.

[looprider]

Hey, guys, first time posting here.

I wrote a lengthy post (2500 odd words) about the flaws that I perceive with Brawl, how it relates to Melee, and what I'd like to see changed in the sequel.

If you want to read through it, it's at http://looprider.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/super-smash-brothers-room-for-improvement/

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by linking my blog, sorry if I did. At least it's all on topic!

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Well, I'd like if they introduce backward moves.
Normally Attack + Left and Attack + Right produce the same move, but what if they produce different moves following which direction the character is facing?
More complicated or more strategic?

 

[looprider]

I think ultimately they'd complicate the game. I reckon the action is just too fast-paced for backwards moves, particularly when you're twisting in the air, and it would certainly reduce the level of accessibility of the game for newer players, which I'm sure is something Nintendo would be keen to avoid.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I was with you until you complained about clones. Everything else was good though.

 

[looprider]

I was with you until you complained about clones.

Man, you crazy.

 

[Vkrm]

Melee did the same thing with clones and you love that game so damn much. Just kidding, melly2gud.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Man, you crazy.

Smash really doesn't have a problem with clones. Most of the characters who people label as clones actually have a lot to seperate them from the characters they "copy", especially once you look past their specials. Maybe it's because I'm a Toon Link main, but I'd hate to see all of the clones be scrapped or given new moves just for the sake of diversity.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I loved some points (though clones I'm 50/50, I don't still like the way they made more Space Animals but still we get alternative playstyles.)

On 4th point, sorry but I think I might disagree with this a lot.

While I also would love to see more diverse cast, (seriously, look at my signatures) that's not how I think Smash Bros would work to most of the people. Smash Bros of course caters to the hardcore fans but there's also the more bigger and casual audience. Here's some reasons why I think some characters fans wished for didn't make it:

- They simply aren't as recognizable or important to Nintendo as much as the playable cast and thus, doesn't bring that much of a wow to the roster as the current roster. Isn't the roster meant to bring hype to most of the crowd instead only the hardcore Nintendo-fans?
I mean, we have characters Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit (well he was requested popularly, right?) Ike and even that damn badass MOFO Charizard we all loved and respected when we were young! AND HOLY MOLEY SONIC-SONIC-SONIC!!!!


I think if you saw Lyndis/Isaac/Dark Samus/Tom Nook featured, few or some might go "yay!", but if one saw Wario/Diddy Kong/MetaKnight/Sonic, EVERYONE WOULD GO YAY.

And I bet the developers go for the latter. They want to celebrate Nintendo's BEST. And there's reason why some games are more popular than others. Cult classics get still some love but they aren't in the same spot as the main cast, (though there's some expections... ICE CLIMBERS ****kk)

(Okay, I'm not saying your character wishes suck because they don't "garner much audience interest", but Smash Bros sells on mostly of having a cast of recognisable characters and FEW cult classics/fan favourites to cater the hardcore audience. Depends.

Of course I know that clones would've been good for switched for some more cult favourites or more good characters but we'd thus have even smaller roster (which might be for good, or for bad, depending on people. Letting go Falco and Ganondorf wouldn't be easy, and luigifying or giving them more original movesets would still take development time.)

But yet again, there could've been many reasons why the fan favourites we wanted didn't make it (or just Sakurai's "AC and Pikmin > C-List Nintendo Series we all love more than Nintendo and all their subsidiaries themselves) I think there's just many. But one thing's sure: Flagship franchises will always take 70% of the roster rather 50% of both flagship and cult. And if anything, we never see other characters than the main characters from the series themselves. (Yeah there's been debated that "Lucario's being Flavour Of The Month"
but still, Brawl has so far brought more main characters from the series, and I don't see how that'll change in SSB4.

Kinda reflects now on my current mindset that we might see more probability on Ridley, King K.Rool, whoever is most requested 5th Gen Mon or Trainer, Dixie and Palutena being one of the new characters because they fill in existing franchises and are highly requested. We might just get Saki, Little Mac, Shulk and Isaac as the new franchises representators, if we're even lucky to see all four. Also either Takamaru or Mach Rider as new retros.

Rest again, I dunno. I though bet they won't be included because they aren't as wow-factoring or don't have enough support to be in the roster because they don't make the roster look better or more exciting to try, expect for Nintendo-hardcories: still haven't played much as Ice Climbers.

