I'm sick and tired of Libertarians

[1048576]

All this fluff and garbage about how people can do anything if they put their mind to it and how poor people are only poor because they are unmotivated. News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero. I'm an idiot. My IQ is in the double digits. I try to do well in school. I've been studying for an exam for the past 12 hours or so. It's killing me. I've literally taken every practice exam and read all the notes I could find, and I've learned nothing. Meanwhile, some lucky soul who was born with a brain is playing World of Warcraft, and will probably do better than me on the exam. When I fail, I know someone is going to tell me I should have tried harder, and I know it's going to be a Libertarian, and I'm gonna rip his ****in head off.

 

[The Executive]

The DH must be a little too hot for someone...

I probably fall into the "born with a brain" category; I have a 135+ IQ and am quite unmotivated, yet still do well in school. Does that disprove Libertarianism? (I'm pretty sure)

That said, hypothetically if my unmotivation grows unchecked I may become poor in spite of my intelligence and that would prove it.

Realistically, despite being told that I would have to step up my game once in college I have found that I can attain a 3.0 with no extra effort. Not palatable by any means, but it conflicts with Libertarian thought: if I am unsuccessful because I do not put forth effort, then I am successful because I do put forth effort, but in my case I'm moderately successful effort not withstanding.

Who knows?

 

[Peeze]

News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero.

You cant really believe this.

 

[Eor]

http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2175650

 

[Crimson King]

School does not equal the real world. In school you can half-*** your way through depending on your district and how well they actually score and rank you. In a work environment, this is harder to do because employers who have to choose between a worker who works hard and a worker who works the bare minimum for the same pay will ALWAYS choose the former.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero

You cant really believe this.

QFT. There will always be extreme cases. Sometimes people are simply unlucky, sure. Do I believe that someone with an IQ of 80 can be more successful than someone with an IQ of 160? Well.... I was gonna say "no", but come to think of it, yes. It happens. My uncle has an IQ of 160 and he doesn't have a job. He didn't go to college. He wasted his abilities. Anyone with a job beats him as far as success goes.

But anyways. Can someone with an IQ of 100 be better off than someone with 130? You better believe it. You can't take generalizations to extreme cases. The correlation between success and effort is equally significant to that of intelligence. If you took Bill Gates out of his home, got rid of everything he owned, gave him a different name and dumped him on the street next to a bum, in 10 years Bill Gates would be rich again (if not well-off) and the bum would still be a bum. Even if those two people had the same IQ. Thus, it's not so much about what you are given, but about what you pursue and how you pursue it. I wish you good luck on your test, it sounds like you deserve a good score. But if you don't get one, you have very bad luck.

 

[1048576]

School does not equal the real world. In school you can half-*** your way through depending on your district and how well they actually score and rank you. In a work environment, this is harder to do because employers who have to choose between a worker who works hard and a worker who works the bare minimum for the same pay will ALWAYS choose the former.

My point is that an employer wants results. It doesn't matter how they come about.

 

[Sporkman]

All this fluff and garbage about how people can do anything if they put their mind to it and how poor people are only poor because they are unmotivated. News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero. I'm an idiot. My IQ is in the double digits. I try to do well in school. I've been studying for an exam for the past 12 hours or so. It's killing me. I've literally taken every practice exam and read all the notes I could find, and I've learned nothing. Meanwhile, some lucky soul who was born with a brain is playing World of Warcraft, and will probably do better than me on the exam. When I fail, I know someone is going to tell me I should have tried harder, and I know it's going to be a Libertarian, and I'm gonna rip his ****in head off.

Natural Selection innit tbh tbf.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

All this fluff and garbage about how people can do anything if they put their mind to it and how poor people are only poor because they are unmotivated.

What does any of that have to do with Libertarianism? Libertarians (at least in the United States) think that people should be allowed to do what they want with themselves, as long as they don't infringe upon anybody elses equal right to do what they desire, AND as long as they are willing to accept the consequences.

You want to sluff off through school, skip class, never do homework, smoke with your friends? Go right ahead. Just be ready to deal with whatever consequences come your way.

