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Ike: Special Moves

Fawriel

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That's probably just a cosmetic difference, though... it has range ( although it probably extends forward instead of immediately appearing at full size ) and it can be charged up for power, so the function will probably be the same.

In that sense, Final Cutter and Aether are not similar, either, because Final Cutter meteors and shoots out a projectile in the end.
 

Empy

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The real reason why he's immune to flinching at the start is because it'd be too complicated if Ike was hit and didn't catch his sword. Then they'd then have to program Ike without his sword. Just to clarify with people early on this thread, the immunity frames are only until he's holding the sword again. Since they did this with Ike, they'll have to do this with other powerhouses even though they won't run into such complications for the sake of balance.
I don't think that's the reason at all. They probably put in the Aether move because it was already possible, they would never, ever change the entire feel of all heavy characters because of one newcomers up-B. Also, this:

The biggest and the heaviest of fighters, Bowser has a slightly different flavor this time around!
Was said with Bowser. It probably means Bowser will have a lot of moves where he get's very few knockback or doesn't flinch, meaning he is more of a standing powerhouse then a sitting duck.
 

Hong

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I don't think that's the reason at all. They probably put in the Aether move because it was already possible, they would never, ever change the entire feel of all heavy characters because of one newcomers up-B. Also, this:


Was said with Bowser. It probably means Bowser will have a lot of moves where he get's very few knockback or doesn't flinch, meaning he is more of a standing powerhouse then a sitting duck.
My post made it sound like Ike's immunity model was the base for all of the other heavy weight changes. I just meant it was one of the many cases that will utilize changes to select characters. I said the reason they implemented it is so he can catch the sword, when I should have said what I meant specifically. I'm sure they could have just instead made so he holds the sword the whole way through, but that wouldn't be very Aether-like. D:
My error.

Another interesting note about the ability itself is pretty anti-meteor smash/footstool jump since throwing the sword upwards towards an edge guarder really kills many possibilities. Yeah, that's obvious. But there are too many people comparing it to Final Cutter. To make up for flexible recovery, not only will heavy weights get this new flinch immunity, but also perhaps an easier time getting back.
 

Crooked Crow

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Ikes Eruption move is way more cooler than Marth and Roy's neutral B. Somewhat like DK's ground slap move, but it hits in front of you and can be charged. Looks like a nice vertical KO move.

His Aether move is also cool. I think he's only invulnerable at the beginning of the move, the part where he throws his sword up to catch it, so there's no glitch or anything if he doesn't get his sword back. It's great that as he slices down, he spins.
But it really does basically sound like a much better modified version of Kirby's Up-B.

How heavy would Ike be? Like in between Link and DK or something?
 

drewdizzal

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i was looking at the Aether move in a video and after he does slash-down in the air, he does an up slash afterward. i wonder if he does that in brawl also?
 

Gargomon251

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Sakurai said:
He’s not flinching?!

He’s not really invincible – he still takes damage. But he won’t flinch in the slightest.

This time, there are several moves like this among the heavy characters, so watch out!
He never directly said Ike was a heavyweight, just that heavyweights have moves LIKE this. It remains to be seen exactly where his fall/run/knockback stands.
 

ssx3master1

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For everyone who is confusing Roy's B-move with Ike's, they aren't alike at all.



As you can tell from his knee touching the ground, his head, and the position of the SWORD, he is stabbing the sword into the ground like Link's Dair, and the flames are shooting up from the ground, hurting Samus and Bowser.

If anything, this move is similar to DK's Ground Slap.
Looks kinda like Sol Badguy's Gunflame move from Guilty Gear, except a little less badass.
 

NukeA6

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Well since Ike's moves are different, it's safe to say that Marth will be joining in. I guess Ike will have the tipper and Marth's sword will behave like Roy's.

And heavy characters are gonna have resistance? Bowser is so gonna be good. :D
 

TaurToph

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For me it's so obvious that Ike isn't the marth/roy replacer (but a new character addition), as it's that there will be another FE character coming to replace em.
 

