I'm pretty terrified of SSB4's character set

[Kevandre]

If Sakurai makes cuts/changes based off of the fanbase's opinion on Brawl's set and what they want changed, that's going to screw with me big time. I was still reeling over the loss of Roy, who was easily my favorite Melee character when I moved on to find my favorite Brawl characters:

Pokemon Trainer (Mainly Ivysaur)
Lucas
ROB
Olimar

And now, based on what I see on these boards, I could very well stand to lose all four of them. People want PKMN Trainer to either change pokemon or leave, only keeping in Charizard (Who I hate to play as, Squirtle is okay I guess but Ivy is god tier in my book) from the current set. People want Lucas to either change or leave since his moves are so similar to Ness (But they play oh so differently). ROB's apparently just not popular at all and supposedly has a good chance to be cut, and they're saying Olimar may be replaced by a new Pikmin rep (Which I guess is okay if it's the same moveset but I doubt it).

This is so not cool. It seems to always be my favorites that are targeted. Please don't listen to them Sakurai, it would absolutely blow hard if you did... You could totally just not cut anyone! And bring back Roy (and Mewtwo) while you're at it!!

 

[Starcutter]

I know how you feel, I main lucario. and people want him cut.

 

[Kevandre]

Funnily enough, Lucario is just about the only Brawl character that I can't play well. Not that I want him gone, since he's still pretty baller as a character in Smash and has a really interesting gimmick. Plus I think that as long as one fan loves a character, you shouldn't remove them from this type of game...

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Olimar's far from being cut.
Besides being Miyamoto's favorite character he's made, he still has an unannounced role in Pikmin 3.
He's a staple of the series.
His moveset will definitely be accommodated for the 3DS version though.

Also ROB is the equivalent of Game and Watch, they can't take him out.

As for characters I assume will be cut: Lucas, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, either Wolf or Falco, maybe Snake, Toon Link, and Ike.

 

[Starcutter]

I still think alph might be added in addition to olimar using the new pikmin as new moves. but that's me.

I do agree that cuts are going to be the worst thing about any sequel to any fighting game.

 

[CalumG]

Honestly? I think the characters listed are some of the least likely to go. Olimar may go but'll only be replaced by a character near-identical in moveset (to reflect the character line-up change in Pikmin 3), Sakurai has something of a soft spot for Mother so I can't see Ness nor Lucas getting axed, R.O.B. is crucial to Nintendo's history and Pokemon Trainer has three of the most iconic Pokemon in the series - far moreso than Jigglypuff, Lucario, Zoroark or any newcomer could ever be.

If I had to place my bets on characters likely to get the chop, I'd say it's Solid Snake, Sonic (much as I'd hate his omission), Wolf/Falco (remove one and then combine the best features of the two's movesets), Jigglypuff/Lucario (or both - I'm not too fussed about either), one of the Fire Emblem characters and Toon Link. That's just my personal opinion of course, but I can say with some confidence that all four characters you've mentioned are pretty safe bets for returning veterans in some form.

 

[RODO]

I feel like ROB was a one and done personally. Olimar will probably stay. PKMN Trainer I really have no idea how that will go. Lucas might go unless he decides to change up the moveset more

 

[woopyfrood]

Sakurai has already confirmed that he simply doesn't have time to bring back everyone from Brawl. The only reason this would be is because there are newcomers with higher priority.

However, I'm sure Sakurai knows he'll be getting heat for cutting characters. This is why I find DLC to be extremely likely. "Don't worry, they didn't make it in on release, but they'll be here soon through DLC!" It's really his best option to prevent massive dissatisfaction with the game. You can have your veterans (Mario), crowd-pleasing newcomers (Megaman), and your advertisement newcomers (Wii Fit Trainer), all without causing waves of despair amongst fans. DLC stops any characters from outside of those categories from getting completely shafted. The only downside is the requirement of fan patience.

 

[FalKoopa]

Just so you know, cuts are NEVER made based on who people want to see cut. That decision rests solely with Sakurai. And he has expressed a strong dislike of cuts.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

If there's one person I think should be cut, it's not any of the clones or topical characters. It's Pokemon Trainer.
It just seems like it would be far too much work and time to make only a single character. Cut him and that frees up much more time than cutting someone like Wolf.

 

[FalKoopa]

If there's one person I think should be cut, it's not any of the clones or topical characters. It's Pokemon Trainer.
It just seems like it would be far too much work and time to make only a single character. Cut him and that frees up much more time than cutting someone like Wolf.

