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"I'm a blue unit now? Holy ****" [OU RMT]

9Kplus1

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A quick note: Mixed Lucario doesn't net any notable advantages over physical. Also, running a Def/SDef- nature while splitting the EVs up hurts Lucario way more than it helps it imo.

and after what was pointed out with torterra, it's better than i thought it was, but it's still ***** by priority
With defenses bulkier than Machamp's? Okay then.

you do realize it OHKO's both heatran and infernape before they can attack it (without taking scar variants into account)
Weavile OHKOes Infernape with what, Aerial Ace? You mean that piss weak attack that sports poor coverage in OU?? Yeah, Infernape gets ***** by Weavile then

But I don't understand why he has Fire Blast instead of Flamethrower.

It seems a 100% accurate move to securely KO Scizor would be better than a 20% of losing your Mixed Dancer to Bullet Punch.
The accuracy hasn't been much of a problem to me, but I'll test it out (then again, I began revamping this team some odd days ago, so I might not get to test any other suggestions for a good while ^_^).
 

mood4food77

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i remember something saying that weavile always comes out on top 1-on-1 against infernape as infernape is just as frail

and torterra has a much worse typing than machamp does, with all those ice and fire attacks running around, machamp has virtually no weaknesses since almost no OU pokes run psychic nor flying attacks
 

9Kplus1

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i remember something saying that weavile always comes out on top 1-on-1 against infernape as infernape is just as frail
Infernape resists both of Weavile's STABs, taking <40% from a CB Ice Punch in fact. The only attack that Infernape can't switch in on is a CB Low Kick and let's be honest, how difficult is it to wall a Pokemon locked into Low Kick?

and torterra has a much worse typing than machamp does, with all those ice and fire attacks running around, machamp has virtually no weaknesses since almost no OU pokes run psychic nor flying attacks
but it's still ***** by priority
The most common priority moves are Bullet Punch and Extremespeed, Torterra isn't ***** by either one due to its bulk ~_~
 

mood4food77

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alright fine, he's not

but he still doesn't have the greatest typing in the world
he should be bulkier than machamp but he's actually not because of his weaknesses
 

9Kplus1

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but he still doesn't have the greatest typing in the world
I disagree. For a RP sweeper, Torterra's typing is excellent; an immunity to Thunder Wave as well as resistances to Stealth Rock and Earthquake are something that Metagross, or any legitimate sweeper for that matter would kill for.

On Tyranitar try Stone Edge and Aqua Tail instead of Fire Blast and Ice Beam.
Did you read the OP, and the last 40 or so posts? Once you do, you'll understand why I'm using the mixed dancer
 

Zankoku

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alright fine, he's not

but he still doesn't have the greatest typing in the world
he should be bulkier than machamp but he's actually not because of his weaknesses
"I CONCEDE EVERY POINT I HAD BEEN ARGUING, BUT I STILL REFUSE TO ADMIT DEFEAT!!"

Seriously man, lol.

Admittedly, a Mixed Agility Lucario running Close Combat, Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse, HP Ice running Naughty (+Atk, -SDef) with no Atk investment would still OHKO max physical defenses Blissey, as well as deal around 20% more damage to Hippowdon with HP Ice, guaranteeing a 2HKO rather than getting walled by Slack Off. Then again, Lucario's in serious trouble around a Hippowdon anyway.
 

mood4food77

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i've tried using torterra in OU play, it just wasn't bulky enough and was constantly switching out due to stuff like gliscor coming in

it has a hard time switching in on pretty much any water type also
 

9Kplus1

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i've tried using torterra in OU play, it just wasn't bulky enough and was constantly switching out due to stuff like gliscor coming in
.-. how did that come into this thread? At any rate, Torterra faces the same problems that Metagross will eventually come across except, oh, Torterra plows through bulky Waters and ScarfTom like it's nothing whereas Metagross loses a decent amount of coverage by running Zen Headbutt + Thunderpunch. There's also the fact that Torterra can beat Hippowdon with little to no trouble...
 

mood4food77

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idk, i just couldn't fit torterra onto my teams and was easily replaced with metagross who did torterra's job so much better
 

9Kplus1

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idk, i just couldn't fit torterra onto my teams and was easily replaced with metagross who did torterra's job so much better
The question is why you're bringing this into my RMT when I've already explained its merits over Metagross twice already =/. Still, it should be fairly obvious that Torterra isn't outclassed by Metagross or even Rhyperior in OU when playing the role of a RP/late game sweeper.
 