 

[looprider]

But one thing's sure: Flagship franchises will always take 70% of the roster rather 50% of both flagship and cult. And if anything, we never see other characters than the main characters from the series themselves. (Yeah there's been debated that "Lucario's being Flavour Of The Month"
but still, Brawl has so far brought more main characters from the series, and I don't see how that'll change in SSB4.

I'm not really expecting Nintendo to change tack and make their roster more diverse, I'd just like it if they did. There's a ****load of Pokémon in Brawl because kids like Pokémon, and there's a ****load of Star Fox characters because they're easy to churn out, being clones of one another. I'd just like to see Nintendo maybe switch out the odd Fire Emblem, or Earthbound character and stick in an Advance Wars or Drill Dozer character instead. I mean, none of these franchises are particularly well known, so why not balance out the obscurity a little and potentially interest some more fans with the wider spread of cast?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm not really expecting Nintendo to change tack and make their roster more diverse, I'd just like it if they did. There's a ****load of Pokémon in Brawl because kids like Pokémon, and there's a ****load of Star Fox characters because they're easy to churn out, being clones of one another. I'd just like to see Nintendo maybe switch out the odd Fire Emblem, or Earthbound character and stick in an Advance Wars or Drill Dozer character instead. I mean, none of these franchises are particularly well known, so why not balance out the obscurity a little and potentially interest some more fans with the wider spread of cast?

Because there wouldn't be much successful benefit from them to be in the roster. Sure, they might be interesting in there and cater to moderate or even minor fanbase, but wider casual audience (the one Sakurai's solely targeting Smash Bros for) won't be remembering them much aside from being Smash Bros. (Looking at Roy and Ice Climbers). Besides it would mean more resources to look upon and give time to, which might become problematic if the development time's going busy or being assigned to some other aspect of the game.
Also, how many people know about Advance Wars rather than Mario, or even Fire Emblem? Same for Drill Dozer- who'd know about Jill rather thank say, Kid Icarus? I mean Ness was already total oddball to European folk like me before... (Drill Dozer was never released at Europe)

I mean, we don't want another Ice Climber/Mr.Game & Watch-issue to happen- The more roster has characters that most of the people aren't very familiar with, the more roster seems alienating to wider casual cast, which reduces the effectiveness of the most influencing and important aspect of Smash Bros: The game thus wouldn't feel very marketable and accessible for casual cast that Sakurai's going for and the game might become a sleeper hit that is a cult classic among the hardcore Nintendo-fans.
(Also the fact that clones are easier to make.)

Lucas made it in since he was being planned on SSB after Ness and to replace him even. (Might explain why he's a clone of Ness). Marth again he's the poster boy of FE and Ike was Intelligent System's suggestion since Sakurai had no idea who to include as a new FE-rep. Ike wasn't though alienating (though of course Lyn's fans might've been sore)

Also I hope you're not kidding when saying Fire Emblem and Earthbound aren't "particularly well-known".

 

[looprider]

Because there wouldn't be much successful benefit from them to be in the roster. Sure, they might be interesting in there and cater to moderate or even minor fanbase, but wider casual audience (the one Sakurai's solely targeting Smash Bros for) won't be remembering them much aside from being Smash Bros. (Looking at Roy and Ice Climbers). Besides it would mean more resources to look upon and give time to, which might become problematic if the development time's going busy or being assigned to some other aspect of the game.
Also, how many people know about Advance Wars rather than Mario, or even Fire Emblem? Same for Drill Dozer- who'd know about Jill rather thank say, Kid Icarus? I mean Ness was already total oddball to European folk like me before... (Drill Dozer was never released at Europe)

I mean, we don't want another Ice Climber/Mr.Game & Watch-issue to happen- The more roster has characters that most of the people aren't very familiar with, the more roster seems alienating to wider casual cast, which reduces the effectiveness of the most influencing and important aspect of Smash Bros: The game thus wouldn't feel very marketable and accessible for casual cast that Sakurai's going for and the game might become a sleeper hit that is a cult classic among the hardcore Nintendo-fans.
(Also the fact that clones are easier to make.)

Lucas made it in since he was being planned on SSB after Ness and to replace him even. (Might explain why he's a clone of Ness). Marth again he's the poster boy of FE and Ike was Intelligent System's suggestion since Sakurai had no idea who to include as a new FE-rep. Ike wasn't though alienating (though of course Lyn's fans might've been sore)

Also I hope you're not kidding when saying Fire Emblem and Earthbound aren't "particularly well-known".

