Stiyp.NewT
Smash Rookie
Which AT's do you need to master in order to play a competitive Wolf? I tend to scar a lot, but that's really the only AT I use often. Just looking for some advice. 
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Important AT's for current metagame
- Thread starter Stiyp.NewT
- Start date
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Boost Smash is definitely something you're going to need, you know how to do that right?
Then there's the retreating Fair, I think that's important.
The next AT you need to master is Bair, very important.
And the most difficult AT in Wolf's arsenal to master: Up B, I recommend practicing this a lot.
Then there's the retreating Fair, I think that's important.
The next AT you need to master is Bair, very important.
And the most difficult AT in Wolf's arsenal to master: Up B, I recommend practicing this a lot.
scar = predictable.
semiscar = less predictable, but both get predictable over time
boost up smash, 0 lag fair, shff uair for early juggling, and just get the usual 2 hit combos that Wolf is a master of.
bair to fsmash, fair to utilt, nair to dsmash
semiscar = less predictable, but both get predictable over time
boost up smash, 0 lag fair, shff uair for early juggling, and just get the usual 2 hit combos that Wolf is a master of.
bair to fsmash, fair to utilt, nair to dsmash
Stiyp.NewT
Smash Rookie
I can boost smash with Snake and Link, I haven't practice it with wolf too much. It's really not that hard though. Was the Bair and Up B sarcasm though?
I'm actually rather good with Wolf's Up B. Scarring does get predictable I suppose. Shff uair sounds good and the 2 hit combos are nasty. Boost smashing was already mentioned and the 0 lag fair is nifty.
Thank you both for the help.
Stiyp.NewT
Smash Rookie
k sounds good.
Van Jones
Smash Lord
Scarring is very important. It gives you a different way to get back on stage when someone is trying to crowd your nuts off. Also, you don't have to scar all the time. When someone is waiting for you to scar, you can use a different method to get back on stage. Very useful mind game.
Scarring is nowhere near as useful as semiscarring. It just gets way too predictable, semiscarring is a bit more of a surprise. Illusion cancel can throw people off, but I don't know if the risk is worth it, being off by one frame can own you there. Bair is a necessity, just like good aim with upB. Also learn to use the spike, if you get used to it, you can get some wonderfully early kills.
Stiyp.NewT
Smash Rookie
I figured scarring could work as a good mind game.
You're talking about Wolf's bair, correct?
Van Jones
Smash Lord
I agree that semi-scarring is more important than scarring, but to say that scarring isn't important is ignorant. When your opponent knows that you have multiple recovery tech like scarring and semi-scarring, it completely changes his/her edge guarding strategy. With a recovery as terrible a Wolf's, he needs as many different techs as he can get.
By the spike, I mean the Dair spike. Granted, bair stage spike is also good, but mastering dair just feels so good. And yeah, I agree that scarring does have its uses too, they just seem to pale in comparison to semiscarring, or at least to me. Scarring is a very good mixup for stages that allow it though, and you are right, we need every recovery option we can get. Fortunately, scarring, semiscarring, telestepping, the ledge cancel thing with side B, the illusion cancel, and (almost forgot this one) up B give us a LOT of options to choose from.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Restating the fact that you should master your UpB. If you get caught underneath a stage like Lylat, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon Stadium 1&2, etc, after you aim your Upb towards the ledge, letting go of the control stick will make sweetspotting the edge automatic, whereas normally Wolf would most likely get stuck underneath the floor or just fly past the edge and die. Run-on sentence ftw.
Never knew about that sweetspotting thing. Also, if you smash a direction before you put in the upB command, you slide a little bit in that direction before you take off. This can save you or screw you though, I bet everyone has realized it before but just pointing it out in case.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
I didn't know about it until last week. I wasn't sure if it was common knowledge.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
I actually think boost smashing is overrated. It's useful, but if you look at competitive matches where Wolf players use it, it only occasionally actually comes in handy for them. Certainly a good technique to learn, but not nearly as important as 0 lag fair and wolf walls.
