***IMPORTANT DISCOVERY*** Spammed attacks greatly diminish in knockback!

[Aaryk]

This brings up another question in my head.
If someone has one combo that they use over and over, and the combo gets nerfed over the course of the match, couldn't that in theory increase the effectiveness of the combo?

Think about it. If knockback is decreased from the moves, this would allow for a tighter game and quite possibly a stupidly long juggle or shffl combo.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think a more appropriate name would be "Ryoko's Law of Paying Attention to Basic Game Mechanics"

QFT.

Wow. This is definitely not an inconsequential find.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Luigi_Factor]

Nothing new.

this was present in Melee. using the same attack over and over, reduced the damage it dealt and a minor amount of the KO power as well.

Example, use peach vs fox a non moving fox... walk up to him and downsmash, repeat times 5. notice its not the same amount of damage as it was the first time, or the 2nd.

 

[Losnar]

Nothing new but it looks like it has a much greater effect in Brawl.

I love this aspect of the game! Makes for great variation.

Tell me, this doesn't affect B button moves, right?

And does it reset when you die?

 

[Frames]

Good stuff, Ryoko.

This is definetely going to affect how we do things in brawl. Combos will now require strategy instead of simple spam tactics.

 

[Zarckoh]

Nice find, this will make more interesting battles with different attacks.

 

[kingz]

Nothing new.

this was present in Melee. using the same attack over and over, reduced the damage it dealt and a minor amount of the KO power as well.

Example, use peach vs fox a non moving fox... walk up to him and downsmash, repeat times 5. notice its not the same amount of damage as it was the first time, or the 2nd.

It supposedly effects knockback aswell now..

It's not hard to understand...

 

[Master Chibi]

Hey Ryoko, how's it been guy?

Good find on the discovery!

Let's just not feel the need to name it after you though, we can come up with a universal term that would suit it better.

:3

 

[RedrappeR]

READ THE FULL POST!!!
You look DUMB, when you post **** like "This same exact thing was in melee", when in the FIRST FECKING POST it says "It has a greater effect, and different ramifications." If you still want to argue at that point, that's fine. But posting without reading is IDIOTIC.

Sorry. This happens in EVERY thread when someone posts something, where the OP gets ignored by the general populas(sp?) about 3 pages in.

 

[S_B]

It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.

Think about how far a SSBB player can take their game: mid-game, a player can be tweaking their moveset. Since there are advantages to both spamming a move and not using it at all now, you can literally be customizing your character on the fly in terms of move potency.

No other fighting game has this depth. You typically just memorize moves and use them at the appropriate time. In SSBB, you'll have to keep mental tabs on which of your moves you've used and landed and where their appropriate knockback ability should now be.

This is, of course, if this new system is all that it's cracked up to be. We could still be mistaken in terms of its relevance, but it sounds to me like this is officially the deepest fighting game ever, unless there's another fighting game that factors fatigue into movesets on the fly.

 

[Anomilus]

I hate posts where somebody feel cursing and screaming and huge text is going to actually make things better. It just makes people look pathetically immature and spastically hot-tempered. Seriously.

And thank you kingz for responding in a much more level headed fashion.

And no I don't care that everybody and there mothers tend to say silly things. Reacting in a silly way is no better.

Anyhoo, had I felt I had any say in the matter, I probably would have commented on the idea that having weaker knockback would greatly increase the requirement for attack variety. But eh, I didn't say it, so too bad for me. =/

 

[MechanisMs]

Very interesting find, and great for me as a luigi mainer since Luigi's aerial repetoire is diverse and shiftable on the fly...

i'm thinking, chop, nair, chop, nair, bair, bair, chop *hopefully for a KO* :]

&but very bad for oldschool melee samus style play (which i really hated playing against)*

 

[Miller]

I noticed this too, very good find, Im backing this up with my full support

 

[paralasalud]

It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.

wasn't this established with melee?

 

[Bacon Man11]

Hmmm.. this discovery seems very important.

That is all.

 

[Inui]

Excellent find, Dave.

 

[sv3]

It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.

I lol'd at that thought as well.

 

[RedrappeR]

I hate posts where somebody feel cursing and screaming and huge text is going to actually make things better. It just makes people look pathetically immature and spastically hot-tempered. Seriously.

And thank you kingz for responding in a much more level headed fashion.

And no I don't care that everybody and there mothers tend to say silly things. Reacting in a silly way is no better.

Anyhoo, had I felt I had any say in the matter, I probably would have commented on the idea that having weaker knockback would greatly increase the requirement for attack variety. But eh, I didn't say it, so too bad for me. =/

I'm posting in big letters to get attention. As for the cursing, It's kind of my natural tone.

And I'm not angry. I'm trying to tell them to READ THE POST. BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MUCH SMARTER FOR THEM TO DO SO THAN JUST BABBLING ON LIKE IDIOTS WITHOUT A HINT OF WHAT'S GOING ON!

That's why.

 

[RedrappeR]

It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.

Think about how far a SSBB player can take their game: mid-game, a player can be tweaking their moveset. Since there are advantages to both spamming a move and not using it at all now, you can literally be customizing your character on the fly in terms of move potency.

No other fighting game has this depth. You typically just memorize moves and use them at the appropriate time. In SSBB, you'll have to keep mental tabs on which of your moves you've used and landed and where their appropriate knockback ability should now be.

This is, of course, if this new system is all that it's cracked up to be. We could still be mistaken in terms of its relevance, but it sounds to me like this is officially the deepest fighting game ever, unless there's another fighting game that factors fatigue into movesets on the fly.