No, no, I totally understand why there are large amounts of flagship franchise characters in Brawl, and I certainly don't expect it to change in the sequel, and I'm aware of the lack of resources the devs have for implementing any of the things I'd like to see. Most of the points I make are the kind of daydreaming thoughts that take place in a land that caters to the hardcore gamer, produced by developers with blank cheques and infinite time.

The point I'm making is that it'd be nice if the number of characters from the obscure franchises was spread out a bit. Earthbound has a cult following, but the average Joe on the street won't have heard of it in his life. Likewise for Fire Emblem. So, instead of having 2 characters from Earthbound, why not 1 from Earthbound and another from, say, Advance Wars? Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are basically the same in terms of popularity and recognition, with Days of Ruin and Shadow Dragon each pulling in just under 0.6 million sales globally. Earthbound on the other hand isn't even around on the Virtual Console, Mother 3 didn't get out of Japan, save for the efforts of a fan translation, but still has decent recognition because of its cult status. Drill Dozer, however, is nigh-invisible, but hey, if you've got a Fire Emblem character in there already, why not stick Jill in, instead of a second FE character? It's hardly going to harm sales, nobody's gonna be "Nope, ain't buyin' this, not without another Marth or Roy". If anything, the greater spread of franchises might interest the odd gamer in a very specific section of market, assuming the unlikely in that they're not already buying it.

 

[SmashShadow]

I'm so sick of the "clone argument", especially in Brawl's case. Have we not all played Melee. That is where the true clones lie! Brawl had 1 clone(Toon Link) and some semi clones(Ganon, Luigi, Lucas, Falco) and even these have detached themselves much from their Melee clone status in the transition between these 2 games.

Wolf isn't even a semi-clone in my opinion when you look at the fact that only 6 of the moves in his moveset are the same(specials, back aerial and FS)and even so, his specials work much differently than Fox's/Falco's versions. Not to mention that back aerial is used by 1/3 the roster being just a back kick. And many of the people just happen to be blind when it comes to Lucas and flat out label him a clone even though more than half his moves are original only to him.

Sure, I'd like to see these characters become even more unique but it infuriates me when people go straight for the "clone call" and actually fail to acknowledge that they actually have several unique moves.

 

[looprider]

I'm so sick of the "clone argument", especially in Brawl's case. Have we not all played Melee. That is where the true clones lie! Brawl had 1 clone(Toon Link) and some semi clones(Ganon, Luigi, Lucas, Falco) and even these have detached themselves much from their Melee clone status in the transition between these 2 games.

Wolf isn't even a semi-clone in my opinion when you look at the fact that only 6 of the moves in his moveset are the same(specials, back aerial and FS)and even so, his specials work much differently than Fox's/Falco's versions. Not to mention that back aerial is used by 1/3 the roster being just a back kick. And many of the people just happen to be blind when it comes to Lucas and flat out label him a clone even though more than half his moves are original only to him.

Sure, I'd like to see these characters become even more unique but it infuriates me when people go straight for the "clone call" and actually fail to acknowledge that they actually have several unique moves.

Yeah, you're totally right. Having gone back to play Brawl yesterday with some friends, we tested out all the normal moves of the various clones, and they were all fairly different.

Guess I got egg on my face now, innit. I'd still like to see them change the specials though - a slightly different laser shot is a pretty lame way to try and make a character different.

 

[Vintage Creep]

That's what I think.

1. Subspace Emissary. Let's start by saying that if you prefered to do the adventure mode in Melee like 26 times (to get all trophies) instead of doing the Subspace Emissary, it's your problem. No seriously I know that SE could have been a lot better, but it's one of the best improvement from Melee. The cutscenes were outstanding in any way, from the graphics to the "script". Not all the enemies were inspired, by the "catch 'em all" feature was funny. The biggest problem was the path choices that resulted only in a character swap in the cutscenes. Complaining about the story itself, in a brawler game, sorry but it's kinda stupid.

2. Clone characters. I agree 50/50. Let's start by saying that Wolf and Falco are not clones. Are only very similar but they play completely different and that's a fact. The "clone" problem concers only a few characters, in particular Ganondorf. He has no reason at all to share a similar moveset with Captain Falcon, and that needs to be fixed. If the two Link play similar, that's really not a big problem for me.