And scarring is great, you just have to not be a blockhead about it. Obviously you don't want to scar every time, but if you mix it up with your regular methods of getting back on the stage, it really helps keep your opponent guessing.
Illusion cancel is amazing, and I think it will eventually become an important part of an advanced Wolf's game, but it's definitely one of the last things you should work on mastering.
And scarring is great, you just have to not be a blockhead about it. Obviously you don't want to scar every time, but if you mix it up with your regular methods of getting back on the stage, it really helps keep your opponent guessing.
Illusion cancel is amazing, and I think it will eventually become an important part of an advanced Wolf's game, but it's definitely one of the last things you should work on mastering.
snadmonkey
Smash Journeyman
Can anyone do the dash cancel pivot grab with wolf. I can do it with falco but can't seem to get it with wolf. So you know its very similiar to dacus but instead of pushing up and grab u push back and grab. What happens is ur character slides forward while doing a pivot grab, its very useful for falco since it allows him to turn around his chaingrab to take someone to a ledge. Just curious if wolf can do this, I'm wondering if he'd slide enough to make this useful.
For this, would you use the c-stick or the a button?
chronoize
Smash Journeyman
i was working with wolf and i saw that he could do a dash cancel pivot grab. though i dont think the slide is as long as falco is, but the slide is probably twice the distance of wolfs normal pivot grab, not saying much though. he makes like a "YEA" noise or a "HAH." i dunno how useful this could be though.
Van Jones
Smash Lord
Yeah. It isn't that great for Wolf. I don't really feel like it adds that much to his game.
TKD
Smash Lord
DownB has infinite priority on startup. INFINITE PRIORITY MEANS IT BEATS ALL OF MK'S B MOVES.
It should be considered an advanced technique to press down+B as you're falling in order to negate edgeguard attempts or attempts to hit you in the air. It's even better than super armor, since you don't actually receive any damage while doing it. And it's a better defensive option than Fox's reflector because of its range, and, duh, much, much metter than Falco's because that one doesn't even protect you.
You also need to learn to cancel the sideB. If someone would be able to do that consistently, he would rock.
Most important, along with using downB to avoid painful situations, is to learn to space your bair well. You have to know when to fastfall it and against what characters. You also have to learn exactly how far it reaches out, since it rivals MK's fair range. I space bair well, and the worst that happens against MK's fair, is for both of us to get hit, and for me to receive the 1st slash only. Against that one, you even have to fastfall+bair at the exact time so you hit either if he hops or stays on the ground.
So...reflector defense, bair spacing and blaster each time you can. Knowing which move of yours KOes at what time is necessary too. So an advanced Wolf player doesn't know a bunch of advanced techniques, he just plays basic techniques at an advanced level.
Plus your jabs and ftilt completely rock the short range. Even attempting ftilt after dthrow is safe. And as for a bair's follow-up, bair to ftilt is nice when possible. It's hard to tell when bair to fsmash will work, so it's not that safe.
It should be considered an advanced technique to press down+B as you're falling in order to negate edgeguard attempts or attempts to hit you in the air. It's even better than super armor, since you don't actually receive any damage while doing it. And it's a better defensive option than Fox's reflector because of its range, and, duh, much, much metter than Falco's because that one doesn't even protect you.
You also need to learn to cancel the sideB. If someone would be able to do that consistently, he would rock.
Most important, along with using downB to avoid painful situations, is to learn to space your bair well. You have to know when to fastfall it and against what characters. You also have to learn exactly how far it reaches out, since it rivals MK's fair range. I space bair well, and the worst that happens against MK's fair, is for both of us to get hit, and for me to receive the 1st slash only. Against that one, you even have to fastfall+bair at the exact time so you hit either if he hops or stays on the ground.
So...reflector defense, bair spacing and blaster each time you can. Knowing which move of yours KOes at what time is necessary too. So an advanced Wolf player doesn't know a bunch of advanced techniques, he just plays basic techniques at an advanced level.