You're not taking the possible backlash into account. Charizard in particular is more popular than Mewtwo, infact.

 

[MexM]

Besides being Miyamoto's favorite character he's made

Link?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Pokemon Trainer - I don't see this guy going, Charizard keeps the character on the roster on his own. If any Pokémon rep is getting cut it's gonna be Lucario.
Lucas - Would be kind of nasty to leave Mother with only 1 rep, but it still might end up being a sad reality. Lucas is the one with the biggest chance of being cut on your list.
ROB - It's possible, but the cuts would have to stretch pretty far to end up reaching R.O.B.
Olimar - No way, Olimar is most definitely gonna stay.

At this point I wouldn't worry, Ike, and to a lesser extent also Lucas are the characters I love playing that is at risk, but I'm not gonna call doomsday before I see the roster. I have faith in Sakurai and his crew that they're gonna do their very best including as many characters as possible. And if any of the characters are getting cut, then there's not much to do about it other than adapt to the changes I reckon, some sacrifices need to be made occassionally, and sometimes the sad reality is that you're the one who might end up taking the shot for others.

 

[CalumG]

I question why people are so certain about Lucas' exclusion over Ness's. I don't personally see either of them going, but if one of the two were to leave, why shouldn't it be Ness, who is all but washed up at this point? Not only is Lucas more recent, he generally seems to be the more popularly used of the two in Brawl.

Of course I'm skeptical that either of them will leave - but it seems a shame to remove Lucas over Ness just because of Ness's Smash 64 seniority.

 

[FalKoopa]

Ness is more recent due to his game coming on the Wii U Virtual Console. He's a THREE time veteran, and the international face of the Mother series. Need I say more?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I question why people are so certain about Lucas' exclusion over Ness's. I don't personally see either of them going, but if one of the two were to leave, why shouldn't it be Ness, who is all but washed up at this point? Not only is Lucas more recent, he generally seems to be the more popularly used of the two in Brawl.

Of course I'm skeptical that either of them will leave - but it seems a shame to remove Lucas over Ness just because of Ness's Smash 64 seniority.

Ness also has an international release, and an upcoming appearance on the Virtual Console. Lucas on the other hand is exclusive to Japan since Mother 3 never got an international release, and he isn't as much of a veteran as Ness. Ness is more known, more iconic and is in general the better choice to keep of the two. Lucas being new matters nothing since the Mother series ended even before Brawl's release.

And the only reason Lucas is more used in Brawl than Ness is because Lucas is higher on the tier list iirc. Buff Ness and the people who used Lucas solely for his tier position won't be hurt.

 

[Dark Phazon]

If Sakurai makes cuts/changes based off of the fanbase's opinion on Brawl's set and what they want changed, that's going to screw with me big time. I was still reeling over the loss of Roy, who was easily my favorite Melee character when I moved on to find my favorite Brawl characters:

Pokemon Trainer (Mainly Ivysaur)
Lucas
ROB
Olimar

And now, based on what I see on these boards, I could very well stand to lose all four of them. People want PKMN Trainer to either change pokemon or leave, only keeping in Charizard (Who I hate to play as, Squirtle is okay I guess but Ivy is god tier in my book) from the current set. People want Lucas to either change or leave since his moves are so similar to Ness (But they play oh so differently). ROB's apparently just not popular at all and supposedly has a good chance to be cut, and they're saying Olimar may be replaced by a new Pikmin rep (Which I guess is okay if it's the same moveset but I doubt it).

This is so not cool. It seems to always be my favorites that are targeted. Please don't listen to them Sakurai, it would absolutely blow hard if you did... You could totally just not cut anyone! And bring back Roy (and Mewtwo) while you're at it!!

Welcome to my world/the otherside.

Feel free to visit the Ridley or Mewtwo forum.

Who i think will be cut if anything.

R.O.B
Ike
Toon Link
Wolf or Falco
Lucario or PKMN Trainer

 

[Ridley_Prime]

You're not taking the possible backlash into account. Charizard in particular is more popular than Mewtwo, infact.

Doesn't mean they can't make certain ones like Charizard an individual character. For the 3DS, I have to agree that keeping something like Pokemon Trainer might be more effort than it's worth, compared to other characters at least.