3. Alternate costumes. Nothing to say here, I completely agree. Color swaps are boring as ****.

4. Roster. I can agree somewhat, but that's something which gets fixed slowly with every new installment of the series.

5. Level design. I disagree. The stages in Brawl were all very well done. Some of them like 75m and Mario Bros. were a mess for competitive battles, but they're all amazing to play just for fun. Delfino Plaza and Distant Planet for example, or Pokémon Stadium 2 and WarioWare. How can you say they're simply "random floating platformes with a backstage"? Especially when Melee was filled with that (Fountain Of Dreams, the two Mushroom Kingdom, Brinstar Depths, Icicle Mountain...).

6. Ledge grapping. True. It comes with all the "casual party feel" of the game, which I don't hate as much, but this is undeniable.

7. Lack of clarity. Naaah, your problem.

8. Smash balls. Nobody can defend smash balls, so, yeah.

 

[looprider]

5. Level design. I disagree. The stages in Brawl were all very well done. Some of them like 75m and Mario Bros. were a mess for competitive battles, but they're all amazing to play just for fun. Delfino Plaza and Distant Planet for example, or Pokémon Stadium 2 and WarioWare. How can you say they're simply "random floating platformes with a backstage"? Especially when Melee was filled with that (Fountain Of Dreams, the two Mushroom Kingdom, Brinstar Depths, Icicle Mountain...).

Hey, I never said every stage in Brawl sucked, and the ones you've mentioned there are all stages I really like, with maybe the exception of Distant Planet.

-Fountain of Dreams was just a floating platform stage, yeah, no objections there.
-Brinstar Depths was very irregularly shaped, with little crevices and outlying platforms, and it spun around the whole time, so I'd disagree with the assertion that it's just a random floating platform with a backdrop.
-The Mushroom Kingdom levels are rooted convincingly within their universe in that, yeah they're floating platforms, but that's what they looked like in their original incarnation. It feels like you're fighting within levels from those games, rather than a generic stage with a themed background. And there's other mechanics in play to keep them interesting - destructible blocks, item boxes, pulley platforms, moving logs, magic carpets, Birdo, etc. However, I can definitely see as to why some people would disagree with me here.
-Icicle Mountain totally sucked, although I guess it stayed faithful to the game it hailed from.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I liked FoD. What Brawl needed, in terms of stages, was a balance between more normal stages, like FoD and Battlefield, and crazy gimmicky stages like New Pork and WarioWare. As well as a hazards switch.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

-Icicle Mountain totally sucked, although I guess it stayed faithful to the game it hailed from.

It sure did, let's make a wacky scrolling stage which all get tired to play on. (-=30-)

 

[---]

1. Still funner than having to play Melee's Adventure mode over and over again with every character. That said it did feel a bit rushed, and it was definitely over hyped by everyone. Feels more like a hurt feelings kinda of deal. Still there's a lot of potential for this, but it's still better than past Single Player campaigns.

2. Clones aren't that big of a deal anymore. Brawl pretty much did away with them, the closest to Melee's standards (which is a story in and of itself) would be Toon Link, but even then the differences between the two are rather large. Street Fighter has 6 different versions of Ryu, stop complaining people.

3. Not really an improvement that needs to be made, but it's something that could be fun to see.

4. Would be nice to see Sakurai start being more liberal in his character choices, probably won't happen though. Is also a little bit overrated by everyone as well, a lot of the liberal choices are often way too out there or just won't work well in Smash. Really depends on how far you dig into the Sakurai interviews if you're currently disagreeing with me on this.

5. The level design was fine for the most part, there was definitely a few dumb choices made though. Either way every game in the Smash series has problems like that not just Brawl.

6. Meh, I like this way. It was annoying in Melee to deal with, especially with the gravity settings in place. I doubt it'll change either since we now have characters like Ivysaur, ZSS, and Olimar.

7. I do agree, graphics don't make the game. But I'm positive they won't be an issue that Nintendo will run into (especially considering they're still catching up with other systems in that department).

8. Meh, just like the Red/Blue Turtle Shells in Mario Kart, just turn them off if you don't like them. The moves themselves will change a whole lot just like every character's moveset does in the transition to a new game in the series. Just be glad it's an item unlike what everyone thought when the original trailer came out.

 

[looprider]

6. Meh, I like this way. It was annoying in Melee to deal with, especially with the gravity settings in place. I doubt it'll change either since we now have characters like Ivysaur, ZSS, and Olimar.