You want to study hard, do your homework, go above and beyond what is called of you in your education, be my guest. The consequences will still be present, they'll just be more remnant of rewards.

Basically, my point is, you brought libertarianism (Libertarianism?) into your argument for no reason. Being libertarian (or Libertarian) has absolutley nothing at all to do with being successful or not, educated or not, etc.

And, I hope you realise being libertarian =/= being Libertarian. Libertarianism =/= libertariansim. There is so much wrong with what you've posted, it's laughable. I doubt anybody got the real or intended message since you worded things so ludicrously and incorrectly.

News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero.

lol

When I fail, I know someone is going to tell me I should have tried harder, and I know it's going to be a Libertarian

Actually, most Libertarians (and libertarians) wouldn't say anything of that sort. They may think it, but even that's a generalization. They wouldn't care what the **** you did or didn't do, as long as you did so according to yourself.

 

[Dodongo]

All this fluff and garbage about how people can do anything if they put their mind to it and how poor people are only poor because they are unmotivated. News flash: effort and income have no correlation, zero. I'm an idiot. My IQ is in the double digits. I try to do well in school. I've been studying for an exam for the past 12 hours or so. It's killing me. I've literally taken every practice exam and read all the notes I could find, and I've learned nothing. Meanwhile, some lucky soul who was born with a brain is playing World of Warcraft, and will probably do better than me on the exam. When I fail, I know someone is going to tell me I should have tried harder, and I know it's going to be a Libertarian, and I'm gonna rip his ****in head off.

You don't understand libertarianism at all. It's not about telling poor or stupid people to **** themselves, it's about choosing to be responsible for yourself and not relying on a poorly run system to carry you.

 

[slave1]

i have a class that i am taking right now. it talks about how people learn. and frankly if you are not learning jack the way you are studying, try something else. do something active why you learn. shoot a water at targets and recite what you need to know.

you just sound kinda like a pessimistic person who wants to rant at something.LOL

 

[Eor]

You don't understand libertarianism at all. It's not about telling poor or stupid people to **** themselves, it's about choosing to be responsible for yourself and not relying on a poorly run system to carry you.

Aye, and socialism is about equality and being nice to people.

These extremes all do much more then the simple moral sentence people use to describe them.

 

[AltF4]

The OP may have been wildly misinformed, and is speaking from a poor context, but there is a real debatable issue underneath it all. The Libertarian philosophies of unlimited personal and economic freedoms are naive and short-sighted. A purely capitalistic economy is a terrible thing which naturally leads to a self widening gap between rich and poor.

There must be a system of mechanisms in place to ensure an optimal amount of personal and economic freedoms. But there is a fine line between freedom and anarchy.

 

[Sporkman]

The OP may have been wildly misinformed, and is speaking from a poor context, but there is a real debatable issue underneath it all. The Libertarian philosophies of unlimited personal and economic freedoms are naive and short-sighted. A purely capitalistic economy is a terrible thing which naturally leads to a self widening gap between rich and poor.

There must be a system of mechanisms in place to ensure an optimal amount of personal and economic freedoms. But there is a fine line between freedom and anarchy.

Subtle. I like it.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

So just to clarify, what are we debating here?

 

[Jam Stunna]

The OP may have been wildly misinformed, and is speaking from a poor context, but there is a real debatable issue underneath it all. The Libertarian philosophies of unlimited personal and economic freedoms are naive and short-sighted. A purely capitalistic economy is a terrible thing which naturally leads to a self widening gap between rich and poor.

There must be a system of mechanisms in place to ensure an optimal amount of personal and economic freedoms. But there is a fine line between freedom and anarchy.

That's my only real gripe with libertarians, that they let their philosophy go too far. I agree that there does need to be some limits to libertarian thought, and if they would just back off on their own beliefs a little, they could probably find a considerable mainstream following.

At the same time, welfare and government assistance programs need major reform. I know four people who receive permanent SSI/disability benefits, and I know for a fact that at least two of them could work and be productive if they tried, or were forced to. But they don't have to, so they just sit around and collect a check.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

The Libertarian philosophies of unlimited personal and economic freedoms are naive and short-sighted.