mood4food77

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now that i think of it

metagross can run the same exact set with a better defensive typing and more speed, just less stab coverage

but for your team, torterra should be fine as you have good synergy between him and the rest of your team
if he's lackluster though, you know who you can turn to
 

9Kplus1

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now that i think of it

metagross can run the same exact set with a better defensive typing and more speed, just less stab coverage
I'll say this one more time, and then I'll get this thread back on track: Torterra has an Earthquake resistance, immunities to Thunder Wave/Thunderbolt coverage, and better STAB than Metagross. Its disadvantages aside, Torterra has quite a few niches over Metagross to make it a viable choice.

Regarding the team, I'll edit the OP with the updated version as well as a threat list so you people can get off my back ^_^
 

mood4food77

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now that i looked at your team

you're running a SS team that doesn't stall

i'm not sure if the two really go hand in hand

you seem like you're trying to plow through a team as fast as you can but with SS up, you really don't need to

and with doing that, you're trying to do it with slow pokemon
i think this is where your problem lies, it's not that the members are bad, it's more so of your concept with what is going on

for torterra to sweep, it must force a switch as it desperately needs to RP boost to do so

you could actually replace it with gliscor who can run the same set but doesn't solely rely on RP to sweep, while also having a better defensive typing, and gliscor runs taunt which will help with teams that try to stall you

i think a lot of us had the wrong idea and after actually looking at your team, i see where the problem lies

it's not that your members are bad, it's just your trying to run a hyper offensive team with slower pokes

running gliscor over torterra could help with some problems, and he's versatile enough that you can basically run any set you want
 

The Real Gamer

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Basically what M4F is saying is that all of your sweepers require a turn of setup to actually be able to... well... sweep.

Your TTar will need to setup DD to sweep. Your Torterra will need to set up a RP to sweep. Your Luc needs to setup Agility to out-speed faster speed threats such as Gengar, Infernape, Starmie, etc.

Oh and an Infernape with Grass Knot will be able to plow through 5 out of your 6 Pokemon... No setup required.
 

9Kplus1

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you're running a SS team that doesn't stall
Since when does having Tyranitar on a team means that stall has to be present?

you seem like you're trying to plow through a team as fast as you can but with SS up, you really don't need to
Are you telling me that sandstorm prevents stuff like Skarmory and Rotom-H from ****ting on me? And the concept of this team is (er, was) abusing entry hazards through means of U-turn and Roar as well as the use of unorthodox, yet effective movesets.

and with doing that, you're trying to do it with slow pokemon
Hm? Flygon nor Lucario are by no means slow.

for torterra to sweep, it must force a switch as it desperately needs to RP boost to do so
Choice-locked Thunderbolts and Earthquakes(Powers) aren't hard to come across. Torterra, once again, has usable bulk, allowing it to set up on **** like Tyranitar's Crunch, Kingdra's Waterfall, and other unboosted STAB. There's also the fact that Froslass can provide Trick support, giving Torterra pseudo set up fodder.

you could actually replace it with gliscor who can run the same set but doesn't solely rely on RP to sweep, while also having a better defensive typing, and gliscor runs taunt which will help with teams that try to stall you
I didn't want to be a douche, but... oh who the **** am I kidding, I wanted be a **** since I posted this ~_~

You don't suggest to replace the base, or the core for that matter of any person's team. Not only will that cause a ****load of arguments, but it causes the OP to make a ****load of changes which only produces an even larger ****storm. Also, if someone says that they've tested and used a set with success, don't ****ing disclose it so easily.
it's not that your members are bad, it's just your trying to run a hyper offensive team with slower pokes
Let me explain what hyper offense is, because apparently you don't know what the **** you're talking about. HO utilizes the raw power and lack of extremely exploitable holes (i.e weakness to Taunt, low Speed) in the [common] sweepers in OU. That being said each Pokemon is usually predictable in terms of the set that it's running and are generally easy to check, meaning that HO teams are usually played with a lot more intelligence. This team is not hyper offense in any way, rather it's more of a bulky offense - in case you were unclear, BO is running uncommon sets such as Superachi and DDRoostMence (he's banned, but you should get the point) in order to get the jump on the average team - team than anything.