CHARLATAN! Nah, to be fair, I do see what you mean. Perhaps it was for the best, although I do miss those nail biting moments.



PS: I too like Fountain of Dreams, despite my complaints of floating platform stages.

 

[Vkrm]

Gravity settings? What are those? I actually prefer melee's adventure mode to SSE. SSE is a real commitment, it can't take hours to get through. You'd think that'd be enough time to tell a good story, but no. They ought to keep it short and sweet.

 

[---]

Beats me what gravity is, ask all the competitive fans what they mean by the gameplay being floaty first. Either way it's tough to explain. I myself just like the feel of it more and getting back to the ledge feels less like I'm fighting the game half the time and more of it being my own mistake instead.

The SSE had obvious problems, but hey one does have to admire the ambition and goal that they had with it. Same idea I would say holds true for a lot of the changes Brawl made. 64 couldn't do much given the budget, and Melee had to keep things simple given the development time. Smash 4 should obviously be the final result of all these testing grounds.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i trust sakurai with this one. the announcements so far make me think hes focusing on the competitive community this time. honestly i hope for this something different. im happy with brawl now so if 4 is bad i wont be entirely disappointed. i doubt it'll be bad tho. so i think improvements are not needed. just changes.

 

[Vkrm]

I dont trust sakurai. He's a business man first and foremost. He targets the biggest audience, watering down quality in a bid to make the maximum amount of $$$. Smash 4 wont sell as well as brawl because now it'll be impossible to blindside smash fans. After brawl we know better then to trust him and just buy the game on faith. Brawl has taught us that sakurai is not the game wizard we thought, he can make mistakes, brawl for instance.

Maybe if the brawl characters were as fun as melee ones, I'd like SSE. Let me boot up PM to see.

 

[---]

I trust Sakurai. There's not one game he's made that hasn't been fun for everyone, has catered to one specific audience, or has been hard to truly pick up and play. He takes his time with each game asking for more time when he doesn't think it's ready and if he can't, he works overtime so it can meet his and our high standards. Smash 4 will be the best selling in the series because there are more Smash fans than ever thanks to the latest game in the series; he'll finally perfect the Smash formula based off of the mistakes he made with Melee and Brawl. He even has a very experienced team of developers working under him this time as well who share the same ideals. After previous games he's made since he first started developing at the age of 19, he's shown he's one of the few developers you can trust to make a fun to play game that's high in quality.

I can't even imagine how much fun his next game will be after going back and playing his past titles.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I trust Sakurai. There's not one game he's made that hasn't been fun for everyone, has catered to one specific audience, or has been hard to truly pick up and play. He takes his time with each game asking for more time when he doesn't think it's ready and if he can't, he works overtime so it can meet his and our high standards. Smash 4 will be the best selling in the series because there are more Smash fans than ever thanks to the latest game in the series; he'll finally perfect the Smash formula based off of the mistakes he made with Melee and Brawl. He even has a very experienced team of developers working under him this time as well who share the same ideals. After previous games he's made since he first started developing at the age of 19, he's shown he's one of the few developers you can trust to make a fun to play game that's high in quality.

I can't even imagine how much fun his next game will be after going back and playing his past titles.

TripleHyper, you deserved all the applauds and cheers around here and also a medal for this great and truthful post. I hope you'll be right at the end.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I trust Sakurai. There's not one game he's made that hasn't been fun for everyone, has catered to one specific audience, or has been hard to truly pick up and play. He takes his time with each game asking for more time when he doesn't think it's ready and if he can't, he works overtime so it can meet his and our high standards. Smash 4 will be the best selling in the series because there are more Smash fans than ever thanks to the latest game in the series; he'll finally perfect the Smash formula based off of the mistakes he made with Melee and Brawl. He even has a very experienced team of developers working under him this time as well who share the same ideals. After previous games he's made since he first started developing at the age of 19, he's shown he's one of the few developers you can trust to make a fun to play game that's high in quality.

I can't even imagine how much fun his next game will be after going back and playing his past titles.

Brawl wasn't fun for everyone.

But really, I get the feeling he's not going to repeat the mistakes made during Brawl's development. He's only messed up once; for now, I'm willing to give him a second chance.

 

[---]

TripleHyper, you deserved all the applauds and cheers around here and also a medal for this great and truthful post. I hope you'll be right at the end.