Libertarians don't believe in unlimited freedom. The freedom is limited in that each person has the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives (withholding interference of the equal right of others ). It does not extend further than yourself.

Economic freedom isn't unlimited either. The LP Statement of Principles states that the Government does play a role in Economics. They must "protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. "

It's not perfect, and I doubt there is a perfect ideology in this earthly world. It's simply attempting to allow as much personal freedom as possible, and as much economic freedom as possible, while not becoming anarchist, discordian, or unfair. Of that they do a good job (IMO).

 

[Dodongo]

It's not perfect, and I doubt there is a perfect ideology in this earthly world. It's simply attempting to allow as much personal freedom as possible, and as much economic freedom as possible, while not becoming anarchist, discordian, or unfair. Of that they do a good job (IMO).

Right.

It's not like I believe Libertarianism can work 100%, I just think it's a way better option than any of the other political parties. Obviously I don't blindly agree with any one specific political philosophy by itself, but if I had to pick one, Libertarianism fits best with my desire for personal freedom.

 

[Sporkman]

After putting my amazingly coincidental poker pic in the wrong thread I'll try and say something constructive.

I agree with Dodongo.

 

[McFox]

The school system is biased towards a certain kind of "learning". And by "learning," I mean "memorization," because that's all that's expected of you in school. "Memorize these random and largely completely useless facts until the test, and then forget about them forever."

 

[Kinzer]

The school system is biased towards a certain kind of "learning". And by "learning," I mean "memorization," because that's all that's expected of you in school. "Memorize these random and largely completely useless facts until the test, and then forget about them forever."

At least things like formal sentence structure and any type of mathematics can and will still apply to the real world...otherwise thank you for helping me finally confirm that school is otherwise just a load of BS.

 

[notftomearth7]

The economy is in shambles because of Libertarians. They're giving lones to people who obviously can't pay back the money, and there's a splurge of credit card usage and a lesser amount of paper cash.


So I agree with what the thread-maker said.

 

[manhunter098]

The economy is in shambles because of Libertarians. They're giving lones to people who obviously can't pay back the money, and there's a splurge of credit card usage and a lesser amount of paper cash.


So I agree with what the thread-maker said.

And your point is? Any Libertarian who makes a mistake shouldnt be making the same mistake twice, ever. Part of Libertarian ideals is that if you make a mistake you should be able to learn from it because you will be responsible for the consequences, and other people should be able to learn from it too, that way mistakes are not repeated as often. Furthermore there arent enough Libertarians running things to have a significant impact on policy, so I dont see how you could be blaming them for anything.

 

[AltF4]

thank you for helping me finally confirm that school is otherwise just a load of BS.

Don't. Just don't.

Do you really think that school is a bunch of nonsense? Really? Think about it for a moment. You're telling me that there is a huge adult conspiracy to send every child in America to school against their will, just for the sake of making them suffer? Don't be absurd.

If you are telling me that you don't need school and that it's pointless, then you are the worst kind of dumb person: A dumb person who is too dumb to know that they're dumb.


We live in the information age. How much you know defines your worth as a person.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Which is really sad.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Which is really sad.

Why? It's always been like that. Knowledge is the ultimate form of freedom, because a person who knows enough knows enough to choose.

 

[1048576]

Freedom is overrated. Knowing things is scary. I'd rather just do what people tell me to do. I'd make a good soldier.

Unfortunately that philosphy won't fly on my Digital Logic exam.

I know what Libertarianism is. It combines Republican conservative economic values wwith Democratic liberal sociel values. It basically says that govt. is for cops and traffic lights, and if you want something else you need to get it yourself.

Just for everyone who says I'm misinformed; I'm not. I'm just stupid.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

So the moral of the story is, judge people by how much they know, if they don't know much then they are not worth much as a person?

And if someone disagrees they are the worst kind of dumb person, a dumb person who doesn't know they are dumb.

 

[Kinzer]

Don't. Just don't.

Do you really think that school is a bunch of nonsense? Really? Think about it for a moment. You're telling me that there is a huge adult conspiracy to send every child in America to school against their will, just for the sake of making them suffer? Don't be absurd.