Basically what M4F is saying is that all of your sweepers require a turn of setup to actually be able to... well... sweep.
Two Pokemon on this team are meant to sweep while the other - and for the last time read the OP before posting - lures in and picks off those said Pokemon's checks. Moreover, Lucario and Torterra care just fire off their STAB attacks and dent something on the switch in.
Oh and an Infernape with Grass Knot will be able to plow through 5 out of your 6 Pokemon... No setup required.
Infernape dents just about every team that doesn't carry Tentacruel (and don't give me that Vaporeon bull**** since physically based variants (which are the most common among, erm, decent players) 2HKO with Close Combat). I usually scrap just whatever's in and revenge it.
 

mood4food77

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gliscor actually handles both infernape and heatran quite well, especially RP sets, and with sand viel, it becomes such a pain to deal with (20% chance to evade attacks), while no, he doesn't directly counter them, he keeps them in check and if you run RP and earthquake, they are not switching in, which also allows you to run a bulkier set than you are with torterra

he also deals with machamp a lot better than torterra does since he can actually run aerial ace

gliscor does everything torterra does (everything) with a better typing

torterra cannot just fire off it's stab attacks, it's stab is walled by skarmory, bronzong, zapdos, etc., while gliscor maybe too, he at least learns taunt, stopping them from doing much of what they try to accomplish

i also will suggest replacing flygon with jolteon, flygon really seems like a waste of space here and jolteon does a really good job at taking care of bulky waters, especially when running HP grass

oh, and if you look at your team, you have 5 pokemon immune to the effects of SS, meaning your trying to abuse SS but you're going hyper offensive
if you only had ttar and lucario, it wouldn't be a SS team, you lack staying power, which is what makes SS teams so good, it's usually bulky offense but you're not running the said bulky offense

oh and a mixed ddtar doesn't really lure out much, you'll get a surprise kill but it's easily dealt with, especially when infernape and heatran actually can switch in a **** it (they resist all the moves your ttar has which right now, is a real problem)
 

9Kplus1

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gliscor actually handles both infernape and heatran quite well, especially RP sets, and with sand viel, it becomes such a pain to deal with (20% chance to evade attacks), while no, he doesn't directly counter them, he keeps them in check and if you run RP and earthquake, they are not switching in, which also allows you to run a bulkier set than you are with torterra
What the hell are you talking about? Torterra outspeeds both Pokemon after a boost and neither Pokemon can switch in safely. At least Torterra can beat ScarfTom >_>

he also deals with machamp a lot better than torterra does since he can actually run aerial ace
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

gliscor does everything torterra does (everything) with a better typing
So I'd be trading Attack, a resistance to Stealth Rock, and much better STAB for... wait, where's this going, because it sounds like a ****ty choice already.

torterra cannot just fire off it's stab attacks, it's stab is walled by skarmory, bronzong, zapdos, etc., while gliscor maybe too, he at least learns taunt, stopping them from doing much of what they try to accomplish
There's a mystical thing called partners you know.

i also will suggest replacing flygon with jolteon, flygon really seems like a waste of space here and jolteon does a really good job at taking care of bulky waters, especially when running HP grass
Flygon is more of utility than a sweeper with the ability to switch in on and KO Tyranitar, Gyarados, and Jirachi if needed. How the **** is Jolteon going to help this team out when entry hazards and Torterra cripple bulky Waters?

oh, and if you look at your team, you have 5 pokemon immune to the effects of SS, meaning your trying to abuse SS but you're going hyper offensive
Didn't I just explain HO to you? And that doesn't mean that I'm trying to abuse sandstorm, it only means that Tyranitar met my needs.

oh and a mixed ddtar doesn't really lure out much, you'll get a surprise kill but it's easily dealt with, especially when infernape and heatran actually can switch in a **** it (they resist all the moves your ttar has which right now, is a real problem)
Neither Pokemon have no business switching in on Tyranitar unless they know its full set and by that time, it would've accomplished its task meaning that I can just scrap it .-.

if you only had ttar and lucario, it wouldn't be a SS team, you lack staying power, which is what makes SS teams so good, it's usually bulky offense but you're not running the said bulky offense
Please explain how this isn't even remotely BO.