 

[Spinosaurus]

This thread makes me glad my favorite characters (Wario, DK and C.Falcon) are pretty much safe. Well, barring Snake, but Sakurai's recent comment about how there aren't any characters cut from Brawl yet made me (wishfully) think he managed to get him and Sonic back in this one.

Though, even if I don't use them, I'd be devastated if Lucas and Ike are gonna end up cut. I'm more of a Ness and Marth guy, but I love their respective series. (Mother deserves 2 reps, and Ike is the second best representative to the series behind Marth himself.)

I also see some people rooting for G&W, Ice Climbers and ROB to be cut (and they're jerks for that!), but I have confidence they'll stay. Same for Lucario, who I don't really like, I don't really see getting cut. He's super popular and iconic as hell in every Pokemon fandom. (casuals, die-hards, and even competitive battlers.) He's STILL used in promotions as well, even promoting B/W2. I don't think it's far-fetched to say he's much more important than even Charizard. (Mewtwo is subjective, given his new transformation.)

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well, the good news is that according to SAkurai, no character has been cut YET. (Whatever that means, keep it that way Sakurai!)

I'm with you where I don't want them to alter Pokemon Trainer in any way, let alone give him the boot.
While everyone was rejoicing about Diddy Kong, Metaknight, Dedede, Toon Link and Ike... I raised an eyebrow for all of them.

However when Pokemon Trainer was revealed, I was really excited! Not only was the hero I play as in my favorite Pokemon games playable, but he brought along my favorite line of starters too!

At least people dropped the crazy idea of scrapping Zero Suit Samus for a much friendlier "Make them separate characters". :D


I don't think Olimar will leave, btw. Not by a long shot. Not with Pikmin 3 being like... Nintendo's selling card at the moment, and Miyamoto's main point of focus.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Doesn't mean they can't make certain ones like Charizard an individual character. For the 3DS, I have to agree that keeping something like Pokemon Trainer might be more effort than it's worth, compared to other characters at least.

Pokémon Trainer functions such that only 1 Pokémon is out at a time (duh). I'm guessing the problems arose specifically with Ice Climbers since it features 2 character out at a time. I don't see that as a problem for him.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

so much unnecessary pokemon trainer hate. This thread makes me unbearably sad.

as for the few PT supporters in this thread, keep rockin life.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Pokémon Trainer functions such that only 1 Pokémon is out at a time (duh). I'm guessing the problems arose specifically with Ice Climbers since it features 2 character out at a time. I don't see that as a problem for him.

I wasn't saying the Trainer would have the same problems as the Ice Climbers (he'll probably get in before the duo), though the final smash does have all three Pokemon out at once. Certainly wouldn't mind if like Charizard had his own down+B special though as an individual character. Only so many characters should have their down special involving some kind of change gimmick IMO.

edit-

so much unnecessary pokemon trainer hate. This thread makes me unbearably sad.

as for the few PT supporters in this thread, keep rockin life.

You call this hate? Cry me a river.

This is nothing compared to how Mewtwo had it from the pre-Brawl speculators that were like out for blood in wanting him gone... and unfortunately got their wish.

 

[Kevandre]

I can understand if people want PKMN trainer gone since, in a way, his one slot essentially takes up 3. But I don't know, man... If they kept Charizard and got rid of Ivysaur (And Squirtle) that'd be just as bad for me.

I'm hoping there's not a whole lot of cuts. I don't ever see a Smash 64 vet getting cut at this time, even Jiggs and Ness. I think that Wolf might go, or at least change him and Falco (Falco doesn't even like the Landmaster!) a bit more, Luigi-fy them if you must.

I don't care about Lucas's tier placement, because I always find tiers to be spectacularly dumb. I just know that I play as him really well, it's the few differences between him and Ness that really make the difference for me

 

[Neanderthal]

I think all of those characters are fine.
Lucas is the only one that I could see maybe being cut.

I think Pokemon trainer just a polarising character. You either love him passionately or hate him passionately. That's why you hear alot of hate, but I think most people like him.
Personally I love the whole concept of the Pokemon Trainer and Ivysaur is my favourite of the three due to his uniqueness so I hope they're all safe.
Ivysaur and to a lesser extend Charizard just need to be buffed because they were underpowered.

 

[Ultinarok]

Ness also has an international release, and an upcoming appearance on the Virtual Console. Lucas on the other hand is exclusive to Japan since Mother 3 never got an international release, and he isn't as much of a veteran as Ness. Ness is more known, more iconic and is in general the better choice to keep of the two. Lucas being new matters nothing since the Mother series ended even before Brawl's release.