Plus your jabs and ftilt completely rock the short range. Even attempting ftilt after dthrow is safe. And as for a bair's follow-up, bair to ftilt is nice when possible. It's hard to tell when bair to fsmash will work, so it's not that safe.
Captain Sa10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2007
- Messages
- 390
IF you stll wan tany tips on AT's, just working on implimentations are key role in playing wolf:
-Try shine->bair for quick and surprising edgegaurds.
-get good with scarring in general that way it throws out your options of recovery other then up B.
-master up recovery before anything, because it'll save your *** in a heartbeat( in my opinion, its more useful going vertically, and horizontally then diagonal, which over B can cover pretty easily).
-Finding special hitboxes that produce spectacular result, such as using the bair hitbox on the elbow of wolf in order to hit with the same amount of damage, and similar distance then with hitting with his foot.
-Learn to spam when necessary! Despite anything, spam when needed and use it stragetically.
-D-smash when your going for the kill, BUT you could always use F-smash as well if you want to change it up.
-Learn to DACUS willingly, and produce unexpected combo's and sometimes dodge blows and get in close.
-Reflector, enough said(use it to stop chains, agression, epic dodging, etc.)
-Learn to telestep if you want to expand your recovery range in case your opponent does expect you to scar.
-Fair Defending(fair retreating in other words), Fair Walling(fair pursuit), bair walling, Uair juggles, D-tilt gaurding and spacing, F-tilt, AA-canceling.
-and if you want to get really technical, you can start learning how to use the over B to the fullest and using it as a final reachout to finish foes(but you have to learn the different areas it spikes first, which I refuse to tell xP)
other then that, develop your own playstyle form that stuff and make the best out of wolfs strentghs OR weaknesses.
almost forgot: Sheild-dashing, RAR'ed Bairs.
-Try shine->bair for quick and surprising edgegaurds.
-get good with scarring in general that way it throws out your options of recovery other then up B.
-master up recovery before anything, because it'll save your *** in a heartbeat( in my opinion, its more useful going vertically, and horizontally then diagonal, which over B can cover pretty easily).
-Finding special hitboxes that produce spectacular result, such as using the bair hitbox on the elbow of wolf in order to hit with the same amount of damage, and similar distance then with hitting with his foot.
-Learn to spam when necessary! Despite anything, spam when needed and use it stragetically.
-D-smash when your going for the kill, BUT you could always use F-smash as well if you want to change it up.
-Learn to DACUS willingly, and produce unexpected combo's and sometimes dodge blows and get in close.
-Reflector, enough said(use it to stop chains, agression, epic dodging, etc.)
-Learn to telestep if you want to expand your recovery range in case your opponent does expect you to scar.
-Fair Defending(fair retreating in other words), Fair Walling(fair pursuit), bair walling, Uair juggles, D-tilt gaurding and spacing, F-tilt, AA-canceling.
-and if you want to get really technical, you can start learning how to use the over B to the fullest and using it as a final reachout to finish foes(but you have to learn the different areas it spikes first, which I refuse to tell xP)
other then that, develop your own playstyle form that stuff and make the best out of wolfs strentghs OR weaknesses.
almost forgot: Sheild-dashing, RAR'ed Bairs.
UpB has less distance than sideB, so I try to recover with sideB unless I need to wait for invincibility frames on the ledge to go away to make a safe recovery or... that's about it. Mastering the 8 different angles is very useful too. Something about upB that everyone probably knows but just doesn't mention, ever notice how when you start it up, you still slide a bit in the air the direction you were DIing? Be careful with that, it can save you or screw you, and having control over it is a must to avoid stupid deaths (such as getting caught under FD).
And the usmash has great horizontal killing power IMO, maybe because the opponent is expecting to go up and is already DIing the wrong way.