I say we decide this with a battle, 9k+1 vs everyone who's criticisms he doesn't take well.
Can I bring waffles to this fight? I'm assuming yes...
 

mood4food77

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gliscor runs aerial ace for the sole purpose of dealing the most damage to fighting types

it's a base 90 attack that doesn't miss

and it deals a lot less damage than i thought it would, i thought it would deal 60% to machamp but it doesn't even deal 50%

but he does deal with machamp better than the rest of your team does and offers a lot of variability

one last thing, using jolteon over flygon gives you a revenge killer that deals with bulky waters
 

The Real Gamer

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Infernape dents just about every team that doesn't carry Tentacruel (and don't give me that Vaporeon bull**** since physically based variants (which are the most common among, erm, decent players) 2HKO with Close Combat). I usually scrap just whatever's in and revenge it.
Wow you really don't take criticism well.

And revenge it with what?? The only Pokemon on your team that could do that is your Flygon with its predictable Earthquake or your Froslass's weak Ice Beam or silly Trick!

Once your Flygon is gone, any team with an Infernape holding grass knot will UNDOUBTEDLY WIN.

EDIT: That's not a good weakness to have against such a popular sweeper.
 

ss118

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Flygon is never gone lol. It's little *****-*** is always U-Turning or killing you with EQ early-game, using it's SR resistance and high-speed to keep itself healthy while coming in late-game to sweep with Outrage. The last moveslot is for problematic pokemon(in which case, this team has no truly good answer to Gyarados so instead his has ThunderPunch).

I've played this team for a little bit and the only problematic pokemon have been those that truly abuse their water typing. Gyarados is a problem and you mentioned that, and have gone to such lengths as to include ThunderPunch on your Flygon. Suicune seems MUCH harder for your team to play around, especially 3-attack+CM versions. It can guarantee a kill and a half unless you hit it hard with Outrage on the revenge after having something like Lucario damage it a bit. I really don't have any suggestions because I think this team is great by itself, and I'm sure through smart playing you can overcome most(if not all) pokemon.

Stall teams seem like a small issue because you have no way to remove residual damage, nor to keep yours on the field. You have froslass, but if they get up SR that works for a limited time only. Toxic Spikes will greatly hinder your Torterra, Tyranitar, and Swampert(probably the biggest things helping you against them as well).

The tyranitar set seems strange: can you go more into detail as to how you play with it? Do you bring it out early-game or late-game? Do you attack first to scout or DD asap? Is it a wall breaker or just a general sweeper?

It would also like to see how your froslass matches up against the top 10 leads, because I'm not sure if you aim to stop SR or just cripple the opposing lead.

Edit: LO Shaymin keeps switching into Swampert. Halp ._.

Edit2: the only suggestion I can make at this point is maybe Destiny Bond over Ice Beam on Froslass: at least then you can stop Forretress. Come in on RS, Taunt, and kill yourselves. That's not even that reliable, but I've yet to use Ice Beam with Froslass so it won't be THAT much of a loss I think.
 

The Real Gamer

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Well here's my suggestion if you're having problems with DD Gyra, CM Suicune, and Stall teams in general.

Sack your Froslass, put Pert in the lead position, and replace Lass with a Choice Scarf Rotom H.

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Levitate / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 SpD
~Shadow Ball
~Thunderbolt
~Overheat
~Trick

-Keep your lovely Spikes resistance
-Now have an answer for DD Gyra and Suicune
-Can definitely mess with stall teams thanks to Trick
-Another revenge killer which will alleviate some pressure from your Flygon

I'm not sure how valuable of a lead your Frosslass is, but I personally think it's a nice tradeoff.

EDIT: Oh and it can take on LO Shaymin! :D
 

ss118

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Froslass is NECESSARY for this team. Trick really helps with setting up Lucario/ Torterra/ Tyranitar, and spikes easily pave the way for victory. If 9001 did try that and use pert as a lead, his overall momentum would be completely screwed up. In the end it's up to him, but I think I understand his mentality with this team a lot better after playing with it some.

One the other hand, I would suggest you try that Rotom-h set the TRG posted over Torterra for a small bit. Torterra hasn't been doing all that great in my experience, but again I may potentially be using the team wrong.

Edit again(blarg): I had a suggestion as I opened up the computer and lost it just as I opened it. Weird, huh?

Edit: I remembered! Try Stone Edge over Crunch on Tyranitar. You hit Infernape/ Heatran much harder: not the biggest problem, but it helps because your team has "issues" with them.
 

Firus

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9kplus1, you need to try to be more receptive of people's suggestions. Even if you think they're incorrect, laughing at them or getting angry isn't the way to go.

Remember, this is for people to rate your team, not solely to show your team. If you don't want to change your team, then don't post it.
 
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