-Foggy-

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When I first looked at the Eruption pic I didn't think of Marth and Roy's B move at all. They're completely different, but you DO need to look a little more closely to realize it.

Eruption looks like a projectile move that transforms Ike's blade into a mass of fire shooting forward at the enemy. As problem2 said, Ike is in a kneeling position when doing the attack, not a standing like Marth or Roy when they do THEIR B move. But the real importance is Ike's sword. If you look more closely, you can see that the only thing left of Ike's sword is a handle. Now look at the flames. If you look more closely at THEM, you can see they are kind of in the shape of a downwards slope starting from Ike. It's not like Roy's B Move that creates a mass of flames all around him, this attack's flames have a general shape, and look like they shoot forward because of it. Having this attack be like Roy's B Move and having that downward slope shape when he lets out a fully charged attack would just look ridiculous, so I'm pretty sure that it's a projectile. Charging up the move will increase the length of the attack and do more damage. Since Ike is a heavy fighter though, the move will probably leave him vulnerable to attack while he does it.
 

Takeshi245

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What I think about Aether is that it looks pretty beast. Guys, notice how it says that he's immune to attacks. Does that mean he isn't immune to grabs, also? Eruption looks like a powerful B move to use, but it'll probably be slow, so one of the ways to get around that move is rolling behind him to punish him for it. Furthermore, Ike probably going to sweet having him as one of my mains. :grin:
 

zKillah

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I think the point is nothing can happen to Ike while the sword is not in his hands. Rather than deal with creating an unarmed version of Ike in the case that Aether is interrupted by an attack, the developers allow him to absorb any attack without knockback. I also doubt he can be grabbed until he catches the sword.

As for Final Cutter similarities: http://youtube.com/watch?v=V4CsnIdq2U8 at 1:06
Yes, it's very similar, but it's practically ripped from Path of Radiance - they would be fools not to use it.

And eruption - it looks to me like he may charge by holding Ragnell above his head, and finish by plunging it into the ground.
 

Bowserlick

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Some people are claiming that Ike is a heavy fighter, but it does not say that on the website. It simply states that heavyweight characters have flinch resistant moves.

Ike needs to be flinch resistant because he tosses his weapon into the air. If he wasn't, then he would have to fight without his sword.

Also I think the special moves show that sword characters are going to be similar. So if there is another FE representative I reckon it would be an axe weilder, spear user, or a magic user.
 

Fawriel

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Wait, wait. Doesn't the update state pretty clearly that Ike's still invulnerable during the last part of the attack, not just while he's separated from the sword? Doesn't seem to me like it's only like that to protect him from swordlessness.
EDIT: Also, it's probably not directly confirmed that Ike's a heavy-weight, but... why would they go off on a tangent about heavy characters' recoveries if he's not one of them?

What I wonder about is Eruption. He uses it by sticking his sword into the ground. So how will it be used in the air, if that's even possible..?
 

Takeshi245

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I think the point is nothing can happen to Ike while the sword is not in his hands. Rather than deal with creating an unarmed version of Ike in the case that Aether is interrupted by an attack, the developers allow him to absorb any attack without knockback. I also doubt he can be grabbed until he catches the sword.

As for Final Cutter similarities: http://youtube.com/watch?v=V4CsnIdq2U8 at 1:06
Yes, it's very similar, but it's practically ripped from Path of Radiance - they would be fools not to use it.

And eruption - it looks to me like he may charge by holding Ragnell above his head, and finish by plunging it into the ground.
I was thinking about him not getting grabbed because he doesn't have his sword, also. So in other words, just damage him a bit and when he gets his sword back, just go wild on him. :grin:

Edit: Fawriel, it says that right after he throws his sword, he's invincible. That picture you're looking at is when he's going to chase after his sword. At the last part of the attack, just go wild on him.
 

mood4food77

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ike looks heavy

probably around the same weight as link and falcon

and his sword looks like no sweetspot either

but he does look slow, it does say that he can weild a 2 handed sword in one hand, meaning it's big, so he might be slow, unlike marth and roy who were fairly fast

he'll have some quick move no doubt (like ganon and bowser did) but he doesn't look anywhere near broken...unlike pit and metaknight
 

Fawriel

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...wow, I really can't read today. I saw the picture and thought it was the final part of the attack.
*apologizes and goes in the corner*
 

petre

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Hiya eh! Kirby Anyone?