Its at this point I stop you. Street Fighter is not just a game where you memorize move sets and "insert move here" mechanics. It's much deeper than that. What' your basically describing about SSBB is exactly how 3rd Strike is played. You have to keep tabs on every move you do, and know which ones have a better chance of hitting, and which ones can faint and fool your opponent... and a lot of other things.


SSBB will be deep, but don't go knocking on Street Fighter now.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Hey, how about we just refer to this game mechanic as "Damage Scaling" like in Melty Blood? After all, it follows a similar principle.

Or perhaps "Power scaling" for a more Brawl-oriented name?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Hey, how about we just refer to this game mechanic as "Damage Scaling" like in Melty Blood? After all, it follows a similar principle.

Or perhaps "Power scaling" for a more Brawl-oriented name?

PS or DS for short. For example:

"If you use Ike's Bair repeatedly, the move's DS will bring the KO power down and it will only be useful as a combo move to set up for his other KO moves."

 

[Libomasus]

Its at this point I stop you. Street Fighter is not just a game where you memorize move sets and "insert move here" mechanics. It's much deeper than that. What' your basically describing about SSBB is exactly how 3rd Strike is played. You have to keep tabs on every move you do, and know which ones have a better chance of hitting, and which ones can faint and fool your opponent... and a lot of other things.


SSBB will be deep, but don't go knocking on Street Fighter now.

As a Third Strike player, I agree with this. I think part of the reason I like smash so much though is that its not as tech-reliant. Most of these things come natural, "intuitive" as Mookie puts it. Thats not to say it doesn't have depth, its just less stressful is all.

So why isn't anybody testing this anyways? Just spam some up-tilts and see what you can combo right? I'll be trying this when I get the game tomorrow, If I'm lucky enough for it to ship on time that is.

 

[Kurizu208]

mmm... ryoko... jk great post and thread!

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I've seen a Sheik player combo with Sheik's Ftilt something like 8 times in a row with DI. That's much more than you could normally do in Melee. Could this be the reason?

 

[Megasabin]

Hey guys. Can someone answer this for me:

A couple of people have stated that this mechanic was already in SSBM. Is it more pronounced now or something? Does it have a larger effect? Why is it such a big deal when it already existed?

Thanks

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Man, that's great news for the heavier power characters. Because one big hit is typically all they need it doesn't hurt them all that much.

 

[RedrappeR]

Megasbin: Read first post.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Nothing new.

this was present in Melee. using the same attack over and over, reduced the damage it dealt and a minor amount of the KO power as well.

Example, use peach vs fox a non moving fox... walk up to him and downsmash, repeat times 5. notice its not the same amount of damage as it was the first time, or the 2nd.

Read the entirety of the FIRST POST. I've no patience for more of this idiocy.

 

[Robling]

This is crucial. Great find!

 

[Ripped]

Interesting, this is going to really affect the way a character with a limited amount of kill moves plays, its going to be fun watching new strategies developed by the players and how they play based on this find.

 

[Zek]

Why don't we have any concrete information on this yet? It's so easy to test, just go into training mode and hit somebody from the center of final destination with the same attack multiple times in a row. We need to know how drastic the knockback reduction is each time, and how long the effect lasts. If this is really major enough that it will ruin your killing blows if you use them too early, and can lead to easier combos with weaker moves, it could lead to some pretty incredible depth.

 

[Master Chibi]

It's official: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood...all of them won't have anywhere near the depth that a competitive game of SSBB does.

Why is there even a need to bring these other games up?

Come on now, SF, GG, and MB all have a great amount of depth to them, and SSBB will too, so tout it as anything else other then a good thing (instead of something that would place it on a higher pedestal).

;p

 

[kKor]

still need to know if this applies to after dieing or not.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Traditional fighting games like GG and Melty Blood have a different kind of depth to them though. I play Smash and Soul Calibur competitively, and I can safely say that Soul Calibur is much much harder and more technical (mind game oriented)

However, Smash Bros is a lot less limiting, which makes the technical aspect seem "easier" even though it's still quite complex at higher level play. The thing is, in Smash Bros you're free to strategise however you want. You can run away from your opponent to give yourself breathing room. Try that in Soul Calibur and your opponent will chase you down and critical hit you with a big stick.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

still need to know if this applies to after dieing or not.

Dying and respawning appears to set all of your moves back to full power, just like in the previous two games.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Dying and respawning appears to set all of your moves back to full power, just like in the previous two games.

This means you have to watch out for your opponent as they come down from the respawn platform. Revenge KOs will be unexpected.

 

[S2]

Ryoko I still had one question that maybe you could answer...

so if an attack is diminished (let's say for example Zelda's F-air), does its knockback/damage build back simply over time by not hitting with it or by doing a certain amount of damage with other attacks? Or both?

Obviously you may not have Brawl to test it, but do you know how it worked in Melee?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

You actually had to hit and deal damage with other attacks in order to reverse damage decay on staled moves. How many hits you needed to make depends on how "staled" the attack was. Also, rapid jabs and other multi-hit attacks which consisted of a single input will only cause one count of move decay like any other attack. The passage of time did absolutely nothing to bring damage back.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

We really need someone to test how Damage Scaling works in Brawl...

 

[Lunaretic]

This matchup between Gimpyfish and an unknown zelda shows this effect really well, skip forward onto the last stock, the zelda player repeatedly uses the fsmash 5-7 times in a row with only an occasional hit between, by the end, the half-charged Fsmash is only sending gimpy at 170% barely off the screen. She then connects with as single ftilt and KO's gimpy pretty far off the top.