If you are telling me that you don't need school and that it's pointless, then you are the worst kind of dumb person: A dumb person who is too dumb to know that they're dumb.


We live in the information age. How much you know defines your worth as a person.

Okay, I will admit I was a bit prejudice, but what do you want from me, I got a Health class last year that told me nothing but "stay away from sex, alcohol, and drugs", and really the only last item was right. Yeah I get the point, sex is something that should be saved for marriage, There's nothing wrong with drinknig at a moderate level, the problem is the majority of people are stupid enough to do it when they shouldn't be, and it has everybody worried that we're all going to go down the same road. Isn't "Health" suppose to teach you how to take care of yourself? I mean really it was so one-sided I can't even recall a time that was mentioned about the right foods I have to eat and blah blah blah. Now tell me something I HAVEN'T ALREADY HEARD PLEASE!

You sound an awful like my Step-Father which he thinks I'm one of the "worse" type of teenagers who go out when they shouldn't, does drugs, doesn't do schoolwork, etc. (I only do schoolwork because I do know enough that to get something it has to be worked for, because they won't take me for a psychologist if I don't apparently have a college degree. If school is a stepping stone to this, so be it, I do what I'm told, nothing else) He doesn't even trust me enough to think I'll get anywhere in life, but at least with that I have something to go on to rub in his face when I prove him so very wrong. Man, anybody at my school could tell you that I seem to be more motivated/intelligent/hard-working than most seniors at my school...this is sad, they should know more seeing as how they have taken more classes...

Also I find things like Science useless, as if I KNOW I'll just SOMEHOW get through life far enough to the point where I MIGHT just be a scientist in a specific category...

NO!

Hell, if anything, I don't even really have any type of career plans related to Science, If anything I'll probably work in Psychology, and I have yet to have a class that is anything related to that. And If I can't get a job as a psychologist well then I'll have the find something related to Math because to me it's the only "real" subject that you WILL use in life as I said before.

Tell me when I'm wrong that school is for the most part useless, I have yet to even mention how bad schools can be just because it's a free service where any gangster punk can be in the same class as you and disrupt your learning process.

 

[Peeze]

We live in the information age. How much you know defines your worth as a person.

I agreed with everything you said up to this point. I think its more of what you know than how much you. For instance lets say you major in Business, Theology, Architecture, Computer Science, even gourmet cooking, and i only major in Medicine. You would have a more broader, bigger knowledge base than i do, that doesn't make you any more valuable than me, who has a smaller knowledge base, but is a capable surgeon who can save lives and knows **** about making a souffe(sp?)

Or would you say that Stephen Hawkins is "worth more" than say a firefighter. Im sure hawkins would know more, but he can't do **** to help society besides relay his knowledge. Im pretty sure the firefighter would be of more worth to society.

 

[SuperBowser]

Hell, if anything, I don't even really have any type of career plans related to Science, If anything I'll probably work in Psychology, and I have yet to have a class that is anything related to that.

A psychologist with no science is a little scary.

Maybe you should read more about psychology.

 

[Sporkman]

Because i'm sure the reason they told you not to do sex was purely because they are all religious and want you to wait till you're married

. Absolutely nothing to do with STD/Is and merely just warning you to be safe.

Do you carry an ankh with you? because it sounds like you have alot of ANKH-ST! I could probably write headlines for some **** tabloid newspaper. I sound like me, and I'm a prick. Step back, check your priorities.

School being useless for the most part? I'll tell you now. You're wrong. How old are you? You don't touch psychology untill you're 16/17 here, and others, like myself, waited 'till 18/19 years of age. It's a specialised subject and that's why you don't do it at a younger age. If you can't see what school gives you then I can't be bothered listing it all here. All McFox did was highlight a contradiction in the teachers' goals. Teachers are rated on the success of their pupils in the exams, if they teach the exam, they look better, if they prepare students as they should, by teaching the subject, and not the exam, then in the long term their students should do better.

I can't be ****ing bothered. I'm too gutted about how I went out the freeroll.