Edit: Could be this... the beginning of the clone moves?
youre ALMOST the first person to say this.

the counter argument is that even though they may look alike, theres really no proof that they are the exact same. look at samus' and sheik's uair. if you dont hit anyone with them, they look pretty similar. same goes with tons of other moves in melee.

its not the beginning of 'clone' anything. all that started in ssb64 with luigi.
 

Zindura

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We have to keep in mind that we haven't seen the air version of Aether yet. It may have different properties and reach.

I wonder how much horizontal reach the Up+B will have. Ike might end up having really limited recovery options.
 

Kirye

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Well since Ike's moves are different, it's safe to say that Marth will be joining in. I guess Ike will have the tipper and Marth's sword will behave like Roy's.

And heavy characters are gonna have resistance? Bowser is so gonna be good. :D
Or Ike's sword will behave like Roys, and Marth's stick to tipper.

Anyway, I can still hopefully assume Ike's just Roys replacement. D:
 

Psydon

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A detailed analysis of today's update

Which, if you don't know, is Ike's special moves. Two of them, anyway.

Alright, I was wrong about Aether (I thought it would be Ike's version of Flare Blade, but with blue energy). But this is certainly a good representation of it. The move is exactly like Kirby's Final Cutter in terms of execution, and it'll probably have similar properties as well. It seems, though that if you hit the opponent with the first hit the second and third are impossible to escape, not counting DI.

I think if you L-cancel Aether (assuming that in Brawl you'll be able to) you'll probably retain the "invincibility" for its regular duration; I'm sure Ike players will find some way to abuse that. You'll certainly need to L-cancel it, as it looks like there's a bit of delay after Ike finishes the attack proper.

This may be a typo on Sakurai's part, about the "after throwing his sword" bit. The screenshot shows that he's "invincible" after the actual attack...maybe he's immune to flinching throughout the whole thing? That'd be pretty slick, having an unstoppable Up+B attack.

I think the best recovery strategy for Ike players will be to approach the stage from a low, close point, because it doesn't seem like Aether gives that great of a horizontal distance. Or, who knows; maybe it's got a Horizontal form like Roy's Blazer. Since he flips while swinging the sword at the apex of the attack, you might have a good, and unexpected, anti-edgeguarding attack if you sweetspot the ledge (he flips and slashes, and then grabs the ledge).

It's clear to me now that the earlier "single-stroke finishing blow" line had nothing to do with Aether. He was probably talking about Eruption, or just Ike in general, because it's clear he'll have a lot of power.

And speaking of Eruption, that looks like a better Flare Blade to me, because it creates a field of flame in front of Ike that can continuously damage and send the opponent up, probably much in the manner of PK Fire. That could be really good for edgeguarding...I wonder what would happen if he plunged his sword over the edge...

I wanna make something clear right now to all the fanboys screaming for Marth to come back (fortunately there are less here than on other sites). Just because Sakurai said that the heavy characters will get the same "invincible" state after their Up+B moves, doesn't mean Ike is a traditional heavy character. He could be fast, powerful and heavy, like Falco, or he could just be average-speed and powerful but not floaty. Got that? Ike is not necessarily a heavy character, Ike is not the new Roy, Marth still isn't confirmed in any way, and until we hear otherwise that's not going to change. Accept it.