Capatin Sa10, what are your particular uses for ftilt, and in particular, what do you think about just hitting with the second part of the attack? Its something I've been doing for a while and it seems to be quite helpful.
And the usmash has great horizontal killing power IMO, maybe because the opponent is expecting to go up and is already DIing the wrong way.
Capatin Sa10, what are your particular uses for ftilt, and in particular, what do you think about just hitting with the second part of the attack? Its something I've been doing for a while and it seems to be quite helpful.
the horizontal hitbox occurs when you hit someone with only the second hit and they are on the ground, or very, very, very low. obviously this is rare because it means they have to run into it, if you land the first hit, they will be put above you and then launched upwards.
also, there are not 8 angles of direction for upb. i repeat, there are not 8 angles. there are 16. you can launch in the eight natural directions of the joystick, and in the 8 directions in between them. don't forget that, it can save your life to be just a bit more precise with your aiming.
also, there are not 8 angles of direction for upb. i repeat, there are not 8 angles. there are 16. you can launch in the eight natural directions of the joystick, and in the 8 directions in between them. don't forget that, it can save your life to be just a bit more precise with your aiming.
^ My bad, I meant 16. It's very handy though, saves your life when stuck under the ledge in FD. I usually get the horizontal attack from the usmash when the opponent tries to spotdodge it, for me its the best way to 'counter' a spotdodge.
Captain Sa10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2007
- Messages
- 390
Towards Ishieymoro:
In my opinion, f-tilt has three primary uses:
1. Spacing
2.Edgegaurding with angled downard f-tilt (can use d-tilt as well)
3.countering. When I say countering I mean that it's a nice follow up after sheilding your opponents attacks or spotdodging and attacking shortly afterwards. And if you catch them during a spotdodge, it allows for function number 1 to accure as well, keeping your distance and possibly following up with a laser.
Towards the second hit of f-tilt, I noticed it has a nice "rend" effect, allowing you to catch the opponent off gaurd and allowing for some good follow ups since it tends to have less knockback and sends them upward slightly. In fact, you could probably catch them in a quick chain by using the second part of the f-tilt, which can be really deadly with wolf. If anything, it is useful form low-mid percents, and im not sure exactly what angle it'll send them in higher percents, but its a good way of not only keeping a good ground mix up, but allows for wolf to gain advantages in multiple ways. Im pretty sure the angles of wolf's f-tilt change the factors up, so I'll be testing this out to see if there are more potential usages. Thanks for bringing that up by the way.
In my opinion, f-tilt has three primary uses:
1. Spacing
2.Edgegaurding with angled downard f-tilt (can use d-tilt as well)
3.countering. When I say countering I mean that it's a nice follow up after sheilding your opponents attacks or spotdodging and attacking shortly afterwards. And if you catch them during a spotdodge, it allows for function number 1 to accure as well, keeping your distance and possibly following up with a laser.
Towards the second hit of f-tilt, I noticed it has a nice "rend" effect, allowing you to catch the opponent off gaurd and allowing for some good follow ups since it tends to have less knockback and sends them upward slightly. In fact, you could probably catch them in a quick chain by using the second part of the f-tilt, which can be really deadly with wolf. If anything, it is useful form low-mid percents, and im not sure exactly what angle it'll send them in higher percents, but its a good way of not only keeping a good ground mix up, but allows for wolf to gain advantages in multiple ways. Im pretty sure the angles of wolf's f-tilt change the factors up, so I'll be testing this out to see if there are more potential usages. Thanks for bringing that up by the way.
No problem Captain, tell me if you find anything neat with it. I found that a lot of times, after a dtilt at low percents (especially when it trips) its very easy to hit with only the second part of ftilt. Hitting with both parts is very risky IMO because anyone can just shieldgrab you, or block and jab, or any other quick attack. I use it primarily to make some space when finishing a string of attacks. It seems to send the opponent at a 40 degree angle (roughly). I have yet to experiment with the angles, but I'll keep testing things with ftilt and post out whatever interesting things I find out about it.