As for you Plu, something got you down? your posts are lacking the happy go lucky tone I'm accustomed to seeing from you, your response in Las Pictoras had my jaw on the floor. I'd say why, but I'd be hijacking.

 

[Kinzer]

A psychologist with no science is a little scary.

Maybe you should read more about psychology.

Well I mean like why would a psychologist ever need to know what happens with astronomy, that doesn't make any sense.

Psychology is the study of human mind/emotion (one or the other I can't remember), nothing that happens in space will concern a Psychologist.

 

[The Executive]

How much you know defines your worth as a person.

How much you know may define your worth, but in corporate America who much you know defines your income. Personal relationships trump personal knowledge. There are fields in which this does not apply, but it's still pervasive in American offices everywhere.

 

[Sporkman]

Well I mean like why would a psychologist ever need to know what happens with astronomy, that doesn't make any sense.

Psychology is the study of human mind/emotion (one or the other I can't remember), nothing that happens in space will concern a Psychologist.

I suggest you take SuperBowser's advice you absolute ****ing mong.

 

[Jam Stunna]

So the moral of the story is, judge people by how much they know, if they don't know much then they are not worth much as a person?

I didn't say they aren't worth much, but a person with more information/knowledge is obviously worth more to themselves and everyone else than someone with less.

 

[AltF4]

Kinzer:

Ha! Well, in retrospect, I may have been a bit harsh.

If you want some REAL advice, then I'll give it to you: Don't ever close off opportunities for yourself.

This is a video game forum, so I don't feel too bad making this analogy... What makes really good gamers so amazing is their ability to put themselves in a position to win. It may seem to you like they get consistently lucky, or just happen to be in the right spot to counter their opponent every time. When really what they're doing is putting themselves in a place where they can choose between the best of many options.

In real life, it's important to have a goal. Have an idea of what you want to do and go forward with it. But at the same time, do not close the doors to other opportunities. You might just be the world's best Ping Pong player, but you just don't know it yet because you haven't tried it!

Everything you learn in school is a door to possible paths in life. Every time you give up on one, you are scratching an entire field of possibilities from the list of things you could potentially become. Inevitably, you can't be great at them all (I'm an Engineer, and am terrible at art) but if you give up on too many of them, you'll be left with nothing at all.



But I don't recall mentioning anything about sex, drugs, or alcohol. In fact, this whole thread has gotten rather off topic... In FACT I'm not sure we ever had a topic to begin with...

I'm not a mod of the PRoom, but I motion for a thread close.

 

[SuperBowser]

Well I mean like why would a psychologist ever need to know what happens with astronomy, that doesn't make any sense.

Psychology is the study of human mind/emotion (one or the other I can't remember), nothing that happens in space will concern a Psychologist.

Well then you're sadly mistaken. Learning basic sciences gives you the foundation you need. The scientific method, logic, analytical thought, understanding abstract concepts, why evidence is important, I could go on forever. Besides, you need to learn a hell of a lot of biology.

I certainly wouldn't want to be treated by a psychologist that never learnt basic sciences. I'd question if they're even fit to practice...

EDIT: I've been beat'd several times over...

 

[Kinzer]

I suggest you take SuperBowser's advice you absolute ****ing mong.

God I'm glad I decided to not sign up to be a debater, if there's this much drama in there than forget it...

By the way there was no need to swear/insult, just because I have a different point of view doesn't mean you need to be an ***clown about it.

Edit: For Alt and Super, you're both right.

Starting with Alt, I guess just because I consider some subjects insignifigant doesn't mean I should just disregard it completly.

And Super, you're sort of right, being a psychologist, you need to be logical, so having a little bit of knowledge everywhere helps, at least this is if I am reading you right.

 

[NES n00b]

The economy is in shambles because of Libertarians. They're giving lones to people who obviously can't pay back the money, and there's a splurge of credit card usage and a lesser amount of paper cash.


So I agree with what the thread-maker said.

All Bank executives are libertarians? what?

If you mean deregulation got us into this mess, then where does the regulation to give out so many sub prime loans apply? Oh right, there should have been a regulation on the regulation my bad.