Brawl wasn't fun for everyone.

But really, I get the feeling he's not going to repeat the mistakes made during Brawl's development. He's only messed up once; for now, I'm willing to give him a second chance.

No one's perfect, nor am I trying to make Sakurai out to be. There have been problems in all of his games ("cough...Kirby's Air Ride...cough"), and he truly does put a lot of effort into his games literally (anyone remember the Melee's development?). I'm just tried of all the negative comments around here in general.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Lol c'mon if you don't have fun with Brawl it's your problem. Messed up? It's still the best multiplayer game of the generation...

 

[Youngster Joey]

im not looking for a fight here.. brawl is good. he just tried to make it not competitive. this time hes focusing on evening it out. characters and new movesets for pretty much a new game. the wii u probably wont sell too well in general since its a new system and i personally dont want a new system yet but i still like the ideas so far

 

[Robert of Normandy]

[Brawl is] still the best multiplayer game of the generation...

Only once you download Brawl+, Brawl-, or Project M.

In all seriousness, to each their own. I don't care for it, but if you liked Brawl, great for you.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Only once you download Brawl+, Brawl-, or Project M.

In all seriousness, to each their own. I don't care for it, but if you liked Brawl, great for you.

Yeah OK but a little bit of objectivity...
I didn't like Bayonetta at all but I have no problem admitting that is one of the best hack n' slash of the generation...
All the people who think that Brawl sucks seem like butthurt Melee-fanboys to me.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

What about poles?
Like walls, they can be used to shield from firballs or to make enemies bounce, but, by grabbing them, they can also be use to climb up (see Sonic Heroes), slide down (see Super Mario Bros.) or simply pass by them with a kick on the other side.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What about poles?
Like walls, they can be used to shield from firballs or to make enemies bounce, but, by grabbing them, they can also be use to climb up (see Sonic Heroes), slide down (see Super Mario Bros.) or simply pass by them with a kick on the other side.

I don't think SSB needs another stage gimmick. Even is this is introduced, they'll probably end up just like ladders in Brawl.

 

[Big-Cat]

Beats me what gravity is, ask all the competitive fans what they mean by the gameplay being floaty first. Either way it's tough to explain. I myself just like the feel of it more and getting back to the ledge feels less like I'm fighting the game half the time and more of it being my own mistake instead.

Floaty simply means that you're in the air much longer than in comparison to the previous. Case in point, Samus in Brawl takes longer to land than in Melee for some odd reason.

Floaty can be good depending on the game and character, but for most people, it slowed the pace of the game considerably.

I dont trust sakurai. He's a business man first and foremost. He targets the biggest audience, watering down quality in a bid to make the maximum amount of $$$. Smash 4 wont sell as well as brawl because now it'll be impossible to blindside smash fans. After brawl we know better then to trust him and just buy the game on faith. Brawl has taught us that sakurai is not the game wizard we thought, he can make mistakes, brawl for instance.

Maybe if the brawl characters were as fun as melee ones, I'd like SSE. Let me boot up PM to see.

I wouldn't say it was entirely money based. The main problems lie in his ideology that is inconsistent with reality. Case in point, trying to please everyone is something that's simply impossible and that's something he tried to accomplish that with Brawl.

Another, minor one, is that he was taking fighting games at face value and not the meaning behind some things. Like, it's implied that he didn't know that trial mode combos in fighting games are mostly execution tests. However, he's aware that there is an ad libbed element to fighting games. Because of this warped perception of things, we got some of the issues in Smash series.

I trust Sakurai. There's not one game he's made that hasn't been fun for everyone, has catered to one specific audience, or has been hard to truly pick up and play. He takes his time with each game asking for more time when he doesn't think it's ready and if he can't, he works overtime so it can meet his and our high standards. Smash 4 will be the best selling in the series because there are more Smash fans than ever thanks to the latest game in the series; he'll finally perfect the Smash formula based off of the mistakes he made with Melee and Brawl. He even has a very experienced team of developers working under him this time as well who share the same ideals. After previous games he's made since he first started developing at the age of 19, he's shown he's one of the few developers you can trust to make a fun to play game that's high in quality.

I can't even imagine how much fun his next game will be after going back and playing his past titles.

Him having Namco on board is probably the best thing that could've happened. As such, I'm willing to put my faith in Sakurai this time as he actually has an experienced team on board.