(I have no shame in admitting it: I don't want Marth to return. But that doesn't make what I'm saying any less true)

I still hold to my idea that Ike will be a combination, in terms of character and attack properties, of Marth and Roy. He'll obviously have a totally different moveset (I still think his Side Smash and nair will be identical to theirs), but he'll possess a balanced form of the best of both of their attriibutes, with the exception of power.
 

ecstatic

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I agree with you on most of your post, including that Marth bit. :p
I don't think eruption will be like flare blade, though. More like wall of fire, that'll probably stay out for as long as you hold special. Unfortunately, if he's going to be stabbing his blade into the ground like that, he's going to have a crapload of lag.
 

Takeshi245

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It doesn't say anywhere that you can L-cancel B moves. Besides, you couldn't reduce the lag of B moves in the previous games, anyways. That's why they're adding invulnerable when it comes to knockback on certain attacks that heavier characters do because their attacks are slow.
 

Psydon

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I think we need to stop focusing on the L-cancellation of B moves. I was simply theorizing that if you can in Brawl, Ike players may abuse the persistent unflinching state.
 

Takeshi245

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The whole Ike is invincible after he throws his sword is when he going to chase after it to slam it down. He isn't invincible when he does his last part of his attack. I used to think that too until I looked at that picture with Samus F-tilting Ike to realize he doesn't have his blade, meaning it was in the air. Go ahead and take a look for yourself.
 

Psydon

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O_o Well, I'll be ****ed.

Alright, so he's only invincible at the start...and it's the beginning that seems to have the lag. Well, so much for the L-cancel theory. :psycho:
 

shanus

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youre ALMOST the first person to say this.

the counter argument is that even though they may look alike, theres really no proof that they are the exact same. look at samus' and sheik's uair. if you dont hit anyone with them, they look pretty similar. same goes with tons of other moves in melee.

its not the beginning of 'clone' anything. all that started in ssb64 with luigi.
it might even have similar behaivor, but i wouldnt jump the boat saying "OMG clone moves in Brawl" when the fact of the matter is that this is a character specific move from his original game series. Realize that Sakurai is focusing strongly on making these characters use their attributes from their releases, its just coincidence its similar to Kirby's.
 

Zindura

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it might even have similar behaivor, but i wouldnt jump the boat saying "OMG clone moves in Brawl" when the fact of the matter is that this is a character specific move from his original game series. Realize that Sakurai is focusing strongly on making these characters use their attributes from their releases, its just coincidence its similar to Kirby's.
By this logic, it'd be interesting if one hit of Aether heals damage, and the other goes through shields (a metaphor for "defense" in SSBB). Purely speculation.

We also have yet to see if there might be a follow-up ground slash for Ike's Aether in SSBB. Chances are, probably not, because it's not very conducive to recovery.
 

cccck

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I would like to note, this means Giga Bowser really can't get hurt, he is really invincible, while Ike is just unflinching, he can still get hurt a ton and I don't think you could stop half way threw that move, lest Ike fight with out his sword. and I think he is heavy, they would not compare him to other heavy people where he not
 

shanus

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By this logic, it'd be interesting if one hit of Aether heals damage, and the other goes through shields (a metaphor for "defense" in SSBB). Purely speculation.

We also have yet to see if there might be a follow-up ground slash for Ike's Aether in SSBB. Chances are, probably not, because it's not very conducive to recovery.
that would be pretty cool tbh, prolly not that level of complication to the move, but it would be neat if implemented properly
 

Psydon

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:urg:
I would like to note, this means Giga Bowser really can't get hurt, he is really invincible, while Ike is just unflinching, he can still get hurt a ton and I don't think you could stop half way threw that move, lest Ike fight with out his sword. and I think he is heavy, they would not compare him to other heavy people where he not
You probably can't stop, but I also don't think he'd be hurt that much during Aether. The lag is probably noticable, but still only quite temporary.
 

Y34HDUD3!!!

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KK. Great moves, but I have a question about aether:

If Ike does Aether while airborn, how will he catch the sword if he throws it vertically? I mean, how would he catch it? Will there be another starting animation for when you do it while airborn, or will he just stop in midair and throw the sword?
 
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