And the only reason Lucas is more used in Brawl than Ness is because Lucas is higher on the tier list iirc. Buff Ness and the people who used Lucas solely for his tier position won't be hurt.

Actually Ness is higher by 3 positions, divided by Pokemon Trainer and Mario. So Ness is the better competitive fighter. However, in casual he is much harder to use than Lucas, who is very noob-friendly due to his super powerful smash attacks and less need for combos. So people use Lucas because he's easier.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have seen very few people dislike Pokemon Trainer actually.

People seem to like him.

Really, he has no reason to go.

 

[Kevandre]

I can understand if people want PKMN trainer gone since, in a way, his one slot essentially takes up 3. But I don't know, man... If they kept Charizard and got rid of Ivysaur (And Squirtle) that'd be just as bad for me.

I'm hoping there's not a whole lot of cuts. I don't ever see a Smash 64 vet getting cut at this time, even Jiggs and Ness. I think that Wolf might go, or at least change him and Falco (Falco doesn't even like the Landmaster!) a bit more, Luigi-fy them if you must.

I don't care about Lucas's tier placement, because I always find tiers to be spectacularly dumb. I just know that I play as him really well, it's the few differences between him and Ness that really make the difference for me

 

[shinhed-echi]

Pokemon Trainer had one of the leading roles in the SSE (4th tier-ish, with Lucas (After Kirby,Mario,Metaknight) so that might be something going for him.
And I love that it somehow served as a backstory for him catching Ivysaur and Charizard. =3

With the right fixes, he can be even more fun to play as this time. I think coming up with new pokemon for him will be MUCH more time consuming than porting him from Brawl. And would definitely go against Sakurai's policy of preventing cuts.

 

[Curious Villager]

If Sakurai were to cut characters based on fanbase opinions he would have cut Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch and all the clones ages ago.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about what the fanbase says in terms of which characters get cut, Sakurai understands that each character has their share of fans who want them back in the game so he tries his best to bring back as many of them as possible. The worse thing that could happen is these characters becoming low priority (Which would most likely happen for the clone characters) so they could get cut due to time constraints or if they pose difficulties for the 3DS version (From what I understood, this mostly affect characters who have multiple characters following around them such as the Ice Climbers and Olimar), but Sakurai could make some adjustments for them I would imagine.

You shouldn't worry too much though, especially for those 4 as I can see them all coming back. The Pokemon Trainer and Olimar might need some tweaking maybe. But I'm fairly sure they will likely come back.

 

[Muhti]

Besides being Miyamoto's favorite character he's made

Isn't Mario his biggest money maker?

And what about Link ._.

 

[Dark Phazon]

This thread makes me glad my favorite characters (Wario, DK and C.Falcon) are pretty much safe. Well, barring Snake, but Sakurai's recent comment about how there aren't any characters cut from Brawl yet made me (wishfully) think he managed to get him and Sonic back in this one.

Though, even if I don't use them, I'd be devastated if Lucas and Ike are gonna end up cut. I'm more of a Ness and Marth guy, but I love their respective series. (Mother deserves 2 reps, and Ike is the second best representative to the series behind Marth himself.)

I also see some people rooting for G&W, Ice Climbers and ROB to be cut (and they're jerks for that!), but I have confidence they'll stay. Same for Lucario, who I don't really like, I don't really see getting cut. He's super popular and iconic as hell in every Pokemon fandom. (casuals, die-hards, and even competitive battlers.) He's STILL used in promotions as well, even promoting B/W2. I don't think it's far-fetched to say he's much more important than even Charizard. (Mewtwo is subjective, given his new transformation.)

Not far-fetched to say hes more popular than Charizard or Mewtwo?....i agree he is a cool poke one of the few new ones because pokes are getting worse and worse..but still...i wouldnt go that far..never....

 

[Spinosaurus]

Not far-fetched to say hes more popular than Charizard or Mewtwo?....i agree he is a cool poke one of the few new ones because pokes are getting worse and worse..but still...i wouldnt go that far..never....

It's no where near far-fetched. Lucario is damn huge. I'm (unfortunately) adapted to the Pokemon fanbase (be it competitive battling one of the best players, modding a big Pokemon forum and playing Pokemon with friends in real life.), so I at least know that much.