I just don't want him to force certain things like he did with Uprising. The one beef I had with that game was that if you died, you're forced to have the difficulty lowered instead of it being provided as an option.

Lol c'mon if you don't have fun with Brawl it's your problem. Messed up? It's still the best multiplayer game of the generation...

I beg to differ. In my opinion, the game is really only good when there's nothing else to compare it to.

 

[DakotaBonez]

What made the stages so hype in smash 64 and melee was that you were fighting on actual terrain instead of floating platforms like in a few of the brawl stages. But many brawl stages were more than just floating platforms. Like Distant Planet, Pirate Ship, Glacier, the Mario Kart stage, just to name a few. And the ones that were just floating platforms offered their own unique gameplay twist. Like how on Lylat Cruise the stage tilts left and right, and on Delfino Plaza the position and shape of the platforms changes every time they pick you up. I think it just seems like there was alot of bad stages because there was just alot of stages in general. However the stages in melee that you fought on were connected to the background and had more depth than the ones in brawl. Distant Planet offered an organic terrain but the still background that didnt connect with the stage made it feel like it was just floating platforms.

TLDR: Make stage connect to background

Delfino Plaza is a good example. Yaknow when yer not flying around on the magic platforms.

 

[SmashShadow]

I don't think SSB needs another stage gimmick. Even is this is introduced, they'll probably end up just like ladders in Brawl.

Poles>Ladders
Ladders have an annoying sound when you climb them.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Poles>Ladders
Ladders have an annoying sound when you climb them.

I meant they would end up forgotten and unused. If you want to really innovate with stage design, you should experiment with platform layout, not add more useless gimmicks.

 

[---]

Floaty simply means that you're in the air much longer than in comparison to the previous. Case in point, Samus in Brawl takes longer to land than in Melee for some odd reason.

Floaty can be good depending on the game and character, but for most people, it slowed the pace of the game considerably.

I guess. I do wonder though if Sakurai changed it on purpose, most casual players can't tell the difference.

The pace is fine for me, so to one's own. Still I do want to see them do something difference and not just make Melee or Brawl 2.0.

Spoiler

64 2.0?

Him having Namco on board is probably the best thing that could've happened. As such, I'm willing to put my faith in Sakurai this time as he actually has an experienced team on board.

I just don't want him to force certain things like he did with Uprising. The one beef I had with that game was that if you died, you're forced to have the difficulty lowered instead of it being provided as an option.

Agreed, especially since Namco has shown to have similar ideas in place but are coming from a different perspective (competitive), so hopefully a middle will finally be met. Although didn't we all put our faith into Sakurai with Brawl? (Certainly would explain all the hurt feelings.) So haven't we technically never lost faith? lol

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think SSB needs another stage gimmick. Even is this is introduced, they'll probably end up just like ladders in Brawl.

We definitely don't need gimmicks. Though, what should be looked into are implementing features that have a strategical value to them.

Things like making it where walls are indestructible or require them to be broken by the opponent's impact would make it where the stage plays more of a role in the fight without being a hazard. You could do the same thing with floors. Just imagine Skyworld where they can't be broken by attacks but by landing your opponent into the ground.

You could go further and include things like balconies, a wall on only one side, a partial sky opening, etc. This would also allow them to integrate actual locations even better.

I guess. I do wonder though if Sakurai changed it on purpose, most casual players can't tell the difference.

The pace is fine for me, so to one's own. Still I do want to see them do something difference and not just make Melee or Brawl 2.0.

Spoiler

64 2.0?

Casual players may not be able to play the difference because they did not play the game as often as the competitive and the semi-serious. It's like having to change tempo for some performance of a song all of a sudden. Muscle memory can be a pain in these kind of things.

That being said, I know some casual players that found it too floaty to enjoy.

Agreed, especially since Namco has shown to have similar ideas in place but are coming from a different perspective (competitive), so hopefully a middle will finally be met. Although didn't we all put our faith into Sakurai with Brawl? (Certainly would explain all the hurt feelings.) So haven't we technically never lost faith? lol

Having a strong Tales and Tekken influence should help greatly in the combat department which has been an issue with me, as you know

The lost faith is more cautious optimism than anything else. A lot of us felt he gave the finger to veteran players while not giving them anything else in return to explore.

 

[looprider]

You could go further and include things like balconies, a wall on only one side, a partial sky opening, etc. This would also allow them to integrate actual locations even better.

I dig the sound of that somethin' fierce.