Especially in competitive battling. Mewtwo is banned and Charizard is a stinker in NU. Luke has been OU since...ever. And is one of the most used Pokemon. (well, hence, OU.) Also, get this, lots of people hate Lucario for being damn overrated (yeah that's their reason) or for being an annoying diverse ****head in the metagame. Besides, the only people I've seen who adore Charizard are those who started with Gen 1 and stopped there.

Nevermind the fact he's still heavily promoted. If you're looking for popularity, he's got it. Charizard is near-irrelevant (don't you love this word) in comparison now.

 

[woopyfrood]

It's no where near far-fetched.

http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon/1

 

[Spinosaurus]

Anecdotal evidence. Are you really using a top 100 from IGN (that had Atari in its top 10 developers not so long ago?) where 18 of the top 20 are gen 1 and 2 Pokemon as proof?
That top 100 was eaten up by Pokemon fans, for your information.

Give me a RECENT poll from an actual Pokemon site, then I'll reconsider. I have contact with a big Pokemon forum so I'll be able to hold one if you want.

 

[kikaru]

What do you have to be terrified about Kevandre? You can't even see...
I believe the characters you mentioned shouldn't have that much to worry about, especially Olimar.

 

[EddyBearr]

Anecdotal evidence.

That's not anecdotal evidence. That's empirical evidence.

Anecdotal evidence would be like, the 10 pokemon players at my school prefer Lucario to Mewtwo by an 8-to-2 margin.

A large-scale poll by a huge name in the gaming industry is empirical, not anecdotal.

Pokemon fans
an actual Pokemon site

We're not trying to make "Super Smash Pokemon." We're trying to appeal to Smashers, Nintendo-Fans, and general video game fans. Hardcore Pokemon fans are part of our consumer base, but they are not everything, and are dwarfed by "the general gaming populace" by far, which IGN appeals to.

 

[Spinosaurus]

It's a poll? I thought it was just a top 100 thought out by three IGN writers. Heh.

Either way, I wouldn't take it to consideration. Especially when most of the top 100 consists of gen 2 and 1 Pokemon, particularly 1. I don't exactly consider most IGN posters to be a thoughtful bunch, either.

EDIT: Apparently IGN's poll had two random Pokemon pin against each other and voters had to vote for the one they like most as a way to "determine" its popularity. That's BS.

 

[woopyfrood]

I guess Smash tournaments are also BS, then.

On another point, it is not at all surprising that the most popular Pokemon are typically of Gen 1 and 2. Think about who took the poll. I'd bet most of them were children during the rise of the Pokemon franchise. Yet another point to consider is that Generation 1 Pokemon are the most recognizable to non-Pokemon fans.

Anyway, your complaint is ill-founded to begin with. Lucario himself ranks 32 on the list, and this is the exact quote they used for his entry:

"Lucario is probably my favorite new Pokémon from Generation IV. It was actually designed by the same guy who conceived all of the original 151, and it really shows. Lucario is really, really cool, and a complete badass, which is why it’s also one of my mains in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (though Dark Falco will always be my main main). It also doesn’t hurt that he looks like some sort of awesome Egyptian god. – AUDREY"

Lucario is certainly popular, but he's not more popular, which is the point of yours that I am refuting.

 

[Erimir]

I highly doubt that Olimar would be cut unless it was because of the technical limitations of the 3DS. And even then, they might decide to only cut him on the 3DS. They said they haven't made any cuts yet and they PLAN to keep the rosters the same. But if they decide that the 3DS can't do Olimar justice, I think it would be a bad choice to cut him from the Wii U version as well. We'll have to see. They may be able to get the 3DS to work, or come up with a reasonable solution.

Pokemon Trainer I also think is in more danger for more technical reasons - development time. He's simply the work of creating three characters and therefore more work to make and a lot more work to balance (the stamina feature that forces you to switch between them is one way of addressing that). Sakurai might decide that instead of three-in-one, they'd rather put in Mewtwo and another Pokemon, or add other characters.

But like has been said, Sakurai hasn't decided on any cuts yet, at all. These are just potential issues and more based on technical limitations and time constraints than on Sakurai wanting to get rid of them.

I'd still be worried about Lucas or any semi-clone character as well, since if they get to crunch time and Lucas, Toon Link, Falco or Wolf still needs a lot of work, they'll feel a lot less bad about leaving them out. But they always have the option to delay the game if that's an issue (I would be a little surprised if they delayed it into 2015 though... Nintendo needs big name games for 2014).

I'm not worried about ROB.